Bo Ryan

[No Chores]

Some have suggested that Bo Ryan is among the best coaches in the country. I would agree. He was certainly the better of the two coaches in the Kentucky game. His kids are also fun and classy. Kentucky's are not. Andrew Harrison is a mindless joke, and many of the Kentucky kids not even shaking hands with the Badgers is a sad commentary. Ryan has done it without any "one-and-dones", ever. So has Izzo. Calipari and Mike K., not so much.

 

[DocCatsFan]

Originally posted by No Chores:
Some have suggested that Bo Ryan is among the best coaches in the country. I would agree. He was certainly the better of the two coaches in the Kentucky game. His kids are also fun and classy. Kentucky's are not. Andrew Harrison is a mindless joke, and many of the Kentucky kids not even shaking hands with the Badgers is a sad commentary. Ryan has done it without any "one-and-dones", ever. So has Izzo. Calipari and Mike K., not so much.

+1. It is a pleasure to watch Bo Ryan coach, his kids play, and all of them represent themselves and WI with such class. The good guys won last night. I can't imagine a Bo Ryan team acting the way many of the KY kids did after the game. It would never happen, and if it did, I shutter to think what the consequences would be. Of course, Calipari couldn't care less and neither do the kids because the moment that game was over they were no longer at the University of Kentucky.

 

[hdhntr1]

Great coach and I heard someplace that someone said not a single point was scored by a Frosh this year. Seems impossible in this day and age. That said, for as much of a potentially pro team as they are (KY) the do seem to be a basically pretty good group of guys. Their coach did them in as he was seriously out coached.

 

[Styre]

I like the swipe at Krzyzewski at the end. Let's play a game -- can you name a single "one-and-done" on any of his four national championship teams? (That's four more than Bo Ryan, incidentally)

 

[Palindrome]

Many Badgers fans are worried the Kentucky game might have been TOO big a deal and that there could be an emotional fall off on Monday night. Playing just a "good game" vs Duke but losing would be disappointing but somehow understandable in the circumstances

As for Saturday night, I felt good about UW's chances after they bounced back after the first minute. My fear had been that they'd have too much emotion starting out, make some silly plays and be tight (featuring poor shooting) for a while, ending up on their heels after a few minutes and having to claw back into the game.

But NO. After going down 0-5, the Badgers went on a 23-9 run. That established that they had what it takes (1) to avoid being slapped down and stuffed into a deep hole, and (2) to pull off their own big time run against KY after the Badgers hit their stide. My theory going in was that if WI was close --- within 5 or 6 --- at the half they would have a decent shot at it because I thought Ryan's superior in-game coaching would be make at least that much of a difference over the final 20 minutes. Then, to be tied at halftime, I was even a bit more confident.

Two other observations:
(1) We can't be like Kentucky re: attracting the raw talent who drop by for a year or two. Nor would I want us to be.
(2) We CAN become like Wisconsin if Coach Collins and his staff evolve together, getting good (not even knock-your-socks-off great) talent and stick together for years while creating a strong brand identity and a culture befitting winners.

The notion that NU only needs a couple of superheroes to carry the team (as I was prone to thinking) is flawed. One of them would surely be injured in any given year, like Jackson was for the Badgers. What matters more is that we have a cast of 8-9 every year ("continuity" is golden) who can hold their own against anyone on some days and not lose badly more than a couple of times each season. From THAT group might arise a Frank Kaminsky and/or Sam Dekker to become the superstar as they get better and better. If and when that happens ..... we dance and hopefully survive a couple of rounds.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Originally posted by DocCatsFan:

Originally posted by No Chores:
Some have suggested that Bo Ryan is among the best coaches in the country. I would agree. He was certainly the better of the two coaches in the Kentucky game. His kids are also fun and classy. Kentucky's are not. Andrew Harrison is a mindless joke, and many of the Kentucky kids not even shaking hands with the Badgers is a sad commentary. Ryan has done it without any "one-and-dones", ever. So has Izzo. Calipari and Mike K., not so much.

+1. It is a pleasure to watch Bo Ryan coach, his kids play, and all of them represent themselves and WI with such class. The good guys won last night. I can't imagine a Bo Ryan team acting the way many of the KY kids did after the game. It would never happen, and if it did, I shutter to think what the consequences would be. Of course, Calipari couldn't care less and neither do the kids because the moment that game was over they were no longer at the University of Kentucky.

Absolutely. Hats off to the Badgers and Bo Ryan. That program represents the Big Ten in all the right ways. As other posters have noted, it's one we'd do well to emulate.

 

[olshin]

Bo won 4 national titles at D3. Maybe doesn't count in your mind, but I think that speaks plenty about his ability as a game coach, away from the flash and substance of the D1 lights.

 

[No Chores]

Styre,

No and I don't care to research it, but you are missing the point. Duke has had a number of "one- and-dones" in recent years,including, potentially, one this year. But the point I am making is that Duke is able to successfully recruit many of the top players in the nation, just like Kentucky, and sometimes North Carolina. Wisconsin has not had that luxury. Isn't it interesting that the schools that are able to consistently attract the 4-5 star players are often the best teams in the country. Yes Mike K is a very good coach, but it sure helps that he's had all of that top-flight talent to work with.

 

[Styre]

Bo Ryan is an excellent game coach -- probably the best in the Big Ten -- and I have never said otherwise. He is not, however, on the short list for greatest coach of all time.

 

[Styre]

...you do realize that the reason Duke is able to attract all that top-flight talent is because Krzyzewski himself built them up to that point, right? It's a little weird to condemn a coach for enjoying a luxury that he created. I mean, what if these Final Four runs allow Bo Ryan to start recruiting that kind of talent? Would his accomplishments then be diminished?

(Also, Krzyzewski has never won a national title with a one-and-done player on the roster. In fact, not one single player of any age left Duke early until his 19th season as head coach.)

 

[willycat]

Styre but he is a much better "in game" coach then that foul mouthed guy at Duke. Let's not also forget that the coach K has been allowed to recruit and play some very questionable academic players in recent years.

 

[No Chores]

Styre,

We'll, that could change tonight if Duke wins, but you're still missing the point. I'm not condemning anybody and would agree that Coach K is an excellent coach. I'm simply saying that for many years now Duke has been able to recruit superior talent, yet they don't always go very far in the tournament with it. (See the last 2 years, for example.) The larger point is that schools like Duke and Kentucky annually recruit great talent, and, therefore, win a lot of games. This shouldn't come as a great shock to anyone. I'm much more impressed by guys like Bo Ryan who doesn't get the same level of talent, but takes what he has and consistently molds them into very good teams. He has been successful at every level for many many years.

 

[realcatfan]

Originally posted by No Chores:
Styre,

I'm simply saying that for many years now Duke has been able to recruit superior talent, yet they don't always go very far in the tournament with it. (See the last 2 years, for example.)

2 years ago, Duke went to the Elite 8 and lost to Louisville. 2011-12 ended with a loss to Lehigh in a 2 vs 15 match up. Last year was a loss to Mercer with a 3 vs 14 match up.

I think what happens is teams like Duke and Kentucky can win lots of games by being athletically superior; however when you reach the tourney, older teams that figured out how to negate that advantage.

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

You mean like the older Michigan State against the athletic Duke? Are there two more successful programs in the NCAA in the recent past than Kentucky and Duke and their ahtletically superior teams? This notion that the evil one-and-done programs are always over-matched by the x's and o's savy, well-coached, senior-laden team is so over-blown. A significant part of a coaches job is to recruit his roster (he's the GM and the coach), discounting that part of the job does not make any sense.

 

[hdhntr1]

It was not till his 11th year as head of DUKE that he won his first National Championship. Bo is in year 14 and though it is potentially a little later in the run, Duke was in the NCG just a year or two before coach K got there under Bill Foster. Just saying that the coaches are comparable but Ryan started there later in his career.

 

[TypeO]

Originally posted by No Chores:
Styre,

No and I don't care to research it, but you are missing the point. Duke has had a number of "one- and-dones" in recent years,including, potentially, one this year. But the point I am making is that Duke is able to successfully recruit many of the top players in the nation, just like Kentucky, and sometimes North Carolina. Wisconsin has not had that luxury. Isn't it interesting that the schools that are able to consistently attract the 4-5 star players are often the best teams in the country. Yes Mike K is a very good coach, but it sure helps that he's had all of that top-flight talent to work with.

To your point, Duke had nine, NINE Mickey-D's all-Americans on their roster last night. Wisconsin? ZERO. Don't tell me that Duke's excess of talent doesn't matter. He had the same advantage in the early 90's, 1999 (lost) and 2001, it was just that few kids left early back then from any program. It was either direct to the NBA if you didn't have the grades or spend 2-3 years minimum in college. The only time K out-coached his talent was in 2010, and they were still a 1-seed. Add to that their path was cleared with all the other #1's going down in regionals, so they did not have to play anyone higher than WVU at #2. The only great coaching moves he made last night were putting in Allen out of desperation and obviously working the refs hard at half "we are in foul-trouble, they aren't" to get every call his way in the second half. Despite this, if Dekker's outside shot hadn't left him, Wis wins by 10. Oh, and K may well lose three of his starting freshmen (Okafor, Winslow and Jones) who accounted for 44/68 points.

 

[Styre]

Who has argued that "Duke's excess of talent doesn't matter?"

Again -- Coach K created that advantage for himself and then used it. If Bo Ryan wants more McDonald's All-Americans on his roster, he can go out and recruit them. Otherwise he'll just have to struggle on, coaching up his roster of scrubs that includes a mere two potential NBA lottery picks.

 

[No Chores]

Styre,

You're getting tiresome because you miss the point so consistently. Duke has nothing but 5 stars coming in for 2015. Teams with that kind of talent win no matter who the coach happens to be. See Kentucky, for example, who's coach this year never has been very good. We get your point - recruiting is part of the equation. Recruiting at Duke and Kentucky has been a piece of cake for ages, and it certainly didn't originate with Coach K and Calipari.

 

[Styre]

My point is that you're refusing to give K or Calipari or anyone else any credit for their achievements. Coach K wins 5 national titles and more games than anyone else ever? Nothing to do with him, it's all because of great recruiting. Well, didn't he recruit those players himself? Still nothing to do with him, because it's always been easy to recruit at Duke, even 35 years ago before he started. John Calipari takes a UMass team with exactly one future NBA player to a #1 ranking and the Final Four? Brings the dribble-drive motion offense to national prominence at Memphis? Well obviously that guy can't coach.

Meanwhile, Bo Ryan doesn't make it to the Final Four until he has two potential lottery picks in his starting five, but somehow he's doing it all on coaching brilliance and not relying on his talent.

I think Bo Ryan is an excellent coach. I just happen to think K and Calipari are better. Maybe Ryan is "better" than them at the Xs-and-Os, but by itself that doesn't mean anything.

 

[No Chores]

Styre,

I am not now,and never have been, refusing to give anybody credit for their achievements. As I've said many times in this thread, I believe Mike K is a very good coach. Calipari, not so much. It would take more time than I have to expend to chronicle Calipari's recruiting violations at various universities. He's a jerk and and poor game coach, and always has been. Duke, with Art Heyman, beat Wilt and Kansas in the national championship game long before anybody heard of coach K. Others, like Bill Foster won a national championship at Duke. It's easy to recruit at Duke and Kentucky when you have that kind of history and tradition. Ever hear of Adolph Rupp? With the kind of teams that KY. and Duke had this year YOU could have lead each of them to 30 plus victories! How do you think Chris Collins would do with all 5-star players? Give me a break.

 

[Styre]

If it would take more time than you have to chronicle all of Calipari's recruiting violations, could you maybe just chronicle two of them? I'm curious, because he's only been associated with one recruiting violation, ever: Derrick Rose's SAT.

As for the Duke stuff, you're completely wrong about all of it. Art Heyman only made the tournament once at Duke, they lost in the Final Four that season, and they never played Kansas. Bill Foster never won a national championship. In fact, nobody before Coach K did.

It's true that Duke made it to four Final Fours before Coach K took over. So did Kansas State. In fact, so did Cincinnati and Oklahoma State, and both of those schools actually won two national titles. So why didn't those schools become national powers like Duke?
This post was edited on 4/7 10:15 PM by Styre

 

[beamrider]

I admire the coaches named here and would not belittle any of them or their coaching ability. Having said that, I agree with Styre and feel his comments are right on.

For a terrific insight into Coach K's coaching technique and mindset (also Rick Pitino's), see the book "The Last Great Game" by Gene Wojciechowski. I read it in two sittings; basically couldn't put it down.

 

[NJCat83588]

Ditto. Much as I hate the whole Duke mystique and Dick Vitale fawning over the Cameron Crazies, you gotta give Krzyzewski credit for what he has accomplished. I remember living in Charlotte, NC when he was hired, and no one thought the Yankee from Chicago would last. His first 3 season were brutal, even tough he made the NIT in year 1.

Another book with insight into his leadership beliefs: "Leading with the Heart". It is also an easy read, and gives leadership insights that are very applicable to the business world. I hate Duke, but take my hat off to what Krzyzewski has accomplished. He is one of the all-time greatest coaches in any sport.

 

[JournCat]

Recruiting at Duke and Kentucky has been a piece of cake for ages, and it certainly didn't originate with Coach K and Calipari.

Actually ... it kind of did. K more or less built the Duke mystique on his own, though they certainly had good years before his arrival. And ask Tubby Smith or Billy Gillespie how easy it is to recruit to Kentucky, even with all of its tradition. Then you actually have to coach them, even though they have plenty of incentive to get their own stats and not listen for the six months they're on campus.

This post was edited on 4/8 10:08 AM by JournCat

 

[LANGHORNE DAVE]

Coach Foster did get Duke to a final four before losing to Kentucky but after he left Duke had some lean years. Coach K then rebuilt the program into one of the elites. 5 titles are 5 titles, no matter how he did it. As great a coach Bo Ryan is, the real Bo showed after in press conference after losing to Duke. I've complained for years about this myth over the great defense and lack of fouling. Just watch a Wisconsin game. They're as physical a team as there is and get away with murder. Refs finally start calling fouls that Wisconsin commits EVERY game and all Bo does is whine. Compare that to Calipari's press conference after the Wisconsin loss. Nothing like ending a historic season with sour grapes.