Do-over ... Collins gets multi-year contract extension

[Sec.112]

The original thread was going so far off the rails that I thought I'd try discussing the topic at hand.

I gotta say I'm pretty surprised by this news today. I'd be interested to know why this was done with five years remaining on the original contract. It has me asking all sorts of questions about what's happening in the background. I hope the original contract was below B10 salary levels to see if everybody would be comfortable with a first-time head coach. If so, then the extension makes some sense. Otherwise ...

I like what CC has done so far, but it hasn't blown me away. It's a good start. And if I was the good Dr., there hasn't been enough in the portfolio to make me think CC is without-a-doubt THE guy.

I think you could have easily done the same thing in the fourth or fifth year of the contract.

Frankly, this extension seems like the Jay Cutler extension to me. NU is strongly committing itself to someone who still has some question marks, when it has some time to complete the evaluation.

On the bright side, I hope it shows us how committed CC is.

 

[Styre]

I gotta say I'm pretty surprised by this news today. I'd be interested to know why this was done with five years remaining on the original contract. It has me asking all sorts of questions about what's happening in the background. I hope the original contract was below B10 salary levels to see if everybody would be comfortable with a first-time head coach. If so, then the extension makes some sense. Otherwise ...

I agree. If the initial CBS report of a 7 year deal was true, it makes very little sense to give CC a lucrative extension after only two years. For me, there are two plausible explanations:

1) Some other program has been quietly sniffing around CC and he used that as leverage to get a bigger salary, or

2) JP is trying to lock in CC below what his market rate will ultimately be if he takes NU to the tournament, gambling that CC will be able to do so in the near future.

Otherwise, it doesn't make a lot of sense -- if there's no outside interest, CC has no leverage to ask for a raise, and JP has no incentive to give him one if he's waiting for results in the W/L columns.

If CC has the success we all want him to have, this will look like a great move in retrospect. If he doesn't, it'll be an albatross around the program's neck. So let's hope it's the former.

 

[JournCat]

Agreed with all the reasons listed above. Collins has done a nice job, but no bigger program is hiring a guy who posted two losing seasons in his first two as a head coach. In trying to play devil's advocate, I thought of two arguments: College coaches typically get extensions with several years to go for recruiting purposes, and JP wants CC to remember this deal if/when we make the tournament and bigger programs do come calling then. I think he'll have to give Chris another deal anyway if we make the tournament.

 

[CPVT]

hHard to speculate accurately without knowing details on the extension or salaries, but I think its a solid move. I think he has surpassed any reasonable expectations for his first 2 years. Whether he can keep improving and start posting some winning seasons remains to be seen, but I think its unlikely that he will do anything to merit being on the hotseat over the length of the original contract. Extending him (again, who knows for how long or if it was just a raise) seems like a solid move to build trust with a coach who looks like hes going to be here for a long time.

Hiring a young coach to rebuild a program is a different game than bringing in an established guy. We have to be more patient with our evaluations, because he is surely developing alongside the young recruits he is coaching. I think we won't really know exactly how well CC rates until he has graduated a couple recruiting classes. If at that time he ends up looking like a stud, then I think we will be glad to have him locked up already.

 

[NJCat83588]

Hiring a young coach to rebuild a program is a different game than bringing in an established guy. We have to be more patient with our evaluations, because he is surely developing alongside the young recruits he is coaching. I think we won't really know exactly how well CC rates until he has graduated a couple recruiting classes. If at that time he ends up looking like a stud, then I think we will be glad to have him locked up already.

"Rebuild" a program? Huh?? Did I miss something? When was NU a "built" program? Carmody had the Cats on the cusp, but let's face it, NU has NEVER been a factor in Men's basketball. Collins is trying to "build" a program, and for that he needs to be given time to do it his way. The fact that he cannot point to a winning past makes it all the more difficult to do the first time. I have no problem giving him a decade to succeed because I think it might just take that long.

 

[Medill90]

I don't have a problem with this because of the recruiting.

What Collins has achieved so far on the recruiting front is exceptional precisely because it's NU. I'm all for giving him a very long leash to refine the other parts of his resume.

And as a Dr. Jim critic, I don't have problem with this. Dr. Jim will be judged in great part on how the revenue sports perform. He should be allowed to hire and retain his own guys and gals.

Edited to add "and gals"

 

[Walker Fan]

Tim Miles just got an extension which was announced today which raises his salary to $2 million a year and UNL finished behind NU in the standings this year, even though UNL beat the 'cats. Miles did slip in the tournament two years ago behind Terran Petteway and got blasted in the first round of the NCAA tourney by Baylor. Not exactly an overwhelming winning record at UNL.

Hopefully, NU under CC, makes the NIT this upcoming season and if he does so, you know that there will be other programs sniffing around him. And hopefully, if NU makes the NCAA tourney in two years, NU and Collins will be the Cinderalla story and he will be getting the Barnett treatment by other schools. So to get an extension done now, which is more commensurate of the market for Big 10 coaches is a smart move by JP.

 

[CPVT]

"Rebuild" a program? Huh?? Did I miss something? When was NU a "built" program? .

Well I was just using a little sports cliche, but fine.

We won the national title in 1930-31 season, so I am fully comfortable saying rebuild

But other than that i agree on giving him plenty of time for whatever it is he is doing

 

[NJCat83588]

And hopefully, if NU makes the NCAA tourney in two years, NU and Collins will be the Cinderalla story and he will be getting the Barnett treatment by other schools. So to get an extension done now, which is more commensurate of the market for Big 10 coaches is a smart move by JP.

I agree it will be big news when NU makes the NCAA tournament. But let's not confuse it with what Barnett accomplished: NU was ranked as high as 3rd in the country in 1995 and won the Big 10. While it wasn't NU's first Rose Bowl, bring NU from the depths of the dark ages to the Rose Bowl in 1996 was an accomplishment which will far outshine NU finally making the NCAA tournament unless the Cats do so by winning the Big 10.

I also agree that other schools will sniff around Collins just like they did Barnett (and allegedly Fitzgerald) when they were successful, given the degree of difficulty of winning big at NU. The extension will make it more difficult to leave but not impossible.

 

[SciCat]

Amazing. This board is comparing Barnett with a season or seasons that haven't even happened. Amazing.

 

[NUCat320]

I don't have a problem with this because of the recruiting.

What Collins has achieved so far on the recruiting front is exceptional precisely because it's NU. I'm all for giving him a very long leash to refine the other parts of his resume.

And as a Dr. Jim critic, I don't have problem with this. Dr. Jim will be judged in great part on how the revenue sports perform. He should be allowed to hire and retain his own guys and gals.

Edited to add "and gals"

I have no 'problem' with the deal per se, but I don't see an obvious way it makes a lot of sense for Northwestern. Collins is exactly the same coach he was when NU committed a reported (and extraordinary) seven years to him. Perhaps ~$1.4 million per year (if $10M/7Y is accurate), but NU is also sub-B1G standard in performance and revenues.

I guess there's a scenario where a similar-stature major conference program was showing interest, but, truthfully, I don't see that being feasible for a relatively inexperienced coach with solid pedigree but a losing record. (Then again, Minny signed Little Richie, so all things are possible.) As a hypothetical, I don't think CCC would energize any fanbase based on record or profile.

Recruiting wise, the status of ccc's contract impacts the rising junior class - the hs class of 2017 could have concerns over the length of contract ending their junior year. But, honestly, how many coaches currently did have contracts beyond 2020 entering this morning? Not a lot, I'd assume, especially among those with two years' experience and zero postseason appearances.

I fully support CCC and think that NU may become a tourney contender this year. So, my reaction is not "no!" or "yes!" but, basically, "why?" My only assumption is that CCC asked, and Dr. Jim figured, for the sake of the relationship, it was just better to say yes rather than introduce any hint of discord. It was gonna happen in 1 or 2 years anyway, right?

 

[catfans5]

I think this was an outstanding move. In the last two years, CC has changed the program. I really liked BC, but the emphasis on defense and rebounding seen the last two years is what consistent winning programs. Heck, the development of Olah the last two years warrants the extension. CC may not have had the experience or moxie to make quick changes in his approach with the team, but he did change things over the course of the year. CC is a keeper and I am glad others see it.

 

[hdhntr1]

I agree it will be big news when NU makes the NCAA tournament. But let's not confuse it with what Barnett accomplished: NU was ranked as high as 3rd in the country in 1995 and won the Big 10. While it wasn't NU's first Rose Bowl, bring NU from the depths of the dark ages to the Rose Bowl in 1996 was an accomplishment which will far outshine NU finally making the NCAA tournament unless the Cats do so by winning the Big 10.

I also agree that other schools will sniff around Collins just like they did Barnett (and allegedly Fitzgerald) when they were successful, given the degree of difficulty of winning big at NU. The extension will make it more difficult to leave but not impossible.

Or getting to the final 4 in that first time

 

[NU64]

It certainly looks like CCC asked. Greenstein quotes him as saying," I just wanted to be treated fairly" and as suggested Dr. Jim probably figured, why not? Hopefully, we can keep Chris for a long time.

 

[Turk]

I agree. If the initial CBS report of a 7 year deal was true, it makes very little sense to give CC a lucrative extension after only two years. For me, there are two plausible explanations:

1) Some other program has been quietly sniffing around CC and he used that as leverage to get a bigger salary, or

2) JP is trying to lock in CC below what his market rate will ultimately be if he takes NU to the tournament, gambling that CC will be able to do so in the near future.

Otherwise, it doesn't make a lot of sense -- if there's no outside interest, CC has no leverage to ask for a raise, and JP has no incentive to give him one if he's waiting for results in the W/L columns.

If CC has the success we all want him to have, this will look like a great move in retrospect. If he doesn't, it'll be an albatross around the program's neck. So let's hope it's the former.

There will be outside interest, and Phillips pre-empted that. Operation Purple Hardwood.
The first two years under Collins was a measurement of building, based on recruiting and I think it is reasonable to suggest that CC's recruiting has positioned this program for "high hoops" [Sorry Barnett]. My own anticipation for this year has me reasoning another strong step forward that probably means a NIT bid. Also, maybe Phillips wanted to secure the program better as his own action of departure. Phillips will, no doubt, be gone to advance his own career. As in the case often, when someone leaves, they want to make sure they didn't leave without taking care of those they are loyal to. Dunno, but just a thought.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Here's some more fan discussion on the extension courtesy of twitter.

 

[NJCat83588]

Here's some more fan discussion on the extension courtesy of twitter.

View embedded media

Something I NEVER thought I'd see, VaC quoting DCF's son! Maybe there is hope for World Peace after all!!

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Something I NEVER thought I'd see, VaC quoting DCF's son! Maybe there is hope for World Peace after all!!

Click on it. Some interesting points of view both ways. The only thing I don't agree with is the idiot who said CC has literally done nothing in two years. That's ridiculous, but the other POVs are decent.

 

[realcatfan]

Here's some more fan discussion on the extension courtesy of twitter.

View embedded media

I don't think it means that the administration or anyone involved with NU thinks an NCAA Tourney is a lock. I do think that it means the administration highly values recruiting in college basketball and does a nice job looking at the next 2-3 down the road while making hiring/firing decisions.

Phillips took over April of 2008. Immediately Beth Combs retired. The women's team had less than 8 wins for as long as I cared to look. Her record was 7-59 in conference play and there wasn't upside to look at. The next year, McKeown didn't do much either. It was time and Phillips didn't hesitate.

The men's team had come off of back to back terrible seasons at 3-31 in conference play. Carmody could have gone too, but Phillips saw a nucleus of Coble, Moore and Juice combined with a recruiting class of Shurna and big guys Curletti, and Mirkovic and Rowley, size is always a good thing. He saw things improving and decided Carmody was the best coach for the current team. This was rewarded with 4 NITs.

After that, the team slipped again. Recruiting dropped including the biggest miss of all in Kaminsky. Instead of taking the next step of getting to the tourney, the team went the other way. After a 4-14 season in 2012-13, very few, except for a few notables on this board, thought 2013-14 and 2014-15 would be solid years. The trajectory of the team was going down. Carmody wasn't going to an extension, and had 1 year left so he got canned.

Now, the trajectory of the program is rising again. We have an athleticism I have not seen before. We're developing players like Olah. Most importantly, the team appears to be having a lot of fun. That's important too. We're putting recruiting classes together and we actually have top to bottom depth. Why not get ahead of this wave and let it push us where it's going to take us.

 

[Styre]

I don't think it means that the administration or anyone involved with NU thinks an NCAA Tourney is a lock. I do think that it means the administration highly values recruiting in college basketball and does a nice job looking at the next 2-3 down the road while making hiring/firing decisions.

None of that -- and I agree with a lot of it -- explains why we extended CC when we already have him under contract for five more seasons. This year's incoming freshmen will all graduate by the time his original contact expires. We're way ahead of the wave. We're two years beyond "looking at the next 2-3 years down the road."

People are turning this into a referendum on Collins, as though anyone who supports CC must logically think this is a good idea. But the two issues are unrelated. I think Collins is doing a good job thus far, and I think the program is trending upward. But we have him here until 2020, so why not wait until the results start showing up on the court before extending him even further?

One of the few sensible reasons to do this now is if you think the NCAAs are a lock in the next year or two, and you're trying to lock him in below what his value will be after that happens. Overpay now to underpay later, in other words.

 

[Medill90]

None of that -- and I agree with a lot of it -- explains why we extended CC when we already have him under contract for five more seasons. This year's incoming freshmen will all graduate by the time his original contact expires. We're way ahead of the wave. We're two years beyond "looking at the next 2-3 years down the road."

People are turning this into a referendum on Collins, as though anyone who supports CC must logically think this is a good idea. But the two issues are unrelated. I think Collins is doing a good job thus far, and I think the program is trending upward. But we have him here until 2020, so why not wait until the results start showing up on the court before extending him even further?

One of the few sensible reasons to do this now is if you think the NCAAs are a lock in the next year or two, and you're trying to lock him in below what his value will be after that happens. Overpay now to underpay later, in other words.

I don't disagree with the support points you use to make your argument.

But here's the thing. We're talking about what, $3 millionish to give a little reward to a guy who is absolutely working his ass off and bringing in elite recruits with a consistency never before seen at NU?

If for whatever reason it turns out to be a bad spend, so what? It's not like that money was going to be spent on facilities. It's de minimis in the grand scheme of NU revenue sports.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

I don't disagree with the support points you use to make your argument.

But here's the thing. We're talking about what, $3 millionish to give a little reward to a guy who is absolutely working his ass off and bringing in elite recruits with a consistency never before seen at NU?

If for whatever reason it turns out to be a bad spend, so what? It's not like that money was going to be spent on facilities. It's de minimis in the grand scheme of NU revenue sports.

This is my line of thinking. In the grand scheme of things, this whole story isn't really a big deal either way. It's a true vote of confidence to CC (and thus, beneficial to recruiting), but otherwise, it won't prevent us from going a different direction if things take a bad turn.

 

[NUCat320]

Also, maybe Phillips wanted to secure the program better as his own action of departure. Phillips will, no doubt, be gone to advance his own career. As in the case often, when someone leaves, they want to make sure they didn't leave without taking care of those they are loyal to. Dunno, but just a thought.

I think that's pretty insightful, Turk.

 

[beetlemania74]

One of the few sensible reasons to do this now is if you think the NCAAs are a lock in the next year or two, and you're trying to lock him in below what his value will be after that happens. Overpay now to underpay later, in other words.

Ok, but let's say the team does make the tourney (and maybe even advances a couple of rounds) in the next year or two, making CCC a hot commodity in the coaching world. What's to say he doesn't come back then and ask for another raise, claiming he's underpaid? If he thinks he's underpsid later, then he'll probably make that known. This extension today doesn't really mean he's any more "locked in" than he was before. He could still walk away if a better-name program comes calling. What it does do, I guess, is keep him happy in the meantime, and it shows that NU likes and supports him. A show of goodwill, if you will...

 

[Styre]

If for whatever reason it turns out to be a bad spend, so what? It's not like that money was going to be spent on facilities. It's de minimis in the grand scheme of NU revenue sports.

I like this argument, and I use it often when talking about other sports teams, but this has to be one of the first times anyone has used the "who cares, they've got money to burn" argument for Northwestern!

Ok, but let's say the team does make the tourney (and maybe even advances a couple of rounds) in the next year or two, making CCC a hot commodity in the coaching world. What's to say he doesn't come back then and ask for another raise, claiming he's underpaid? If he thinks he's underpsid later, then he'll probably make that known. This extension today doesn't really mean he's any more "locked in" than he was before. He could still walk away if a better-name program comes calling. What it does do, I guess, is keep him happy in the meantime, and it shows that NU likes and supports him. A show of goodwill, if you will...

Good counterpoint, and my answer is "that's why I wouldn't have given him this extension in the first place." And I would argue that a 7 year contract for a rookie head coach was a BIG show of good will.

In any case, let's hope we get to the tournament soon so this move looks brilliantly prescient.

 

[beetlemania74]

Good counterpoint, and my answer is "that's why I wouldn't have given him this extension in the first place." And I would argue that a 7 year contract for a rookie head coach was a BIG show of good will.

I agree, but of course I'm on the outside looking in. Maybe Dr. Jim and Dr. Shapiro are so impressed with CCC that they think he's basically irreplaceable. The perfect fit for NU basketball. They want him to know it, and they want to try to limit the chance of someone else sweet talking him away from Evanston.

 

[pawildcat]

I don't disagree with the support points you use to make your argument.

But here's the thing. We're talking about what, $3 millionish to give a little reward to a guy who is absolutely working his ass off and bringing in elite recruits with a consistency never before seen at NU?

If for whatever reason it turns out to be a bad spend, so what? It's not like that money was going to be spent on facilities. It's de minimis in the grand scheme of NU revenue sports.

I have no problem with the job Collins is doing so far or with the extension if the power that be think that best, but gotta say I never thought I'd reach the day when $3 million, more than most people make in a lifetime of work, is considered a "little" reward for coaching hoops.

 

[Medill90]

I have no problem with the job Collins is doing so far or with the extension if the power that be think that best, but gotta say I never thought I'd reach the day when $3 million, more than most people make in a lifetime of work, is considered a "little" reward for coaching hoops.

You're right, of course. But he should probably compared to his peers. In the Big Ten, he's closer to the bottom than the top even after the raise (the figures for which are speculative).

 

[catsattackfor3]

It certainly looks like CCC asked. Greenstein quotes him as saying," I just wanted to be treated fairly" and as suggested Dr. Jim probably figured, why not? Hopefully, we can keep Chris for a long time.

Wait a minute, I wanted to be treated fairly? Let us not forget a few things, CCC has had 2 losing seasons after following a coach that had 4 winning seasons in his last 5 years. Plus he inherited a team that had some talent (Crawford, etc.). I like the energy CCC has brought to NU but he is still unproven, has recruited well but is there a Shurna, Crawford, Thompson, Vedran, or Young type of career in this mix of players?? (no one knows) I am happy we hired him and the last coach had run its course but making a long term commitment like this is a little presumptuous. It in all honesty can turn out to be a real bad decision if CCC does not get it done. Let him get a winning record first and make a post season before we say we are definitely on the rise. KON had a good recruiting class his second year too...got us no where.

 

[hdhntr1]

It certainly looks like CCC asked. Greenstein quotes him as saying," I just wanted to be treated fairly" and as suggested Dr. Jim probably figured, why not? Hopefully, we can keep Chris for a long time.

Often the first contract for a rookie HC is low (maybe in this case $250-500K) . Phillips might have said at the time that he would review things after the first couple years and reevaluate as part of the contract. CCCs first couple years have been a positive and shown that he is being successful in recruiting higher level guys regardless of facilities. This is what Phillips was looking for before committing bigger money. This does a couple things. It says to CCC that Phillips is to be trusted and has his back. Therefore any future interest from another team would be viewed differently than if the contract extension (raise ) had not been given. Better to have CCC think NU has his back rather than only raises salary when forced. Maintains abetter relationship and keeps communication open when outside interest arises.

 

[hdhntr1]

Wait a minute, I wanted to be treated fairly? Let us not forget a few things, CCC has had 2 losing seasons after following a coach that had 4 winning seasons in his last 5 years. Plus he inherited a team that had some talent (Crawford, etc.). I like the energy CCC has brought to NU but he is still unproven, has recruited well but is there a Shurna, Crawford, Thompson, Vedran, or Young type of career in this mix of players?? (no one knows) I am happy we hired him and the last coach had run its course but making a long term commitment like this is a little presumptuous. It in all honesty can turn out to be a real bad decision if CCC does not get it done. Let him get a winning record first and make a post season before we say we are definitely on the rise. KON had a good recruiting class his second year too...got us no where.

CCC had a rookie first time HC contract with fairly low pay. Probably had an agreement that things would be looked at after a couple years. Phillips happy with progress so far and wants to maintain a healthy relationship

 

[Gladeskat]

Often the first contract for a rookie HC is low (maybe in this case $250-500K) . Phillips might have said at the time that he would review things after the first couple years and reevaluate as part of the contract. CCCs first couple years have been a positive and shown that he is being successful in recruiting higher level guys regardless of facilities. This is what Phillips was looking for before committing bigger money. This does a couple things. It says to CCC that Phillips is to be trusted and has his back. Therefore any future interest from another team would be viewed differently than if the contract extension (raise ) had not been given. Better to have CCC think NU has his back rather than only raises salary when forced. Maintains abetter relationship and keeps communication open when outside interest arises.

According to Greenstein in the Trib., CCC's starting contract was for around $1.4 million/year. He was the 10th highest paid coach in the Big Ten. Now at an estimated $1.7 million/year, he is around 7th-8th in the Big Ten, comparable to Groce.

 

[Medill90]

Wait a minute, I wanted to be treated fairly? Let us not forget a few things, CCC has had 2 losing seasons after following a coach that had 4 winning seasons in his last 5 years. Plus he inherited a team that had some talent (Crawford, etc.). I like the energy CCC has brought to NU but he is still unproven, has recruited well but is there a Shurna, Crawford, Thompson, Vedran, or Young type of career in this mix of players?? (no one knows) I am happy we hired him and the last coach had run its course but making a long term commitment like this is a little presumptuous. It in all honesty can turn out to be a real bad decision if CCC does not get it done. Let him get a winning record first and make a post season before we say we are definitely on the rise. KON had a good recruiting class his second year too...got us no where.

Catsattack,

There's nothing wrong with your argument that performance and results the last two years have been below average. I'd argue that the transition has been fun and interesting.

The former NU players you list were great. I'd also include Coble. I'm pretty confident that some of the guys on the team and some coming in are better than the best of that group. And maybe more than a notch or two better.

It's going to take another three or four years to see how this thing turns out so what, really, is the risk? Two or three years if he's a disaster?

And let's not forget, Collins actually wants to be at NU. He could coach at many other D1 programs but he has the love for NU. That's worth a few mill and a couple extra years.

 

[NJCat83588]

Catsattack,

And let's not forget, Collins actually wants to be at NU. He could coach at many other D1 programs but he has the love for NU. That's worth a few mill and a couple extra years.

This argument makes no sense. If he really "loves" being at NU, he should be willing to settle for less, not require more! His "love" should be taken with a huge pinch of NaCl.......

Frankly, I could care less whether a coach loves NU or not. What matters is results. They could be the most unhappy human being living in Northfield but if players graduate, stay out of trouble and win games, that is all that matters.

 

[pawildcat]

You're right, of course. But he should probably compared to his peers. In the Big Ten, he's closer to the bottom than the top even after the raise (the figures for which are speculative).

That is certainly true, but still mind-blowing. I remember when Joe Namath's $400,000 bonus was considered insane.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Tim Miles just got an extension which was announced today which raises his salary to $2 million a year and UNL finished behind NU in the standings this year, even though UNL beat the 'cats. Miles did slip in the tournament two years ago behind Terran Petteway and got blasted in the first round of the NCAA tourney by Baylor. Not exactly an overwhelming winning record at UNL.

Hopefully, NU under CC, makes the NIT this upcoming season and if he does so, you know that there will be other programs sniffing around him. And hopefully, if NU makes the NCAA tourney in two years, NU and Collins will be the Cinderalla story and he will be getting the Barnett treatment by other schools. So to get an extension done now, which is more commensurate of the market for Big 10 coaches is a smart move by JP.

I am pretty convicted that we will make the tourney this year. It will need to be this year - next year we may take a step back, because we lose Olah and JvZ. If he makes it this year, he'll be ahead of Coach K's schedule.

 

[catsattackfor3]

I am pretty convicted that we will make the tourney this year. It will need to be this year - next year we may take a step back, because we lose Olah and JvZ. If he makes it this year, he'll be ahead of Coach K's schedule.

Coach K's schedule of what? Duke was in the NCAA championship game just 3 years prior to K taking over and in the Elite 8 the year prior to him taking the job. yes it took him 4 years to return to the tournament but at that time the tournament was 48 teams. I wish people would not compare us to Duke...ever. K took them into the stratosphere as far success but this was a program that was in the NCAA tournament numerous times prior to him taking over and in the Final 4 - 5x's prior to taking over. We have Zero history like that and any comparisons to where Duke was before K and where we were before Collins, or for that matter BC is ridiculous.

 

[NJCat83588]

Coach K's schedule of what? Duke was in the NCAA championship game just 3 years prior to K taking over and in the Elite 8 the year prior to him taking the job. yes it took him 4 years to return to the tournament but at that time the tournament was 48 teams. I wish people would not compare us to Duke...ever. K took them into the stratosphere as far success but this was a program that was in the NCAA tournament numerous times prior to him taking over and in the Final 4 - 5x's prior to taking over. We have Zero history like that and any comparisons to where Duke was before K and where we were before Collins, or for that matter BC is ridiculous.

Amen to this. I don't know who you would compare the NU Men's hoop program to, but it sure ain't Duke!

 

[realcatfan]

None of that -- and I agree with a lot of it -- explains why we extended CC when we already have him under contract for five more seasons. This year's incoming freshmen will all graduate by the time his original contact expires. We're way ahead of the wave. We're two years beyond "looking at the next 2-3 years down the road."

People are turning this into a referendum on Collins, as though anyone who supports CC must logically think this is a good idea. But the two issues are unrelated. I think Collins is doing a good job thus far, and I think the program is trending upward. But we have him here until 2020, so why not wait until the results start showing up on the court before extending him even further?

One of the few sensible reasons to do this now is if you think the NCAAs are a lock in the next year or two, and you're trying to lock him in below what his value will be after that happens. Overpay now to underpay later, in other words.

The question isn't how long he's under contract. The questions are:

1. How much money will it take to lure Collins away from NU?
2. What type of buyout will NU receive if Collins is lured away?
3. Does that type of buyout make hiring Collins away impossible?

If Collins is not on par with Tim Miles, Richard Pitino, or Jim Groce, then the answer to #1 is not much. In my mind, it's fair to think Collins should be around those guys even if they've already made the tourney.

How low were the buyouts on the initial contract? I'm guessing that NU didn't commit to a big buyout given the length of the original contract and the fact that Collins was a 1st time head coach. In turn, Collins probably didn't have a big buyout if he left given the low value of the first contract relative to power 5 head coaches. As such, the contract extension may have been a way to get Collins to rev up the buyout on his end.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Amen to this. I don't know who you would compare the NU Men's hoop program to, but it sure ain't Duke!

You both are missing the point.

Duke WAS in the Final Four just recently prior to K taking over. Still, K did not go to the tourney until year 4. It took time to build his program. And I think Collins is on that same plan. I FULLY expect Collins to get us to the tourney this year, and then have a comparable level of success that Coach K has accomplished at Duke.

I understand your skepticism. But, I believe because I want to believe. I believe it is possible at NU, and I think Collins thinks it is possible and I think that's why he is here, to make it happen.