do we need a star player?

[DonatelloCat]

there have been a number of posts speculating about the starting line-up, etc. one question that I have from time to time is . . . do we need a super star player on our team? we've clearly had stars emerge over the years (shurna, crawford, etc etc). but this is more of a hypothetical than a question about who's currently on our roster or recruiting.

in other words . . . do we need someone to step up and be the clear "star" of the team in order to be successful? or can we be a tournament team (and hopefully beyond!) with a bunch of very good players but no clear star?

 

[Styre]

It all depends on our talent level. None of our recent star players have been NBA-caliber, for example; meanwhile, the best programs can have future NBA players that aren't stars because of the talent around them.

Do we need a "star" to make the tournament? I don't think so, although I suspect many players on a deep team like that would have qualified as "stars" in the darker periods of our history. But the "and beyond" part of your question -- yes, I think we would.

 

[Sec.112]

No. NU history has a few examples of the absence of D-League level players who probably would have made THE difference in a season.

* Put Coble with Thompson and Shurna in '10-'11
* Put Eschmeyer (OK, maybe not D-League level, but a freshman) with the Rankin/Baldwin team
* Put Carlisle with the Eschmeyer teams

 

[NJCat83588]

in other words . . . do we need someone to step up and be the clear "star" of the team in order to be successful? or can we be a tournament team (and hopefully beyond!) with a bunch of very good players but no clear star?

I think we do need someone to be the clear leader. I can't think of many examples of Big 10 tournament teams without a clear leader. And I think Tre can be that guy this season.

 

[Deeringfish]

there have been a number of posts speculating about the starting line-up, etc. one question that I have from time to time is . . . do we need a super star player on our team? we've clearly had stars emerge over the years (shurna, crawford, etc etc). but this is more of a hypothetical than a question about who's currently on our roster or recruiting.

in other words . . . do we need someone to step up and be the clear "star" of the team in order to be successful? or can we be a tournament team (and hopefully beyond!) with a bunch of very good players but no clear star?

IMO we have never had a "star" player since Esch. We have had a couple of guys who were good and had a couple of great nights but to me star means they dominate some aspect of the game week in and week out. Even our great players were never rally consistently dominant.

Maybe a star player is what we need.

 

[NUCat320]

IMO we have never had a "star" player since Esch. We have had a couple of guys who were good and had a couple of great nights but to me star means they dominate some aspect of the game week in and week out. Even our great players were never rally consistently dominant.

Maybe a star player is what we need.

Two comments:
- John Shurna was a definite star player. The B1G's leading scorer is almost always a star, I would say. He was awesome.

- You need a late-game go-to guy, a 'put the team on my back' guy. While those are often the same, they don't need to be.

I would argue that Demps is the second guy, but not a star. Demps is unique, though.

I would say that nu does not have a star, but I think Vic Law could get there.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Esch was a great (by any definition) collegiate basketball player, but I don't recall him being able to dominate (in the manner you outlined) "game week in and out" until maybe the end of his career. He had outstanding junior and senior seasons, but even then he struggled to lead the charge at times. I know there was a ton a pressure without having a supporting cast and the double/ even occasional triple teams certainly didn't help, but I don't think Evan meets the criteria you are describing. In my mind, I see you describing an incredibly rare player. The type of player a blue blood might land once every couple of years (and one I'd love to see in Evanston!). College athletes are by nature inconsistent. Perhaps, my memory of Esch is fading, but I don't believe the 'Cats have ever boasted a player like that.

That being said, Esch and John Shurna should be celebrated as the two stars of NU hoops over the past 20 years. Both racked up similar scoring numbers in vastly different systems. Esch was a force to be reckoned with down low whereas Shurna was the most versatile player I have ever seen wear the purple. They are the only two wildcats to be named all BIG on three separate occasions and the only ones to have been named all americans (in the modern era). That's a star, at least in my book anyway.

 

[willycat]

IMO we have never had a "star" player since Esch. We have had a couple of guys who were good and had a couple of great nights but to me star means they dominate some aspect of the game week in and week out. Even our great players were never rally consistently dominant.

Maybe a star player is what we need.

I feel that a 'Star" player is exactly what NU needs to get in the national spotlight. They need a guy like Aguirre who put DePaul on the BB map and he provided the push that got other blue chippers to commit to Ray Meyer. A one and done type is what would make NU top 25 team.

 

[NJCat83588]

I feel that a 'Star" player is exactly what NU needs to get in the national spotlight. They need a guy like Aguirre who put DePaul on the BB map and he provided the push that got other blue chippers to commit to Ray Meyer. A one and done type is what would make NU top 25 team.

I agree with you that a "one and done" player would bring national recognition and lead NU to a great season. But I don't think it is necessary for a top 25 ranking. There are only a handful of these players each year and most of them go to a select few programs: KY, Duke, OSU, etc. So the majority of top 25 teams don't have one. And the odds of NU every getting one through admissions are pretty darn long, even if Collins could get a kid interested. I think putting hopes on one of those kids is a false ambition, and NU can be plenty successful in the mode of a Northern Iowa, Creighton, Iowa, or Butler without one.

 

[cometclear]

Esch was a great (by any definition) collegiate basketball player, but I don't recall him being able to dominate (in the manner you outlined) "game week in and out" until maybe the end of his career. He had outstanding junior and senior seasons, but even then he struggled to lead the charge at times. I know there was a ton a pressure without having a supporting cast and the double/ even occasional triple teams certainly didn't help, but I don't think Evan meets the criteria you are describing. In my mind, I see you describing an incredibly rare player. The type of player a blue blood might land once every couple of years (and one I'd love to see in Evanston!). College athletes are by nature inconsistent. Perhaps, my memory of Esch is fading, but I don't believe the 'Cats have ever boasted a player like that.

That being said, Esch and John Shurna should be celebrated as the two stars of NU hoops over the past 20 years. Both racked up similar scoring numbers in vastly different systems. Esch was a force to be reckoned with down low whereas Shurna was the most versatile player I have ever seen wear the purple. They are the only two wildcats to be named all BIG on three separate occasions and the only ones to have been named all americans (in the modern era). That's a star, at least in my book anyway.

Sorry, but your recollection is incorrect. Eschmeyer was consistently dominant in the post, week-to-week. I think he was the best Big Ten back-to-the-basket player since Kevin McHale. He was constantly triple-teamed and still put up 20/10 with little support. I haven't seen a pure post in the Big Ten since then as good as Eschmeyer. It's heartbreaking to think what he could have done for NU without the injuries, not to mention his NBA career. Again, I'm talking about pure pivots.

 

[shakes3858]

I think we need 2 go to scorers at the wing. McIntosh plays a smart game and runs the point very well. I'm excited to see him play an inside out game with Olah this year. I don't think McIntosh is the guy we can count on to stop a 6-0 run from turning into a 12-0 run by taking the ball and telling everyone to get out of his way. Demps can do it, but he's not always in the game and often gets the opponents best defender on him making his life more difficult.

If we had a second scorer, then we can always keep one of them in the game and when they're both in they'll take pressure off the other. I'm hoping someone out of Law, Lindsey, or Ash can take that roll.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Sorry, but your recollection is incorrect. Eschmeyer was consistently dominant in the post, week-to-week. I think he was the best Big Ten back-to-the-basket player since Kevin McHale. He was constantly triple-teamed and still put up 20/10 with little support. I haven't seen a pure post in the Big Ten since then as good as Eschmeyer. It's heartbreaking to think what he could have done for NU without the injuries, not to mention his NBA career. Again, I'm talking about pure pivots.

Eschmeyer was a 1st Team All-American. I saw him beat IU at Assembly Hall being triple teamed all night and putting up something like 30 and 13 (those numbers are potentially completely wrong). He got us to the NIT despite playing with a bunch of freshmen and scrubs.

 

[NJCat83588]

Eschmeyer was a 1st Team All-American. I saw him beat IU at Assembly Hall being triple teamed all night and putting up something like 30 and 13 (those numbers are potentially completely wrong)..

Uh, no you didn't....NU lost the 1998 game 81-78. You must be having a flashback to the 2011 Carmody team that won for the first time, ever, in Assembly Hall, 75-53.............it was at that point the worst loss ever suffered at the Hall by the Hoosiers.

I agree that Esch was amazing. He was the second best player I saw at NU, behind only Billy McKinney.

 

[mekCat]

Uh, no you didn't....NU lost the 1998 game 81-78. You must be having a flashback to the 2011 Carmody team that won for the first time, ever, in Assembly Hall, 75-53.............it was at that point the worst loss ever suffered at the Hall by the Hoosiers.

I agree that Esch was amazing. He was the second best player I saw at NU, behind only Billy McKinney.

McKinney also had a monster game against Indiana, in McGaw Hall. Final score in the 90s, my recollection is the Cats won and he had like 45 of the points. But I could be way wrong about that too. Getting old. But I did see the game!

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

"I haven't seen a pure post in the Big Ten since then as good as Eschmeyer. It's heartbreaking to think what he could have done for NU without the injuries, not to mention his NBA career. Again, I'm talking about pure pivots."

I would tend to agree with this sentiment, although the BIG hasn't done so well with centers on the next level recently (Brad Miller & Jared Sullinger are the only ones to have averaged double figures in the NBA since 1998). Don't get me wrong, Esch is the best I've seen play for NU hoops, but there is another level. Guys like Shaq, Glen Robinson, Greg Oden, Anthony Davis, etc. That's the type of (consistently dominant) player I was referring to above. Esch tended to start strong and fade a bit at the end of seasons (not really his fault-see below).

I'm with you on the health issue (knees, right?). Had EE been 100% he may very well have willed the 98-99 squad into the tournament all by himself. With 6 seasons under his belt, he was as polished as a college product can get. Loved his game.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Eschmeyer was a 1st Team All-American. I saw him beat IU at Assembly Hall being triple teamed all night and putting up something like 30 and 13 (those numbers are potentially completely wrong)."

EE was 2nd team (Elton Brand was 1st). Esch was 19 and 10 guy in his 6th season. Can you imagine if Olah could do that next year...

 

[NJCat83588]

McKinney also had a monster game against Indiana, in McGaw Hall. Final score in the 90s, my recollection is the Cats won and he had like 45 of the points. But I could be way wrong about that too. Getting old. But I did see the game!

What is it about Indiana that has Cat fans recalling so many phantom victories? NU didn't beat IU in Billy C's 4 years in Evanston. You might be thinking of when NU upset then #6 Kentucky in McGaw in '75, 89-77, or more likely #2 Michigan 99-87 in '78......I was at both games but don't remember much of either.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Uh, no you didn't....NU lost the 1998 game 81-78. You must be having a flashback to the 2011 Carmody team that won for the first time, ever, in Assembly Hall, 75-53.............it was at that point the worst loss ever suffered at the Hall by the Hoosiers.

In all its glory.

Craig Moore could shoot

 

[hdhntr1]

What is it about Indiana that has Cat fans recalling so many phantom victories? NU didn't beat IU in Billy C's 4 years in Evanston. You might be thinking of when NU upset then #6 Kentucky in McGaw in '75, 89-77, or more likely #2 Michigan 99-87 in '78......I was at both games but don't remember much of either.

There was one victory against Indiana while Foster was coach.

 

[NJCat83588]

There was one victory against Indiana while Foster was coach.

Yes, but it was at McGaw Hall, not in Bloomington at Assembly Hall.....

 

[NURoseBowl]

EE was 2nd team (Elton Brand was 1st). Esch was 19 and 10 guy in his 6th season. Can you imagine if Olah could do that next year...

CCF, I think that 19 & 10 is a bit much. Is there anyone here, though, who doesn't see Olah coming in with a senior season of about 14-15 PPG & 7-8 RPG?

 

[hdhntr1]

Yes, but it was at McGaw Hall, not in Bloomington at Assembly Hall.....

It was already established that we had not won in Assemble hall so it was a question on NU victories

 

[Sec.112]

Is there anyone here, though, who doesn't see Olah coming in with a senior season of about 14-15 PPG & 7-8 RPG?

It depends on how good JVZ is.

If I believe the always-reliable summer scouting reports, I could see Olah losing a few minutes here and there to JVZ. And if Olah's game doesn't improve ...?

This is not the scenario I expect. OTOH, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Walker Fan]

Interesting topic about whether we need a star player. I think the better question is whether we have a go to guy at the end of the game. Tre Demps is an obvious answer. McIntosh had the ball in his hands on a couple of occasions and missed a bank shot against UM and at least had the ball in his hand in one of the other close games, so he gained some valuable experience last season. I think he learned from these experiences. Vic Law came on at the end of the season and hit some key shots when his form improved on his jump shot in the Ws at Minnesota and Indiana. Also, Olah made some key buckets in the win v. UM and at the end of the season. So yes, these four players might not be star or future NBA first rounders, but they all might be capable of hitting winning shots at the end of games. If you look closely at last year's tight losses, at UM, at MSU, at Md., OSU, Illinois at home, these games came down to one play or one shot that was not converted or one defensive stop. Hopefully, a year of experience and development for these top 4 players (McIntosh, Demps, Law and Olah) will allow them to win those tight games. And maybe some others off the bench hit key shots like Tap did against Iowa or Lindsey or maybe Falzon and we get over the hump in these tight games. The potential is there.

 

[Sec.112]

McIntosh had the ball in his hands on a couple of occasions and missed a bank shot against UM and at least had the ball in his hand in one of the other close games, so he gained some valuable experience last season. I think he learned from these experiences.

I think one of the less-talked-about topics last year was BMac at the end of tight games. There were several instances where he - shall we say - tried to do too much at crucial times down the stretch.

But he was a freshman without a lot of options. Just something to watch.

 

[DaCat]

I think a lot of folks forget how good Kevin Coble was. If he didn't have his foot injury his senior year I believe the Cats would've gone dancing that year.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

I think a lot of folks forget how good Kevin Coble was. If he didn't have his foot injury his senior year I believe the Cats would've gone dancing that year.

Yeah, some tend to forget how he the capability go off and takeover games (MSU '09, IU '08). If he stayed healthy/not had controversy surround his departure, he could have been right up there with Shurna.