Growing more disgusted about facilities

[Sec.112]

Neither (An upgrade or a tear down of Ryan Field or WR) will happen in the next 10 years IMHO.

NJCat, I hope you don't mind that I piggyback your comment from the football board because I couldn't agree with you more.

It's becoming CLEARLY evident that some form of an upgraded basketball facility is nowhere in the near future.

Gee, who could have seen that coming?

Let me try to keep this simple. Am I the only one who is driven BONKERS by the effect this is going to have on basketball?

 

[Medill90]

I think NU is a couple years away from Collins having the basketball team at a more competitive level than football. NU basketball is going to become a "thing", you won't be able to get into a home game and the recruits will be a standard deviation above the current roster.

Collins will line up his own support for facilities. If NU shoots it down or delays, Collins will go to the pros or another elite program.

 

[Catreporter]

I love Chris and what he is doing with recruiting but BT basketball is a tough nut to crack. Northwestern football has already proven itself over the last two decades. We beat Notre Dame, Penn St and Wisconsin in a down year last year. There were NO comparable wins for basketball. Fitz still seems to be recruiting well. I think just duplicating football's success will be a big challenge.

 

[NJCat83588]

NJCat, I hope you don't mind that I piggyback your comment from the football board because I couldn't agree with you more.

It's becoming CLEARLY evident that some form of an upgraded basketball facility is nowhere in the near future.

Gee, who could have seen that coming?

Let me try to keep this simple. Am I the only one who is driven BONKERS by the effect this is going to have on basketball?

The reality is, NU is spending a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS on the current facilities plan. A new basketball arena would cost plenty, say on the order of another $150 million. It just isn't feasible to line up enough dough on the heels of Taj Fitz. And I doubt Ryan field will ever be replaced unless it becomes structurally condemned. McGaw Hall sucks, but Collins and successor will have to live with it until big dollar donors can reopen the vaults next decade.

 

[Gladeskat]

Going to NU football and basketball games is like taking a time machine back to the 1930's.

 

[Sec.112]

The reality is, NU is spending a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS on the current facilities plan. A new basketball arena would cost plenty, say on the order of another $150 million. It just isn't feasible to line up enough dough on the heels of Taj Fitz.

I'm not disagreeing with you on those points at all. I said it the day after the Lakefront Facility announcement. It's not only athletics capital spending. There's a lot of money going going into a many buildings on campus. I'm sure the capital money will be dry for many departments.

For those going out of their way to string up Phillips, let me help them. I generally like what he has done, but in this case, he put all his eggs in one basket for the Allen Iverson Memorial PRACTICE Facility.

For roughly half the cost, he could've had shovels in the ground much more quickly for his other revenue sport - one that has a FAR greater need and much more room for improvement.

Medill, your scenario is the one NU should consider planning for now. If CC gets the team in the tournament in the next five years, you can bet the house his next negotiation will include a new facility.

If he loses consistently, start lining up the assistant coaches because no one with experience will walk into those facilities.

 

[NJCat83588]

For roughly half the cost, he could've had shovels in the ground much more quickly for his other revenue sport - one that has a FAR greater need and much more room for improvement.
.

Like it or not, football is king when it comes to revenue. NU is doubling down to remain (or return to) relevant in football. All the hype NU will eventually get for making the NCAA will be nothing compared to the publicity the Cats got in 1995 when they went to the Rose Bowl. And no one is talking about NU winning the Big 10 basketball tournament, just finishing in the top 6 or 7 to get to the tournament. Football killed the Big East conference, and football will cause the Power 5 conferences to split from the NCAA. NU wants to remain a part of that diniero.

 

[NUCat320]

I love Chris and what he is doing with recruiting but BT basketball is a tough nut to crack. Northwestern football has already proven itself over the last two decades. We beat Notre Dame, Penn St and Wisconsin in a down year last year. There were NO comparable wins for basketball. Fitz still seems to be recruiting well. I think just duplicating football's success will be a big challenge.

Fitz has seemed to be recruiting well for the past eight years. He can't seem to get kids to be any better as seniors than they were as freshmen. I think NU basketball will be ahead of NU football soon - perhaps as soon as next year, definitely by the time Vic and Mac are seniors.

 

[lunker35]

I love going to games at Welsh Ryan. I think the score boards make a huge difference and outside or replacing the bench seating I am not sure what else I'd do. It's a great big game atmosphere when the students decide to show up and who cares about concessions when you're in and out in 2 hours. Building a new stadium would be an epic waste of money and resources when what we have would be considered a gem if we actually won.

 

[DaCat]

I love going to games at Welsh Ryan. I think the score boards make a huge difference and outside or replacing the bench seating I am not sure what else I'd do. It's a great big game atmosphere when the students decide to show up and who cares about concessions when you're in and out in 2 hours. Building a new stadium would be an epic waste of money and resources when what we have would be considered a gem if we actually won.

I agree with this post. The upgraded scoreboards bought us time and Collins has actually said he likes the throw back WR atmosphere. Cameron at Duke is also kind of a dump and that didn't hold them back too much.

 

[Walker Fan]

I think the basketball arena can be renovated or rebuilt for way under $150 million. Loyola's Joe Gentille Basketball Arena was done (maybe went through significant renovations) for less than $10 million in 2011. What is Illinois paying for its renovations right now? I don't think it is $150 million. A basketball arena is a lot less expensive than building a football stadium.

As for comparing the state of the football program versus the basketball program, I do not think the football program is way ahead of the basketball program in light of the past two football seasons of 5-7 records and no bowl games. This year for football does not look promising as NU appears to be starting a redshirt frosh QB, key WRs getting injured (Christian Jones) and our WRs are weak to begin with, a reconstructed offensive line with a number of positions wide open with no clear starters, a poor set of defensive tackles and a lot of key defensive players graduating in Ibrahim Campbell, Chi Chi Ariguzo and Jimmy Hall. Unfortunately, I think another non-bowl season is a distinct possibility.

Back to facilities, yes, it needs to happen with basketball eventually. But schools have succeeded without amazing facilities. There once was a school who became the most powerful team in the nation without amazing facilities. I could be talking about Coach K and Duke, but I am referring to John Wooden and UCLA who won a number of national titles before Pauley Pavilion was built.

 

[Walker Fan]

Bottom line. Success in college sports is about getting a good coach and have an administration who supports the coach who can attract talent. See Gary Barnett in 1990s and bringing in talent who can turn around a program.

 

[Styre]

I agree with this post. The upgraded scoreboards bought us time and Collins has actually said he likes the throw back WR atmosphere. Cameron at Duke is also kind of a dump and that didn't hold them back too much.

Have you seen Duke's other facilities?

As far as recruiting goes, the stadium itself isn't as important as the practice facilities, training facilities, locker rooms, etc., all of which have been neglected at NU, especially for the basketball team. Improve all of that and you can get away with having an older arena.

(Although -- what "throw back" atmosphere? Throw back to what? We've always been terrible.)

 

[DaCat]

Throw back as in 1950s high school gym LOL. Collins must like that atmosphere.

 

[NJCat83588]

I think the basketball arena can be renovated or rebuilt for way under $150 million. Loyola's Joe Gentille Basketball Arena was done (maybe went through significant renovations) for less than $10 million in 2011. What is Illinois paying for its renovations right now? I don't think it is $150 million. A basketball arena is a lot less expensive than building a football stadium.
.

The Assembly Hall renovation budget is in fact $157 Million:

"The University of Illinois projects the costs of the renovation to total approximately $157 million, financed by a bond sale that concluded earlier this year. An additional $95 million dollars has been raised through donations and fundraising for the project is ongoing.9Demonstrating their support for the continued use of Assembly Hall, University students approved a referendum to raise student fees on a per-semester basis to help cover the cost of renovating the arena.10 "

http://docomomo-us.org/news/univers...m_center_renovation_a_midcentury_“flying_saucer”

The New DePaul Arena is budgeted at $173M. Whether it is $100M or $150M it is a lot of money. NU neglected athletic facilities for decades and is playing catch-up. McGaw Hall was constructed as a multi-purpose barn 63 years ago and is by far the worst designed facility in Power 5 basketball. Some day it will need to be razed and a purpose-built basketball arena constructed.

Many draw the comparison to Cameron Indoor. It is also old and in some respects antiquated. But what separates it from McGaw is that it is a purpose-built basketball arena. It looks the part or a retro-hoops court. Any comparison with McGaw is just plain silly in my view.

 

[DaCat]

If you're correct then Collins must be silly.

 

[NJCat83588]

If you're correct then Collins must be silly.

Methinks Chris Collins is way too smart and savvy to crap all over his current facilities. If you think he honestly believes McGaw Hall is competitive, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.................

 

[DaCat]

The point is that Collins himself made the comparison between WR and Cameron.

 

[NJCat83588]

The point is that Collins himself made the comparison between WR and Cameron.

I understand that. I just doubt Chris is being completely honest publicly. Do you honestly expect him to say "our arena is outdated and needs to be replaced"? Geez.

 

[Sec.112]

Have you seen Duke's other facilities?

If I understand Styre correctly, let me help emphasize his point about how state-of-the-art Duke's practice facilities are.

http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?SPSID=27977&SPID=2183&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&PALBID=16734

That's in addition to this building that houses the offices and locker rooms.

http://www.architect.duke.edu/architecture/buildings 1991-present/schwartz.html

Anyone who wants to talk about Cameron vs. the Welsh doesn't understand how Duke positions its facilities.

Now don't get me wrong: NU doesn't have the Duke money or the history to try to equal such a facility, but they need to work in the ballpark of something - let's just call it - relevant. At this point, I don't care whether they do it for the practice facility or game-day arena.

And maybe someone will actually care to get it done before 2025.

 

[DaCat]

I understand that. I just doubt Chris is being completely honest publicly. Do you honestly expect him to say "our arena is outdated and needs to be replaced"? Geez.

We all know our basketball facilities are subpar. Collins has chosen to take one step at a time, at least publicly, as he realizes Rome wasn't built in a day and the first priority currently is obviously football. The upgraded scoreboards and displays bought some time. I would not be surprised if he is privately lobbying for upgraded facilities or a new stadium.

By the way I got my Masters at Duke so I am a little familiar with their facilities.

 

[Gladeskat]

Bottom line. Success in college sports is about getting a good coach and have an administration who supports the coach who can attract talent. See Gary Barnett in 1990s and bringing in talent who can turn around a program.

I agree with this, but Barnett and the 95 season is a one in a lifetime miracle considering the state of our program and facilities at that time. You may have to wait 40 or more years for a comparable performance. The way you retain a great coach is to move forward with improvements to facilities that make his job a bit easier with recruiting. Once you succeed, you need to show the next wave of kids that NU is a special place and cares about them. Recruiting shouldn't be so embarrassing all the time for our coaches.

 

[Gladeskat]

If you're correct then Collins must be silly.

What's wrong with you? Are you embracing the archaic dump that has been our NU basketball facilities since the 1960's? Keep Welsh-Ryan if you like that WWII warehouse look, but make every effort to upgrade the practice and locker room facilities and amenities for the fans. There was nothing that said "we don't care about you and your sport" when I was there than Welsh-Ryan arena (except for the weight room at Patten gym!!!), with its curtains and dirt floor and whatever. It looked like someplace homeless people would hang out in. Probably a few did.

NU had nightmare facilities when I was there...and aside from improvements to the football program, they haven't improved to keep up with even MAC schools, let alone Big Ten teams.

 

[Gladeskat]

We all know our basketball facilities are subpar. Collins has chosen to take one step at a time, at least publicly, as he realizes Rome wasn't built in a day and the first priority currently is obviously football. The upgraded scoreboards and displays bought some time. I would not be surprised if he is privately lobbying for upgraded facilities or a new stadium.

By the way I got my Masters at Duke so I am a little familiar with their facilities.

Oh, and keep that hush hush around me. please. Duke may have a fine grad program, but I have little respect for universities that blatantly whore themselves out to polluting industries to make a buck for themselves. Duke must have a sweet tooth the way they blew Big Sugar for decades!

 

[DaCat]

What's wrong with you? Are you embracing the archaic dump that has been our NU basketball facilities since the 1960's? Keep Welsh-Ryan if you like that WWII warehouse look, but make every effort to upgrade the practice and locker room facilities and amenities for the fans. There was nothing that said "we don't care about you and your sport" when I was there than Welsh-Ryan arena (except for the weight room at Patten gym!!!), with its curtains and dirt floor and whatever. It looked like someplace homeless people would hang out in. Probably a few did.

NU had nightmare facilities when I was there...and aside from improvements to the football program, they haven't improved to keep up with even MAC schools, let alone Big Ten teams.

Look, I want new facilities for our basketball program as much as the next guy. Until we get them we kind of have to make do with what we have. People have their panties in a tight knot over this topic so I should probably not egg them on. I get the sense that the facilities honeymoon period for Collins still has a few more years. He knew what they were like before taking this job and at least for now does not appear to make it an issue.

 

[DaCat]

Duke was a great experience but it lacked the home feel of Northwestern. It kind of felt strange not having a huge lake and a major city nearby. Sometimes we had to go to Chapel Hill for a weekend party for crying out loud. The atmosphere at Cameron was amazing but the physical building itself was unimpressive. Of course the successful history of the program creates a whole other aura around the building.

 

[NJCat83588]

If I understand Styre correctly, let me help emphasize his point about how state-of-the-art Duke's practice facilities are.

http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?SPSID=27977&SPID=2183&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&PALBID=16734

.

The biggest selling feature of the Duke facilities: The National Championship banners and Olympians!!!

 

[willycat]

If I understand Styre correctly, let me help emphasize his point about how state-of-the-art Duke's practice facilities are.

http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?SPSID=27977&SPID=2183&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&PALBID=16734

That's in addition to this building that houses the offices and locker rooms.

http://www.architect.duke.edu/architecture/buildings 1991-present/schwartz.html

Anyone who wants to talk about Cameron vs. the Welsh doesn't understand how Duke positions its facilities.

Now don't get me wrong: NU doesn't have the Duke money or the history to try to equal such a facility, but they need to work in the ballpark of something - let's just call it - relevant. At this point, I don't care whether they do it for the practice facility or game-day arena.

And maybe someone will actually care to get it done before 2025.

Just curious 112 but what kind money does Duke have that NU doesn't? Yes they have the winning tradition but NU really missed the opportunity to completely gut the old gym during the last re-do.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Has anyone considered that maybe the school accountant and prez have more say on what we can spend out money on than Phillips?

 

[Sec.112]

I get the sense that the facilities honeymoon period for Collins still has a few more years. He knew what they were like before taking this job and at least for now does not appear to make it an issue.

That's the problem. All of this is not going to go down in "the next few years." If it does, then NU is REALLY in trouble.

Sometime in the next ten years, one of two things is going to happen: a) Collins is either going to win and ask for something relevant, or; b) He's going to lose and they are going to be looking for a coach with this dump.

Are you confident the money will be sitting there in six years, so the place can be built in ten years (being generous)?

And let's hope Phillips/next AD has enough room to say "no" to Fitz if he wins and wants to upgrade Ryan Field in that timespan.

 

[Sec.112]

Just curious 112 but what kind money does Duke have that NU doesn't?

OMG, I'm sure I could spend the next three hours answering this question.

Let me offer the short answer.

a) Does the Duke athletic money go into the school's general fund as it does at NU?

a) Coach K is a master fundraiser. Forget the basketball facilities. There is a community center at Duke named after his wife. And he's on the advisory board of the brain tumor center at Duke. (Hell, even Jay Bilas is on that board.)

If that's what he does for outside organizations, imagine how much he brings into the athletic department. There's a reason he regularly speaks to CEOs.

(As an aside, did anybody besides me wonder if it was an accident that the glowing 60 Minutes piece on the Duke Brain Cancer Center appeared on the first week of the tournament?)

b) How many NBA players are giving back to Duke?

c) I"m pretty sure Duke basketball has its own endowment.

d) Want to compare the Duke's Nike contract to NU's Under Armor contract?

That's off the top of my head. I'll be extremely conservative and say there's $40 million right there.

 

[NUcats11]

Not to mention (e) they generate much more off ticket sales and apparel than NU.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Has anyone considered that maybe the school accountant and prez have more say on what we can spend out money on than Phillips?

yep - most athletic departments operate as separate entities outside of the university. not at NU.

 

[willycat]

OMG, I'm sure I could spend the next three hours answering this question.

Let me offer the short answer.

a) Does the Duke athletic money go into the school's general fund as it does at NU?

a) Coach K is a master fundraiser. Forget the basketball facilities. There is a community center at Duke named after his wife. And he's on the advisory board of the brain tumor center at Duke. (Hell, even Jay Bilas is on that board.)

If that's what he does for outside organizations, imagine how much he brings into the athletic department. There's a reason he regularly speaks to CEOs.

(As an aside, did anybody besides me wonder if it was an accident that the glowing 60 Minutes piece on the Duke Brain Cancer Center appeared on the first week of the tournament?)

b) How many NBA players are giving back to Duke?

c) I"m pretty sure Duke basketball has its own endowment.

d) Want to compare the Duke's Nike contract to NU's Under Armor contract?

That's off the top of my head. I'll be extremely conservative and say there's $40 million right there.

Thanks 112. The one that really, really burns me is that the money generated by the NU athletic teams goes into a general fund. I just wanted to see some of this in black and white.

 

[Mr. Stupor]

I understand that. I just doubt Chris is being completely honest publicly. Do you honestly expect him to say "our arena is outdated and needs to be replaced"? Geez.

So you're calling Collins a liar based on nothing but the need for him to be for your argument to hold together?

 

[Styre]

So you're calling Collins a liar based on nothing but the need for him to be for your argument to hold together?

You know that coaches lie all the time, right? It's not like it's impugning his character to suggest that he's being diplomatic when he talks about the facilities.

 

[Gladeskat]

You know that coaches lie all the time, right? It's not like it's impugning his character to suggest that he's being diplomatic when he talks about the facilities.

But this gives Stupor an opportunity to rip someone for making a reasonable speculative remark. The flip side is Collins doesn't want any changes and thinks W-R is the finest basketball venue in the Big Ten. Taking it further, Wisconsin and other schools with recent renovations to their BB arenas should tear down their relatively new arenas and look into some solid 1940's airport hanger architecture for their next fieldhouse. Maybe they can go full retro-chic and have bench seats and a dirt floor, too.

 

[NJCat83588]

But this gives Stupor an opportunity to rip someone for making a reasonable speculative remark. The flip side is Collins doesn't want any changes and thinks W-R is the finest basketball venue in the Big Ten. Taking it further, Wisconsin and other schools with recent renovations to their BB arenas should tear down their relatively new arenas and look into some solid 1940's airport hanger architecture for their next fieldhouse. Maybe they can go full retro-chic and have bench seats and a dirt floor, too.

Brilliant!

McGaw Hall was unique in my undergrad days. The dust cloud that would form from people walking into the arena made it feel sort of like those old boxing arenas with their clouds of cigarette smoke.

 

[Mr. Stupor]

You know that coaches lie all the time, right? It's not like it's impugning his character to suggest that he's being diplomatic when he talks about the facilities.

are you freaking kidding? First of all, coaches tell the truth way more often than they lie, so how do you know he's lyng? Second, presuming a lie to support your rhetoric is a pretty pathetic rhetorical method. Third, you can remember this the next time you get into a debate and somebody trots out all sorts of easily disprovable evidence in support of their position and then just says "ha ha, I was just lying". There is such a thing as truth.

 

[Mr. Stupor]

But this gives Stupor an opportunity to rip someone for making a reasonable speculative remark. The flip side is Collins doesn't want any changes and thinks W-R is the finest basketball venue in the Big Ten. Taking it further, Wisconsin and other schools with recent renovations to their BB arenas should tear down their relatively new arenas and look into some solid 1940's airport hanger architecture for their next fieldhouse. Maybe they can go full retro-chic and have bench seats and a dirt floor, too.

You call that a "rip"? Your standards have really taken a slide of late. That was what most folks call a pointed question.