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Not to be a pessimist

Part of the excitement is that CC has built a DEEP squad for seemingly the first time in modern history, so perhaps injuries won't be quite as damaging.
 
Part of the excitement is that CC has built a DEEP squad for seemingly the first time in modern history, so perhaps injuries won't be quite as damaging.

Agree. Top to bottom depth unlike any NU team I have seen since I started following them in 1974. You could arbitrarily say either Sanjay or Tap are the 12th best player on the squad and they definitely belong in the Big 10.
 
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NU now has 10 recruits over the past three recruiting years. 2 Cs - Pardon and Benson; 2 PFs - Skelly, Falzon; 2 SFs - Law and Rapolas; 4 Gs - McIntosh, Lindsey, Brown and Ash. That is the most balanced roster NU has had. Collins has done a great job reconstructing the roster. Some people had tried to downplay NU's recruiting success is that NU does not have the recruiting success of MSU, OSU, UM and Md. The difference is those schools will lose a number of their players early.
 
I've been here before. When does the snake bite happen this time?
I suppose if you think of it that way, the lack of snake bite will result in a trip to the dance. At some point success will be the anti venom.
 
Snake bite?!?! Never!! Not at NU!! And especially not with six players mentioned above that most of us have never seen play for one minute. I'm sure all will be rock-solid players.

By the way, did I ever tell you the tale of Kyle Rowley?

Seriously, the fellas above have a good point: there is some very unNU-like depth with this group. It's going to be interesting to see who plays to their hype.
 
Snake bite?!?! Never!! Not at NU!! And especially not with six players mentioned above that most of us have never seen play for one minute. I'm sure all will be rock-solid players.

By the way, did I ever tell you the tale of Kyle Rowley?

Seriously, the fellas above have a good point: there is some very unNU-like depth with this group. It's going to be interesting to see who plays to their hype.
I think that depth is the key. You don't need 7 guys to be stars. You need one or two and then a bunch of solid role players around them. Sometimes we've had a star. Sometimes we've had 1.5 to 2 star players. But we never had the other guys to help them out. Now we have a chance to go 8 deep (or more) with quality players and a greater chance of having 2 bona fide stars. I think Vic and Mac are already on their way to being stars.
 
NU now has 10 recruits over the past three recruiting years. 2 Cs - Pardon and Benson; 2 PFs - Skelly, Falzon; 2 SFs - Law and Rapolas; 4 Gs - McIntosh, Lindsey, Brown and Ash. That is the most balanced roster NU has had. Collins has done a great job reconstructing the roster. Some people had tried to downplay NU's recruiting success is that NU does not have the recruiting success of MSU, OSU, UM and Md. The difference is those schools will lose a number of their players early.

CC and staff are nailing the recruiting. Not only that, this team is going to be very competitive this year which will help the recruiting even more. In fact, I believe we will make the Big Dance this year, snake bites be damned. **knock on wood** I'm not taking the snake bites lightly, by the way, I've been disappointed too much as a long term Cats fan, but the only way to overcome the incredibly bad luck this program has had is by building depth as already mentioned, and so far we are looking good based on the recruiting success. We just need to get it done on the court.
 
Snake bite?!?! Never!! Not at NU!! And especially not with six players mentioned above that most of us have never seen play for one minute. I'm sure all will be rock-solid players.

By the way, did I ever tell you the tale of Kyle Rowley?

Seriously, the fellas above have a good point: there is some very unNU-like depth with this group. It's going to be interesting to see who plays to their hype.

Beat me to the Rowley comparison. Cautionary tale of big men in particular. We've had so many peak their freshman year or never develop at all. It will be interesting to see if people will be patient if/when Benson struggles his first season.

Not all of these guys will reach their potential, but the key is we have a lot of raffle tickets.
 
Beat me to the Rowley comparison. Cautionary tale of big men in particular. We've had so many peak their freshman year or never develop at all. It will be interesting to see if people will be patient if/when Benson struggles his first season.

Not all of these guys will reach their potential, but the key is we have a lot of raffle tickets.

Please. There is NO comparison with Kyle. Barret may well struggle his first season, but his upside is far higher than was Rowley's.
 
Why is there no comparison with Rowley? He had better offers than Benson.
I think its fair to hesitate on proclaiming any of these guys as saviors. I think the Rowley lesson is apt. However, the difference now is that we have multiple classes full of potential break-out stars instead of having to put our eggs in mainly one basket. One of these guys will be a star if not more. If none of them pan out, then that would truly be a major disappointment. But no reason to be pessimistic now.
 
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Why is there no comparison with Rowley? He had better offers than Benson.

Rowley is flat out bigger than Benson. His kind of size is always going to attract attention. But one of Rowley's biggest issues while at NU was his hands - he never seemed to be comfortable handling the ball. Deftness with the ball and around the rim, say the scouts, is one of Benson's top attributes. If that bears out, it's a pretty significant difference.
 
Fair to say, we have seen some impressive big-man development from Coach Collins that may render expectations of freshman "peaking" incorrect.
 
I do not remember Rowley very well but Benson comes from an athletic pedigree with his dad playing for Purdue football and then playing a couple of years in the NFL. From all the reports that I have read, Benson has good hands and good feet. If that is the case then puts him leaps and bounds ahead of Rowley. From my memory, Eschmeyer was one of Bill Foster's last recruits and was ranked at around No. 90-100. So if my memory is correct about Esch, Benson's ranking of No. 108-120 is more comparable to Eschmeyer but without the injury history of Eschmeyer. So there is more reason of optimism than pessimism about Benson.
 
Actually Eschmeyer was a top 50 recruit per Athlon. We have never had a recruit since that was anywhere as highly regarded, including during the Collins era. I predict that ends next year on the heels of our NCAA run.
 
I don't know how many folks here have watched any videos of Benson. He does seem to have good hands, but he lacks hops and quickness, and has a tendency to play smaller than his height. Consequently, he has had trouble lately with other big centers. He has trouble guarding quicker big men. Instead of extending his arms when shooting, he shoots from a lower hand position and is easy to block. He does try to keep the ball up high upon rebounding rather than bring it down to his waist, which is a fault of many centers.

He certainly is a legit center recruit, but from what I've seen, he's much like Alex Olah, i.e., someone who will need a lot of work to develop effective offensive moves and become an assertive, physical center. There is no guarantee he will develop the way Olah has, but we know we have the coaches who can bring about good development. Olah's improvement has been excellent. I hope Benson is at least 6'10" in height. Height has been Olah's greatest attribute and has enabled him to overcome other shortcomings.

Some centers develop and adjust to the college game, others, including many 4-star guys, never seem to get the hang of playing the college game. Guys like Woodbury, Egwu, Morgan (Mr. Basketball for Ohio), and other Big Ten centers come to mind. Olah has been a remarkable exception.
 
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^ Ha, you beat me to it.

Was going to post the same thing - that BB's game reminds me of Olah.

BB is not particularly athletic (a little better hops than Olah, but that isn't saying much, esp. since Olah is bigger), but supposedly has soft hands, good footwork (which does not = quick feet) and good passing ability for a 5.

The latest report is that BB has lost about 10 lbs (now around 230-235 lbs - hmmm, doesn't that sound familiar?) so that he can run the court and move around the paint (on D) better, but it seems that he may indeed be 6-10 and not 6-9.

Seems like his game will be reliant on fundamentals, getting stronger (to work in the paint) and his shooting touch (supposedly has a decent mid-range touch, but as we know, most bigs need to keep working on their shot).

BB probably is ahead of where Olah was at the same juncture - being able to run the court better (in part to being smaller/lighter) and having played against tougher competition, but seems to be in the same mold of needing polish and experience (which is the case for the majority of centers coming out of HS).

A different type of center from Pardon, who while no JVZ, is more prone to be the big throwing down an alley-oop.

But at the same time, if BB develops at a similar rate that Olah has thus far, could end up being a better Olah, which is not a bad thing at all.

Makes for a duo at center w/ diff. attributes which gives CC and Co. flexibility (here's hoping that Pardon is 80-85% the player that Sullinger was for dOSU).
 
^ Ha, you beat me to it.

Was going to post the same thing - that BB's game reminds me of Olah.

BB is not particularly athletic (a little better hops than Olah, but that isn't saying much, esp. since Olah is bigger), but supposedly has soft hands, good footwork (which does not = quick feet) and good passing ability for a 5.

The latest report is that BB has lost about 10 lbs (now around 230-235 lbs - hmmm, doesn't that sound familiar?) so that he can run the court and move around the paint (on D) better, but it seems that he may indeed be 6-10 and not 6-9.

Seems like his game will be reliant on fundamentals, getting stronger (to work in the paint) and his shooting touch (supposedly has a decent mid-range touch, but as we know, most bigs need to keep working on their shot).

BB probably is ahead of where Olah was at the same juncture - being able to run the court better (in part to being smaller/lighter) and having played against tougher competition, but seems to be in the same mold of needing polish and experience (which is the case for the majority of centers coming out of HS).

A different type of center from Pardon, who while no JVZ, is more prone to be the big throwing down an alley-oop.

But at the same time, if BB develops at a similar rate that Olah has thus far, could end up being a better Olah, which is not a bad thing at all.

Makes for a duo at center w/ diff. attributes which gives CC and Co. flexibility (here's hoping that Pardon is 80-85% the player that Sullinger was for dOSU).
I think you guys are being overly picky. There aren't many guys in the 6'10" and above range that are quick, athletic and polished before their senior year of high school. The few guys that are like that end up being drafted in the lottery after their freshman year.
 
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"OK - maybe Pardon doesn't have the size of a traditional 5, but there have been plenty of good centers under 6-10 playing the position (seem to recall a certain dOSU center who provided heartbreak for NU fans despite only being 6-8)"

What's with all the comparisons between Pardon and Sullinger Katatonic? Is there anything to suggest similarities except similar heights and Ohio? Pardon seems like a run the floor, protect the rim style big, and Sullinger was a behemoth post player who scored huge amounts below the rim
 
I think you guys are being overly picky. There aren't many guys in the 6'10" and above range that are quick, athletic and polished before their senior year of high school. The few guys that are like that end up being drafted in the lottery after their freshman year.

Perfect. You nailed it. Now we are getting picky about the 4* players who commit. Geez, just can't please some people! Let's see the young man play in purple for a few years before declaring him the second coming of Kyle Rowley!
 
Please. There is NO comparison with Kyle. Barret may well struggle his first season, but his upside is far higher than was Rowley's.
My memory is the board was over the moon when Rowley committed so to that degree they do compare however that is neither player's fault. Rowley's recruitment was much more publicized as BB seems to be a more private person. So there was more build up when Rowley committed. We really built up Rowley into a Goliath who would crush all opposition. That is my memory of it.
 
My memory is the board was over the moon when Rowley committed so to that degree they do compare however that is neither player's fault. Rowley's recruitment was much more publicized as BB seems to be a more private person. So there was more build up when Rowley committed. We really built up Rowley into a Goliath who would crush all opposition. That is my memory of it.
Think the over hype expressed by many board members was because NU at that time just wasn't able to recruit "bigs".
 
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Perfect. You nailed it. Now we are getting picky about the 4* players who commit. Geez, just can't please some people! Let's see the young man play in purple for a few years before declaring him the second coming of Kyle Rowley!

NU fans have a habit of looking at star ratings and projecting all kinds of future glory (or dead-panning a recruit) for that player and our program. They build these guys up to be superathletes before they ever set foot on campus, creating all kinds of high expectations and unnecessary pressure on kids to perform. When they don't pan out, they're labeled busts for no fault of the player. All I'm doing is countering the hype that is being tossed around right now ("He's a top 100 player!!!! We're going to the Sweet 16!!!") with a dose of reality so that folks don't call him a bust if he's not the second coming of Kareem Jabbar after a few years in the program.
 
Think the over hype expressed by many board members was because NU at that time just wasn't able to recruit "bigs".

Right on. Going back to 2002 in the Rivals database, NU signed exactly 3 "bigs": zero-star Vince Scott in 2003, 2* Davide Curletti in 2008, and 3* Kyle Rowley in the same class. Kyle was the final commit in the class, almost a year after one of the all-time NU greats, John Shurna, committed to the class.
 
NU fans have a habit of looking at star ratings and projecting all kinds of future glory (or dead-panning a recruit) for that player and our program. They build these guys up to be superathletes before they ever set foot on campus, creating all kinds of high expectations and unnecessary pressure on kids to perform. When they don't pan out, they're labeled busts for no fault of the player. All I'm doing is countering the hype that is being tossed around right now ("He's a top 100 player!!!! We're going to the Sweet 16!!!") with a dose of reality so that folks don't call him a bust if he's not the second coming of Kareem Jabbar after a few years in the program.

Stars are for losers. These players pass the eyeball test from their videos. Whether or not that translates to W's remains to be seen.
 
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Stars are for losers. These players pass the eyeball test from their videos. Whether or not that translates to W's remains to be seen.

Well, both BB and Olah didn't exactly pass my eyeball test for B1G readiness with flying colors after watching their videos. Benson is a decent player, but he, like Olah before him, will need some time and considerable coaching before he can play effectively in the Big Ten. Fans need to be patient as he develops.
 
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Well, both BB and Olah didn't exactly pass my eyeball test for B1G readiness with flying colors after watching their videos. Benson is a decent player, but he, like Olah before him, will need some time and considerable coaching before he can play effectively in the Big Ten. Fans need to be patient as he develops.

I agree that it will take time to develop. Even Haas at Purdue looked raw last year and he was much higher rated than Barret.
 
I agree that it will take time to develop. Even Haas at Purdue looked raw last year and he was much higher rated than Barret.

Haas passed my college-ready eyeball test with flying colors, yet even he struggled at times last year. He is going to be awesome in the next year or two.
 
Right on. Going back to 2002 in the Rivals database, NU signed exactly 3 "bigs": zero-star Vince Scott in 2003, 2* Davide Curletti in 2008, and 3* Kyle Rowley in the same class. Kyle was the final commit in the class, almost a year after one of the all-time NU greats, John Shurna, committed to the class.
Wasn't Luka in that class as well? Wasn't he 6'10" and doesn't that count as a big?
 
Well, both BB and Olah didn't exactly pass my eyeball test for B1G readiness with flying colors after watching their videos. Benson is a decent player, but he, like Olah before him, will need some time and considerable coaching before he can play effectively in the Big Ten. Fans need to be patient as he develops.
Interesting that Olah is now rated as a 3 star. As I recall he was always rated as a zero or 2 star. In general, it seems that the 6'10 and above centers tend to take longer to develop than any other position. Sort of have to grow into the body. The guys that are ready to play as Frosh are pretty limited. WIS generally did a pretty good ob in developing them. Olah is in that old Wis type mold. Since the group we have now seems to be good at developing this type of player, makes you wonder if they could have done better with Rowley than was done.
 
Since the group we have now seems to be good at developing this type of player, makes you wonder if they could have done better with Rowley than was done.

The staff at St. Mary's didn't have any more success with Kyle than did the NU staff............
 
Wasn't Luka in that class as well? Wasn't he 6'10" and doesn't that count as a big?

Yes, sorry, I was looking for Centers. Luka was a 3* PF coming in but obviously played Center for NU. Sorry for the confusion.
 
I don't know how many folks here have watched any videos of Benson. He does seem to have good hands, but he lacks hops and quickness, and has a tendency to play smaller than his height. Consequently, he has had trouble lately with other big centers. He has trouble guarding quicker big men. Instead of extending his arms when shooting, he shoots from a lower hand position and is easy to block. He does try to keep the ball up high upon rebounding rather than bring it down to his waist, which is a fault of many centers.

He certainly is a legit center recruit, but from what I've seen, he's much like Alex Olah, i.e., someone who will need a lot of work to develop effective offensive moves and become an assertive, physical center. There is no guarantee he will develop the way Olah has, but we know we have the coaches who can bring about good development. Olah's improvement has been excellent. I hope Benson is at least 6'10" in height. Height has been Olah's greatest attribute and has enabled him to overcome other shortcomings.

Some centers develop and adjust to the college game, others, including many 4-star guys, never seem to get the hang of playing the college game. Guys like Woodbury, Egwu, Morgan (Mr. Basketball for Ohio), and other Big Ten centers come to mind. Olah has been a remarkable exception.

I agree as well. I think Benson is a slightly smaller, hopefully more athletic Olah. Olah is tall and wide and his overall size has helped him overcome his lack of explosiveness. It's hard to get around him and over him. Benson is not as tall or as wide but seems more skilled and is certainly more experienced than Olah was at that age. And I also agree that we need to be patient with Benson. Even if he works hard and develops quickly, there are likely going to be a lot of ups and downs. Even last year, Olah had dominant games followed by some games where he struggled. I ready a report from one of the spring AAU tournaments that said Benson had one good game in 3 but that he has all the tools necessary to very good. He just needs to learn how to use them and needs to be consistently aggressive. Very few big men are dominant all the time. And they tend to be the focus of more criticism because they play closer to the basket and their mistakes are magnified (how did he miss that shot? how did he not box that guy out?, etc.). It's kind of the opposite of football where the guys playing farthest from the line of scrimmage on defense tend to get the most scrutiny.
 
The staff at St. Mary's didn't have any more success with Kyle than did the NU staff............
And did you ever hear of that group being able to develop bigs? The group we have here now has done a good job with Olah. THe group at WI has done a good job with a number. The guys we had here under BC never showed that they could develop a big. St. Mary's , I do not know. Rowley was a project and needed a staff that could handle that. We did not have one here. It seems we do now. So the question is, could the current staff have done a better job with him?
 
Are you serious? How dare you!! You're Mr. Negative. Quit hating on him.... :)

Well, it's more of a problem if you're a big man playing against other big men in close proximity under the basket rather than a point guard like BMac or Sobo. I suspect he'll correct his shooting quickly once he gets to college and finds all he's doing is eating Rawlings sandwiches.
 
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