RE-Handicapping 2016 (Subtitle: This is just silly)

[gocatsgo2003]

This is the fun part of recruiting, when a staff starts to see the long recruiting process start to actually come to fruition. You don't typically expect to land six commitments in less than 48 hours, but there are definitely worse problems to have.

With that, a quick overview of the recent commits and and who might be next... as always, click on the player's name to see their available tape.

Recent Commits

WR Ben Skowronek -- Long, tall guy that can make some plays down the field. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him bulk up and play the Jayme Taylor-type SB role, but should be an effective pass catcher anyway. Always nice to beat out a handful of B1G programs.

OT Gunnar Vogel -- Played last year at 6-5 240 but is now a self-reported 6-6 290. I'm not sure if he could have gotten quite THAT big since last fall, but he's a pretty large kid based on the photos he put up announcing his commitment. He shows signs of being a pretty good OL on his junior tape and I take comfort that our coaches offered him as a tackle after an in-person evaluation. If he can keep decent foot speed and flexibility at his newfound size, he should be a solid OL.

DT Alex Miller -- Flashes the ability to anchor against the run game and use his hands effectively playing against some pretty solid competition, though he will have to get more explosive to be an effective DT at the BCS level. Like Vogel, at least he has some decent size if recent photos are any indication.

ATH/WR Riley Lees -- Definitely the most "off the radar" of recent commitments, the former Miami (OH) commit is a lot of fun to watch on tape. He is a pretty darn dynamic athlete with the ball in his hands and backed up the tape by running in the 4.4s at NU's camp last year. He's pretty clearly playing QB because he's simply the best athlete on his team, though he did spend more time at WR as a sophomore, so catching the ball won't be completely foreign to him. Quite frankly, this is some of my favorite tape of the class so far. Just a lot of fun to watch with the ball in his hands.

QB Aidan Smith -- Though this one was telegraphed pretty strongly, nice to have a QB on board. He shows pretty decent athleticism on his junior film and seems to have much cleaner mechanics in the summer film that is available both on Hudl and on Rivals. With plenty of time to redshirt and develop behind Alviti and Thorson, he could/should turn into a pretty decent QB if he can continue that momentum.

LB Jango Glackin -- More of a Mike/Will type linebacker, he showed flashes of ability on his junior tape and seems to have continued that progress at IMG Academy. Flashes pretty good speed, just might have to put on some size (which is nothing new for high school linebackers). Quite frankly, I thought he was headed to Wisconsin, but glad to have him.

Who Might Be Next

DE Tommy Carnifax -- NU is/was his clear leader heading into his Duke visit, which is set to wrap up on Wednesday. I still think NU is in greatp osition with this rangy, versatile DE that is reminiscent of Tyler Scott on tape even without sharing a hometown.

WR Quayvon Skanes -- Was taking a visit to UConn this weekend, then aiming to get back on campus. I would expect this kid to be a Cat once that visit happens and, honestly, if we can't beat out CMU and UConn for a kid from Chicago... then I don't know. Not good. Fortunately, I suspect that we won't need to have that discussion after he gets back on campus in Evanston with an offer in-hand. Clearly doesn't have the best size, but is fun to watch with the ball in his hands and a dynamic athlete.

Long story short is that I could see NU getting to 13 commitments before the end of the week. At that point, the coaches would probably like to land a Superback (perhaps Ethan Tucky or Brock Miller; Cary Angeline seems like a longshot at this point), a Running Back (Jeremy Larkin and Tre Bryant seem most likely, though I'm also intrigued by Kene Nwangwu; can't completely rule out AJ Taylor, but I haven't seen us mentioned much lately), at least one more DL (perhaps Adam Korutz, Jovan Swann, or Tymir Oliver), at least one more linebacker (Griffin Grady has NU ties, but seems to be taking the process slowly, Paddy Fisher would work), and apparently a punter (Blake Gillikin).

At that point, coaches would probably re-evluate the board to see who would be a "best take" regardless of position. Many/most of the guys above could fit the bill, but we could also re-visit guys like Donald Stewart, Trent Maynard, Will Fries, Sam Heckel, Xander Gagnon, Travis Whillock, Collin Wilder, Patrice Rene, Christian McStravick, Theo Dawson, or any guys who truly stand out at this week's camps. As we have seen this week, the recruiting board can shift quite quickly and we are probably in a position to take 20-22 guys this year, so there's plenty of room.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Lees' tape reminded me a bit of Tommy Fuessel. He's got some crazy legs in him.

 

[Ubermorgen]

Will Fries commits to Penn State tonight.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Will Fries commits to Penn State tonight.

Not surprising.

 

[Turk]

GCG, a lot people still on the board as you noted. Some of which have us as a leader. One thing that can't be denied is that the staff must feel this is it for them if they don't produce, so they have seemed to done a helluva job on the recruiting trail. Gotta give them points for that. Springer especially has brought in some good players this year. Let's get some wins.

 

[Gladeskat]

GCG, a lot people still on the board as you noted. Some of which have us as a leader. One thing that can't be denied is that the staff must feel this is it for them if they don't produce, so they have seemed to done a helluva job on the recruiting trail. Gotta give them points for that. Springer especially has brought in some good players this year. Let's get some wins.

Springer? The guy you wanted to be fired years ago?

 

[Deeringfish]

Springer? The guy you wanted to be fired years ago?

Gosh Glades, your memory is relentless.

 

[Turk]

Springer? The guy you wanted to be fired years ago?

I remain uncomfortable with Springer, but I don't believe I'm biased at all. I think he is an underperforming, on the field, coach and I don't remember him being so great at recruiting either prior to this year. That said, I have never had a problem of giving any coach credit where deserved. And, I'll give Springer points for his recruiting responsibilities of late. Let's hope he can carry it over on the field this year.

 

[Gladeskat]

I remain uncomfortable with Springer, but I don't believe I'm biased at all. I think he is an underperforming, on the field, coach and I don't remember him being so great at recruiting either prior to this year. That said, I have never had a problem of giving any coach credit where deserved. And, I'll give Springer points for his recruiting responsibilities of late. Let's hope he can carry it over on the field this year.

Springer was rated as our best recruiter last year. I pointed it out at that time.

 

[SciCat]

Springer was rated as our best recruiter last year. I pointed it out at that time.

How much of the poor performance of the receivers can be laid at Springer's feet?

 

[IGNORE2]

How much of the poor performance of the receivers can be laid at Springer's feet?

I would suggest most. I would expect Springer to have a heavy say on the inbound receiving recruits - so lack of living up to expectations falls on poor recruiting. Alternatively, those that arrive and slack off yet remain on the team - I would argue indicate poor leadership and unreasonable latitude by the coaches. So, finally, those that arrive as advertised, work hard and do not progress - I would argue is a result of poor development, otherwise known as coaching. (It is hard for the koolaid klan to argue the lack of production falls on the OL or QB, without indicting a different part of the program. Coincidentally, seems we have sent a few QBs into NFL camps over the past few years so...)

I would expect some random injuries, but the body of work should be offset with some real success stories. Every program has injuries - and if we have a recurring number of swarms of injuries at receiver - then I look at the coach and his methodologies, and I look to the strength and conditioning coach. Anomalies are just that - more often, occurrences are not random but attributable.

At the end of the day, we have brought in a variety of talent from a ranking perspective, speed perspective, size and shape. And it has been a long time since the receiver corp produced a single stud. If Prater produces at the NFL level, I think it speaks loudly to the receiver coach at NU. If TS finds success at the next level, I have the same thoughts about the OC, QB coach and head coach.

The purple koolaid klan can jump all over me, but results eliminate the need for excuses. I would rather have the results.

 

[Turk]

How much of the poor performance of the receivers can be laid at Springer's feet?

Certainly not all, but there were undeniable fundamental problems that coaching could or should have corrected. He is getting paid to perform as well. I've watched his group fail our offense miserably for two years in a row and, as a fan, it leaves me with the hope of seeing true freshman or RB's fill the wr positions since my own eyes have seen the entire two deep at WR fail miserably. Sure, I don't know everything, and I do see the talent. I'd use Shuler differently and play him to his strengths, and he would probably be a helluva lot better at WR. And I still think Dickerson may have just had an awful year and still has potential. I mean, Dickerson did look absolutely fantastic on a couple plays last year and if he brings any consistency then he could potentially be solid. He doesn't go down easy but he gotta catch the ball. Probably didn't help him having a broken hand, right? Hopefully, he can rebound. McHugh, Scanlon, have the talent to start on a bad NU team, but if we are going to be a 'Good" NU team then they will simply have to be more consistent. McHugh has potential and makes nice downfield plays but it's good play, bad play with him as well. Consistency could do a lot for this group.

 

[Turk]

Springer was rated as our best recruiter last year. I pointed it out at that time.

Well, our recruiting class last year wasn't something that impressed me. It was all over the map with multiple de-commits that had to be patched up towards the end. That said, Springer only was fully responsible for 2 recruits out of 20, at least on the rivals info page. Please reference for me who rated Springer as our best recruiter last year because most of his guys decommitted and he was only left with nabbing 2 recruits. This year, imo, it looks like he has stepped up his game. I'm not going to just support underperforming coaches, Glades, and be comfortable, but like I said, at this point, there does seem to be a marked improvement in Springer's recruiting. Maybe Fitz laid down the law to the coaches when he had their back instead of displacing them. Fitz is 24/7 and relentless as a coach/recruiter, and it seems to me that this recruiting class is showing signs that the totality of his coaching staff this year is putting it all on the line in recruiting. I mean, with two awful years on the field, our recruiting this year can only be a witness to the fine recruiting job being done by the entire coaching staff.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Welcome back Turk!

 

[Hungry Jack]

Well, our recruiting class last year wasn't something that impressed me. It was all over the map with multiple de-commits that had to be patched up towards the end. That said, Springer only was fully responsible for 2 recruits out of 20, at least on the rivals info page. Please reference for me who rated Springer as our best recruiter last year because most of his guys decommitted and he was only left with nabbing 2 recruits. This year, imo, it looks like he has stepped up his game. I'm not going to just support underperforming coaches, Glades, and be comfortable, but like I said, at this point, there does seem to be a marked improvement in Springer's recruiting. Maybe Fitz laid down the law to the coaches when he had their back instead of displacing them. Fitz is 24/7 and relentless as a coach/recruiter, and it seems to me that this recruiting class is showing signs that the totality of his coaching staff this year is putting it all on the line in recruiting. I mean, with two awful years on the field, our recruiting this year can only be a witness to the fine recruiting job being done by the entire coaching staff.

I agree. The 2015 class was not impressive:
Jordan Thompson - offered by Alabama, Notre Dame, MSU, Louisville, and a zillion others
Joe Gaziano - Mass POY
Trent Goens - Bunch of PAC 12 offers+ Miami; great senior tape
Nathan Fox - offers from Oregon, Miss. St
Cam Green - offers from Nebraska, BC, Iowa, Minny, Ill and others
Jared Thomas - offers from BC, Duke, Wake and several B1G schools
John Moten - offers from Missouri, BC, Wake, Syracuse

Plus, the tapes of guys like Otterman, Roberts, and Fessler stunk.

 

[Gladeskat]

Here's one article where he's rated 2nd just behind McPherson, another coach you didn't care for because he didn't play RB in college. Then McPherson got some talent like Venric Mark and JJackson and I guess he's OK now. There was another article that rated Springer our top recruiter for the year but I'm not going to bother looking for it.

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeCoachRankings?Conference=Big-Ten

Oh, and Cushing is a pretty good recruiter as well...another guy who you think should be fired.

https://patfitzgeraldfootballcamp.com/staff.php

Fact is you don't really know who's underperforming! Ultimately the coaches are responsible (see all-knowing xyzbob above), but a lot of coaches are fired because of crappy recruiting, injuries, and player lack of motivation and underperformance. You've wanted Jerry Brown fired for years and our DB's are probably our strongest unit now. You bitched about McPherson not being a RB in college and wanted him replaced. Now he just coached the best freshman RB in the Big Ten last year.

This class isn't even signed and you're signing praises for recruits who had very few Big5 offers. Maybe he's recruiting well, nobody can tell beyond recruiting hype....But the fish aren't even in the boat, let alone filleted and on the grill (3 years later) and you're calling this a great recruiting class already. I'm from Missouri.

 

[hdhntr1]

How much of the poor performance of the receivers can be laid at Springer's feet?

I would think quite a bit as he is the one common denominator for an under performing group.

 

[Gladeskat]

Sure, eyes are on Springer to coach the players he has to do well.

Injuries don't figure into your equation? How about a general lack of talent, injuries or effects of poor play at other positions on offense?

 

[hdhntr1]

Here's one article where he's rated 2nd just behind McPherson, another coach you didn't care for because he didn't play RB in college. Then McPherson got some talent like Venric Mark and JJackson and I guess he's OK now. There was another article that rated Springer our top recruiter for the year but I'm not going to bother looking for it.

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeCoachRankings?Conference=Big-Ten

Oh, and Cushing is a pretty good recruiter as well...another guy who you think should be fired.

https://patfitzgeraldfootballcamp.com/staff.php

Fact is you don't know who's underperforming! You've wanted Jerry Brown fired for years and our DB's are probably our strongest unit now. You bitched about McPherson not being a RB in college and wanted him replaced. Now he just coached the best freshman RB in the Big Ten last year.

This class isn't even signed and you're signing praises for recruits who had very few Big5 offers. Maybe he's recruiting well, nobody can tell beyond recruiting hype....But the fish aren't even in the boat, let alone filleted and on the grill (3 years later) and you're calling this a great recruiting class already. I'm from Missouri.

Overall, it is tough for us as spectators to get a full handle on the jobs certain coaches are doing. THat said, when we see areas that have consistently had problems getting the job done, it calls the coaches job performance in certain areas into question. Cushing, for example has been a very solid recruiter. That does not mean that I wouldn't like to see better performance out of the OL. Just because Springer is a top recruiter doesn't mean he is a great receivers coach. It is the overall body of work. And the performance of these two groups does open up the question of whether these are the right guys or in the right positions. While we

I have not ever really had a problem with Jerry Brown. He often had little to work with and type of D under Colby for example created problems for the unit. When he has even reasonable talent and pressure up front, they do OK.

 

[Gladeskat]

Overall, it is tough for us as spectators to get a full handle on the jobs certain coaches are doing. THat said, when we see areas that have consistently had problems getting the job done, it calls the coaches job performance in certain areas into question. Cushing, for example has been a very solid recruiter. That does not mean that I wouldn't like to see better performance out of the OL. Just because Springer is a top recruiter doesn't mean he is a great receivers coach. It is the overall body of work. And the performance of these two groups does open up the question of whether these are the right guys or in the right positions. While we

I have not ever really had a problem with Jerry Brown. He often had little to work with and type of D under Colby for example created problems for the unit. When he has even reasonable talent and pressure up front, they do OK.

Now that's a reasonable post. I certainly wonder about our coaching at positions that have underperformed as well, but I know there are other things to consider. Football is a tough way to make a living when you're livelihood is dependent upon the development, maturity, and execution of 17-year-old kids. Keep in mind that this is the same staff that went 10-3 in 2012. The most important thing that has changed between 2012 and the past two years is personnel and our injury situation.

 

[SciCat]

Sure, eyes are on Springer to coach the players he has to do well.

Injuries don't figure into your equation? How about a general lack of talent, injuries or effects of poor play at other positions on offense?

I don't know the cause. That's why I was asking the question. I do know that when IU and NU swapped coaches, their receiving game improved and NU's got worse.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I would suggest most. I would expect Springer to have a heavy say on the inbound receiving recruits - so lack of living up to expectations falls on poor recruiting. Alternatively, those that arrive and slack off yet remain on the team - I would argue indicate poor leadership and unreasonable latitude by the coaches. So, finally, those that arrive as advertised, work hard and do not progress - I would argue is a result of poor development, otherwise known as coaching. (It is hard for the koolaid klan to argue the lack of production falls on the OL or QB, without indicting a different part of the program. Coincidentally, seems we have sent a few QBs into NFL camps over the past few years so...)

I would expect some random injuries, but the body of work should be offset with some real success stories. Every program has injuries - and if we have a recurring number of swarms of injuries at receiver - then I look at the coach and his methodologies, and I look to the strength and conditioning coach. Anomalies are just that - more often, occurrences are not random but attributable.

At the end of the day, we have brought in a variety of talent from a ranking perspective, speed perspective, size and shape. And it has been a long time since the receiver corp produced a single stud. If Prater produces at the NFL level, I think it speaks loudly to the receiver coach at NU. If TS finds success at the next level, I have the same thoughts about the OC, QB coach and head coach.

The purple koolaid klan can jump all over me, but results eliminate the need for excuses. I would rather have the results.

Why do you continue to insist on referring to anyone who may have a counter opinion to you as the purple koolaid klan?

I haven't heard many if anyone claim to be satisfied with the performance of our WR's the last 2 years. I bet the WR's would say so themselves. The coaches have. So, lack of living up to expectations is all on poor recruiting? Can't be the players can in. Can't be due to injuries can it? Oh yeah, forgot that is on the staff for poor training program.

Tell me who is the consensus stud WR recruit we have had last year? Don't give me Prater, because we didn't have him the whole time and he did way better for us than he did at SC. Christian Jones came in with a serious knee injury. I would say he has been good when healthy. Who else came in with a ton of factory offers? So is it the recruiting bringing in average talent or is it the coaching being subpar for strong talent. You want both arguments. Either way you get your desired outcome of being able to blast away at the coaches and call dissenters names.

All of this about where to place the blame is pure conjecture from people that are not close to the inner workings of the program. Opinions ( me included). Let the name calling begin.

 

[Turk]

Glades, you are quote mining me. I simply said that this class looks good. Allow me to be hopeful. Sheesh! But I was simply going off of cliff notes, i.e., GCG analysis. It simply looks promising and I don't see why that opinion is any less as valid as yours. Ok, so our recruits don't have loads of Big5 offers, nonetheless, as a fan, I simply like what I see and it does appear to me that Fitz and his staff are working 24/7 and maybe moreso. Whether I'm wrong or right, I don't care, I'm just expressing my own observation and I'm simply impressed. Allow me to give credit to the coaches, ok?

That said, the same article that you referenced that Springer was our second best recruiter had Cushing rated at our 5th best and bringing up the bottom end at #105. Whatever the case, I am impressed with Springer's current year recruiting. How can one not be? And to be sure, I'm still uncomfortable with him as a coach though and I think Fitz should have made some changes. Am I right? I hope not. And I'm certainly hoping that Fitz proves me and others wrong. He has before. Everything I have said is simply based on my own observing, of course I don't know the inner workings of everything. Who knows, maybe McCall was more responsible for the lack of production in the WR unit. All I know is that something needs to be fixed and I haven't seen anything other than Fitz making an excuse for the union vote, and claiming injury bug [but that's inherent in this game]. And that is my gripe, I looked for some noticeable change last year to make sure we didn't repeat the previous year. And I didn't personally detect any change, and we got another underperforming season. Then I looked towards changes this past January, and still none, so I pretty much dialed out as a fan and expect the same ole for this year. Nonetheless, I bought my season tickets and will travel to see the cats as well because I have enough purple blood in the tank to swish around for at least the opening few games. A win against Stanford will be a 'fill up'.

Go Cats!

 

[Turk]

HungryJack, everything in context my brother.

Yes we had some nice recruits last year, but as a whole, in context, It doesn't appear to have the same guru support as this year's or the previous year. From my observations, and admittedly the consent is manufactured by visiting the guru sites, it appears to me that this class is shaping up nicer than the previous class. And the previous class was a noticeable downgrade from the prior class. So, I think, or at least it appears, that last year's recruiting was a minor blip, and that this year's recruiting has us upward back to the 2014 class.

 

[IGNORE2]

Sure, eyes are on Springer to coach the players he has to do well.

Injuries don't figure into your equation? How about a general lack of talent, injuries or effects of poor play at other positions on offense?

Glades - who do you think decides which receiver recruits to offer? You played, how much do think your position coach factored into your offer? Do you believe it is reasonable to expect a position coach to sign off on offers to their position? I mean, for the industry outside NU, these are highly competitive and volatile jobs. If you were a position coach at another school, wouldn't you insist on being intimately involved in the offers that would control your future employment? Heck, forget firing, strong results mean advancing - OC, HC offers - aren't you going to bet on you when it comes to evaluating and then developing talent?

And injuries factor in, to a point, but you would expect the odds to even and the position to produce a star every other year. Otherwise, maybe the injuries are symptomatic of the system?

Finally, what positions do you feel negatively impacted receiver results over the past three years. (I expect you to fully dodge this question.)

 

[IGNORE2]

Why do you continue to insist on referring to anyone who may have a counter opinion to you as the purple koolaid klan?

I haven't heard many if anyone claim to be satisfied with the performance of our WR's the last 2 years. I bet the WR's would say so themselves. The coaches have. So, lack of living up to expectations is all on poor recruiting? Can't be the players can in. Can't be due to injuries can it? Oh yeah, forgot that is on the staff for poor training program.

Tell me who is the consensus stud WR recruit we have had last year? Don't give me Prater, because we didn't have him the whole time and he did way better for us than he did at SC. Christian Jones came in with a serious knee injury. I would say he has been good when healthy. Who else came in with a ton of factory offers? So is it the recruiting bringing in average talent or is it the coaching being subpar for strong talent. You want both arguments. Either way you get your desired outcome of being able to blast away at the coaches and call dissenters names.

All of this about where to place the blame is pure conjecture from people that are not close to the inner workings of the program. Opinions ( me included). Let the name calling begin.

Per board rulers, I won't call out posters. But you have to be blind or ignorant to miss the koolaiders.

Anywho, can you tell me what kind of stud recruits resulted in Bates, Markhausen, and the various other quality receivers that we have sent to the NFL. Are you suggesting the coaching in the past had nothing to do with their development? Didn't we have a former walk on turn into a stud by senior year? Serious recruit ranking miss, or development? If the coaches play little to no role in developing, then why not dump position coaches altogether and replace with a team of super talent evaluators?

As for injuries, buy what you want. I'm logic based. I despise the concept of the coincidence. So I truly believe the ongoing avalanche of injuries can be tied to something else. Too many incoming health issues? I don't think so based on the variety of injuries. My instinct says poor coaching methodologies, poor strength and conditioning and/or poor training room procedures. Probably a combination of several factors with luck being the least significant.

Therefore, IMHO, it is the HC and AD's to uncover the root cause(s) and implement a fix. Sorry that seems so outlandish to you.

 

[PaCat]

"I'm logic based. I despise the concept of the coincidence."
So your definition of logic causes you to reject the possibility of pure coincidence. Doesn't sound very logical to me.

 

[hdhntr1]

Why do you continue to insist on referring to anyone who may have a counter opinion to you as the purple koolaid klan?

I haven't heard many if anyone claim to be satisfied with the performance of our WR's the last 2 years. I bet the WR's would say so themselves. The coaches have. So, lack of living up to expectations is all on poor recruiting? Can't be the players can in. Can't be due to injuries can it? Oh yeah, forgot that is on the staff for poor training program.

Tell me who is the consensus stud WR recruit we have had last year? Don't give me Prater, because we didn't have him the whole time and he did way better for us than he did at SC. Christian Jones came in with a serious knee injury. I would say he has been good when healthy. Who else came in with a ton of factory offers? So is it the recruiting bringing in average talent or is it the coaching being subpar for strong talent. You want both arguments. Either way you get your desired outcome of being able to blast away at the coaches and call dissenters names.

All of this about where to place the blame is pure conjecture from people that are not close to the inner workings of the program. Opinions ( me included). Let the name calling begin.

With poor performance of the entire group,

Sure, eyes are on Springer to coach the players he has to do well.

Injuries don't figure into your equation? How about a general lack of talent, injuries or effects of poor play at other positions on offense?

Injuries always figure in. So does recruiting and lack of talent but we have always had trouble recruiting receivers and the group we have had in the last couple years were the highest rated in the last 12 years with the most outside offers that we have had so hard to say that the talent really dropped off. While they are all part of it, what we saw as spectators were a lot of dropped passes, little separation and problems converting 3rd downs. If it was just one guy, it would be one thing but when it happens throughout the entire unit, then you have to at least look at the common denominators. What were they? QB (Siemian was a 58-59% passer through his career while Persa and Colter averaged closer to 70%), limited time do to OL weakness and WR coach. So WR coach is on that list and at least must be looked at.

 

[IGNORE2]

"I'm logic based. I despise the concept of the coincidence."
So your definition of logic causes you to reject the possibility of pure coincidence. Doesn't sound very logical to me.

I didn't say reject. Random events will occur, but not as often as they get credited.

 

[Gladeskat]

Glades, you are quote mining me. I simply said that this class looks good. Allow me to be hopeful. Sheesh! But I was simply going off of cliff notes, i.e., GCG analysis. It simply looks promising and I don't see why that opinion is any less as valid as yours. Ok, so our recruits don't have loads of Big5 offers, nonetheless, as a fan, I simply like what I see and it does appear to me that Fitz and his staff are working 24/7 and maybe moreso. Whether I'm wrong or right, I don't care, I'm just expressing my own observation and I'm simply impressed. Allow me to give credit to the coaches, ok?

That said, the same article that you referenced that Springer was our second best recruiter had Cushing rated at our 5th best and bringing up the bottom end at #105. Whatever the case, I am impressed with Springer's current year recruiting. How can one not be? And to be sure, I'm still uncomfortable with him as a coach though and I think Fitz should have made some changes. Am I right? I hope not. And I'm certainly hoping that Fitz proves me and others wrong. He has before. Everything I have said is simply based on my own observing, of course I don't know the inner workings of everything. Who knows, maybe McCall was more responsible for the lack of production in the WR unit. All I know is that something needs to be fixed and I haven't seen anything other than Fitz making an excuse for the union vote, and claiming injury bug [but that's inherent in this game]. And that is my gripe, I looked for some noticeable change last year to make sure we didn't repeat the previous year. And I didn't personally detect any change, and we got another underperforming season. Then I looked towards changes this past January, and still none, so I pretty much dialed out as a fan and expect the same ole for this year. Nonetheless, I bought my season tickets and will travel to see the cats as well because I have enough purple blood in the tank to swish around for at least the opening few games. A win against Stanford will be a 'fill up'.

Go Cats!

You don't think you know what the expression "quote mining" even means. It means taking quotes out of context to distort their original meaning, like quoting rhetorical questions or juxtaposed statements. It does NOT mean making truthful statements about someone's opinions in the past. Point out where I've misrepresented the opinions you have posted in the past on this board.

Did you read the other link that stated Cushing was named a top recruiter by one of the recruiting rags several years ago?

You like our recruiting? Fine. Your opinion on recruiting is as good as mine for all we know right now. Same with our coaching. Normally I do that to counter your constant negativity lately. In this case, I'm surprised you're particularly happy about our recruiting when we have 8 months to signing day.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Per board rulers, I won't call out posters. But you have to be blind or ignorant to miss the koolaiders.

Anywho, can you tell me what kind of stud recruits resulted in Bates, Markhausen, and the various other quality receivers that we have sent to the NFL. Are you suggesting the coaching in the past had nothing to do with their development? Didn't we have a former walk on turn into a stud by senior year? Serious recruit ranking miss, or development? If the coaches play little to no role in developing, then why not dump position coaches altogether and replace with a team of super talent evaluators?

As for injuries, buy what you want. I'm logic based. I despise the concept of the coincidence. So I truly believe the ongoing avalanche of injuries can be tied to something else. Too many incoming health issues? I don't think so based on the variety of injuries. My instinct says poor coaching methodologies, poor strength and conditioning and/or poor training room procedures. Probably a combination of several factors with luck being the least significant.

Therefore, IMHO, it is the HC and AD's to uncover the root cause(s) and implement a fix. Sorry that seems so outlandish to you.

Bob, I think most of us agree that the WR group has not been good as a unit the last few years. If they had shook up the staff, most would probably have been fine with that decision. However, I personally have, no idea if that was the right move and I know enough about business to let someone who is involved daily in the process and makes $1M+ annually make that evaluation. Eventually the buck stops at the head coach and I am positive he knows that.

My point was I couldn't understand if your opinion revolved around the coaches recruiting misses or critizing their development of solid recruits. You just referenced successful players that were lightly regarded recruits in this post, so maybe you mean we can develop players but aren't so good at recruiting highly rated WR''s? Hard to tell because you pretty much threw everything against the wall that could be the coaches fault.

You also seem to suggest that coaches should jettison under performers. That reminds me of the SEC approach to covering up recruiting misses. See Alabama. Maybe you can do that at the factories, but not at NU where reputation risk is paramount in recruiting. Either way it just isn't the ethical thing to do.

 

[Turk]

Why wouldn't I be happy, Glades? The results seem to indicate the coaching staff has already had quite a lot of success, even with 8 months to go. We have 11 commitments and all 11 of them have a lot of respect from the recruiting gurus. Granted, you may be right and our recruits and team lack talent, but I think the talent has been coming in a lot better than during Walker's years. Now if we can just develop that talent over 5 years, that's where we clearly have issues.

 

[Gladeskat]

Glades - who do you think decides which receiver recruits to offer? You played, how much do think your position coach factored into your offer? Do you believe it is reasonable to expect a position coach to sign off on offers to their position? I mean, for the industry outside NU, these are highly competitive and volatile jobs. If you were a position coach at another school, wouldn't you insist on being intimately involved in the offers that would control your future employment? Heck, forget firing, strong results mean advancing - OC, HC offers - aren't you going to bet on you when it comes to evaluating and then developing talent?

And injuries factor in, to a point, but you would expect the odds to even and the position to produce a star every other year. Otherwise, maybe the injuries are symptomatic of the system?

Finally, what positions do you feel negatively impacted receiver results over the past three years. (I expect you to fully dodge this question.)

My understanding of recruiting is that position coaches do review and sign off on players they will be coaching, but they do not spend much time researching the best DT's in the land and go out and recruit them. They have their own regions to recruit. The bulk of the actual recruiting is left to the coach that handles a given geographic region. For example, I never met or talked to my position coach until I showed up in the fall and was told I'd be playing DT. I had met just about every other coach on the staff except my position coach. I assume he saw me on tape, but he never attended one of my games as far as I know. The RB coach did ALL the legwork in my recruitment. He was the guy blamed for my sucking my freshman year. My but he was really happy (Jake was always smiling) when I started playing better my sophomore year (he was the guy who insinuated that he caught some heat my freshman year). GoCatsGo would know better how they partition recruiting chores nowadays.

Our injury situation has been horrible the last two years. Sorry, but that can't be dismissed by saying everybody has injuries. Our star players were either out for the year (CJones) or out for several game stretches. Yes, it is fair to wonder why we had so many in two consecutive years and to suspect training or practice issues.

I feel our OL and QB affected our WR's last year. Our OL has often been poor at setting the pocket and protecting the QB. Our QB has been hampered by injuries both seasons and has had problems moving around in the pocket or out of the pocket to avoid batted balls. The OL is also to blame for that as well. Also, our play calling is to blame for not going to the short, quick passing game in several games, particularly the Michigan game. That aside, our WR's had their heads up their butts all last season with terrible drops. Even Vitale dropped two passes in a row where it looked like he wasn't trying as hard as he could have. I'd assign a certain degree of blame for the drops and poor play on Springer. However, I'm not going to assign a percentage of the blame because I don't know the real underlying causes of our poor performance. Some of those drops were so poor that I have to blame the players for not catching passes I could have caught myself.

Why would you think I would avoid that question? Why did I even need to answer it? I'd think it'd be obvious to those who've strapped it on.

 

[Gladeskat]

Why wouldn't I be happy, Glades? The results seem to indicate the coaching staff has already had quite a lot of success, even with 8 months to go. We have 11 commitments and all 11 of them have a lot of respect from the recruiting gurus. Granted, you may be right and our recruits and team lack talent, but I think the talent has been coming in a lot better than during Walker's years. Now if we can just develop that talent over 5 years, that's where we clearly have issues.

And that's where I disagree. I don't see talent improving from our 2003-2005 and 2008-2009 teams. Good teams are built upon having good QB's, RB's, OL's and DL's, and I think Fitz has done a lesser job recruiting QB, RB's (until JJ) OL and DL talent compared to Walker. I give credit to Fitz for his DB recruiting lately being better than Walker's, but we still hadn't put a DB in the NFL since McManis and Cole (Walker recruits) until this year. The other positions are a wash. We have the fewest active players in the NFL of all the teams in the Big Ten the last time I checked.

 

[Turk]

And that's where I disagree. I don't see talent improving from our 2003-2005 and 2008-2009 teams. Good teams are built upon having good QB's, RB's, OL's and DL's, and I think Fitz has done a lesser job recruiting QB, RB's (until JJ) OL and DL talent compared to Walker. I give credit to Fitz for his DB recruiting lately being better than Walker's, but we still hadn't put a DB in the NFL since McManis and Cole (Walker recruits) until this year. The other positions are a wash. We have the fewest active players in the NFL of all the teams in the Big Ten the last time I checked.

I agree about the OL and DL talent/development. But I think our lack of QB play with Fitz recruits is that they are getting POUNDED. We simply can't keep a QB healthy with the drilling they take. Persa, Colter, Trevor all been knocked out of games and years after relentless pounding. Colter and Trevor were Fitz recruits and both showed a lot of talent if not for playing on one leg. With just a semblance of a line or help from McCall, who knows what Colter or Trevor would have been? Things looked promising right up to the end of the OSU game but then the injuries mounted. So, I'd say even though Walker got us Kustoc, by way of Barnett, Basenez, CJ, Kafka, and Persa, I think it is still too early to speculate about Fitz QB recruits. Quite frankly, I been impressed, i.e., Colter, Trevor, Alviti, Thorson. Two got crushed their whole career, and now two are batter up.

Also, didn't Fitz recruit Mark as well?

IMO, he has struggled with finding production and talent at wide out along with OL especially. But which came first, a lack of talent or a lack of a quality position coach/Coordinator?

BTW, whatever happened to Lancaster? That guy appeared to be a beast and very hard worker....has he been injured?

 

[Gladeskat]

I agree about the OL and DL talent/development. But I think our lack of QB play with Fitz recruits is that they are getting POUNDED. We simply can't keep a QB healthy with the drilling they take. Persa, Colter, Trevor all been knocked out of games and years after relentless pounding. Colter and Trevor were Fitz recruits and both showed a lot of talent if not for playing on one leg. With just a semblance of a line or help from McCall, who knows what Colter or Trevor would have been? Things looked promising right up to the end of the OSU game but then the injuries mounted. So, I'd say even though Walker got us Kustoc, by way of Barnett, Basenez, CJ, Kafka, and Persa, I think it is still too early to speculate about Fitz QB recruits. Quite frankly, I been impressed, i.e., Colter, Trevor, Alviti, Thorson. Two got crushed their whole career, and now two are batter up.

Also, didn't Fitz recruit Mark as well?

IMO, he has struggled with finding production and talent at wide out along with OL especially. But which came first, a lack of talent or a lack of a quality position coach/Coordinator?

BTW, whatever happened to Lancaster? That guy appeared to be a beast and very hard worker....has he been injured?

Fitz has had more problems with talent and injuries while Walker had proven problems with coaching (see replacing Collby with Hank and Washington with Long).

Persa was the best QB we've ever had at NU, IMO. Baz was fabulous as well his last two years, Kafka and Bacher were also very good. Yes, our QB's have been hampered by a sketchy OL and injuries under FItz.

That's Venric Mark and Jackson versus Dawson, Herron, Wright, Sutton, and others. We seem to be stronger now, though. Same with DB play lately, with future NFL'ers in Igwebuike, Harris and perhaps VanHoose

If you don't have good linemen, you're not going anywhere in the Big Ten. There is no comparing Ulrich, Strief, Ndukwe, Essex, Rees with our OL under FItz or Castillo, Cofield, Wootton, Bryant, Gill, and Howard versus McEvilly, Odenigbo, Arnfelt, DiNardo, Lowry, and Browne.

 

[IGNORE2]

[QUOTE="

My point was I couldn't understand if your opinion revolved around the coaches recruiting misses or critizing their development of solid recruits. You just referenced successful players that were lightly regarded recruits in this post, so maybe you mean we can develop players but aren't so good at recruiting highly rated WR''s? Hard to tell because you pretty much threw everything against the wall that could be the coaches fault.

You also seem to suggest that coaches should jettison under performers. That reminds me of the SEC approach to covering up recruiting misses. See Alabama. Maybe you can do that at the factories, but not at NU where reputation risk is paramount in recruiting. Either way it just isn't the ethical thing to do.[/QUOTE]

Let me clarify. I think there are som systematic problems with the current football program. I think WR. Is one good example. Historically, w have produce some high quality receivers - sufficient to draw NFL attention.. More recently, not. Why?

If you say incoming talent, I say the position coach should accept responsibility for evaluation.

If you say injuries, I say there is a systemic issue. Plus, I still think the remnants should produce some high quality results occasionally.

If you say lack of development, I say coaching issue.

If you say players losing focus or drive, then I say they should not be returning.

If you say other positions, I say which ones? Identify where you specifically assign this failure.

Ultimately, players play. But coaches select the players, manage the players and develop the players. Their fingerprints are all over the system. And that is why I believe these positions are volatile. You show a propensity, you move up the food chain. You fail to produce production from your group, then you should move down. End of story.

 

[IGNORE2]

My understanding of recruiting is that position coaches do review and sign off on players they will be coaching, but they do not spend much time researching the best DT's in the land and go out and recruit them. They have their own regions to recruit. The bulk of the actual recruiting is left to the coach that handles a given geographic region. For example, I never met or talked to my position coach until I showed up in the fall and was told I'd be playing DT. I had met just about every other coach on the staff except my position coach. I assume he saw me on tape, but he never attended one of my games as far as I know. The RB coach did ALL the legwork in my recruitment. He was the guy blamed for my sucking my freshman year. My but he was really happy (Jake was always smiling) when I started playing better my sophomore year (he was the guy who insinuated that he caught some heat my freshman year). GoCatsGo would know better how they partition recruiting chores nowadays.

Our injury situation has been horrible the last two years. Sorry, but that can't be dismissed by saying everybody has injuries. Our star players were either out for the year (CJones) or out for several game stretches. Yes, it is fair to wonder why we had so many in two consecutive years and to suspect training or practice issues.

I feel our OL and QB affected our WR's last year. Our OL has often been poor at setting the pocket and protecting the QB. Our QB has been hampered by injuries both seasons and has had problems moving around in the pocket or out of the pocket to avoid batted balls. The OL is also to blame for that as well. Also, our play calling is to blame for not going to the short, quick passing game in several games, particularly the Michigan game. That aside, our WR's had their heads up their butts all last season with terrible drops. Even Vitale dropped two passes in a row where it looked like he wasn't trying as hard as he could have. I'd assign a certain degree of blame for the drops and poor play on Springer. However, I'm not going to assign a percentage of the blame because I don't know the real underlying causes of our poor performance. Some of those drops were so poor that I have to blame the players for not catching passes I could have caught myself.

Why would you think I would avoid that question? Why did I even need to answer it? I'd think it'd be obvious to those who've strapped it on.

Ah, the strap it on routine.

Well at least we agree on some things, the OL, OC and QB coaches failed miserably.

And while I have never coached in a paid capacity, I assure you that if I did, I would make sure I signed off on every player under my control. And only after performing my due diligence. Because I would expect the buck to stop with me for the credit or blame for the performance of my guys. And I do believe that is how it goes at big 5 conference programs, except NU.

 

[IGNORE2]

And that's where I disagree. I don't see talent improving from our 2003-2005 and 2008-2009 teams. Good teams are built upon having good QB's, RB's, OL's and DL's, and I think Fitz has done a lesser job recruiting QB, RB's (until JJ) OL and DL talent compared to Walker. I give credit to Fitz for his DB recruiting lately being better than Walker's, but we still hadn't put a DB in the NFL since McManis and Cole (Walker recruits) until this year. The other positions are a wash. We have the fewest active players in the NFL of all the teams in the Big Ten the last time I checked.

Two things: by my count, you have stated that good teams are based on half of the starting 22. Quite a limb to go out on. You forgot the cheerleaders, fans and God.

I also think we have sent more QBs to the NFL recently. But I think the better comparison would be NFL games played. I have no idea on the answer.

 

[Gladeskat]

Ah, the strap it on routine.

Well at least we agree on some things, the OL, OC and QB coaches failed miserably.

And while I have never coached in a paid capacity, I assure you that if I did, I would make sure I signed off on every player under my control. And only after performing my due diligence. Because I would expect the buck to stop with me for the credit or blame for the performance of my guys. And I do believe that is how it goes at big 5 conference programs, except NU.

Damn, I only got a nibble that time.

If that's how you read my post, then fine. Fitz has fired coaches in the past. There must be a reason why he's hanging on to the OC, WR, and OL coaches besides loyalty and fear of firing someone.