Recruits are asking for 5k just to make a campus visit

[JimStarr777]

D1 has become a joke.

Nick Saban talks NIL after Ohio State AD claims recruits want $5,000 per visit

Saban was asked if prospects have asked for a monetary incentive to visit Tuscaloosa.

www.al.com

 

[corbi296]

D1 has become a joke.

Nick Saban talks NIL after Ohio State AD claims recruits want $5,000 per visit

Saban was asked if prospects have asked for a monetary incentive to visit Tuscaloosa.

www.al.com

Joke for sure. I’d tell them to take a walk.

 

[NUCat320]

Perhaps Derrick Gragg was involved in setting NCAA amateurism and player compensation policies. (He did a poor job.)

 

[WaveJumper]

I remember a whole bunch of bleeding hearts on this very message board whining that players were not being compensated beyond receiving a scholarship and a small stipend for living expenses.

For those of you who were in that camp, (I don't expect you to man-up and admit it), I hope you're happy with how this is turning out. What the heck, only $5,000 to get an 18 year old to take an official - no problem. College quarterbacks with a net worth of 2 to 3 million (Shedeur?) - nothing to see there.

I thought when Bear Bryant flew a plane over a Texas ranch and dropped a hay bale with $5,000 in it to incent a recruit to sign with A&M, that was pretty bad, but now I find out that that was small potatoes - just the price for an official. Nah, this isn't gonna hurt the game.

Maybe those hundred dollar handshakes weren't too bad after all.

 

[Dugan15]

I remember a whole bunch of bleeding hearts on this very message board whining that players were not being compensated beyond receiving a scholarship and a small stipend for living expenses.

For those of you who were in that camp, (I don't expect you to man-up and admit it), I hope you're happy with how this is turning out. What the heck, only $5,000 to get an 18 year old to take an official - no problem. College quarterbacks with a net worth of 2 to 3 million (Shedeur?) - nothing to see there.

I thought when Bear Bryant flew a plane over a Texas ranch and dropped a hay bale with $5,000 in it to incent a recruit to sign with A&M, that was pretty bad, but now I find out that that was small potatoes - just the price for an official. Nah, this isn't gonna hurt the game.

Maybe those hundred dollar handshakes weren't too bad after all.

Wave: I love the concept of amateurism. I loved having Ed Sutter and Evan Pedersen in my NU classes. I loved the image of what college football was designed to represent.

But, much of that was a mirage.

College football was and is a big business. The players are the labor that I enjoy watching. As long as Pat Fitzgerald, Nick Saban, Mel Tucker and Kirk Ferentz…and announcers and dozens of staff and general contractors of the Taj Ma Fitz make money, so I am cool with the players.

And, if it makes sense to throw money to recruit future players, so be it. I think it is kind of stupid. But, it is what it is. Better that the prior alternative.

I know it sucks for NU. I know it doesn’t feel right.

But, I also know it is better and more appropriate than the prior system of feigned amateurism, under the table payments and command and control by the NCAA and its member institutions.

 

[WaveJumper]

I'm glad you're OK with it. Maybe time and some additional oversight will fix the problems I seem to see.

But you don't get a Mulligan if it wrecks the sport, and also hurts NU- which I think it ultimately will. Given where NU is, (or make that - isn't) in a good position, to be competitive in this brave new world of NCAA semi-pro ball, my vision of the future is that it will have a very negative effect on the only college football team I care about, unless there are "guardrails" put up. What used to be death penalty offenses, are now commonplace occurrences. Does Shedure only joyride in a Maybach, or does he own one?

 

[NUCat320]

I'm glad you're OK with it. Maybe time and some additional oversight will fix the problems I seem to see.

But you don't get a Mulligan if it wrecks the sport, and also hurts NU- which I think it ultimately will. Given where NU is, (or make that - isn't) in a good position, to be competitive in this brave new world of NCAA semi-pro ball, my vision of the future is that it will have a very negative effect on the only college football team I care about, unless there are "guardrails" put up. What used to be death penalty offenses, are now commonplace occurrences. Does Shedure only joyride in a Maybach, or does he own one?

The problem is that the NCAA was so unwilling to act for so many years. The NCAA continued to pretend that there was no disconnect between billion dollar TV contracts and ten-digit coaching salaries and unpaid players.

AJ Green was suspended for selling a bowl game jersey for $900 dollars. The Ohio State scandal was about free tattoos. To be wed to the idea that players weren’t entitled to ‘extra benefits’ for being college football players who bring in hundreds of millions of dollars — and fund million-dollar AD salaries and, amusingly, fund huge departments of full-time recruiters (where the recruiters were paid to bring in unpaid players) — was backwards and wrong.

There were so many solutions (flat payments based on tv earnings, allow conferences to agree on per player rates, actual ‘salary caps’ spread at coaches discretions) that would have somewhat offset the inequity of million dollar coaching staffs building salaries off of totally uncompensated labor — but the NCAA chose to say ‘student athlete’ over and over and over and over and over, while ensuring that cream cheese was not included at ‘snacks’ events including bagels.

I don’t like unfettered transfers and salary-based recruiting — and I especially don’t like that it’s done in the dark — but it’s good that the players finally have some control after 100 years (but, really, especially the last 20 or 30 years) of everybody except the players getting rich off of it.

(I mean, when the current Supreme Court thinks your organization is too anti-worker, it’s probably gotten ridiculous.)

I also sense that the market will change over time — Texas A&M’s bought and paid number one recruiting class is getting very similar results to their top 20 classes, as far as I can tell. There’s a lot of risk to pay an 18 year old to do anything, no matter however how talented and driven and filled with potential that high school senior appears to be.

It is for the above reasons that I believe Derrick Gragg was in charge of setting policy, and chose instead to go to Europe.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I'm glad you're OK with it. Maybe time and some additional oversight will fix the problems I seem to see.

But you don't get a Mulligan if it wrecks the sport, and also hurts NU- which I think it ultimately will. Given where NU is, (or make that - isn't) in a good position, to be competitive in this brave new world of NCAA semi-pro ball, my vision of the future is that it will have a very negative effect on the only college football team I care about, unless there are "guardrails" put up. What used to be death penalty offenses, are now commonplace occurrences. Does Shedure only joyride in a Maybach, or does he own one?

Players should get anything that the Morons are willing to dish out. Just like any other job in this country. It’s the adults that are to blame not the players.

 

[NUCat320]

Players should get anything that the Morons are willing to dish out. Just like any other job in this country. It’s the adults that are to blame not the players.

This is better than mine.

Stack that paper, it’s the American way.

 

[kaTNap]

Joke for sure. I’d tell them to take a walk.

NIL doesn't allow or require monetary incentives for recruits, and it's still totally contrary to NCAA rules, correct?

 

[Hungry Jack]

The problem is that the NCAA was so unwilling to act for so many years. The NCAA continued to pretend that there was no disconnect between billion dollar TV contracts and ten-digit coaching salaries and unpaid players.



I don’t like unfettered transfers and salary-based recruiting — and I especially don’t like that it’s done in the dark — but it’s good that the players finally have some control after 100 years (but, really, especially the last 20 or 30 years) of everybody except the players getting rich off of it.

I also sense that the market will change over time — Texas A&M’s bought and paid number one recruiting class is getting very similar results to their top 20 classes, as far as I can tell. There’s a lot of risk to pay an 18 year old to do anything, no matter however how talented and driven and filled with potential that high school senior appears to be.

This. All the NIL money in the world won’t make players better. Recruiting is and always will be a scouting business. My guess is that teams that invest $5M in a class won’t see the ROI they are hoping for. I see incremental improvements at best for schools that are in 20-50 range in terms of class rankings. The blue bloods will get into some bidding wars but will still land the top players.

In finance, research continually shows that companies overpay for acquisitions. The M&A deals typically destroy shareholder value. I don’t see high priced recruits being much different. Bidding wars plus competition for limited pools of top talent means schools will overpay for suboptimal results.

 

[corbi296]

NIL doesn't allow or require monetary incentives for recruits, and it's still totally contrary to NCAA rules, correct?

I don't know. To be honest I don't think anybody knows and this thing has become a free for all. We have gone from one extreme to another. I was supportive of making sure the players got medical care coverage after their careers were over, got some supplemental income to have enough money to go out to dinner with their girlfriend, do their laundry and fill up their gas tank. I certainly am not supportive and did not envision the free for all that this has become.

 

[Hkjb]

This free-for-all is a great opportunity for NU, seriously. It's great if other schools are paying $5k for a visit. The best thing we can do is to let them pay, while setting a clear rule that NU never, ever pays players to visit (even if we cover reasonable expenses) That way:

a) Other schools will waste precious coaching time and resource on 'window shoppers'' or recruits who just wanted to hit a few parties on campus and get a pile of cash.

b) We will immediately and unambiguously know who fits our 'high character' recruiting profile and who does not. This will likely help us delineate kids who expect something for nothing, (and likely practice that way) versus which ones who are relentless about working/improving.

c) As a result, our coaches will be efficient recruiters, waste less time on kids who aren't realistic prospects, and we'll convert a good percentage of visits to commits.

d) If we did pay 5K, we would get far more than our fair share of uninterested window shoppers due to the allure of our location. Lots of kids with no real interest in the program would just want a weekend in Chicago: This would be much more of a problem for us than it would be for Illinanoys or Nebraska... Really not an option for us.

e) Final point: These are just kids, and they respond to the kids around them. Put yourself in their adolescent shoes: If half of the other recruits around you during your visit just seem to be there for the $5K and a weekend in Chi-town, you won't feel good about the program. If all of them came because they want to be there and they are pumped about the program, then as a recruit you are going to be a lot more positive, and feel a stronger sense of belonging.

Once they do commit, we need to come with the money, for sure. The above policy of not paying for visits does not work without that. And as noted above, it's reasonable to cover some or all of the travel cost because a lot of prospects may be from low-income backgrounds.

But if it comes to paying for visits, this is a case where the deterioration of the wider landscape is an opportunity to contrast ourselves vs. the rot, showing how we are different/better. It completely fits with our "brand" as well as how Coach Braun does things.

 

[Overly_Invested_Cat]

I’m one of the proponents for paying players. Others have stated the case quite clearly. Thank you NUCat320. It’s the Wild West now, but a new equilibrium will be found. It may not be a good fit for NU, but big time college football generally isn’t with our academic standards and lack of a large local following. Still, I think we’ll still find a way to be competitive just by finding quality players and students.

Does it hurt our chances of making the new 12 team playoff? Yes. Is it the death nell of NU football? No. With the right coaching and recruiting, we’ll continue to be an over achieving program, but not a national powerhouse. The status quo.

And the labor is finally getting paid, which is still a good thing.

 

[TheC]

I'll come forward as well. My thoughts on this have already been expressed well by others on here.

 

[kawacko]

Wave: I love the concept of amateurism. I loved having Ed Sutter and Evan Pedersen in my NU classes. I loved the image of what college football was designed to represent.

But, much of that was a mirage.

College football was and is a big business. The players are the labor that I enjoy watching. As long as Pat Fitzgerald, Nick Saban, Mel Tucker and Kirk Ferentz…and announcers and dozens of staff and general contractors of the Taj Ma Fitz make money, so I am cool with the players.

And, if it makes sense to throw money to recruit future players, so be it. I think it is kind of stupid. But, it is what it is. Better that the prior alternative.

I know it sucks for NU. I know it doesn’t feel right.

But, I also know it is better and more appropriate than the prior system of feigned amateurism, under the table payments and command and control by the NCAA and its member institutions.

The cure us to stop pretending that the majority of "student" athletes are interested in an education. Let each university hire a group to represent them and allow those who are interested to seek an education. This would be better than pretending that they are all students.

 

[FeralFelidae]

The cure us to stop pretending that the majority of "student" athletes are interested in an education. Let each university hire a group to represent them and allow those who are interested to seek an education. This would be better than pretending that they are all students.

Why should the universities even be in this business if they're not students?

 

[NJCat]

Why should the universities even be in this business if they're not students?

Rhetorical question? Because it is a business that makes those corporations (viz.Harvard Corporation) $$$$$$$s.

 

[zeek55]

Why should the universities even be in this business if they're not students?

This is the dirty bargain: sports are the front porch for D1 (and sometimes other level programs) schools. They get the brand out in front of tons of people, they generate alumni interactions as well as extra donations (a hefty portion of which ends up in academics). Simply put, college athletics is profitable for universities for a variety of non-financial reasons as well as financially.

At some level, even if the business of college sports detaches from education, it will still at least be attached to the brands of the universities to keep the money flowing.

Let's say we move to an employment model: football players focus on just playing for 4-5 years; get paid $100k per year and have a guaranteed free education for up to 5 years after that with guaranteed $30-40k per year payments through their education if they use it. If they go professional in a sport, they can still come back for a free education at some point just without the extra payments.

There's no money in minor league sports because there's no following for it: college sports fixes that because colleges bring their alumni/boosters/fans to the table.

It's why college sports are here to stay; the money/fandom are here; it's just a matter of how to split the money and how to classify the athletes.

 

[FeralFelidae]

This is the dirty bargain: sports are the front porch for D1 (and sometimes other level programs) schools. They get the brand out in front of tons of people, they generate alumni interactions as well as extra donations (a hefty portion of which ends up in academics). Simply put, college athletics is profitable for universities for a variety of non-financial reasons as well as financially.

At some level, even if the business of college sports detaches from education, it will still at least be attached to the brands of the universities to keep the money flowing.

Let's say we move to an employment model: football players focus on just playing for 4-5 years; get paid $100k per year and have a guaranteed free education for up to 5 years after that with guaranteed $30-40k per year payments through their education if they use it. If they go professional in a sport, they can still come back for a free education at some point just without the extra payments.

There's no money in minor league sports because there's no following for it: college sports fixes that because colleges bring their alumni/boosters/fans to the table.

It's why college sports are here to stay; the money/fandom are here; it's just a matter of how to split the money and how to classify the athletes.

If they stop being students, then I want no part of it. What is the mission of a university?

 

[Hungry Jack]

Why should the universities even be in this business if they're not students?

$$$

Actually, I have a strong belief that sports are a huge driver of alumni support and engagement (I just cannot cite specific data). Sports are a big part of most big universities' brands, and then there is the revenue, which is growing rapidly thanks to media rights and conference consolidation.

This helps explain why NU would spend an eye-watering sum on a facility that will sit empty 350 days a year (hopefully they can use it for LAX, soccer, field hockey, etc. and build some equity for those sports). Universities are well accustomed to building giant facilities that are vastly underutilized, but as long as the money is there, they do it.

 

[TheC]

If they stop being students, then I want no part of it. What is the mission of a university?

Just because they are making some money now doesn't meant they have stopped being students. They are still going to classes. They are still benefitting from the social/communal aspect of college life. It is still providing an opportunity for many kids, most who will never sniff a pro career, to earn a degree, whereas they might not have had this opportunity without the athletic gateway.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Just because they are making some money now doesn't meant they have stopped being students. They are still going to classes. They are still benefitting from the social/communal aspect of college life. It is still providing an opportunity for many kids, most who will never sniff a pro career, to earn a degree, whereas they might not have had this opportunity without the athletic gateway.

The cure us to stop pretending that the majority of "student" athletes are interested in an education. Let each university hire a group to represent them and allow those who are interested to seek an education. This would be better than pretending that they are all students.

 

[stpaulcat]

The Harvard v. Yale game this year was exciting.

 

[zeek55]

If they stop being students, then I want no part of it. What is the mission of a university?

That's a fair concern, at the same time, I don't really think that we can use athletics to define universities.

It's the front porch yes, but most universities are far more than their athletics teams.

Northwestern has a multi-billion dollar budget. The AD budget is somewhere around $100-130 million per year. The University has 24k students not in the AD.

There has to be some perspective on where this "minor league system" fits in Universities, but it can be a win-win for all involved: minor league sports get large captive fanbases they otherwise wouldn't get, Universities get brand opportunities, alumni/fans get an opportunity to stay connected for life, athletes get a chance at an education as well as a path to professional sports.

It serves a purpose, it's just about keeping it in perspective.

Minor league sports are just extremely difficult to make work outside of the university system, so I think that there is a purpose served in keeping it attached.

 

[TheC]

That's a fair concern, at the same time, I don't really think that we can use athletics to define universities.

It's the front porch yes, but most universities are far more than their athletics teams.

Northwestern has a multi-billion dollar budget. The AD budget is somewhere around $100-130 million per year. The University has 24k students not in the AD.

There has to be some perspective on where this "minor league system" fits in Universities, but it can be a win-win for all involved: minor league sports get large captive fanbases they otherwise wouldn't get, Universities get brand opportunities, alumni/fans get an opportunity to stay connected for life, athletes get a chance at an education as well as a path to professional sports.

It serves a purpose, it's just about keeping it in perspective.

Minor league sports are just extremely difficult to make work outside of the university system, so I think that there is a purpose served in keeping it attached.

That's where I come down too. It's far from perfect, but there is an awful lot about it that does work really well.

 

[elgatoloco]

I remember a whole bunch of bleeding hearts on this very message board whining that players were not being compensated beyond receiving a scholarship and a small stipend for living expenses.

For those of you who were in that camp, (I don't expect you to man-up and admit it), I hope you're happy with how this is turning out. What the heck, only $5,000 to get an 18 year old to take an official - no problem. College quarterbacks with a net worth of 2 to 3 million (Shedeur?) - nothing to see there.

I thought when Bear Bryant flew a plane over a Texas ranch and dropped a hay bale with $5,000 in it to incent a recruit to sign with A&M, that was pretty bad, but now I find out that that was small potatoes - just the price for an official. Nah, this isn't gonna hurt the game.

Maybe those hundred dollar handshakes weren't too bad after all.

I'm one of those bleeding hearts you didn't think would man up but who wanted college athletes to see some financial benefit. I never supported the current structure of NIL and pointed out the flaws at the time. There will be a shakeout at some point from this insanity. Paying $5K for a player just to take an official is peak stupidity, but coaches (excuse me, the NIL alliance) will pay it because there are a lot of stupid coaches out there (present company excluded, of course).

 

[zeek55]

That's where I come down too. It's far from perfect, but there is an awful lot about it that does work really well.

Yeah I always come back to: "what's the alternative?"

Minor League golf or swimming or gymnastics or wrestling or lacrosse or insert sport here just isn't financially viable for most sports at the scale that NCAA D1-3 operate.

Baseball minor leagues run on shoestring budgets and that's a top 3 US sport. Most other sports can't even support that bare level.

We can give hundreds of thousands of young talented athletes educations through varsity university athletics.

There are obviously tradeoffs here but letting young people play sports at the highest semi-pro level before their future careers is still worthwhile imo.

Obviously the $ situation for CFB/NCAAB need to be worked out and split more fairly, but I don't think erasing the entire system is the proper way out because then most sports will basically cease to exist for 18-22 year olds at the semi-pro/varsity level.

It''s why Universities being in the business of minor league/semi-pro sports still makes sense to me as well as all the other benefits of keeping alums/fans/boosters attached to Universities etc

 

[Katatonic]

I remember a whole bunch of bleeding hearts on this very message board whining that players were not being compensated beyond receiving a scholarship and a small stipend for living expenses.

For those of you who were in that camp, (I don't expect you to man-up and admit it), I hope you're happy with how this is turning out. What the heck, only $5,000 to get an 18 year old to take an official - no problem. College quarterbacks with a net worth of 2 to 3 million (Shedeur?) - nothing to see there.

I thought when Bear Bryant flew a plane over a Texas ranch and dropped a hay bale with $5,000 in it to incent a recruit to sign with A&M, that was pretty bad, but now I find out that that was small potatoes - just the price for an official. Nah, this isn't gonna hurt the game.

Maybe those hundred dollar handshakes weren't too bad after all.

What does bleeding hearts have anything to do with it?

These players bring in billions - who not only pay for the ridiculous salaries that HCs get (that has splashed down to coordinators, with more and more making 7 figures, with the top paid coordinator being paid $2.5 million), but all the scholarships for the non-revenue sports.

Aren't we a capitalistic society?

So why are these players being treated exactly the same as those for non-revenue sports?

If they were the same, their coaches wouldn't be getting 8-9 figure contracts (basically putting them on par with NFL coaches and a lot more than MLB managers) to coach so-called amateurs and Amonte-Hillar would, by far, be the highest paid coach on campus - if pay were correlated to accomplishment.

Furthermore, do you really expect football players to continue putting their bodies/health on the line for crumbs?

We're now talking about players potentially playing in as many as 17 games (same as an NFL schedule), which is more than double the 8-9 games they used to play.

Speaking of the postseason - coaches and even ADs get pretty hefty bonuses while the players get a gift basket.

The problem isn't players being compensated in some way, but rather that the NCAA has entirely dropped the ball after fighting what was inevitable for so long - where it's the wild, wild west with no structure or regulations with regard to NIL, etc.

Remember, without NIL (which needs to be regulated), there would be no Buie on this year's BB team, which would mean no chance at the Tourney.

As we've seen with Buie, NIL and other methods of compensation can actually keep athletes playing college sports longer instead of leaving to go pro.

It also makes possible Olympic medalists to return to or start their college careers, as they have a short window to capitalize on being a medalist.

 

[Katatonic]

If they stop being students, then I want no part of it. What is the mission of a university?

Even that has become a farce with 1 and done BB players.

 

[mountaindrew]

Joke for sure. I’d tell them to take a walk.

I'd tell them you'll get zero and you'll like it.

 

[CatManTrue]

I'd tell them you'll get zero and you'll like it.

And if they complain, they can have a parting bonus of a swift kick in the ass! That will teach those young enterprising capitalists a lesson.