6-6 is a yawner, sorry all !!!
- Thread starter Catbeast
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I guess your opinion of Walker would change if he had played Fitz's rugged OCC schedules up until 2012. Afterall, beating MAC bottom-feeders and FCS schools (like Fitz did...well...usually) is always impressive.
IMO, the defining characteristics of the turbulent Walker years were:
1) Taking Barnett's 0-8 team with gaping holes at certain key positions and leading them to a championship by radically changing the offense to better suit the talent handed to him. He showed that Barnett's 1995 and 1996 seasons were not some fluke, that the right coach could win at NU.
2) Then rebounding after the Barnett player exodus and RAW to go 4-4, 5-3, and 5-3 in his last three seasons, achieving program stability.
I do appreciate Walker as a coach. Offensively anyways. What he and Wilson did in 2000 was genius.
As a body of work though, I thought he was wanting in many areas. His unwavering loyalty to Colby despite repeated failure to perform was a huge flaw, and a characteristic he has unfortunately passed on to his protégé. In addition, he failed to demonstrate the ability (or interest) to recruit the depth of talent that was necessary to be perennially competitive in the B1G. That he won a title with Barnett's recruits and didn't come close with his own says it all. Superior sidelines coach and got a lot out of what talent he did have, especially on offense - I thought also the toughness he brought to the program, at least prior to Wheeler tragedy, was outstanding. Unfortunately, though understandably, I think he laid off after that and it was also a contributing factor to the mediocrity we saw on the field, but I'd say it was the loyalty to Colby and the recruiting that did us in. His offenses from 2000 onwards up were the best we've had at NU and were some of the most potent in the nation.
You keep on bringing up Fitz. Unlike many on these boards, I don't think Fitz is some incredible head coach. I think he is good and a great fit for us. Recruiting wise, I think he's better than Walker (we are deeper under Fitz than we've ever been). Gameday, he's way behind. Loyalty wise and performance driven as it relates to his staff he is as flawed as Walker. The bar I have is Barnett. Recruiting wise, one of the best. Recruited 3 B1G championship teams. The coaching job he did to lead us out of the Dark Ages and into back to back titles, may be a feat unparalleled in college sports. The dip that we saw between 1996 and 2000 was a function of some unlucky injuries (Bates especially) and the bow wave that you saw at programs like Wisconsin as well. Neither Walker nor Fitz can hold a candle to Barnett as a coach in my opinion. I think we should have called Barnett back to Evanston and had Fitz learn a bit more under him, but c'est la vie.
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How can you be so quick to come up with excuses for Barnett's failures (and there were many more failures than successes), but hammer Walker and Fitz for essentially the same thing (i.e. inability to CONSISTENTLY compete for championships for one reason or another)?
His awesomeness had grown too potent and was threatening the safety of the mere mortals dwelling in the greater Chicagoland area. It had NOTHING to do with a zero-win Big Ten season.
This.
Barney had mentally checked out, and his winless Big 10 season in his last year was evidence. The rise and fall of Barnett was quite regrettable for all involved, including the fans.
[QUOTE="NUCat320,
Teaching and inspiring and widening the perspective of brainiacs is NU's undergrad mission.[/QUOTE]
I am glad that I graduated before this became NU's mission. I believe it extremely shortsighted to deny carefully screened athletes the advantage of an NU degree. I totally reject Glades characterization of these athletes as "dimbulbs".
I was an average HS student , fortunate to get in NU ( waiting list to "With Highest Distinction), but NU was infinitely easier than my HS. I had no trouble balancing NU academics , while playing a varsity sport, with in season time demands greater than FB .
I agree the composition of NU's student body has changed since I graduated but there is so much more to a person than their SAT/ACT scores. I don't believe I have ever asked a friend or colleague their board scores to see if I should associate with them
You can have all your 4.0 "braniacs" studying in the library on a Saturday while his or her classmates are laying it on the line for their school. I'll take the 2.5 jock who can manage his time, graduate and benefit from an NU degree
Teaching and inspiring and widening the perspective of brainiacs is NU's undergrad mission.[/QUOTE]
I am glad that I graduated before this became NU's mission. I believe it extremely shortsighted to deny carefully screened athletes the advantage of an NU degree. I totally reject Glades characterization of these athletes as "dimbulbs".
I was an average HS student , fortunate to get in NU ( waiting list to "With Highest Distinction), but NU was infinitely easier than my HS. I had no trouble balancing NU academics , while playing a varsity sport, with in season time demands greater than FB .
I agree the composition of NU's student body has changed since I graduated but there is so much more to a person than their SAT/ACT scores. I don't believe I have ever asked a friend or colleague their board scores to see if I should associate with them
You can have all your 4.0 "braniacs" studying in the library on a Saturday while his or her classmates are laying it on the line for their school. I'll take the 2.5 jock who can manage his time, graduate and benefit from an NU degree
Not excuses. Calling it for what it was. I hammer Walker and Fitz for an inability to independently compete for championships at all. Walker did not demonstrate he could recruit and coach at a championship level. Barnett did. Barnett was not handed a roster by Austin Peay that could win a ring by his 2nd year.
Two rings, especially with the hand he was dealt, can buy a lot of forgiveness. I already said elsewhere, I'd prefer 3 rings in 10 years and 7 losing seasons than 10 years of 6 year wins and lower tier bowl appearances.
...and yet would likely be calling for the coaches to be fired after each of those 7 losing seasons, yeah?
I don't think Barnett got anything at all from Austin Peay unless I'm forgetting a bunch of transfers
I don't think Barnett got anything at all from Austin Peay unless I'm forgetting a bunch of transfers
Hence the phrase, "lighten up, Francis...."
I don't think Barnett got anything at all from Austin Peay unless I'm forgetting a bunch of transfers
There were a few 5th years that were recruited by Peay. Rob Johnson for one, Rodney Ray I think was another one but I'm not sure. MRCat probably could say for sure.
Like I said, a Championship ring buys a lot of forgiveness. 6-6 seasons, not so much, for me.
Barnett had a top of the line recruiting class ready to sign on the dotted line for that year. Yes, he left but most people knew that when and if the Colorado job opened he'd take it. Even the NU administration knew the same as they announced Walker as the new HC within days.
...which is kind of the point. He had checked out at NU because he wanted to be at CU.
It's an answer. Do I have to spell it out for you? Use sign language or something?
If Fitz wins a couple of rings, I will accept a few 3 win seasons to go along with that. If he continues to give us 6-6 seasons with no rings, his ass should be gone just like Bill Carmody's ass was for consistent mediocrity. And then maybe we can land a coach like Chris Collins who can take us to the next level.
As Barnett recalled later, he originally had no plans to leave. But, then Rick Taylor paid KON who had done nothing more than what Barnett was getting, showing exactly what he thought of Barnett. Taylor wanted his own coach, and got him. So, Barnett left because he wasn't feeling loved as he deserved. Taylor ruined everything - that a-hole.
I am glad that I graduated before this became NU's mission. I believe it extremely shortsighted to deny carefully screened athletes the advantage of an NU degree. I totally reject Glades characterization of these athletes as "dimbulbs".
I was an average HS student , fortunate to get in NU ( waiting list to "With Highest Distinction), but NU was infinitely easier than my HS. I had no trouble balancing NU academics , while playing a varsity sport, with in season time demands greater than FB .
I agree the composition of NU's student body has changed since I graduated but there is so much more to a person than their SAT/ACT scores. I don't believe I have ever asked a friend or colleague their board scores to see if I should associate with them
You can have all your 4.0 "braniacs" studying in the library on a Saturday while his or her classmates are laying it on the line for their school. I'll take the 2.5 jock who can manage his time, graduate and benefit from an NU degree[/QUOTE]
So the guys studying in the library are somehow inferior because they aren't, in your words, "laying it on the line" for their school? I'll take having a university that is ranked in the top 20 academically every year. If it has a good football team, great.
Guys,
You can not win consistently without an offensive line that can win in short yardage situations. How many times did we fail on third and fourth and short situations (particularly in the redzone). The losses to 13-0 WMU, 11-1 OSU, 10-3 UW, 8-4 Minny, 9-3 UNL and yes, an ISU team that made the FCS playoffs can be directly attributed to our offensive line getting pushed around and our defensive end production taking a step backward after the graduation of Green Bay Packer DE and captain of our defense last season ,Dean Lowry and very solid and productive DE Deonte Gibson. Yes, Odenigbo had a great 4-sack game v. Iowa, but was benched at numerous times by the coaching staff for good reasons. Unless NU recruits AND develops some solid road-grinders at OL (which NU should be able to do since OL are supposedly the smartest football players), we will not be able to beat the top teams in the Big 10 (8 win teams or better). But overall, solid season rebounding from an 0-2 start and with a below average (generous description) offensive line who was pushed more time backwards in our backfield than creating pushes forward. And that shows you how valuable JJ is to our offense having such a great season with such a poor offensive line blocking in front of him.
You can not win consistently without an offensive line that can win in short yardage situations. How many times did we fail on third and fourth and short situations (particularly in the redzone). The losses to 13-0 WMU, 11-1 OSU, 10-3 UW, 8-4 Minny, 9-3 UNL and yes, an ISU team that made the FCS playoffs can be directly attributed to our offensive line getting pushed around and our defensive end production taking a step backward after the graduation of Green Bay Packer DE and captain of our defense last season ,Dean Lowry and very solid and productive DE Deonte Gibson. Yes, Odenigbo had a great 4-sack game v. Iowa, but was benched at numerous times by the coaching staff for good reasons. Unless NU recruits AND develops some solid road-grinders at OL (which NU should be able to do since OL are supposedly the smartest football players), we will not be able to beat the top teams in the Big 10 (8 win teams or better). But overall, solid season rebounding from an 0-2 start and with a below average (generous description) offensive line who was pushed more time backwards in our backfield than creating pushes forward. And that shows you how valuable JJ is to our offense having such a great season with such a poor offensive line blocking in front of him.
What? That I would accept a few losing seasons for a couple championship rings? Or that I wouldn't want to run him out of town if he keeps delivering 6 win seasons?
It is funny, because as we saw about Wisconsin last night and even Penn State,both those teams fell short on fourth and one. Neither team had great offensive lines. They just find ways to win.
Every time we talk about winning championship we always talk big picture. I think this is wrong. Instead of talking Macro, let's talk Micro.
I don't think we are that far from winning the west in 2017. We knew the defense this year was not going to be as good as the defense last year. With all the talk about Lowry and Gibson, Odenigbo is the player who became All-B1G first team DE. People talk about his "benching" but I think he actually played more because we did not have the depth we had last year. Lowry was completely invisible in the bowl game. What I did see is a defensive line that did get better as the year progressed. I think there is talent on that line and they can be good next year. If we had not lost the talent in the secondary and our linebackers were a step faster, the defense could have been much better this year. I think there is incentive for the back 7 to improve. There are a couple of players who need to have great seasons if they want a good shot at the NFL. So my guess is the defense will improve.
Then there is the offense. We also knew the offense this year was going to be better but it was uncertain by how much. There are those who saw Thorson last year and figured that is all he would be for the next four years. He obviously improved. And there are also a whole bunch of people who looked at our WR group at the beginning of the season and saw nothing that would change from last year. Again that was wrong. Yes, our coaches do develop players. So, going into next year, who is to say that another Austin Carr doesn't appear? Who knows if Thorson takes even a further leap in his development? And the current o-line consist mainly of sophomores. Think about that. This line is mainly sophomores, so it isn't like they have played for a long time. What if a good off-season and the experience they had this year makes them much better? The running back situation will just be outstanding. In the West next year, Nebraska, Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa will have first year QB. Wisconsin graduates a lot of this year's defense. Purdue gets a new coach. We have a small senior class leaving us and if there is a chance at a title, I think 2017 could be it.
So, we can argue about past coaches, recruiting, etc. But I think it will come down to whether we have all the right parts at the right time.
That you wouldn't be complaining after losing seasons regardless of whether we had won titles.
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