A few quick comments from Minny

[ricko654321]

That game was too depressing to do a full review of, but some brief thoughts:
- How did it take us this long to switch to Marty? I had thought he was still hurt which made sense. But then he came in healthy- I don't understand why he wasn't the starter to begin the game (or at the least after 1-2 ineffective possessions). The offense just seems to function better when he's in there. With an OL that struggles to pass protect, particularly against the blitz, having a more mobile QB is a better option than Hilinski.
- We are really getting deep into the WR depth chart now. Really would like to get Stephon Robinson back. Malik Washington is developing into a solid player (cannot fumble though) but aside from him doesn't feel like there is much there. 18 had a couple painful drops. We need to find a downfield threat.
- Hull ran well. I've suggested we should get Andrew Clair more reps but Hull was quite solid this week.
- In past weeks I've been critical of our LBs and their missed tackles / poor positioning. They didn't have a great game this week either with some more missed tackles (also with yards after contact when they did make the tackle). But I think the bigger issue on Saturday was the DL - they just consistently got pushed backward off the ball which made it tough for our LBs to do their job. The Minny OL won that battle big time.
- Secondary played fairly solid again, a couple nice completions by Tanner Morgan but our pass defense isn't the issue.
- Does anyone understand why we ran so so many 2 deep safety looks when the other team has run the ball 70% of the plays the entire season? It was 53 of 70 on Saturday, for 76%. It was baffling to me and quite frustrating to watch. Our DL was getting beaten at the point of attack so I don't think it would have made a difference really, but just very frustrating that we weren't committing more players to stop the run and try to force them to beat us with the pass.

Tough loss. Felt like a meaningful step backward. Onto Iowa, I guess... would need to win 3/4 in order to make a bowl game.

Go Cats

 

[cattul]

Given the talk last week about Marty’s hard rehabilitation work, coming back from his injury, my guess is that the staff just wanted to limit his playing time against the Gophers. Nothing like a strict play count, but having a select few plays he could come in and run situationally.

I think most of the psychodrama posted about his playing time (on this board, in general, not referring to the OP) is based on bunk. If he is fully healthy, I’m pretty sure the next start is his.

 

[loyolacat]

Marty gets such a quick deep drop and gets time in the pocket...giving his receivers time to run deeper patterns. I thought even though we played 2 deep the safeties got into the box in a hurry...leaving DBS one on one a lot....I thought 11 had a poor game....I am not sure there will be many teams to win the battle w that offensive line...those were some of the biggest humans I have ever seen. They were kinda like a Greek Phalanx slowly marching forward and then those tiny , fast backs would just bust out....I thought the defense did a good job giving us a chance early but the offense just could not match .......the bumble, fumble score was a tough deal. and then we just had bad, ill-timed penalties and mistakes,,,,the Jefferson fumble.... and then after we get the interception...knowing we are getting the ball back to start the 2nd half.....we throw the ball 3 straight times....0-3 to give Minny another possession..................but I think this is a different season if we had started Marty from the start and had gone with the 4-3 from the start......These are coaching evaluation mistakes right?

 

[Catreporter]

I think this is a different season if we had started Marty from the start and had gone with the 4-3 from the start......These are coaching evaluation mistakes right?

With Marty at QB, we beat Duke but other than that....What's so baffling is that Johnson could look pretty good against MSU and then just melt down against Duke, and Hillinski makes some nice throws to beat Rutgers, and then the last two weeks, especially Saturday, he can't come close to open receivers when he has them.

 

[FeralFelidae]

That game was too depressing to do a full review of, but some brief thoughts:
- How did it take us this long to switch to Marty? I had thought he was still hurt which made sense. But then he came in healthy- I don't understand why he wasn't the starter to begin the game (or at the least after 1-2 ineffective possessions).

We still had multiple posters here saying we should keep playing Hilinski and not play Marty because Hilinski is the future and it's better to develop him.

If Fitz had started Marty, those posters would have been up in arms. Since Hilinski had been starting, I think Fitz had to start him and then switch to Marty in the same game to demonstrate to those people the difference in our offensive production with them under center.

Everything Fitz does gets second-guessed by the experts on the board.

 

[ricko654321]

Marty gets such a quick deep drop and gets time in the pocket...giving his receivers time to run deeper patterns. I thought even though we played 2 deep the safeties got into the box in a hurry...leaving DBS one on one a lot....I thought 11 had a poor game....I am not sure there will be many teams to win the battle w that offensive line...those were some of the biggest humans I have ever seen. They were kinda like a Greek Phalanx slowly marching forward and then those tiny , fast backs would just bust out....I thought the defense did a good job giving us a chance early but the offense just could not match .......the bumble, fumble score was a tough deal. and then we just had bad, ill-timed penalties and mistakes,,,,the Jefferson fumble.... and then after we get the interception...knowing we are getting the ball back to start the 2nd half.....we throw the ball 3 straight times....0-3 to give Minny another possession..................but I think this is a different season if we had started Marty from the start and had gone with the 4-3 from the start......These are coaching evaluation mistakes right?

Yeah agreed 11 did not play great. Think Mitchell has been the better of our two CBs this year.

Also am with you that we had a sequence of poorly timed mistakes / penalties / turnovers. But when you don't have great big play ability then each of those mistakes can easily be a drive killer. We had more of an intermediate passing game with Marty but still not much of a downfield game. Longest pass we completed was 18 yards it looks like.

 

[ricko654321]

We still had multiple posters here saying we should keep playing Hilinski and not play Marty because Hilinski is the future and it's better to develop him.

If Fitz had started Marty, those posters would have been up in arms. Since Hilinski had been starting, I think Fitz had to start him and then switch to Marty in the same game to demonstrate to those people the difference in our offensive production with them under center.

Everything Fitz does gets second-guessed by the experts on the board.

Well I have been asking for Marty, but maybe you are right. Hopefully he'll be starting next week and maybe can get us a W.

 

[phatcat]

With Marty at QB, we beat Duke but other than that....What's so baffling is that Johnson could look pretty good against MSU and then just melt down against Duke, and Hillinski makes some nice throws to beat Rutgers, and then the last two weeks, especially Saturday, he can't come close to open receivers when he has them.

Generally agree. QB is just one position, albeit a critical one. BUT...consider the last two games, I cannot imagine a scenario in which we win, but an above average QB makes a game of both of them. We were close for a while and then, the defense, already overmatched, got drilled late. Mich scored 23 2nd half points. MN had 21 4th quarter points. but - yeah, we likely beat putrid Duke with a decent QB but nobody else. 4-4 looks better than 3-5 though

 

[zeek55]

We still had multiple posters here saying we should keep playing Hilinski and not play Marty because Hilinski is the future and it's better to develop him.

If Fitz had started Marty, those posters would have been up in arms. Since Hilinski had been starting, I think Fitz had to start him and then switch to Marty in the same game to demonstrate to those people the difference in our offensive production with them under center.

Everything Fitz does gets second-guessed by the experts on the board.

That's a part of the job, but at the end of the day Fitz is the one in charge and responsible for what happens regardless of how many different opinions our fans have.

By all appearances, it has become exceedingly clear that Marty must start and play the rest of the way if he's healthy.

He's the only one that can make this offense work right now given the pieces we're missing and the issues we're having in pass protection.

There's no valid reason to do anything else unless we're just not trying to win; you worry about next year in a month or so if we don't make a bowl game.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Marty gets such a quick deep drop and gets time in the pocket...giving his receivers time to run deeper patterns. I thought even though we played 2 deep the safeties got into the box in a hurry...leaving DBS one on one a lot....I thought 11 had a poor game....I am not sure there will be many teams to win the battle w that offensive line...those were some of the biggest humans I have ever seen. They were kinda like a Greek Phalanx slowly marching forward and then those tiny , fast backs would just bust out....I thought the defense did a good job giving us a chance early but the offense just could not match .......the bumble, fumble score was a tough deal. and then we just had bad, ill-timed penalties and mistakes,,,,the Jefferson fumble.... and then after we get the interception...knowing we are getting the ball back to start the 2nd half.....we throw the ball 3 straight times....0-3 to give Minny another possession..................but I think this is a different season if we had started Marty from the start and had gone with the 4-3 from the start......These are coaching evaluation mistakes right?

That 0-3 sequence was just brutal. Looked to be open receivers on all three throws. 🤦‍♂️

 

[hdhntr1]

We still had multiple posters here saying we should keep playing Hilinski and not play Marty because Hilinski is the future and it's better to develop him.

If Fitz had started Marty, those posters would have been up in arms. Since Hilinski had been starting, I think Fitz had to start him and then switch to Marty in the same game to demonstrate to those people the difference in our offensive production with them under center.

Everything Fitz does gets second-guessed by the experts on the board.

No matter which way he goes

 

[SmellyCat]

That 0-3 sequence was just brutal. Looked to be open receivers on all three throws. 🤦‍♂️

Agreed. The one where Genson Hooper-Price was wide open on the sideline but couldn't bring it down inbounds really bugged me, as there was no reason that pass had to be that far off the mark.

While I agree that Marty is the best option, I hope he's learned that throwing the ball away on fourth down is not necessarily the best option he has. Not that he should throw an INT that would/could be returned as a pick six, but just giving up on a play and throwing it where nobody can catch it is...a choice.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Agreed. The one where Genson Hooper-Price was wide open on the sideline but couldn't bring it down inbounds really bugged me, as there was no reason that pass had to be that far off the mark.

While I agree that Marty is the best option, I hope he's learned that throwing the ball away on fourth down is not necessarily the best option he has. Not that he should throw an INT that would/could be returned as a pick six, but just giving up on a play and throwing it where nobody can catch it is...a choice.

That was probably Marty's worst play, and if nothing else, maybe he could have tucked it and tried to pick up the first down with his legs. (But we also don't want him taking unnecessary hits.)

But taking a 10-yard sack is a possible alternative that would have given the Gophers even better field position. If there's just nothing there, is throwing it away a better alternative? If he tries forcing a pass that is intercepted, then they'd have to deal with a potential run-back.

 

[willycat]

Well I have been asking for Marty, but maybe you are right. Hopefully he'll be starting next week and maybe can get us a W.

I think you and others on the board are wrongly glorifying Marty a bit. A big bit.

 

[FeralFelidae]

I think you and others on the board are wrongly glorifying Marty a bit. A big bit.

A big bit? Why is it so obvious to you? Of the top 3 QBs on our roster, why has the offense moved the best when Marty is at the helm?

 

[ricko654321]

I think you and others on the board are wrongly glorifying Marty a bit. A big bit.

It's certainly possible. I've been wrong plenty of times before. Also not trying to glorify him, it's not like he's been incredible, but to me he has seemed to be better than the other options. I think with our OL's struggles in pass protection having a mobile QB that can extend plays or throw from less comfortable setups is helpful.

 

[phatcat]

I think you and others on the board are wrongly glorifying Marty a bit. A big bit.

Point taken, although I'm not doing it a big bit. I don't think it's so much "glorifying" as, in my case, try something else. ANYTHING. What we are doing isn't working, and "executing" better isn't the answer (it never is, IMHO). We fans get frustrated because we start out with ideas/suggestions, etc., until we get so frustrated with Fitz's inaction that we start screaming for the alternative. Other coaches do, it's ok to make changes. Oklahoma benched Spencer Rattler. Heck, Fitz benched HuJo. I respect Hilinski and his talents, and he's done some good things, but, right now, with this OL, it makes sense to try a guy with running ability. Presuming he knows how to do a read-option after 5 years in the program, he will help the run (can't key on RB) and the pass (less unrelenting pressure with a successful runner).

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I think you and others on the board are wrongly glorifying Marty a bit. A big bit.

Marty still hasn't played a bad game.
If you are going to criticize a college QB who goes 10/16 for 93 yards, throws for 2 TDs and carries 7 times for 28 yards, you may want to stick to watching the NFL.

If Robinson returns to the lineup, Marty will extend plays, Robinson will get open and Marty will find him.
Until then, expect Marty to be running around, buying time, while his receivers stand there and watch.

Not sure how you can blame the QB for that.

 

[DaCat]

Marty still hasn't played a bad game.
If you are going to criticize a college QB who goes 10/16 for 93 yards, throws for 2 TDs and carries 7 times for 28 yards, you may want to stick to watching the NFL.

If Robinson returns to the lineup, Marty will extend plays, Robinson will get open and Marty will find him.
Until then, expect Marty to be running around, buying time, while his receivers stand there and watch.

Not sure how you can blame the QB for that.

@willycat has been a Marty hater from day one, so take his comments with a grain of salt.
One thing noticeable in the Minny game was after Marty ran the ball a few times, Minny had to respect his legs and so Marty had a lot more time to pass. He definitely brings another dimension to the offense.

 

[ricko654321]

@willycat has been a Marty hater from day one, so take his comments with a grain of salt.
One thing noticeable in the Minny game was after Marty ran the ball a few times, Minny had to respect his legs and so Marty had a lot more time to pass. He definitely brings another dimension to the offense.

Precisely. Hilinski could be a better QB for a different type of situation. But for our current situation, it feels like Marty gives us a better chance.

We will see though - Iowa and Wisconsin D these next two weeks are going to be very difficult for any of our QBs, given our current OL situation and limited playmakers at WR. It wouldn't shock me if over the next 1-2 weeks some folks decide that Marty is also a terrible QB... then who will we blame??

 

[DaCat]

Precisely. Hilinski could be a better QB for a different type of situation. But for our current situation, it feels like Marty gives us a better chance.

We will see though - Iowa and Wisconsin D these next two weeks are going to be very difficult for any of our QBs, given our current OL situation and limited playmakers at WR. It wouldn't shock me if over the next 1-2 weeks some folks decide that Marty is also a terrible QB... then who will we blame??

There's already a groundswell of murmuring for Richardson to play more. LOL. Thus proving the theory that the backup QB is always the best QB on the roster.

 

[NREPP Fraud]

We were a bowl team if Marty played every game this year! Hillinski needs more roll out options