Got to be frustrating for the team to battle so well and come up just short . Be Mac dribbled into a crowd and was dispossessed trying to do a behind the back move with the score tied and about 25 seconds left . Butler won on a last-second shot
Butler game . Good battle , bad outcome
- Thread starter LansingCat
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I thought they really played well. If we play like that on the road, we will win our share. Butler is a good team, probably close to a top 25.
We need a little more oomph in the middle. The sooner we can get 10 minutes out of Benson, the better.
I'm really encouraged by the skilled athletes we can put out there all over the floor. That's without Falzon yet and Benson will work his way into some good minutes. We'll get beat up some on the defensive boards by the good teams but not as bad as in the past. This team will be pretty damn good this year. I think I. Brown is going to be a very good scorer and will have a great freshman year.
Butler doesn't have the talent to be a top 25 team. We beat ourselves today, turnovers and giving up offensive rebounds. I will be shocked if that Butler team makes the tourney. We should have buried them in the first half, but we gave them 4-5 easy layups on turnovers and a few easy putbacks.
I like our potential but we have to close out games.
I'm with Jeffrey Cat, I thought they played well. This is a good team. Hope to add "very" to that in the next few weeks. Completely different defensive team with Law on the floor, Lindsey dialed in and Skelly going nuts.
The refs gave Pardon nothing. He lost every 50/50 call. They did get his fifth foul right.
Turnovers were bad. Um, you don't dribble behind your back with two defenders on you ten feet from the basket. Cuz your gonna turn the ball over and that's exactly what happened.
When BMacs assist to turn over ratio is one to one its amazing the Cats were in it at the end.
Isiah Brown is going to be as good a scorer as NU has had at the guard spot in a long time. Too bad this was his third game. He needs a few games to settle down a little but the kid is good. Smoove.
I'm a huge Falzon supporter. Hope he gets healthy real quick. Cats can use him.
Hate the loss. Like the team and effort.
The refs gave Pardon nothing. He lost every 50/50 call. They did get his fifth foul right.
Turnovers were bad. Um, you don't dribble behind your back with two defenders on you ten feet from the basket. Cuz your gonna turn the ball over and that's exactly what happened.
When BMacs assist to turn over ratio is one to one its amazing the Cats were in it at the end.
Isiah Brown is going to be as good a scorer as NU has had at the guard spot in a long time. Too bad this was his third game. He needs a few games to settle down a little but the kid is good. Smoove.
I'm a huge Falzon supporter. Hope he gets healthy real quick. Cats can use him.
Hate the loss. Like the team and effort.
Big Ten backcourt, MAC front court. That's what I see when I watch this NU team. B Mac, Law, Lindsey and Brown match up pretty well with most guards/wings in the league. Pardon, Skelley, Lumpkin are just guys. They fill space, play their roles, but don't have the strength, length and athleticism to hold their own against quality competition. Butler's front court was average st best, but they dominated tonight.
This Cats team will be fun to watch and I expect them to be competitive most nights. But until we recruit better athletes up front I don't see NU making the dance.
This Cats team will be fun to watch and I expect them to be competitive most nights. But until we recruit better athletes up front I don't see NU making the dance.
I'm extremely disappointed.
We had four juniors and a senior out there the last five minutes and couldn't find a way to win. Can't use youth as an excuse. We have to get tougher.
We had four juniors and a senior out there the last five minutes and couldn't find a way to win. Can't use youth as an excuse. We have to get tougher.
If Northwestern has the talent to be in the tourney with this group, so does Butler. That kid who dominated Mac? Second college game. Their starting pg was a McDonald's all American. Their pf who badly missed that dunk nearly put up 30 against Virginia last year. They were without their second best player tonight as well. The Cats have Benson, they have a freshman center ranked higher than Benson. Kelan Martin is one of the best scorers in the country.
Every year people say they don't have to the talent to be in the top 25 and then every other year they're in the top 10. Cats looked great in the second half. Law is an all big ten player. Cats dealt some body blows, the Dawgs just stood back up every time. It was a great game.
I'm going to keep this simple.
Lots of good in this one, but some thing to work on also. It wasn't a perfect game by NU by any stretch.
But sh*t!! That last shot!! He was well defended and still drained it!!
Lots of good in this one, but some thing to work on also. It wasn't a perfect game by NU by any stretch.
But sh*t!! That last shot!! He was well defended and still drained it!!
I think you have it reversed: if Butler can be a tournament team, so can NU. I didn't think so before watching them play the Dogs, but this is a solid NU team. I still think they fall short this season because of a short bench in the front court, but it should be a fun ride if and when Falzon gets his knees healthy. I believe Collins said he was battling tendonitis, and from my own experience with tendonitis in the knees the only real cure is rest, ice and plenty of Rx anti-inflammatories (diclofenac is my AI of choice).
From what I saw last night, the team is much improved compared to the last couple seasons. When we lost the close ones the last years against good teams, it always felt we were only in those games because Tre Demps was hot or we were daring them to shoot 3s and the other team was missing. This game we were in it because the team was legitimately playing well with a balanced offense and strong D.
I felt like Butler got the benefit of the doubt being at home on a few calls and that might have been enough to tip the game their way. Overall, I'm very encouraged with this team. If the guys can take a little bit better care of the ball and avoid foul trouble, I think this is a bubble team. And I'm not just saying that, these guys look good.
I felt like Butler got the benefit of the doubt being at home on a few calls and that might have been enough to tip the game their way. Overall, I'm very encouraged with this team. If the guys can take a little bit better care of the ball and avoid foul trouble, I think this is a bubble team. And I'm not just saying that, these guys look good.
He was NOT well defended and that's what bums me out.
I get the need around here to be encouraged by hanging with Butler last night, but close losses aren't going to cut it. Not if this team wants to finally break through. They need to learn how to win. We don't have a player that can win the game by themselves, so why not set up an actual play there at the end? We are at our best when we move the ball around, so why change that on the last shot? BMac is good, but he is not a shot creator. That is poor coaching.
Then on the defensive end, that was just terrible execution by Skelley. There were 5 seconds left when the Butler PG made his move. There were about 3 seconds left when he went over that high screen. Skelley should have closed out on that kid right away. Instead, he hesitated and left him room to pull up for the shot. He hesitated because he was afraid the PG would go around him. So what???!!! There were 2 seconds left at that point. The only play the PG had was to pull up and shoot a jumper. And Skelley should have had enough court presence to know that. Make the kid drive all the way around you. He won't have time to get off a good shot. Instead, by not closing out hard, you give up the winner.
Those are the kind of things that winning teams do. We rarely seem to make that play... on either end. If that doesn't change, then we'll continue to be that feisty team that everyone says nice things about while walking away with a victory and leaving us watching on tv again in March. It is just soooo frustrating.
Guess NU isn't going to go undefeated! But seriously, I am hopeful this is a step in doing exactly what you say: learning how to win the close games. First NU actually has to be in competitive close games, not fluky games where the opponent has an off night and some NU player has a career night (see Coble, Kevin at MSU many years ago). Experiences like last night will make NU stronger, and next season I definitely see NU in the Tournament, baring injuries!
Most of the turnovers by BMAC were not unforced errors. They focused on him, double teaming him in lots of different situations. Other teams will see this. We will have to work on a response. Either Bmac and Brown together or can Lindsey or Law become more trusted with the the ball ?
BINGO! BMac has got to find the open man when that happens. He is going to be a focus of the other team's defense and he is NOT Michael Jordan.
I'm with you. Skelly gave all sorts of space.
That one was so winnable. Butler is a good team in a good conference, but NU had them on the ropes.
Most frustrating is the turnover that led to the game-winner. I'm all for letting your veteran point guard just run the offense in that situation - as long as it results in a shot...
Agree that turnovers were the deciding stat but Mac uses that behind the back dribble a couple of times per game and he just didn't seem himself last night. Brown is definitely a shooter but needs to calm down a bit and yes Falzon is needed, especially taking away minutes from Lumpkin and Taphorn.
Wondering why a 5, Skelly was defending their point guard in that situation. Was it because of a late switch or just in the wrong D?
He had the ball taken away from him more in this game than any I can remember in his entire time here
BMac definitely did not have a good game by any standard, including his own, which is high. Was not solid with the rock and seemed indecisive at several key occasions. Will be interesting to see how he plays against Texas as that game provides an instant opportunity for redemption.
I have no complaint about how Skelly defended that last shot. He closed out appropriately and the dude hit a monster shot. If he had overcommitted to prevent the shot, the guy (who was their PG) would've easily dribbled around him and taken a much easier pull up jumper, or dished off for a GW layup or something of an even worse nature from NU's standpoint. I can live with how that transpired. What irked me was that poor last possession on offense, not even getting a shot, which was reminiscent of our last full offensive possession in the Big Ten tourney against Michigan in OT when BMac dribbled into trouble and turned it over w/o us even getting a shot off (setting up Michigan's game winner/season ender for NU).
I have no complaint about how Skelly defended that last shot. He closed out appropriately and the dude hit a monster shot. If he had overcommitted to prevent the shot, the guy (who was their PG) would've easily dribbled around him and taken a much easier pull up jumper, or dished off for a GW layup or something of an even worse nature from NU's standpoint. I can live with how that transpired. What irked me was that poor last possession on offense, not even getting a shot, which was reminiscent of our last full offensive possession in the Big Ten tourney against Michigan in OT when BMac dribbled into trouble and turned it over w/o us even getting a shot off (setting up Michigan's game winner/season ender for NU).
I think it was BMac, but regardless, you are right. There was a high screen and Skelly hesitated waiting to see if BMac would get over the screen. Don't hesitate! Double team the ball if you have to. There wasn't time for him to find the open man and then get up a good shot. That was do-or-die time and they did and we died.
I was surprised Lindsey was so quick to switch. It seems he may have been able to fight through what was weak screen with the screener immediately drifting further out.
He left Skelly with a good bit of space and, as someone else wrote, Skelly never really closed the gap.
No.... that is what you do with two minutes left in the game, but not two seconds. There wasn't time for the PG to drive way around Skelly, nor dish it off. That is the point of why I am upset. He needs to know the situation and react accordingly. With two seconds left, the man with the ball is where all your attention should be.
However he saw this all last year. It was the same thing many teams did last year. He needs to adjust quickly rather than what he did last night.
Totally disagree, a quick PG had more than enough time with about 3 secs left to get from that spot near the top of the key to the hole in time. Remember, the ball only has to leave the shooter's hand before 0:00. He shot that rainbow arching shot and there was still 0.5 secs left on the clock AFTER it went through the net.
After looking at the highlights again, you're completely right. Skelly was there, but he needed to be another step and a half closer.
You're also right about needing to win these games. Collins said it in the pre-season, but it requires more than the hustle and attitude. You saw it in Butler last night. They do those things. NU doesn't.
OTOH, that was a different NU team we saw last night compared to previous years. They have some things to work on, but there are multiple good scoring options.
However, they need work on defense.
Good game, would have been great had they pulled it out at Hinkle. Looked like a great rowdy crowd.
My concern with this team is size on the inside. Pardon looks trim, Benson's time in the game was a disaster --- he is skinny and looked overmatched, and Skelly is a PF. The B1G is big. The big guys on Butler weren't that tall but were much thicker and stronger. It was noticeable.
Either way --- I'm all in. Lets do it Coach Collins! Lets make history this year! Maybe we could dig up the stuffed monkey that Fitz was toting around.
My concern with this team is size on the inside. Pardon looks trim, Benson's time in the game was a disaster --- he is skinny and looked overmatched, and Skelly is a PF. The B1G is big. The big guys on Butler weren't that tall but were much thicker and stronger. It was noticeable.
Either way --- I'm all in. Lets do it Coach Collins! Lets make history this year! Maybe we could dig up the stuffed monkey that Fitz was toting around.
I don't think his worry about fouling out was so much the issue - at that point he would have happily fouled out to keep us in the game and get it OT. The problem was if you foul, even not on the shot, you basically give them a free win since they were already in double bonus. That's why, to someone's complaint above, he didn't hedge out hard on the screen - because of the way they were calling that all day there was too high of a chance of giving up a cheapie and losing the game because of it in my opinion.
Anyways, overall reflections...
- BMac did not have his best game. Still made a decent amount of good plays, but as we've seen he gets lazy with his dribble at times and that led to too many turnovers. One which was particularly obvious and painful.
- Brown as with the last game - flashes lots of upside as a scorer but still young and raw, he had a couple of avoidable turnovers.
- Multiple of Pardon's fouls (and others called against us, particularly in the 2H) were pretty questionable, they def got the benefit of the doubt. But I guess with the early season officiating that's going to happen, especially when playing on the road in a place like that. I do stand by that our guys are doing a better job of moving their feet generally and avoiding using their hands except when explicitly blocking, but the inconsistency of the early season reffing always makes these games frustrating and sometimes disjointed.
- Skelly gave a few solid minutes. I like Pardon scooping up the garbage points underneath. But... we don't really have a low post scoring threat. Or at the least, the guards never seem to look to get them the ball there.
- When they hedge out and double against the screens, we need to move the ball more quickly and sharply to the open man, BMac is part of that but it's everyone. Once he gives it up we need to take advantage of the 4 on 3 on the rest of the court. We did a couple times to get open 3s and one beatiful set of interior passing where Sanjay (?) dished it to Skelly (?) for a layup but not enough.
Overall, it was great to see us go toe to toe to them, and honestly I thought we might have been the better team by just the slightest of margins. We did a great job of bouncing back from their run early in 2H. Unfortunately just not quite enough. Martin played well. Nice shot on the GW by their kid.
Have a few more opportunities to get that big OOC win - would like to get 1-2 out of Texas, Colo/ND, and Dayton. Plus hopefully win against Wake and DePaul.
Skelly could have done better, but Baldwin killed them off the drive last night. He beats skelly and he has an open layup or the weak side defender has to slide over, creating a passing lane for another layup.
Secondly, if you look at the play, Kelan Martin was sliding up from the wing, if he gets too close to Baldwin, Baldwin could body him up enough on a andoff for Martin to get a open look off a curl.
Finally, on last possession plays, you switch everything typically. "Getting over" or "under" (you don't "fight through screens") works when the offense is looking to set up a play. In ISO situations you switch to take away clear looks.
Secondly, if you look at the play, Kelan Martin was sliding up from the wing, if he gets too close to Baldwin, Baldwin could body him up enough on a andoff for Martin to get a open look off a curl.
Finally, on last possession plays, you switch everything typically. "Getting over" or "under" (you don't "fight through screens") works when the offense is looking to set up a play. In ISO situations you switch to take away clear looks.
I agree with your last statement. Skelly should have had no doubt in his mind to come out hard on the ball handler. It appeared he hesitated for a second, not sure if he should leave his man.
Oh well..... I've beaten this into the ground. Just disappointing. Its hard to believe we'll ever turn the corner until we finally do.
I don't know that that's what he meant with his post, I think you read what you wanted to read. It seemed like he was saying that Skelly played decent defense on him (which I agree with), and if he had overplayed up top he opens up vulnerability to the drive.
But regardless it's just 1 play out of like 140 possessions in the game. I think more importantly- relax it's just one game. Losing one close one to a good team is no more cause for panic than would be winning one close one over a good team. I didn't get the impression personally that we lost because we cracked under the pressure, in fact I thought we generally stepped up our play in the last 8 minutes of the game, we just ended up one play short. We will have about 10 of these coin flip games this season and most likely we will win 4-5 out of the remaining 9. If we win 1-2 then you'll have a case that we don't know how to make the clutch play (or else we got unlucky). If we win 7-8 of them then maybe we have figured it out due to great leadership (or else we got lucky). Regardless, if the latter happens we may find ourselves playing postseason. My goal out of the preseason is still to get at least 1 and ideally 2 top 50 wins, we still have 3 more opportunities (Texas Dayton and prob Colo) and one more for a top 75-100 win (WF).
One more thing about your post, TheC.
I generally agree with where you're going. I agree they need to get to that level, and those extras are missing. However, I wonder if you're looking for a realistic level of play from this group this early in the season.
We're looking at a seven-man rotation, five of whom played less than 20 mins/game last year in the conference ... and Lumpkin.
Five of Butler's top seven guys played at least 20 minutes a game last year. The lowest of which was 25 mins/game.
I'm not big on the whole moral victory thing, but yesterday was a good direction for this group.
I generally agree with where you're going. I agree they need to get to that level, and those extras are missing. However, I wonder if you're looking for a realistic level of play from this group this early in the season.
We're looking at a seven-man rotation, five of whom played less than 20 mins/game last year in the conference ... and Lumpkin.
Five of Butler's top seven guys played at least 20 minutes a game last year. The lowest of which was 25 mins/game.
I'm not big on the whole moral victory thing, but yesterday was a good direction for this group.
I hear ya'. I think I just feel like wallowing in my misery a little longer. I'm sure I'll be back in front of a screen on Monday night. I've been following this team for nearly 30 years now, so I'm not stopping now.
Fair enough. But when I finally get my big chance to be the head coach at Northwestern, I'll tell my guys to close out hard on the ball with under 3 seconds left! (Of course, we'd be down by 50 at that point if I were in charge)
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