Can our recruiting ever rival Barnett's classes?

[Turk]

Prior to the Rose Bowl year, I was amazed that a NU coach could get a top 24 ranking in recruiting. I think it was '94. Then after 2 championships, Coach Barnett gets the #15th rated class. The year he left, he was in line to rake in another stud class with C Brown, Gabe Nyhenuis, etc but bailed out.
His recruiting brought us the fab 5, and another big ten championship in 2000.

Since then, no championships as our recruiting has been below his established champnship levels.

I'm not convinced of those who claim that NU can't reach those levels again. Of course they can, Barnett had a crappy stadium, and a mud hole for practice.

There is some light as things seem to be moving forward with a #40 ranked class, but as a fan, I want it back. Back the way it was with Barnett and the top 20 classes!

That said, our recruiting has been good enough on our "No Name Defense" to maybe make us favorites for the championship next year.

 

[FanatiCat]

I think it’s really hard to say whether those class rankings can really be compared. The ranking services and methods and the player ratings are very different. By which service were we ranked top 25? The old rankings (think bkaiser recruiting page) mention a lot about SuperPrep AA and Parade AA but now it is generally all Rivals and “Denny’s.”

 

[hdhntr1]

Prior to the Rose Bowl year, I was amazed that a NU coach could get a top 24 ranking in recruiting. I think it was '94. Then after 2 championships, Coach Barnett gets the #15th rated class. The year he left, he was in line to rake in another stud class with C Brown, Gabe Nyhenuis, etc but bailed out.
His recruiting brought us the fab 5, and another big ten championship in 2000.

Since then, no championships as our recruiting has been below his established champnship levels.

I'm not convinced of those who claim that NU can't reach those levels again. Of course they can, Barnett had a crappy stadium, and a mud hole for practice.

There is some light as things seem to be moving forward with a #40 ranked class, but as a fan, I want it back. Back the way it was with Barnett and the top 20 classes!

That said, our recruiting has been good enough on our "No Name Defense" to maybe make us favorites for the championship next year.

This year's BIG West title was the equiv of two of those three championships. 8-1 would have been a three way tie by the old rules. Better than the 6-2 3 way tie in 2000 and equal to the 7-1 tie in 1996. In none of the three did we play OSU.

Yes Barnett and his staff were excellent recruiters. But as far as guys at that level, they are really pretty rare. In the current crop of HCs you have Meyer, Sabin, Sweenie and maybe a couple more so I would suggest stop wishing for it. Fitz and company offer solid and sustainable recruiting that seems to be getting better. Enjoy it for what it is

 

[Turk]

I think it’s really hard to say whether those class rankings can really be compared. The ranking services and methods and the player ratings are very different. By which service were we ranked top 25? The old rankings (think bkaiser recruiting page) mention a lot about SuperPrep AA and Parade AA but now it is generally all Rivals and “Denny’s.”

The most reputable services in those days had us ranked #15 with several Top 100 players in that one class, and a few near misses. I was bummed when we didn't get the one DE that went to MSU. Darrell Campbell I think?? And we missed out on Kustok but we later nabbed him and Roehl, both top 100 recruits but never counted in our top 15 class. There was a reason why we won the Big.

 

[Turk]

This year's BIG West title was the equiv of two of those three championships. 8-1 would have been a three way tie by the old rules. Better than the 6-2 3 way tie in 2000 and equal to the 7-1 tie in 1996. In none of the three did we play OSU.

Yes Barnett and his staff were excellent recruiters. But as far as guys at that level, they are really pretty rare. In the current crop of HCs you have Meyer, Sabin, Sweenie and maybe a couple more so I would suggest stop wishing for it. Fitz and company offer solid and sustainable recruiting that seems to be getting better. Enjoy it for what it is

Nah, it's ludicrous for us to stop wishing to improve upon our recruiting. Plus, I think Fitz can be better than Barnett. I think your reasoning is silly. My thinking is that we are trending well and we will get back to the top in recruiting.

 

[hdhntr1]

Nah, it's ludicrous for us to stop wishing to improve upon our recruiting. Plus, I think Fitz can be better than Barnett. I think your reasoning is silly. My thinking is that we are trending well and we will get back to the top in recruiting.

Not saying that better recruiting is not a worthy goal. FItz is a good recruiter. But not the superstar guy that Barnett and certain others are but very solid and steadily improving. Much of recruiting has to do with the rest of the staff and improving there will likely help us continue to improve. As of now, we have a couple guys that really do not recruit well and have had to replace a couple guys that were pretty good. How well we replace guys has a lot to do with our continued climb in the rankings.

 

[pawildcat]

The most reputable services in those days had us ranked #15 with several Top 100 players in that one class, and a few near misses. I was bummed when we didn't get the one DE that went to MSU. Darrell Campbell I think?? And we missed out on Kustok but we later nabbed him and Roehl, both top 100 recruits but never counted in our top 15 class. There was a reason why we won the Big.

If that class was really that good, there is a good argument that NU actually underperformed that year. Actually went 8-4 (Fitz has won 9 or 10 games five times), did tie for the title in a relatively weak B1G (losing to a bad Iowa team in the process) and then humiliated 66-17 by Nebraska in the bowl game. That's not what you should be doing with a top 15 class.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I only started following our recruiting about 5 years ago, but my sense is that it has gotten much more competitive since Barnett's tenure. The rise of Nike camps, digital media, etc. has made it easier to scout more players remotely, increasing exposure and competition. Football has also become a much more valuable media property since that time, and many institutions recognize the branding value of their athletics programs.

A top 15 type class pretty much requires that half of the class be 4* or higher (roughly speaking). Given that the pool of 4* and 5* players typically numbers about 250-300 in most years, you almost have to land a few 5* types to crack the top 15.

NU is also challenged by a declining high end talent pool in Illinois. We tend to do very well in-state, but the demographic trends of this country suggest we will continue to have to find our best players from Texas and other places outside Illinois.

In short, the industry is much more competitive, and the rankings numbers make it thus NU will be challenged to recruit a top 15-type class (though i think it may be possible).

 

[zeek55]

To add to @Hungry Jack is saying, I'd just add that the most important thing to recruits is media buzz and getting to big stages and winning those games.


If we win a Big Ten championship game and/or a NY6 bowl, that would likely result in at least a couple 4+ star recruits coming to Evanston.

This sport has always worked like that.

Stanford's recruiting kicked into really high gear the past decade because of their Pac-12 championships and NY6 bowl wins.

That's a key part for us given we target a very narrow slice of the top recruits anyways.


So ultimately the answer is yes we can get classes like that here, but it requires us to win big.

 

[SchizoCat1]

Prior to the Rose Bowl year, I was amazed that a NU coach could get a top 24 ranking in recruiting. I think it was '94. Then after 2 championships, Coach Barnett gets the #15th rated class. The year he left, he was in line to rake in another stud class with C Brown, Gabe Nyhenuis, etc but bailed out.
His recruiting brought us the fab 5, and another big ten championship in 2000.

Since then, no championships as our recruiting has been below his established champnship levels.

I'm not convinced of those who claim that NU can't reach those levels again. Of course they can, Barnett had a crappy stadium, and a mud hole for practice.

There is some light as things seem to be moving forward with a #40 ranked class, but as a fan, I want it back. Back the way it was with Barnett and the top 20 classes!

That said, our recruiting has been good enough on our "No Name Defense" to maybe make us favorites for the championship next year.

When Barnett bailed out, we also lost John Navarre, who decommitted to Michigan (and we beat him in the 54-51 game) and Jack Sprague, who I believe started at DE or DT for Wisconsin.

 

[GOUNUII]

Prior to the Rose Bowl year, I was amazed that a NU coach could get a top 24 ranking in recruiting. I think it was '94. Then after 2 championships, Coach Barnett gets the #15th rated class. The year he left, he was in line to rake in another stud class with C Brown, Gabe Nyhenuis, etc but bailed out.
His recruiting brought us the fab 5, and another big ten championship in 2000.

Since then, no championships as our recruiting has been below his established champnship levels.

I'm not convinced of those who claim that NU can't reach those levels again. Of course they can, Barnett had a crappy stadium, and a mud hole for practice.

There is some light as things seem to be moving forward with a #40 ranked class, but as a fan, I want it back. Back the way it was with Barnett and the top 20 classes!

That said, our recruiting has been good enough on our "No Name Defense" to maybe make us favorites for the championship next year.

I followed the recruiting during the Barnett years very closely and was close to the program at that time and through the Walker years.

Barnett won big with his 1993 and 1994 classes, together with some key Peay holdovers. Those classes received little recruiting attention and were full of lightly recruited 2 and a few 3 star players... many of whom went on to play like 4 and 5 star studs. Great prospect evaluations, player development and all the little things that go into great coaching produced the success of 1995 and 1996.

Barnett's 1995 recruiting class ... coming off consecutive poor seasons ... was the worst class imaginable. A total whiff. One that would come back to haunt Barnett in 1997 and 1998.

The 1996 class won big in 2000 because of Kevin Wilson and Randy Walker and Zack Kustoc. For one year, nobody could figure out the offense even as the defense was a total sieve. Barnett's recruits filled the roster and were instrumental, but none of that single season success happens without the one year wonder that was the 2000 NU spread offense orchestrated by the new coaches and a fearless transfer QB from ND. Thank you Lou Holtz.

Barnett recruited just 1 QB in his 7 years you could win with. A lightly recruited little guy out of St. Louis in the 1992 class. And it wasn't until his 5th year that you could reasonably say he was a difference maker. Didn't play his first 3 years. Was not asked to do much in his 4th year starting for the first time. And then, with 4 years of player development had a terrific 1996 season. 2 years from 1 QB in 7 years of recruiting is a key recruiting failure. Combine it with missing on an entire class and the slide back to the 1998 winless BIG season was in motion at the end of the 1996 campaign.

Would not have traded Barnett for anybody else at that time in history. He authored the most improbable turn around of a college football program in the history of the game. Just saying that his recruiting had its ups and downs. The ups weren't as high as advertised and the downs were so low it didn't take long for the balloon to burst.

GOUNUII

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

I followed the recruiting during the Barnett years very closely and was close to the program at that time and through the Walker years.

Barnett won big with his 1993 and 1994 classes, together with some key Peay holdovers. Those classes received little recruiting attention and were full of lightly recruited 2 and a few 3 star players... many of whom went on to play like 4 and 5 star studs. Great prospect evaluations, player development and all the little things that go into great coaching produced the success of 1995 and 1996.

Barnett's 1995 recruiting class ... coming off consecutive poor seasons ... was the worst class imaginable. A total whiff. One that would come back to haunt Barnett in 1997 and 1998.

The 1996 class won big in 2000 because of Kevin Wilson and Randy Walker and Zack Kustoc. For one year, nobody could figure out the offense even as the defense was a total sieve. Barnett's recruits filled the roster and were instrumental, but none of that single season success happens without the one year wonder that was the 2000 NU spread offense orchestrated by the new coaches and a fearless transfer QB from ND. Thank you Lou Holtz.

Barnett recruited just 1 QB in his 7 years you could win with. A lightly recruited little guy out of St. Louis in the 1992 class. And it wasn't until his 5th year that you could reasonably say he was a difference maker. Didn't play his first 3 years. Was not asked to do much in his 4th year starting for the first time. And then, with 4 years of player development had a terrific 1996 season. 2 years from 1 QB in 7 years of recruiting is a key recruiting failure. Combine it with missing on an entire class and the slide back to the 1998 winless BIG season was in motion at the end of the 1996 campaign.

Would not have traded Barnett for anybody else at that time in history. He authored the most improbable turn around of a college football program in the history of the game. Just saying that his recruiting had its ups and downs. The ups weren't as high as advertised and the downs were so low it didn't take long for the balloon to burst.

GOUNUII

Very accurate portrayal of NU recruiting throughout the Ages. The 1995 class is somewhat bitter sweet for me (the Dirty Dozen). As far as the 1996, 1997 classes, I think you're selling them a bit short - that was probably the best time frame (recruiting wise) in NU history - DA2, Napo and the Fab 5 to name a few. things have changed SO much over the years it's tough to compare classes from that far back to today.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Very accurate portrayal of NU recruiting throughout the Ages. The 1995 class is somewhat bitter sweet for me (the Dirty Dozen). As far as the 1996, 1997 classes, I think you're selling them a bit short - that was probably the best time frame (recruiting wise) in NU history - DA2, Napo and the Fab 5 to name a few. things have changed SO much over the years it's tough to compare classes from that far back to today.

Who were the "Fab 5?" A group of linemen? Please enlighten me!

 

[Chuckster1973]

If Nebraska and especially Purdue can be top 25 classes, which they apparently are this year, we should be able to do it. I expect that we will.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Who were the "Fab 5?" A group of linemen? Please enlighten me!

Yes - 5 highly regarded OL - Souza, Clelland, Fay, Brockmeier and Collins. Class was rated 4th in the Big Ten.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-06-9702060047-story.html

 

[gocatsgo2003]

If Nebraska and especially Purdue can be top 25 classes, which they apparently are this year, we should be able to do it. I expect that we will.

I’ll settle for top 25 on the field instead.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Yes - 5 highly regarded OL - Souza, Clelland, Fay, Brockmeier and Collins. Class was rated 4th in the Big Ten.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-06-9702060047-story.html

Got it. That was a good group. IIRC, Clelland, Brockmeier (RIP) and Collins all made an NFL roster. Collins switched to DT at NU, but the Cowboys moved him back to guard in the League.

 

[FanatiCat]

Who were the "Fab 5?" A group of linemen? Please enlighten me!

A group of highly regarded OL. My memory fails me and don’t have time to look it up. Adam Fay from Iowa, some kid from Hawaii, and obviously 3 others. However, none of them were able to step in right away like a Rashawn Slater, as our OL was terrible in 98 and 99.

 

[FloridAlum]

Got it. That was a good group. IIRC, Clelland, Brockmeier (RIP) and Collins all made an NFL roster. Collins switched to DT at NU, but the Cowboys moved him back to guard in the League.

You are confusing him with Javier Collins.Same last name, different guy, several years later

It seems to me that Joe Collins never played very much, and I also seem to remember that Adam Fay had a lot of problems with knee injuries.

 

[NJCat]

Got it. That was a good group. IIRC, Clelland, Brockmeier (RIP) and Collins all made an NFL roster. Collins switched to DT at NU, but the Cowboys moved him back to guard in the League.

Brockmeier was a stud at WR in his later years.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

A group of highly regarded OL. My memory fails me and don’t have time to look it up. Adam Fay from Iowa, some kid from Hawaii, and obviously 3 others. However, none of them were able to step in right away like a Rashawn Slater, as our OL was terrible in 98 and 99.

Souza was #1 rated player in Hawaii and turned down USC. Fay was injured and never reached his potential. In addition to the fab 5, Jeff Roehl transferred here from Notre Dame along with ZK and John Cerasini. All 3 were All American on Prepstar.

 

[Hungry Jack]

You are confusing him with Javier Collins.Same last name, different guy, several years later

It seems to me that Joe Collins never played very much, and I also seem to remember that Adam Fay had a lot of problems with knee injuries.

Jeez. Got me. Javier Collins was a very good DT his final season. The Cowboys tried to make him a guard.

 

[BleedingPurple15]

The recruiting environment is very different now than it was back then.

 

[FanatiCat]

Another point to consider. In the mid 90s the acceptance rate at NU was like 40% I think. It is now like 8%. Has this affected the acceptance of football recruits through admissions, or are the standards the same (which is still higher than every FBS program except Stanford)?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Jeez. Got me. Javier Collins was a very good DT his final season. The Cowboys tried to make him a guard.

Worked out OK. He started a handful of games.

 

[Gladeskat]

Barnett's highest ranked class was in 1997

Got it. That was a good group. IIRC, Clelland, Brockmeier (RIP) and Collins all made an NFL roster. Collins switched to DT at NU, but the Cowboys moved him back to guard in the League.

None made an NFL roster. Some were practice squad players. Huge Joe Collins had to retire because of injuries.

 

[Alaskawildkat]

There was a certain magic to Barnett’s recruiting. A father whose son excelled on his high school football team here in remote Alaska commented to me what an honor it would be if his son could play for Coach Barnett. I don’t think he or his son had ever heard of Northwestern before the Rose Bowl year.

 

[FrancisSearle75]

Remember Lloyd Abramson? I remember reading that he was one of the top 3 prep quarterbacks when he signed with Barnett and NU. A Hunter Johnson of his time?

Here are links to Brad Kaiser's old recruiting website that I used to check frequently back in the day. The names bring back old memories.

1996-1998 Signees
http://web.archive.org/web/20031231232918/http://www.acelink.net:80/users/bkaiser/nu_recr_retro.html

1999 Signeees
http://web.archive.org/web/20031204153618/http://www.acelink.net:80/users/bkaiser/nu_recr.html

 

[torque-cat]

Recruiting is already better now. The talent top to bottom is better now than what emerged from even those heady post rose bowl classes. Thorson, Paddy, Hartage, JJ, Slater, the amazing DL guys in recent years are as good as the top guys from those days. And the depth of talent is no comparison.

Unless you are looking for "recruiting rankings" and not the actual on-field talent and performance of the players.

Prior to the Rose Bowl year, I was amazed that a NU coach could get a top 24 ranking in recruiting. I think it was '94. Then after 2 championships, Coach Barnett gets the #15th rated class. The year he left, he was in line to rake in another stud class with C Brown, Gabe Nyhenuis, etc but bailed out.
His recruiting brought us the fab 5, and another big ten championship in 2000.

Since then, no championships as our recruiting has been below his established champnship levels.

I'm not convinced of those who claim that NU can't reach those levels again. Of course they can, Barnett had a crappy stadium, and a mud hole for practice.

There is some light as things seem to be moving forward with a #40 ranked class, but as a fan, I want it back. Back the way it was with Barnett and the top 20 classes!

That said, our recruiting has been good enough on our "No Name Defense" to maybe make us favorites for the championship next year.

 

[Turk]

Remember Lloyd Abramson? I remember reading that he was one of the top 3 prep quarterbacks when he signed with Barnett and NU. A Hunter Johnson of his time?

Here are links to Brad Kaiser's old recruiting website that I used to check frequently back in the day. The names bring back old memories.

1996-1998 Signees
http://web.archive.org/web/20031231232918/http://www.acelink.net:80/users/bkaiser/nu_recr_retro.html

1999 Signeees
http://web.archive.org/web/20031204153618/http://www.acelink.net:80/users/bkaiser/nu_recr.html

I remember Tom Obrian was the star of that awesome class, a Top 50 recruit. Never played a down.
When Barnett left, he may have been putting together a Top 10 class. We lost Navarre immediately, and then our stud DL recruit Craig Albreight First-Team All-American selection by Parade Magazine, Named to PrepStar Magazine's "Dream Team" ESPN tabbed Craig as the 33rd best prep player in the nation

 

[Gladeskat]

We lost Navarre immediately, and then our stud DL recruit Craig Albreight First-Team All-American selection by Parade Magazine, Named to PrepStar Magazine's "Dream Team" ESPN tabbed Craig as the 33rd best prep player in the nation

Albrecht became a backup DL on mediocre Stanford teams.

 

[willycat]

To add to @Hungry Jack is saying, I'd just add that the most important thing to recruits is media buzz and getting to big stages and winning those games.


If we win a Big Ten championship game and/or a NY6 bowl, that would likely result in at least a couple 4+ star recruits coming to Evanston.

This sport has always worked like that.

Stanford's recruiting kicked into really high gear the past decade because of their Pac-12 championships and NY6 bowl wins.

That's a key part for us given we target a very narrow slice of the top recruits anyways.


So ultimately the answer is yes we can get classes like that here, but it requires us to win big.

Also you forgot to add a stadium packed with home teams fans.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I think it’s really hard to say whether those class rankings can really be compared. The ranking services and methods and the player ratings are very different. By which service were we ranked top 25? The old rankings (think bkaiser recruiting page) mention a lot about SuperPrep AA and Parade AA but now it is generally all Rivals and “Denny’s.”

Actually, NRA had a consensus list that does what 247 does in terms of building a composite ranking. We had several players on the top 100 each of those years that Turk was talking about.

The recruiting was definitely at a different level in those days. We had Parade AAs commit to NU (Souza, Albrecht). The rankings Turk is mentioning is 94 class (Autry et. al.) @ #24 and the 96 class @#16 (97 for that matter was #26). The last class Barnett recruited the season he left, we were in on some top 3 players at multiple positions and it was poised to be a good one (top 15-20 again), but we lost a bunch of players when he bolted. Superprep AAs were equivalent of 4 stars on Rivals, and we had a handful in each class. Parade AA still exists, and they could be considered equivalent to Rivals 5 stars (top 30 or so recruits).

Stanford's recruiting is better than even where Barnett got us (as they have landed top 10 classes). There is no reason we cannot replicate what Barnett did as a base standard (since he proved it possible with no facilities or as much of a track record) and Stanford should be our stretch as what you can do with equally (and arguably higher) admission standards.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Another point to consider. In the mid 90s the acceptance rate at NU was like 40% I think. It is now like 8%. Has this affected the acceptance of football recruits through admissions, or are the standards the same (which is still higher than every FBS program except Stanford)?

You're deluded. I matriculated in 89 and the acceptance rate was never close to that high. It was in the teens. It is harder to get in today for sure, but 40% is ridiculous.

 

[EvanstonCat]

You are confusing him with Javier Collins.Same last name, different guy, several years later

It seems to me that Joe Collins never played very much, and I also seem to remember that Adam Fay had a lot of problems with knee injuries.

Adam Fay had Dunlap disease according to the OL coach. That's when the fat on your belly done lapped over.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Recruiting is already better now. The talent top to bottom is better now than what emerged from even those heady post rose bowl classes. Thorson, Paddy, Hartage, JJ, Slater, the amazing DL guys in recent years are as good as the top guys from those days. And the depth of talent is no comparison.

Unless you are looking for "recruiting rankings" and not the actual on-field talent and performance of the players.

You were not around back then obviously, and have no idea what you're talking about. No one on our roster has the physical gifts of Napolean Harris or is going to be drafted in the 1st round like he was. JJTBC was not as good as Chris Brown (who followed Barnett to CU) and certainly with Brown, Autry and Anderson as a top 3 destroys the top 3 RBs during the Fitz era, especially in 2000 yard seasons and Heisman finalist appearances. Hartage might be drafted, might not be. Harold Blackmon and Hudhaifa Ismaeli were and Blackmon played for the Seahawks. Was Thorson better on the field than John Navarre? Not according to the Writers and Coaches who vote for All Conference. And when it comes to recruiting, I think we are talking about who we could beat out for offers, and yes, rankings, which are indicative. It's not even close. You can argue until you're blue about us having some magical ability to find diamond's in the rough, but our diamond's in the rough have exacted zero B1G titles, while Barnett's recruits won 3 in 6 years, and that's even with a bunch of them decommitting or transferring in the wake of his departure.

 

[torque-cat]

You're deluded. I matriculated in 89 and the acceptance rate was never close to that high. It was in the teens. It is harder to get in today for sure, but 40% is ridiculous.

Incorrect Ecat, I matriculated in the 90s and the acceptance rate was in the 40s. At the time, only Harvard, Yale, Stanford really had acceptance rates in the teens. What is happening now is due to increased competition but also an aberration because of common applications that allow people to apply to more schools quite easily. There is more talent applying and matriculating but the bulk of rejections are due to underqualified applicants having minimal downside to trying. The other problem is that schools are encouraging underqualified applicants to apply because it helps their "acceptance rates" which feed into rankings.

 

[SchizoCat1]

You're deluded. I matriculated in 89 and the acceptance rate was never close to that high. It was in the teens. It is harder to get in today for sure, but 40% is ridiculous.

If I recall correctly it was running around 30% when I was there in the 70s. The environment is very different now and much more competitive for reasons I won't go into.

 

[torque-cat]

You were not around back then obviously, and have no idea what you're talking about. No one on our roster has the physical gifts of Napolean Harris or is going to be drafted in the 1st round like he was. JJTBC was not as good as Chris Brown (who followed Barnett to CU) and certainly with Brown, Autry and Anderson as a top 3 destroys the top 3 RBs during the Fitz era, especially in 2000 yard seasons and Heisman finalist appearances. Hartage might be drafted, might not be. Harold Blackmon and Hudhaifa Ismaeli were and Blackmon played for the Seahawks. Was Thorson better on the field than John Navarre? Not according to the Writers and Coaches who vote for All Conference. And when it comes to recruiting, I think we are talking about who we could beat out for offers, and yes, rankings, which are indicative. It's not even close. You can argue until you're blue about us having some magical ability to find diamond's in the rough, but our diamond's in the rough have exacted zero B1G titles, while Barnett's recruits won 3 in 6 years, and that's even with a bunch of them decommitting or transferring in the wake of his departure.

I was around back then. The 2000 team was exciting, but Fitz has had better teams on the field including 8-2 in the big. The team was 8-4, 6-2 in the big ten, didn't need to play Ohio State and ended the season as a flat out bad--once DCs had time to adjust. I have no doubt you were complaining back then about the loss to a bad Iowa team and annihilation by Nebraska. It was fun to watch them and they deserve credit, but top to bottom several Fitz teams would beat them. Do you really think Hankwitz wouldn't have figured them out?

The mid-90s teams were great but Turk was talking about the great recruiting after the Rose Bowl.

Personally, I think Fitz's best teams would beat the 2000 team and the '96 team. The '95 defense against a Hank defense would be a sight to behold. Other than the '95 team, the difference in secondaries alone would be a huge problem for those early teams.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Incorrect Ecat, I matriculated in the 90s and the acceptance rate was in the 40s. At the time, only Harvard, Yale, Stanford really had acceptance rates in the teens. What is happening now is due to increased competition but also an aberration because of common applications that allow people to apply to more schools quite easily. There is more talent applying and matriculating but the bulk of rejections are due to underqualified applicants having minimal downside to trying. The other problem is that schools are encouraging underqualified applicants to apply because it helps their "acceptance rates" which feed into rankings.

Nope. It was 18% when I matriculated. I remember the number distinctly.

Then again, I do remember a lot of things differently as Glades likes to point out. I did a lot of brain damage when I was at NU.