Clayton is chosen. Eagles
- Thread starter T_Levine
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5th round. Not bad. A good spot for him to learn and develop.
That's a great place for him with Foles gone and the oft-injured Carson Wentz ahead of him along with Nate Sudfield, formerly of Indiana, who I don't think is as good as Clayton. Good luck Clayton!
^ CT is the projected 3rd string behind Sudfeld.
Sudfeld not only had the better college stats, but he also is up on CT on NFL experience.
Sudfeld
Completion % - 60.3
Yards per attempt - 8.0
Rating - 144.1
TD/Int - 61 to 20
Thorson
Completion % - 58.4
Yards per attempt - 6.3
Rating - 118.1
TD/Int - 61 to 45
Thorson's college stats is more comparable to Daniel Jones
Completion % - 59.9
Yards per attempt - 6.4
Rating - 122.9
TD/Int - 52 to 29
All QBs weren't exactly surrounded by talent on O, but IU did send a couple of O-linemen to the NFL.
The Cutcliffe and Manning connections really helped out Jones when I don't see him being any better than CT.
Due to the (Peyton) Manning connection, there are now 2 QBs in NYC (well, Jersey) as back-ups.
While Jones is seen as the heir apparent to Eli, don't see him being much better (if at all) than Siemian either.
Bunch of Eagles fans weren't to happy w/ the pick as they like Sudfeld as the back-up, but others pointed out that Sudfeld may not stick around.
Sudfeld not only had the better college stats, but he also is up on CT on NFL experience.
Sudfeld
Completion % - 60.3
Yards per attempt - 8.0
Rating - 144.1
TD/Int - 61 to 20
Thorson
Completion % - 58.4
Yards per attempt - 6.3
Rating - 118.1
TD/Int - 61 to 45
Thorson's college stats is more comparable to Daniel Jones
Completion % - 59.9
Yards per attempt - 6.4
Rating - 122.9
TD/Int - 52 to 29
All QBs weren't exactly surrounded by talent on O, but IU did send a couple of O-linemen to the NFL.
The Cutcliffe and Manning connections really helped out Jones when I don't see him being any better than CT.
Due to the (Peyton) Manning connection, there are now 2 QBs in NYC (well, Jersey) as back-ups.
While Jones is seen as the heir apparent to Eli, don't see him being much better (if at all) than Siemian either.
Bunch of Eagles fans weren't to happy w/ the pick as they like Sudfeld as the back-up, but others pointed out that Sudfeld may not stick around.
^ How so?
Shows that Sudfeld had the better stats during college and is no doubt the more polished and NFL ready passer, but that CT's comparable is more DJ.
Even if the Giants had played it smarter and taken DJ w/ their 2nd 1st rnd pick, either DJ would still have been taken too high or CT was taken way too low.
Shows that Sudfeld had the better stats during college and is no doubt the more polished and NFL ready passer, but that CT's comparable is more DJ.
Even if the Giants had played it smarter and taken DJ w/ their 2nd 1st rnd pick, either DJ would still have been taken too high or CT was taken way too low.
Think it is because 1) college stats mean nothing in the pros and 2) Sudfield has done nothing in the pros and is only getting more expensive plus 3) this is a post celebrating Thorson and has no relevance to DJ.
Some people struggle with seeing the obvious. I have a soon-to-be ex business partner like that.
GOUNUII
Well, while I think CT can overtake Sudfeld over the longer haul (which may be in doubt as Sudfeld may not resign), it's asking a lot to overtake a QB who knows the playbook and has faced NFL defenses.
It's one thing to be a homer, but c'mon now, saying that it won't be close isn't giving Sudfeld any respect (which is like what many Philly fans are doing w/ Thorson).
1. College stats (and game film) do play a pretty big role in terms of a team's evaluation of player of being worthy of a draft pick, etc.; and scouts/analysts take, in particular, note of completion %/accuracy (while allowing for variables like talent level, drops, etc.).
2. While Sudfeld hasn't done much, he's done more in the NFL at this juncture than Thorson, which carries a lot of weight in the league.
And the fact that Sudfeld is getting more expensive is exactly the reason why they drafted Thorson (Pederson likes Sudfeld, but Nate will be too expensive for them when they still have to pay Wentz).
Philly fans, in general, are pretty happy w/ Sudfeld as their back-up QB (having watched him in limited action, pre-season games and camp), which is why many thought that Thorson was a wasted pick (overlooking the fact that this may very well be the last season w/ Philly for Sudfeld).
But it's not just the fans, but the coaching staff, including Pederson.
On top of that, the Eagles placed a 2nd rnd tender on Sudfeld to ensure that other teams stayed away.
And while Sudfeld is only 20 of 25 for 156 yds and 1 TD (106 rating) - having seen limited action, last pre-season, Nate (in two preseason appearances, against the Pats and Steelers) threw for 452 yards with 5 touchdowns and 3 interceptions, 2 of which weren’t his fault.
Granted, this may have been against the 2nd-stringers, but that's still better players Thorson has faced thus far in his career.
I dunno just a bit confused, it sort of seemed like you were trying to subtly sideswipe / ding Clayton, while dinging DJ harder, and then also sort of dinging Sudfeld a tiny bit but maybe not? While selectively quoting stats that aren't really apples to apples in terms of team circumstances (ie offensive scheme) or competition. It just seemed confusing and contradictory with glancing blows while not really making a point.
To be clear, I'm mixed toward CT as an NFL prospect, he was great for us but I think mid-round pick was about the right place for him to go. I wouldn't have used a top 100 pick on him, but I'm thinking / hoping the Eagles got good value as a backup with potential upside and a smart mind to add to their QB room by taking him in the 5th round.
So did I and don't think CT is better right now.
Very few things are exactly apples to apples comparisons, but all 3 QBs were lacking in talent around them compared to most other Power 5 schools.
It's not like I'm comparing CT's stats w/ those of Haskins; and if I did, would place a major caveat in that Haskins had tons more talent around him to make him look better (not that he isn't good).
At the very least, what one can take out of it is Sudfeld having been a decent-enough college QB.
Call it dinging if you want, but none of the 3 QBs had, shall we say, stellar collegiate careers (even taking into account the talent level around them); in contrast to, say, JJtBC who ended up the 3rd all time leading rusher in B1G (more on that later).
CT very well could end up being the better NFL QB than Sudfeld - once he gains some experience.
But it's a tough road for a rookie to be better prepared than a 4th year player (unless he sucks) to take command of a team and run the O.
Siemian is a better QB than Osweiler now, but was he ready to take over for the Broncos when Manning missed time due to injury during their SB season?
No.
The Eagles are in win-now mode and unless Sudfeld completely stinks it up (which he didn't last year during the pre-season or the little action he did see during the regular season), going to be tough for CT to pass Sudfeld (could happen, but think the chances of that happening are pretty slim).
The Eagles coaching staff have a certain level of trust and comfort w/ Sudfeld and the team has the talent to make it back to the SB.
If Wentz ends up missing some time (esp. early on) have a difficult time seeing them resort to a rookie QB, for whom they will have to simplify the playbook.
JJtBC was one of the most prolific runners to come out of the B1G, but didn't expect him to challenge Melvin Gordon for the starting gig, and knew that it was going to be a battle for the back-up spot w/ Austin Ekeler (based on what Chargers fans have said about Ekeler).
As it turned out, JJtBC was the 3rd string RB for much of the 2018 season, and he's likely to be that this season.
W/ a year of experience under his belt, JJtBC could end up beating out Ekeler, but at the same time, Detrez Newsome is gunning for JJtBC's spot.
Game film does, though that is not what you referenced prior. College stats did 30 years ago, but now teams are much more sophisticated about that - one incompletion is not the same across the board.
If Sudfield was the answer, Thorson would not have been drafted, regardless of what fans think.
^ And you've seen Sudfeld's game film (both college and NFL) and deemed it to be worse?
Highlights w/ the Eagles (pre-season).
Mike Mayock film breakdown.
Like I had stated, the Eagles coaching staff is high on Sudfeld, but won't be able to afford to keep him when his contract is up after this season.
If the Eagles were that concerned about their back-up QB position that they were looking to the draft, they wouldn't have waited 'til the 5th rnd (which denotes a development prospect).
As for NFL evaluators, their opinions on Thorson vary widely (McGinn).
Highlights w/ the Eagles (pre-season).
Mike Mayock film breakdown.
Like I had stated, the Eagles coaching staff is high on Sudfeld, but won't be able to afford to keep him when his contract is up after this season.
If the Eagles were that concerned about their back-up QB position that they were looking to the draft, they wouldn't have waited 'til the 5th rnd (which denotes a development prospect).
As for NFL evaluators, their opinions on Thorson vary widely (McGinn).
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I bet they’d love this on the Peegs IU forum. I’ll see if I can find a link for you.
^ Got nothing better than that?
Sorry, if I'm being a realist in not expecting a rookie (who has never faced an NFL D and has to learn a playbook) to pass someone who, at the very least, seems to be a somewhat competent NFL back-up.
Like I had stated, w/ some experience, Thorson may very well pass Sudfeld, but right now, don't exactly see Pederson handing the reigns (of a team expected to compete for a championship) over to a rookie, esp. of Wentz ends up missing time early.
This total dismissal of Sudfeld is no different from what a lot of Philly fans are doing w/ Thorson.
Sorry, if I'm being a realist in not expecting a rookie (who has never faced an NFL D and has to learn a playbook) to pass someone who, at the very least, seems to be a somewhat competent NFL back-up.
Like I had stated, w/ some experience, Thorson may very well pass Sudfeld, but right now, don't exactly see Pederson handing the reigns (of a team expected to compete for a championship) over to a rookie, esp. of Wentz ends up missing time early.
This total dismissal of Sudfeld is no different from what a lot of Philly fans are doing w/ Thorson.
Well, they are definitely keeping 3 due to Wentz's injury history. And I'm not tremendously scared of a guy who has a career record of 2-10...
Then why do they feel a need to sign him? Maybe trying to hide CT on the practice squad, but I think someone would pick him up.
They feel a need to sign him due to a lack of confidence in Sudfeld. CT, in his first year, would likely be third string no matter how you slice it. The winner of the Sudfeld/Kessler battle will be second string, loser will get cut.
I don't think this is solely a reflection on Sudfeld and I doubt he is going to get cut. Obviously they don't believe either Clayton or Sudfeld have shown enough to warrant not bringing some veteran experience in to compete. Their assessment may be different by the end of training camp but as things stand now I think they likely would try to sneak Clayton onto the practice squad. It would be a risk but if you do it at the right time it's possible they could do it.
Sounds like 3 guys for 2 spots to me. I would think Clayton has a good shot to be the #3 but I imagine all options are on the table. If Clayton doesn’t play well then he could be dumped. I think there’s a decent chance Philly keeps 3 QBs on the full roster too (or Clayton doesn’t have to go through to PS).
Bringing CK in may also have to do something w/ a worst case scenario for Wentz's health.
If Sudfeld ends up playing early and then gets hurt, the Eagles are not going to want to turn to a rookie QB when their goal is to make it back to the SB.
Even if CK ends up getting cut after camp, the benefit is that he has some familiarity w/ their playbook if they ever need to bring him back.
If Sudfeld ends up playing early and then gets hurt, the Eagles are not going to want to turn to a rookie QB when their goal is to make it back to the SB.
Even if CK ends up getting cut after camp, the benefit is that he has some familiarity w/ their playbook if they ever need to bring him back.
BGN's outlook on Clayton's 1st day of OTA's.
• Clayton Thorson was solid. Better than I expected him to be, which isn’t saying a ton. He didn’t do anything overly impressive. He also didn’t look totally lost, like how Matt Barkley looked as a rookie in 2013. Decent first impression.
• Clayton Thorson was solid. Better than I expected him to be, which isn’t saying a ton. He didn’t do anything overly impressive. He also didn’t look totally lost, like how Matt Barkley looked as a rookie in 2013. Decent first impression.
Additional observations from Tuesday's practices:
Grugier-Hill had an active practice as well. He picked off a bad throw from rookie quarterback Clayton Thorson during 3-on-3 drills.
One of the biggest plays in practice was a reception by ... Carlton Agudosi?! The Rutgers alumnus caught a wobbly pass from Clayton Thorson deep down the field. Avonte Maddox and Rasul Douglas both had Agudosi covered well; the ball should’ve been picked off ...
Nate Sudfeld was up and down once again. He held on the ball for too long before throwing to a receiver on a crossing route. As a result, Josh Hawkins was able to undercut the route for a pick six. Sudfeld also overthrew a quick slant to Charles Johnson. Sudfeld did earn praise from coaches and teammates after hitting Richard Rodgers on a fade route in the back corner of the end zone for a touchdown.
Grugier-Hill had an active practice as well. He picked off a bad throw from rookie quarterback Clayton Thorson during 3-on-3 drills.
One of the biggest plays in practice was a reception by ... Carlton Agudosi?! The Rutgers alumnus caught a wobbly pass from Clayton Thorson deep down the field. Avonte Maddox and Rasul Douglas both had Agudosi covered well; the ball should’ve been picked off ...
Nate Sudfeld was up and down once again. He held on the ball for too long before throwing to a receiver on a crossing route. As a result, Josh Hawkins was able to undercut the route for a pick six. Sudfeld also overthrew a quick slant to Charles Johnson. Sudfeld did earn praise from coaches and teammates after hitting Richard Rodgers on a fade route in the back corner of the end zone for a touchdown.
And that's the knock on Clayton. Some bad throws and too many picks on questionable decisions. Hope he can clean that up.
Yeah I'm rooting for Clayton as vigorously as anyone out there, but realistically he does have flaws he need to overcome. He shines as a game manager so hope he gets the opportunity to show it in the preseason games.
Not a great report on Thorson today:
1:05 p.m. – Jones breaks well on a deep pass intended for Will Tye from Clayton Thorson, but drops a should-be interception. Thorson has struggled today, in what has been his most extensive work to my eyes.
1:08 p.m. – The first-team defense has swapped its linebackers, with Brown and Fort now patrolling the middle of the field. The boisterous sideline of defensive players nearly explodes when Brown drops what should have been an interception, once again on a Thorson throw intended for Tye.
1:09 p.m. – Thorson attempts a back-shoulder pass to Braxton Miller, but this time Jones comes down with the interception. The rest of the defense pours onto the field and Doug Pederson takes the opportunity to end practice, perhaps boosting Jones’ confidence a bit.
1:05 p.m. – Jones breaks well on a deep pass intended for Will Tye from Clayton Thorson, but drops a should-be interception. Thorson has struggled today, in what has been his most extensive work to my eyes.
1:08 p.m. – The first-team defense has swapped its linebackers, with Brown and Fort now patrolling the middle of the field. The boisterous sideline of defensive players nearly explodes when Brown drops what should have been an interception, once again on a Thorson throw intended for Tye.
1:09 p.m. – Thorson attempts a back-shoulder pass to Braxton Miller, but this time Jones comes down with the interception. The rest of the defense pours onto the field and Doug Pederson takes the opportunity to end practice, perhaps boosting Jones’ confidence a bit.
Saw this today, too, though:
Looking past his rookie mistakes, however, it is starting to become very clear why the Eagles liked Thorson. He throws a great ball, and has plenty of power behind it, easily launching it 40-plus yards down the field.
Thorson made the Stock Down list.
Clayton Thorson - Thorson showed some positive flashes during the Eagles’ first OTA practice. Unfortunately for him, that was his peak. Thorson made questionable decisions and some of his throws resulted in super wobbly balls. In fairness to Thorson, he’s a rookie learning a complex playbook. He needs to show more progress in the summer, though.
Still early and the real measure will be how CT fares against the 3rd/4th string in the 4th Q of the preseason games (and maybe more in the last pre-season game).
How CT does there will seal his fate w/ regard to making the roster or being relegated to the PS.
Apparently, TS didn't have a particularly good showing in the Jets' OTA's, but there doesn't seem to be a real competitor for the Jets back-up QB spot.
Trevor is going to have to play well and show something during the pre-season games if he's counting on getting a multi-year contract as a back-up somewhere.
Clayton Thorson - Thorson showed some positive flashes during the Eagles’ first OTA practice. Unfortunately for him, that was his peak. Thorson made questionable decisions and some of his throws resulted in super wobbly balls. In fairness to Thorson, he’s a rookie learning a complex playbook. He needs to show more progress in the summer, though.
Still early and the real measure will be how CT fares against the 3rd/4th string in the 4th Q of the preseason games (and maybe more in the last pre-season game).
How CT does there will seal his fate w/ regard to making the roster or being relegated to the PS.
Apparently, TS didn't have a particularly good showing in the Jets' OTA's, but there doesn't seem to be a real competitor for the Jets back-up QB spot.
Trevor is going to have to play well and show something during the pre-season games if he's counting on getting a multi-year contract as a back-up somewhere.
