Collins

[JournCat]

Since CC offered his rant on this season being a "disaster" following the Michigan win, we have gotten blown out at Maryland and ... I can't type the words about what happened last night, but last night happened.

This is the worst job he's done in five years here. Guys we expected to emerge haven't. Entire recruiting classes are mostly invisible. And the seniors make freshmen mistakes like fouling a three-point shooter in the final minute. Whether or not Mac is in the game, the second half felt like one extended prayer that we could hold on. Against Rutgers.

I've also been troubled by his public statements ever since the Purdue game, when he made up from whole cloth that Pardon needing stitches. That was so easily disprovable that it was hard to call a lie. But he's been all over the map this year. I was actually more troubled when he was so positive after the Ohio State loss. Moral victories aren't what our program should be about anymore.

There's no Carmody truthing here. Collins was amazing last year and the incoming recruiting class is really exciting. He's still the right guy to lead the program. But he deserves more blame than anyone for this year's fiasco.

 

[willycat]

Since CC offered his rant on this season being a "disaster" following the Michigan win, we have gotten blown out at Maryland and ... I can't type the words about what happened last night, but last night happened.

This is the worst job he's done in five years here. Guys we expected to emerge haven't. Entire recruiting classes are mostly invisible. And the seniors make freshmen mistakes like fouling a three-point shooter in the final minute. Whether or not Mac is in the game, the second half felt like one extended prayer that we could hold on. Against Rutgers.

I've also been troubled by his public statements ever since the Purdue game, when he made up from whole cloth that Pardon needing stitches. That was so easily disprovable that it was hard to call a lie. But he's been all over the map this year. I was actually more troubled when he was so positive after the Ohio State loss. Moral victories aren't what our program should be about anymore.

There's no Carmody truthing here. He was amazing last year and the incoming recruiting class is really exciting. He's still the right guy to lead the program. But he deserves more blame than anyone for this year's fiasco.

Just maybe injuries and a couple of seniors need to take the blame as well. There are a couple of guys who don't look like they want to or should getting minutes. But because of injuries who could take there place? Still think that there is some inside turmoil on the team, that might be fixed with graduation and other exits.

 

[Fitz51]

I blame Kevin Coble.

 

[stpaulcat]

Not sure I see the point in placing blame at this point, but if anyone is to blame it has to be Louis Gillesby, who got us off to such a bad start.

 

[charcat]

I trace the problems back to Bob Strotz and the lack of institutional support in the 80’s...

 

[Hungry Jack]

My favorite prof from business school—a guy who was much more real world school of hard knocks than ivory tower—said that the hardest challenge you can face is delivering an encore. Following up success with greater success.

I am not going to entertain critiquing Coach Collins’ sideline demeanor, his pressers, his attire, the players’ smiling, etc. That is pop psychology.

The biggest fault are recruiting misfires that have hamstrung us at G. First it was Vassar. Now Brown is a wreck. Ash is a backup.

Collins almost certainly needs to find a grad transfer to lead the point while Lathon gets baptized next year. If he does not address that, then I will worry.

 

[NJCat]

Collins almost certainly needs to find a grad transfer to lead the point while Lathon gets baptized next year. If he does not address that, then I will worry.

And how will he create a scholarship to do that? What if IB doesn't want to transfer, and Rap tries to rehab his shoulder for one more try at college hoops? I suspect CCC is on a very short leash with respect to running another player off the team........

 

[Medill90]

And how will he create a scholarship to do that? What if IB doesn't want to transfer, and Rap tries to rehab his shoulder for one more try at college hoops? I suspect CCC is on a very short leash with respect to running another player off the team........

I think Haywood floated a balloon yesterday that indicates one or more may be moving on. From time to time, Haywood is prescient.

 

[Medill90]

This is the worst job he's done in five years here.

This can be his worst job here and also a damn fine coaching performance.

Regarding his hyperbole....if his seniors would consistently show the same level of desire to compete and win as their coach, he could stay mum.

 

[Hungry Jack]

And how will he create a scholarship to do that? What if IB doesn't want to transfer, and Rap tries to rehab his shoulder for one more try at college hoops? I suspect CCC is on a very short leash with respect to running another player off the team........

I assume IB will transfer. If he doesn’t, then it’s prolly a wasted season for Law and Pardon. At that point, you’d want Kopp and Nance to get baptized too.

 

[Dugan15]

I am not a fan of criticizing unpaid students.

 

[TheC]

I am not a fan of criticizing unpaid students.

I am a fan of criticizing unpaid posters though.

 

[2388bb]

Just maybe injuries and a couple of seniors need to take the blame as well. There are a couple of guys who don't look like they want to or should getting minutes. But because of injuries who could take there place? Still think that there is some inside turmoil on the team, that might be fixed with graduation and other exits.

That's just it. If there is inside turmoil then CC is at fault.

 

[willycat]

That's just it. If there is inside turmoil then CC is at fault.

Or it's the players fault, or maybe it's his parents fault, or, or, or...

 

[IGNORE2]

I am not a fan of criticizing unpaid students.

But students earning about a quarter of a million dollars to play a game and probably getting a parchment that they would not have otherwise been able to pursue (at NU at least), well, I can stomach critiquing them and the coaches around them. Nobody forced them to become scholarship bball players. But this is a big stage with lots of revenue. They get TV time, private charter flights, rub elbows with elite individuals, etc. While I think they (particularly the FB players) are undercompensated, they are still compensated handsomely. And they choose this path.

 

[JournCat]

But students earning about a quarter of a million dollars to play a game and probably getting a parchment that they would not have otherwise been able to pursue (at NU at least), well, I can stomach critiquing them and the coaches around them. Nobody forced them to become scholarship bball players. But this is a big stage with lots of revenue. They get TV time, private charter flights, rub elbows with elite individuals, etc. While I think they (particularly the FB players) are uncompensated, they are still compensated handsomely. And they choose this path.

It's still a tough life. How many classes is the average player attending in season, especially with having to stay near Allstate the night before home games? Benson took a final in Salt Lake City before the Vanderbilt game, and Mac and Law were finishing papers. They work hard and for less than market value.

 

[IGNORE2]

It's still a tough life. How many classes is the average player attending in season, especially with having to stay near Allstate the night before home games? Benson took a final in Salt Lake City before the Vanderbilt game, and Mac and Law were finishing papers. They work hard and for less than market value.

I agree. And I was a non revenue athlete so I was even less 'compensated.' I took exams on the road, had study hall and could not enjoy many aspects of normal student life.

Still, it is a choice. Nobody said they had to play ball. Many more non-athletes than athletes. Student loans available for almost everybody. Or they could play in a less glamorous conference. The choice to go D1, P5, B1G is a conscious one, underpaid and all.

 

[mikewebb68]

That's just it. If there is inside turmoil then CC is at fault.

Nah, it's your fault.

 

[hdhntr1]

But students earning about a quarter of a million dollars to play a game and probably getting a parchment that they would not have otherwise been able to pursue (at NU at least), well, I can stomach critiquing them and the coaches around them. Nobody forced them to become scholarship bball players. But this is a big stage with lots of revenue. They get TV time, private charter flights, rub elbows with elite individuals, etc. While I think they (particularly the FB players) are undercompensated, they are still compensated handsomely. And they choose this path.

They don't "earn" a quarter million dollars. Hopefully it will be valuable to have the parchment (or the knowledge gained will hopefully have that value) but it is not theirs to spend. The kids that come here have some smarts and alternatives to get education elsewhere. And they work their butts off to get that education. Full time job on top of another. Not saying that education is not some compensation, but not what you suggest, And is it really compensation for them or for their parents?

 

[IGNORE2]

They don't "earn" a quarter million dollars. Hopefully it will be valuable to have the parchment (or the knowledge gained will hopefully have that value) but it is not theirs to spend. The kids that come here have some smarts and alternatives to get education elsewhere. And they work their butts off to get that education. Full time job on top of another. Not saying that education is not some compensation, but not what you suggest, And is it really compensation for them or for their parents?

Based on the number of people I know still paying student loans, it is for them.

And it is a form of compensation, like stock options, PTO, company car. Sure, not transferable but the kid next door pays a lot of money to walk the same campus.

I agree they all have alternatives and they choose to play ball on this stage. They could easily go Ivy League and then maybe I can see OPs point. Or drop down to UoC (D2?) and then they probably don't even have message boards or demanding fans to worry about.

But those that choose this stage, while underpaid, are compensated and subject to all the same accolades and scrutiny of any other paid athlete, imho.

 

[lou v]

Since CC offered his rant on this season being a "disaster" following the Michigan win, we have gotten blown out at Maryland and ... I can't type the words about what happened last night, but last night happened.

This is the worst job he's done in five years here. Guys we expected to emerge haven't. Entire recruiting classes are mostly invisible. And the seniors make freshmen mistakes like fouling a three-point shooter in the final minute. Whether or not Mac is in the game, the second half felt like one extended prayer that we could hold on. Against Rutgers.

I've also been troubled by his public statements ever since the Purdue game, when he made up from whole cloth that Pardon needing stitches. That was so easily disprovable that it was hard to call a lie. But he's been all over the map this year. I was actually more troubled when he was so positive after the Ohio State loss. Moral victories aren't what our program should be about anymore.

There's no Carmody truthing here. Collins was amazing last year and the incoming recruiting class is really exciting. He's still the right guy to lead the program. But he deserves more blame than anyone for this year's fiasco.

Collins is definitely on the hook for this year. One of the biggest things to me is the lack of player development from last year to this year. I didn’t see improvement in BMac, Lindsey, Law — anyone other than Pardon, the only guy, to me, who brings it every night. And they’ve been maddeningly inconsistent, which is inexcusable for such a veteran team. Defense, turnovers, shooting, lack of assists, fouls - it’s like a different culprit was at the root of every loss.

But is this his worst coaching job? I was impressed with his switching to that morphing
2-3 zone, how quickly the team picked it up and the impact it had on the season. They instantly went from a team that was struggling terribly defensively to one that relied on defense to win games. That was a good coaching decision and an excellent teaching job, in my opinion.

He also adapted his style and tried just about everything to spark the team. He screamed at them at times, took a calmer/teaching approach at times and tried motivational tactics like taking away their jerseys for practice. Nothing seemed to have a lasting impact. I don’t think you can blame him for a lot of the atrocious shooting that cost them plenty of games.

The one thing that should be laid at his feet, though, is not getting them in shape to start the season. BMac’s comments a couple weeks ago were alarming to me. And Collins readily admits that he should’ve been harder on the team early. So that argument holds water.

Collins gets a lot of heat from this board on his substitutions, or lack thereof. But he’s always done that. BMac, Law and Pardon are averaging fewer minutes per game than last year. The guy uses a short bench. It worked last year, not this one. As for Brown’s playing time, specifically, I think we all saw against Rutgers why Collins doesn’t play him. I would say putting Ash ahead of Brown in the rotation was another good coaching move, even if I didn’t agree with it initially. Ash has been one of the few bright spots this year.

Oh, and as for the stitches comment — I believe that was a case of, before he went into the press conference, a trainer told him that Pardon would probably need stitches. Turned out that he didn’t. It wasn’t a blatant lie.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Collins is definitely on the hook for this year. One of the biggest things to me is the lack of player development from last year to this year. I didn’t see improvement in BMac, Lindsey, Law — anyone other than Pardon, the only guy, to me, who brings it every night. And they’ve been maddeningly inconsistent, which is inexcusable for such a veteran team. Defense, turnovers, shooting, lack of assists, fouls - it’s like a different culprit was at the root of every loss.

But is this his worst coaching job? I was impressed with his switching to that morphing
2-3 zone, how quickly the team picked it up and the impact it had on the season. They instantly went from a team that was struggling terribly defensively to one that relied on defense to win games. That was a good coaching decision and an excellent teaching job, in my opinion.

He also adapted his style and tried just about everything to spark the team. He screamed at them at times, took a calmer/teaching approach at times and tried motivational tactics like taking away their jerseys for practice. Nothing seemed to have a lasting impact. I don’t think you can blame him for a lot of the atrocious shooting that cost them plenty of games.

The one thing that should be laid at his feet, though, is not getting them in shape to start the season. BMac’s comments a couple weeks ago were alarming to me. And Collins readily admits that he should’ve been harder on the team early. So that argument holds water.

Collins gets a lot of heat from this board on his substitutions, or lack thereof. But he’s always done that. BMac, Law and Pardon are averaging fewer minutes per game than last year. The guy uses a short bench. It worked last year, not this one. As for Brown’s playing time, specifically, I think we all saw against Rutgers why Collins doesn’t play him. I would say putting Ash ahead of Brown in the rotation was another good coaching move, even if I didn’t agree with it initially. Ash has been one of the few bright spots this year.

Oh, and as for the stitches comment — I believe that was a case of, before he went into the press conference, a trainer told him that Pardon would probably need stitches. Turned out that he didn’t. It wasn’t a blatant lie.

i disagree with you here. i think collins would be on the hook if he didn't try everything in the coaching book of tricks to get this team to respond. if he adapted his style of play AND tried about everything to spark them - then how is he on the hook? you basically said he did everything in his power to get a response, and their wasn't one. if this was a pro team they would be trying to make a mid-season trade, but colleges don't get that luxury.

to me this is similar to a good parent who has a rebellious kid. you bring them up right. provide for them. teach them right from wrong. teach them respect. but they still go out and do dumb things. it doesn't make you a bad parent. it makes you a parent who tried and had a dumb kid.

the fact is this team had success last year and got fat and happy. they lost their edge. they thought they arrived. 2 senior all-conference players look uninterested in basketball, and and they certainly don't look like they care about playing for the team or even fighting to get looks from professional scouts. the third senior shows up to half the games and is a no-show for the other. so with those results - and a coach changing schemes and trying all motivational tactics in the book i put it on the players. you can't coach heart and desire - those things come from within. and like glaringly obvious against rutgers - this team does not play with heart and desire.

i understand unltimately a coach is responsible for the team, but its a too way street. if collins and stuff didn't adjust and just stayed the same for every game - then i would blame the coaching staff. just my opinion.

 

[lou v]

Collins is definitely on the hook for this year. One of the biggest things to me is the lack of player development from last year to this year. I didn’t see improvement in BMac, Lindsey, Law — anyone other than Pardon, the only guy, to me, who brings it every night. And they’ve been maddeningly inconsistent, which is inexcusable for such a veteran team. Defense, turnovers, shooting, lack of assists, fouls - it’s like a different culprit was at the root of every loss.

But is this his worst coaching job? I was impressed with his switching to that morphing
2-3 zone, how quickly the team picked it up and the impact it had on the season. They instantly went from a team that was struggling terribly defensively to one that relied on defense to win games. That was a good coaching decision and an excellent teaching job, in my opinion.

He also adapted his style and tried just about everything to spark the team. He screamed at them at times, took a calmer/teaching approach at times and tried motivational tactics like taking away their jerseys for practice. Nothing seemed to have a lasting impact. I don’t think you can blame him for a lot of the atrocious shooting that cost them plenty of games.

The one thing that should be laid at his feet, though, is not getting them in shape to start the season. BMac’s comments a couple weeks ago were alarming to me. And Collins readily admits that he should’ve been harder on the team early. So that argument holds water.

Collins gets a lot of heat from this board on his substitutions, or lack thereof. But he’s always done that. BMac, Law and Pardon are averaging fewer minutes per game than last year. The guy uses a short bench. It worked last year, not this one. As for Brown’s playing time, specifically, I think we all saw against Rutgers why Collins doesn’t play him. I would say putting Ash ahead of Brown in the rotation was another good coaching move, even if I didn’t agree with it initially. Ash has been one of the few bright spots this year.

Oh, and as for the stitches comment — I believe that was a case of, before he went into the press conference, a trainer told him that Pardon would probably need stitches. Turned out that he didn’t. It wasn’t a blatant lie.

i disagree with you here. i think collins would be on the hook if he didn't try everything in the coaching book of tricks to get this team to respond. if he adapted his style of play AND tried about everything to spark them - then how is he on the hook? you basically said he did everything in his power to get a response, and their wasn't one. if this was a pro team they would be trying to make a mid-season trade, but colleges don't get that luxury.

to me this is similar to a good parent who has a rebellious kid. you bring them up right. provide for them. teach them right from wrong. teach them respect. but they still go out and do dumb things. it doesn't make you a bad parent. it makes you a parent who tried and had a dumb kid.

the fact is this team had success last year and got fat and happy. they lost their edge. they thought they arrived. 2 senior all-conference players look uninterested in basketball, and and they certainly don't look like they care about playing for the team or even fighting to get looks from professional scouts. the third senior shows up to half the games and is a no-show for the other. so with those results - and a coach changing schemes and trying all motivational tactics in the book i put it on the players. you can't coach heart and desire - those things come from within. and like glaringly obvious against rutgers - this team does not play with heart and desire.

i understand unltimately a coach is responsible for the team, but its a too way street. if collins and stuff didn't adjust and just stayed the same for every game - then i would blame the coaching staff. just my opinion.

I didn’t mean “on the hook” to say this was all his fault. The head coach does bear a great deal of responsibility for a season, but as I explained, I don’t think he did a bad coaching job and I don’t blame him for what happened this year. It is a two-way street, as you put it.

Regardless, I think you and I are mostly on the same page.

 

[Walker Fan]

I think that the problems with this team are multi-causal.

1. Lumpkin’s toughness and Tap’s senior leadership and outside shooting was supposed to be replaced by Falzon’s shooting, Rap’s game and Gaines’ slashing style. None of these hopeful predictions panned out;
2. McIntosh and Lindsey were supposed to take it to the next level of development. Has not happened although there have been flashes like Lindsey v. DePaul and McIntosh v. UM. Maybe they don’t have that extra gear needed to adjust when they are the focal points of opponent’s defenses;
3. Law has developed his game, but he still can’t dribble penetrate which has caught him at times (see his old high school teammate Matthews of UM stripping the ball from him at UM);
4. Pardon is a gamer but Lindsey and McIntosh do not feed him enough. He is a leader;
5. Bench has been a big disappointment
6. Coaching staff needed to create a tougher defense early on. Maybe play Benson at the 5 and Pardon at the 4. Skelly is a short minute player who needed to come off the bench;
7. Brown/Ash fiasco. He stagnates the offense and plays defense with his hands. Brown’s offense like Demps was needed in GTech, OSU, Rutgers, Creighton games that were all winnable games and the difference from a 19-8 record and a 15-12 record. The influx of 4 4-star players and a emerging big man (Young) will hopefully, be the difference and new home arena in Evanston will be the difference.

 

[Mossreportdos]

The upside to this season is that maybe Collins will grow from it. He obviously erred at the beginning of the season by failing to go back to basics. These are young men not pros.

The other good thing is that we probably don’t have to worry about Collins jumping ship so fast. I still have hope for the Big Ten Tourney and hope the seniors can finish strong. Go Cats.

 

[NJCat]

The other good thing is that we probably don’t have to worry about Collins jumping ship so fast. .

I don't think you need to worry about that in any event. Phillips made it very clear when Collins signed the contract extension that the financial terms made it extremely hard for either party to break the contract.

 

[xxjfgxx]

This season has nothing to do with CC and everything to do with piss poor performances by key upper classmen. CC has got to be massively disappointed in his supposed “leaders”. How can you blame horredous shooting and chronic turnovers on the coach. His only mistake was being too loyal and not planting their asses on the bench early on. I know he can’t wait for the infusion of talent on the way.

 

[JournCat]

Collins is definitely on the hook for this year. One of the biggest things to me is the lack of player development from last year to this year. I didn’t see improvement in BMac, Lindsey, Law — anyone other than Pardon, the only guy, to me, who brings it every night. And they’ve been maddeningly inconsistent, which is inexcusable for such a veteran team. Defense, turnovers, shooting, lack of assists, fouls - it’s like a different culprit was at the root of every loss.

But is this his worst coaching job? I was impressed with his switching to that morphing
2-3 zone, how quickly the team picked it up and the impact it had on the season. They instantly went from a team that was struggling terribly defensively to one that relied on defense to win games. That was a good coaching decision and an excellent teaching job, in my opinion.

He also adapted his style and tried just about everything to spark the team. He screamed at them at times, took a calmer/teaching approach at times and tried motivational tactics like taking away their jerseys for practice. Nothing seemed to have a lasting impact. I don’t think you can blame him for a lot of the atrocious shooting that cost them plenty of games.

The one thing that should be laid at his feet, though, is not getting them in shape to start the season. BMac’s comments a couple weeks ago were alarming to me. And Collins readily admits that he should’ve been harder on the team early. So that argument holds water.

Collins gets a lot of heat from this board on his substitutions, or lack thereof. But he’s always done that. BMac, Law and Pardon are averaging fewer minutes per game than last year. The guy uses a short bench. It worked last year, not this one. As for Brown’s playing time, specifically, I think we all saw against Rutgers why Collins doesn’t play him. I would say putting Ash ahead of Brown in the rotation was another good coaching move, even if I didn’t agree with it initially. Ash has been one of the few bright spots this year.

Oh, and as for the stitches comment — I believe that was a case of, before he went into the press conference, a trainer told him that Pardon would probably need stitches. Turned out that he didn’t. It wasn’t a blatant lie.

Putting aside his press conferences (and I probably should have in the OP), most of what you’re saying here can be traced to player development and preparation. And while seniors deserve blame, when you can count maybe six or seven guys who didn’t get better or regressed from last year, that’s a system failure.

I stand by saying this being his worst coaching job due to the talent on the roster and the experience we had coming back. A lot of the motivational tactics you mentioned here were appropriate for a bunch of freshmen or even a high school team. I remember thinking how much trouble we must be in after seeing the players in blank purple shirts.

Going to a zone was a good move. He’s proven a few times now that he can make midseason adjustments after the stuff hits the fan. But the offense remains such a jumbled mess in so many games. Once opponents figured out how to stop Mac, we’ve had no backup plan. The players don’t cut hard, they don’t make passes to initiate actions, and so many possessions run down to the last 10 seconds and then we hope someone can make a tough shot. That’s coaching. I’ve heard broadcasters say that we have the most detailed playbook in the Big Ten, but it’s hard to see in a lot of games.

Anyway, he’s a first time head coach and I think he’ll fix what’s wrong this off season.

 

[NJCat]

Anyway, he’s a first time head coach and I think he’ll fix what’s wrong this off season.

I'm curious when he is no longer a "first time head coach". For example, you could say the same about Jim Boeheim, who has never coached anywhere but Syracuse. Same with John Thompson Senior at Georgetown. Is it after 5 seasons (this year), 10, 25 seasons at NU? Is it after he wins a Big 10 title? When can that qualifier no longer be used?

 

[Turk]

Since CC offered his rant on this season being a "disaster" following the Michigan win, we have gotten blown out at Maryland and ... I can't type the words about what happened last night, but last night happened.

This is the worst job he's done in five years here. Guys we expected to emerge haven't. Entire recruiting classes are mostly invisible. And the seniors make freshmen mistakes like fouling a three-point shooter in the final minute. Whether or not Mac is in the game, the second half felt like one extended prayer that we could hold on. Against Rutgers.

I've also been troubled by his public statements ever since the Purdue game, when he made up from whole cloth that Pardon needing stitches. That was so easily disprovable that it was hard to call a lie. But he's been all over the map this year. I was actually more troubled when he was so positive after the Ohio State loss. Moral victories aren't what our program should be about anymore.

There's no Carmody truthing here. Collins was amazing last year and the incoming recruiting class is really exciting. He's still the right guy to lead the program. But he deserves more blame than anyone for this year's fiasco.

I think the problem is David Thompson

 

[Medill90]

The conditioning program is baked months in advance and I've got to believe is 99 percent the same as the prior year. It's a senior-heavy team. If the seniors didn't push themselves to get into condition, how is that the staff's fault?

Regarding player development, an issue with bringing in an older kid is that he doesn't have the same development curve in front of him. B Mac is old for his class and peaked his sophomore year. He's still very good, but the development phase is behind him. More difficult to explain a couple other seniors.

I'm an optimist when it comes to NU basketball and big picture this will all bode well. There's nothing like learning from failure. More talent is coming through the door in four months. The mistakes made the last 8 months won't easily be repeated.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

I'm curious when he is no longer a "first time head coach". For example, you could say the same about Jim Boeheim, who has never coached anywhere but Syracuse. Same with John Thompson Senior at Georgetown. Is it after 5 seasons (this year), 10, 25 seasons at NU? Is it after he wins a Big 10 title? When can that qualifier no longer be used?

this is an excellent question and one i have never thought of. maybe once the coach has been in unique situations? for instance making the round of 32 is old, but sweet 16 and high level games and beyond is uncharted? maybe reeling in the first 5-star? this is definitely the first season of dealing with a level of success and praise never seen before. maybe playing for a B1G championship.

but i agree we are moving a way from new coach and moving towards a coach in first time situations