DEAN LOWRY!
- Thread starter Hungry Jack
- Start date
They're loaded offensively because they have Tom Brady. Brady talked Gronkowski out of retirement and moved problem child Antonio Brown into his house. Everybody who has ever played with him loved the experience. By the way, how did New England do this year without him?
Not sure you have to work all that hard to convince people that Cam Newton is a giant downgrade from Tom Brady. The Patriots’ biggest issue this year is that some key defensive players opted out.
Totally agree. The three interceptions and one fumble recovery Brady made on defense were totally the key to the win yesterday. His amazing defensive play totally set up the Bucs' 3-yard, 20-yard, and 40-yard touchdown drives.
Brady is great, but trying to use that win as an example of Brady's greatness is just silliness.
Totally agree. The three interceptions and one fumble recovery Brady made on defense were totally the key to the win yesterday. His amazing defensive play totally set up the Bucs' 3-yard, 20-yard, and 40-yard touchdown drives.
Brady is great, but trying to use that win as an example of Brady's greatness is just silliness.
He's had a TON of these types of games in his career. It's unbelievable. He's an all time great, but the GOAT? To me, not a shot in hell. To me it's Rogers then Manning then Brees/Brady.
If he isn’t the GOAT, he is the luckiest guy in the history of the NFL.
Have you seen his wife?
Yep, all he does is win. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if others like me don't agree with you. It's been 18 years since Tampa had a play-off win. Brady joined them this year and now they have 2 of them. Wonder if it's coincidence or luck? What a mystery!
Who are the great quarterbacks of the last 18 years that played on the Bucs that you're evaluating Brady against?
Here are the quarterbacks from that time that he's compared against:
| 2002 | Brad Johnson (13) / Rob Johnson (2) / Shaun King (1) | [27] |
| 2003 | Brad Johnson (16) | [28] |
| 2004 | Brad Johnson (4) / Chris Simms (2) / Brian Griese (10) | [29] |
| 2005 | Brian Griese (6) / Chris Simms (10) | [30] |
| 2006 | Chris Simms (3) / Bruce Gradkowski (11) / Tim Rattay (2) | [31] |
| 2007 | Jeff Garcia (13) / Luke McCown (3) | [32] |
| 2008 | Jeff Garcia (11) / Brian Griese (5) | [33] |
| 2009 | Byron Leftwich (3) / Josh Johnson (4) / Josh Freeman (9) | [34] |
| 2010 | Josh Freeman (16) | [35] |
| 2011 | Josh Freeman (15) / Josh Johnson (1) | [36] |
| 2012 | Josh Freeman (16) | |
| 2013 | Josh Freeman (3) / Mike Glennon (13) | |
| 2014 | Josh McCown (11) / Mike Glennon (5) | [37] |
| 2015 | Jameis Winston (16) | |
| 2016 | Jameis Winston (16) | |
| 2017 | Jameis Winston (13) / Ryan Fitzpatrick (3) | |
| 2018 | Jameis Winston (9) / Ryan Fitzpatrick (7) | |
| 2019 | Jameis Winston (16) | |
| 2020 | Tom Brady (16) |
I'll gladly stipulate that he's much better than Brad Johnson, Rob Johnson, Shaun King, Chris Simms, Brian Griese, Bruce Gradkowski, Tim Rattay, Jeff Garcia, Luke McCown, Byron Leftwich, Josh Johson, Josh Freeman, Mike Glennon, Famous Jameis, and Fitzmagic. Is there someone in that list you think he should be evaluated against? That's quite the murders' row of QB talent. I'm sure Bears fans see a couple of names that are giving them PTSD.
Serious question: do you also measure baseball pitchers' performance by win total?
Win total and ERA are generally the basis for the Cy Young award, and I rarely disagree with the selections. However, if my favorite team acquires a new pitcher, I'm generally most interested in ERA. Does that answer your question?
And it's generally known that wins are a dumb measure for a pitcher. You can go 20-0 with a 5.00 ERA and a ton of run support, or you can go 2-10 with a 1.89 ERA and zero run support. Same principal for football; a QB can "win" a lot of games in spite of being mediocre if he has a good supporting cast.
They use the same "he's a winner" argument for Tebow and that was even worse than Brady. If Brady can will his team to victory, he should have willed that ball not to stick to David Tyree's helmet.
Tom Brady is the largest benefactor of luck in NFL history. Great QB paired with all time luck.
I am not buying the baseball analogy. What you describe could happen for a season or two, but no way in hell could you go 2-10 with 1.89 ERA for every season of a career. Luck, both good and bad tends to balance out.
Also, SP is a completely different animal than it was 2-3 decades ago. Pitch counts and flame throwers in the BP lead to the SP exiting after allowing his first hit post 5th inning. Just watch Joe Cool Manage. The bullpens are just way more impactful on the outcome of games than they ever have been.
We’ll just have to disagree on the talent versus luck argument. To me, TB 12 is Greg Maddux to Marino’s Kerry Wood. Less raw talent, but a PHD in winning.
And Trevor Bauer won the 2020 AL Cy Young with a 5-4 record because he was individually tremendous on a very bad team.
Yeah...Jacob deGrom says hi to the "wins and losses balance out over time" argument.
I don't know about "all time luck", but he has benefitted from good coaching and strong teams. He has also helped create and lead an environment where individuals sacrificed for the greater good of the organization. I think there are arguments to made for and against Brady as the GOAT. I just think that him being the best Tampa QB in 18 years is silly one. The Bucs are loaded on offense and were a QB who doesn't turn the ball over religiously like Famous Jameis did away from being a playoff team. That Brady is that QB doesn't prove him an all-time great. He was an all-time great before he got to Tampa. What the "best Tampa QB in the last 18 years" agrument proves is that he's better than Shaun King and Jeff Garcia. Woo-hoo!
Just gonna leave this here...
deadspin.com
Tom Brady remains the L.O.A.T. — Luckiest Of All Time
The false narrative will be ramped up.
deadspin.com
No... he assured us on another thread that his manhood was spectacular. We were all relieved.
Dumb.Just gonna leave this here...
Tom Brady remains the L.O.A.T. — Luckiest Of All Time
The false narrative will be ramped up.
A great point that should be emphasized everytime we consider Clayton Thorson's legacy, and also our offense's general aptitude during the years of elite run support from Mike Hankwitz and his men.
The two offensive transfers into the program for next year might signal a change in the Fitz strategy to play conservatively on offense and strangle the opponent with Hank. He must realize no matter who he has running the D, they will be a step back from the G.O.A.T. Hank, and he'll need to score more than he has in the past. Time will tell.
Part of me wonders whether O'Neil is just the fall guy for when the defense fails to live up to Hank's lofty standards, and then we cut him right quick, and elevate McGarigle or MacPherson. That move would protect the true successor to Hankwitz.
I'm just trying to make sense of all this, and this is the closest thing to something that makes sense that I can come up with.
You're kind of overanalyzing this maybe just a little. Stop and think about the entire process - Fitz had plenty of time to vet and select his next DC, it wasn't a last minute, rash decision. It's foolish to think that in the end he decided to select a scapegoat, that is simply nonsensical.
Why would you hire a guy expecting failure?
IMO, McG does not have enough coaching experience to be a DC: 4 years coaching LBs in college; 1 year as a QC assistant in Green Bay; and 3 years now at NU. He is close, but I think the notion that he works with O'Neill for a few years and then gets the job is pretty reasonable.
Rooting hard for the Pack today. Would love to see Dean and Lanny get a shot at a ring.
You do know that NFL football was played before the 21st century?
Really cool on the broadcast to see both guys shown as starters at the beginning of the game. Now the Pack needs to tighten up on the third down defense.
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