Every Big Freshmen in the Big Ten

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

The players listed below were the Big Ten freshmen who measured at least 6'10" and 225 lbs
That is approximately the size of Pete Nance.
(it is possible that one or two of these guys are redshirts, the source didn't distinguish)

Hunter Dickinson, Michigan 7'1" 255, 698 mins, 383 pts, 204 rebs
Zach Edey, Purdue 7'4" 285, 411 mins, 243 pts, 124 rebs
Cliff Omoruyi, Rutgers 6'11" 240, 343 mins, 87 pts, 91 rebs
Eduardo Andre, Nebraska 6'10" 228, 176 mins, 53 pts, 43 rebs
Dean Reiber, Rutgers 6'10" 225, 76 mins, 11 pts, 10 rebs
Matt Nicholson, NU 7'0" 255, 23 mins, 9 pts, 6 rebs
Josh Ogundele, Iowa 6'10" 285, 17 mins, 7 pts, 8 rebs

I can only present the facts and encourage you to draw your own conclusions.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

The players listed below were the Big Ten freshmen who measured at least 6'10" and 225 lbs
That is approximately the size of Pete Nance.
(it is possible that one or two of these guys are redshirts, the source didn't distinguish)

Hunter Dickinson, Michigan 7'1" 255, 698 mins, 383 pts, 204 rebs
Zach Edey, Purdue 7'4" 285, 411 mins, 243 pts, 124 rebs
Cliff Omoruyi, Rutgers 6'11" 240, 343 mins, 87 pts, 91 rebs
Eduardo Andre, Nebraska 6'10" 228, 176 mins, 53 pts, 43 rebs
Dean Reiber, Rutgers 6'10" 225, 76 mins, 11 pts, 10 rebs
Matt Nicholson, NU 7'0" 255, 23 mins, 9 pts, 6 rebs
Josh Ogundele, Iowa 6'10" 285, 17 mins, 7 pts, 8 rebs

I can only present the facts and encourage you to draw your own conclusions.

Andre, Reiner, Nicholson and Ogundele aren’t very good yet?

 

[CatJones]

Nicholson is taller, lighter, plays more, scores more, and rebounds less than Ogundele.

 

[willycat]

Nicholson is taller, lighter, plays more, scores more, and rebounds less than Ogundele.

Plays less as well.

 

[NJCat]

Ogundele is third string behind Garza and Nunge......Nicholson is third string behind Nance and Young?

BTW, Nunge is now in the Portal so Ogundele will be the starter in Iowa City next season.......

 

[GatoLouco]

Ogundele is third string behind Garza and Nunge......Nicholson is third string behind Nance and Young?

Yes he was. But I think his point derives from the inadequacy of Nance playing the five. Which led to no minutes for Nicholson and less minutes than Young should have gotten.

 

[pawildcat]

Nicholson is taller, lighter, plays more, scores more, and rebounds less than Ogundele.

23 minutes vs. 17 minutes is about as small as a sample size gets. One guy didn't even play a half of basketball during the season, and the other guy played barely more.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

GatoLouco is pretty close.
I was just wondering what other coaches do when they have a freshman who is at least as big as Pete Nance.
The answer is - they give them time on the court to show what they can do.

I mean, it sort of jumps out at you that there were three guys who stand 7 feet tall and weight 250 or more. Two of them made the all-freshman team. The other sat on our bench while we lot 13 straight games.

 

[hdhntr1]

The players listed below were the Big Ten freshmen who measured at least 6'10" and 225 lbs
That is approximately the size of Pete Nance.
(it is possible that one or two of these guys are redshirts, the source didn't distinguish)

Hunter Dickinson, Michigan 7'1" 255, 698 mins, 383 pts, 204 rebs
Zach Edey, Purdue 7'4" 285, 411 mins, 243 pts, 124 rebs
Cliff Omoruyi, Rutgers 6'11" 240, 343 mins, 87 pts, 91 rebs
Eduardo Andre, Nebraska 6'10" 228, 176 mins, 53 pts, 43 rebs
Dean Reiber, Rutgers 6'10" 225, 76 mins, 11 pts, 10 rebs
Matt Nicholson, NU 7'0" 255, 23 mins, 9 pts, 6 rebs
Josh Ogundele, Iowa 6'10" 285, 17 mins, 7 pts, 8 rebs

I can only present the facts and encourage you to draw your own conclusions.

Bigs often take a while to develop. The often have had growth spurts, grown pretty fast and take a while to get strong enough and get control of their lanky bodies. WIS used to make a living developing from giving them a RS year to being very, very solid by SR year. We have had examples here as well. Do you think Esch would have been what he was if he had not been here 6 years? Also depends on who is ahead of them. This year, we had both Nance and Young vying for minutes at the 5 so whose minutes do you see Nicholson getting?

Basically you have 2 to 3 guys that made any impact and the rest basically role players at best as Frosh

 

[hdhntr1]

GatoLouco is pretty close.
I was just wondering what other coaches do when they have a freshman who is at least as big as Pete Nance.
The answer is - they give them time on the court to show what they can do.

I mean, it sort of jumps out at you that there were three guys who stand 7 feet tall and weight 250 or more. Two of them made the all-freshman team. The other sat on our bench while we lot 13 straight games.

Sorry but not really true. Bigs are the most likely guys to get RSs. Heck Young was RS his frosh year. They often take some time to grow into their bodies. Long term they have something that can't be taught. Height. But that does not mean they truly have it under control as 18 year olds and are ready to play at this level. And better to have them playing as RS Srs with bodies that are developed and under control than as true Frosh. And they likely wanted to keep him from playing too much to void his RS. When we saw him getting minutes, we saw some glimpses but it was apparent that he was not quite ready and the extra year in development and in the weight room would help immensely.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

GatoLouco is pretty close.
I was just wondering what other coaches do when they have a freshman who is at least as big as Pete Nance.
The answer is - they give them time on the court to show what they can do.

I mean, it sort of jumps out at you that there were three guys who stand 7 feet tall and weight 250 or more. Two of them made the all-freshman team. The other sat on our bench while we lot 13 straight games.

You've got guys on your list that made huge impact, including B1G freshman of the year and guys who couldn't see the floor even on less than mediocre teams. The Big Ten is not a tryout camp. Better players play. Lesser players keep working hard in practice. The logical conclusion is that there's more to being a productive B1G player than just size.

Unless, of course, your pre-ordained conclusion is that Coach Collins is a drooling moron. Then you make the huge leap that Nicholson would be another Hunter Dickinson if only that idiot Collins would get out of his way.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

PURPLECAT88:

I don't think Collins is a drooling moron. I just don't think he knows what he is doing. The right approach to this season was to work Young as the center, which is his natural position, and Nance as the 4, which is his natural position. When those two were on the court together, we outscored our Big Ten opposition (in total).

Other coaches almost always get their freshman bigs on the court, because practice is not the same as a game. In practice Nicholson is going up against Young or Nance or maybe even Beran. Collins clearly undervalued Young, who was one of his two best players (the other candidate being Nance), so why wouldn't he undervalue Nicholson?

I think Collins was so set on the standard "one big and a bunch of guys chucking up 3's" offense that he did not play to the team's strengths (Nance and Young),in fact he actively avoided doing so. Nicholson could have subbed in for either of those two guys and gained valuable experience. Nothing crazy, just 5, 8 minutes a game, like the other coaches did with their big rookies.

 

[willycat]

PURPLECAT88:

I don't think Collins is a drooling moron. I just don't think he knows what he is doing. The right approach to this season was to work Young as the center, which is his natural position, and Nance as the 4, which is his natural position. When those two were on the court together, we outscored our Big Ten opposition (in total).

Other coaches almost always get their freshman bigs on the court, because practice is not the same as a game. In practice Nicholson is going up against Young or Nance or maybe even Beran. Collins clearly undervalued Young, who was one of his two best players (the other candidate being Nance), so why wouldn't he undervalue Nicholson?

I think Collins was so set on the standard "one big and a bunch of guys chucking up 3's" offense that he did not play to the team's strengths (Nance and Young),in fact he actively avoided doing so. Nicholson could have subbed in for either of those two guys and gained valuable experience. Nothing crazy, just 5, 8 minutes a game, like the other coaches did with their big rookies.

Why? If he didn't show the coaches much in practice, then he doesn't get many, if any minutes in games.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Why? If he didn't show the coaches much in practice, then he doesn't get many, if any minutes in games.

I don't trust Collins to assess the performance of his post players. Practice is practice. I'm sure Robbie Beran looks great in practice. Collins clearly doesn't even realize that Young and Nance are his two best players. He has stated that Robbie Beran is his best defensive player when he may be the worst defender on the team. Collins undervalues rebounding and size or he would have played Young and Nance together most of the game. So Nicholson sat on the bench. Had any other Big Ten coach been running our team, Nicholson would have gotten some playing time, because thats what coaches do to develop players that size.

 

[willycat]

I don't trust Collins to assess the performance of his post players. Practice is practice. I'm sure Robbie Beran looks great in practice. Collins clearly doesn't even realize that Young and Nance are his two best players. He has stated that Robbie Beran is his best defensive player when he may be the worst defender on the team. Collins undervalues rebounding and size or he would have played Young and Nance together most of the game. So Nicholson sat on the bench. Had any other Big Ten coach been running our team, Nicholson would have gotten some playing time, because thats what coaches do to develop players that size.

Your just plain wrong on just about everything!

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

You've got guys on your list that made huge impact, including B1G freshman of the year and guys who couldn't see the floor even on less than mediocre teams. The Big Ten is not a tryout camp. Better players play. Lesser players keep working hard in practice. The logical conclusion is that there's more to being a productive B1G player than just size.

Unless, of course, your pre-ordained conclusion is that Coach Collins is a drooling moron. Then you make the huge leap that Nicholson would be another Hunter Dickinson if only that idiot Collins would get out of his way.

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Your just plain wrong on just about everything!

Please provide any evidence, any tiny little shred of evidence that you think you possess.
I use statistics to form my opinions. What do you use? hope?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread.

The blind leading the blind.

 

[willycat]

Please provide any evidence, any tiny little shred of evidence that you think you possess.
I use statistics to form my opinions. What do you use? hope?

have you actually watched Nicholson try and play with the big boys?

 

[techtim72]

Isn’t giving younger players not fully ready for the big time typically dependent on having a lead? Just saying.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Isn’t giving younger players not fully ready for the big time typically dependent on having a lead? Just saying.

It is true that good teams have the luxury of big leads. But you can also play the big freshmen when you are down 15 with 3 minutes to go. Or down 20 in the second half... We had plenty of opportunities... and most coaches work them into the game for a few minutes even when it is competitive.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Comparing Nicholson to Dickinson is ridiculous.

 

[hdhntr1]

PURPLECAT88:

I don't think Collins is a drooling moron. I just don't think he knows what he is doing. The right approach to this season was to work Young as the center, which is his natural position, and Nance as the 4, which is his natural position. When those two were on the court together, we outscored our Big Ten opposition (in total).

Other coaches almost always get their freshman bigs on the court, because practice is not the same as a game. In practice Nicholson is going up against Young or Nance or maybe even Beran. Collins clearly undervalued Young, who was one of his two best players (the other candidate being Nance), so why wouldn't he undervalue Nicholson?

I think Collins was so set on the standard "one big and a bunch of guys chucking up 3's" offense that he did not play to the team's strengths (Nance and Young),in fact he actively avoided doing so. Nicholson could have subbed in for either of those two guys and gained valuable experience. Nothing crazy, just 5, 8 minutes a game, like the other coaches did with their big rookies.

So you are suggesting taking minutes from, according to you, the two best players in order to give minutes to a not ready Frosh? He had Nance and Young on the floor often enough but it depends on matchups. And having both of your bigs on the floor at the same time exposes you to foul trouble at the position.

And while Dickerson was #38 in the rivals 150. Omoruyi was a 4 star ranked 55 and with 18 offers and they had only one other center on the roster. Reiber was a PF listed at 6'9 with about 19 offers. While Edey was a less heralded three star unranked but did have offers from Baylor and MN. He did get some real playing time,as you point out, but Purdue did lose Harms so it is unlikely that he would have seen much of the floor had Harms still been there.

Nicholson was an unranked 3 star guy with one other power offer. He was likely deemed as a developmental recruit that had size but was not really ready. We had two solid guys ahead of him and it looked like he still had to adjust to his body. I look forward to where they can get him in another year but he was not ready this year. And having seen development of Pardon, Young and Nance in the position, I will trust the coaching staff on him more than I trust your view

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

When Nicholson was a junior and being recruited, he was 6'8" and 215 lbs. After Collins signed him he grew to 7'+ and 255 lbs.

Do you think that matters or not? If anything it is even more evidence in my favor. Surely Chris Collins had no reason to expect that monumental growth. He recruited a guy to play power forward, so I'm going to assume the kid has skills and is not a stiff. Otherwise why would Collins have recruited him?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Here are ALL of the Big Ten players who stand at least 7 feet tall and weigh at least 235 lbs...
There are only 6 in the entire league. Stats for league games.

Hunter Dickinson 7'1" 255, 14.1 ppg 7.8 rpg
Kofi Cockburn 7'0" 285, 18.3 ppg, 9.9 rpg
Zach Edey 7'4" 285, 7.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg
Joe Hedstrom 7'0" 247 only played a few minutes as a sophomore.
Liam Roberts 7'0" 235 11.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg

Matt Nicholson 7'0" 255 only played a few minutes as a freshman.

"Not surprisingly, Nicholson sees himself as a rim protector, rebounder and shot blocker at Northwestern -- though he emphasizes that he doesn't really know yet what head coach Chris Collins wants him to do."

"I can score if I have to, but I don't need points," he said. "If the team wins, the team wins. I will do whatever he wants me to. If he wants me to score 20 points a game, I'll score 20 points a game. If he wants me to give the ball to Miller (Kopp), I'll give the ball to Miller."

Poor guy.

 

[Hans]

Your just plain wrong on just about everything!

Collins did claim Robbie Beran was the best defender on the team, that had me scratching my head but it was said earlier in the season.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

When Nicholson was a junior and being recruited, he was 6'8" and 215 lbs. After Collins signed him he grew to 7'+ and 255 lbs.

Do you think that matters or not? If anything it is even more evidence in my favor. Surely Chris Collins had no reason to expect that monumental growth. He recruited a guy to play power forward, so I'm going to assume the kid has skills and is not a stiff. Otherwise why would Collins have recruited him?

Nicholson accepted the Scholarship one week after he was offered at 7’0 tall. They didn’t ever offer him as a PF. He didn’t grow 4 inches after they offered him. You are making things up to support your argument that CCC is a bum. Here is the comment from his commitment article.



The Wildcats think they can be even better in the future with a shot-blocking, 7-foot rim protector in the lane, which is why head coach Chris Collins offered Matt Nicholson a scholarship last week.

How do you know Matt again?

 

[hdhntr1]

When Nicholson was a junior and being recruited, he was 6'8" and 215 lbs. After Collins signed him he grew to 7'+ and 255 lbs.

Do you think that matters or not? If anything it is even more evidence in my favor. Surely Chris Collins had no reason to expect that monumental growth. He recruited a guy to play power forward, so I'm going to assume the kid has skills and is not a stiff. Otherwise why would Collins have recruited him?

Which means he had not really had a chance to get comfortable with his body. Growing 4 plus inches in a short time sort of makes it a bit difficult to control. Also has to develop the strength and coordination to play at this level. This is why it often takes time to develop Bigs. He was not ready last year. Give him a chance to get control of his body and develop his strength and coordination

 

[hdhntr1]

Nicholson accepted the Scholarship one week after he was offered at 7’0 tall. They didn’t ever offer him as a PF. He didn’t grow 4 inches after they offered him. You are making things up to support your argument that CCC is a bum. Here is the comment from his commitment article.



The Wildcats think they can be even better in the future with a shot-blocking, 7-foot rim protector in the lane, which is why head coach Chris Collins offered Matt Nicholson a scholarship last week.

How do you know Matt again?

He did indicate when they started to recruit him. That was likely a while before they actually offered him. But if he did have the growth spurt indicated. that would be a good reason why the coaching staff could not just plug him into the lineup. He had really not had a chance to get comfortable with his new size

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

He did indicate when they started to recruit him. That was likely a while before they actually offered him. But if he did have the growth spurt indicated. that would be a good reason why the coaching staff could not just plug him into the lineup. He had really not had a chance to get comfortable with his new size

Most top players start to get recruited very early nowadays. It certainly isn’t uncommon that a player starts be recruited no later than Sophomore year. To say NU was looking at Matt as a PF because they started recruiting him at 6’8 is supported by zero facts. To imply he had some advanced skill set for a big as a PF instead of C is made only to support WB’s constant shots at CCC. Ridiculous.

Now people call you out as a CCC apologist because you challenge the BS absurd statements made by the CCC haters. Works both ways.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Most top players start to get recruited very early nowadays. It certainly isn’t uncommon that a player starts be recruited no later than Sophomore year. To say NU was looking at Matt as a PF because they started recruiting him at 6’8 is supported by zero facts. To imply he had some advanced skill set for a big as a PF instead of C is made only to support WB’s constant shots at CCC. Ridiculous.

Now people call you out as a CCC apologist because you challenge the BS absurd statements made by the CCC haters. Works both ways.

24/7 sports listed Nicholson initially as
"Matt Nicholson is a 6-8, 210-pound Center (BK) from Clarkston, MI. "
Xavier and Creighton offered him on about May 1, 2019.
NU offered him on July 1, 2019, in the summer before his senior year.
He signed with NU in September of 2019.
The last 24/7 update has him at 6'10" 215.
Rivals has him as 6'11" 215.
Nicholson visited exactly ONE school, by the way, so it has to be pretty obvious that Collins was recruiting him in early 2019 or before that.
He is currently almost 7'1" and listed at 255lbs.
Do I know Matt Nicholson? No. Did he tell my kid at NU in October that he had grown a couple inches after signing with NU and put on a lot of weight? Yes.

Here's a description of his game from NU coach Brian James...

 

[willycat]

24/7 sports listed Nicholson initially as
"Matt Nicholson is a 6-8, 210-pound Center (BK) from Clarkston, MI. "
Xavier and Creighton offered him on about May 1, 2019.
NU offered him on July 1, 2019, in the summer before his senior year.
He signed with NU in September of 2019.
The last 24/7 update has him at 6'10" 215.
Rivals has him as 6'11" 215.
Nicholson visited exactly ONE school, by the way, so it has to be pretty obvious that Collins was recruiting him in early 2019 or before that.
He is currently almost 7'1" and listed at 255lbs.
Do I know Matt Nicholson? No. Did he tell my kid at NU in October that he had grown a couple inches after signing with NU and put on a lot of weight? Yes.

Here's a description of his game from NU coach Brian James...

View embedded media

Wonder if he will be back on the roster next season?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I think, or I guess, hope so. He should have gotten more of an opportunity this year. If he doesn't play next year, he is almost certainly gone.

 

[hdhntr1]

24/7 sports listed Nicholson initially as
"Matt Nicholson is a 6-8, 210-pound Center (BK) from Clarkston, MI. "
Xavier and Creighton offered him on about May 1, 2019.
NU offered him on July 1, 2019, in the summer before his senior year.
He signed with NU in September of 2019.
The last 24/7 update has him at 6'10" 215.
Rivals has him as 6'11" 215.
Nicholson visited exactly ONE school, by the way, so it has to be pretty obvious that Collins was recruiting him in early 2019 or before that.
He is currently almost 7'1" and listed at 255lbs.
Do I know Matt Nicholson? No. Did he tell my kid at NU in October that he had grown a couple inches after signing with NU and put on a lot of weight? Yes.

Here's a description of his game from NU coach Brian James...

View embedded media

Again, that is a pretty good growth spurt (5 inches in a little over a year) and makes it likely it takes a bit for the coordination to catch up as he adjusts to his new body. He likely still has the potential they saw in him but it takes a little longer to develop. Again, we saw Young RS. Pardon would have probably have RS if not for an injury pressing him in to service. Cannot remember if the RS Benson. It is the nature of Bigs that they are often less ready to make an impact than guys at other positions and they benefit the most with a RS year. But with the new transfer rules it might make an actual RS less likely. Fact is that he was not really ready to play as a true Frosh (needed to get stronger and get his coordination more under control)and we did not have the minutes to really give him

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Again, that is a pretty good growth spurt (5 inches in a little over a year) and makes it likely it takes a bit for the coordination to catch up as he adjusts to his new body. He likely still has the potential they saw in him but it takes a little longer to develop. Again, we saw Young RS. Pardon would have probably have RS if not for an injury pressing him in to service. Cannot remember if the RS Benson. It is the nature of Bigs that they are often less ready to make an impact than guys at other positions and they benefit the most with a RS year. But with the new transfer rules it might make an actual RS less likely. Fact is that he was not really ready to play as a true Frosh (needed to get stronger and get his coordination more under control)and we did not have the minutes to really give him

Thanks for the response, but you don't know and I don't know if Nicholson was ready or not.
The one fact is that Collins did NOT give him an opportunity.
As I posted, every other big freshman in the Big Ten got minutes, except for the kid at Iowa.
Several of those guys were lanky, built more like Pete Nance, but they got court time, playing on better teams.

It is Collins' refusal to "go big" that held the team back this year. My concern is that the head coach can't adjust his approach to the size and ability of his players. If Nicholson doesn't get time next year, he will go play elsewhere and do well. As an NU fan, I really hope that doesn't happen.

 

[willycat]

Thanks for the response, but you don't know and I don't know if Nicholson was ready or not.
The one fact is that Collins did NOT give him an opportunity.
As I posted, every other big freshman in the Big Ten got minutes, except for the kid at Iowa.
Several of those guys were lanky, built more like Pete Nance, but they got court time, playing on better teams.

It is Collins' refusal to "go big" that held the team back this year. My concern is that the head coach can't adjust his approach to the size and ability of his players. If Nicholson doesn't get time next year, he will go play elsewhere and do well. As an NU fan, I really hope that doesn't happen.

You do understand that the reason he didn't play more was because he wasn't good enough, right. Oh you don't understand that. Got it.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

The reason Nicholson didn't play is because Collins didn't put him in the game.
Anything beyond that is speculation.
Surely you will admit that.

 

[hdhntr1]

Thanks for the response, but you don't know and I don't know if Nicholson was ready or not.
The one fact is that Collins did NOT give him an opportunity.
As I posted, every other big freshman in the Big Ten got minutes, except for the kid at Iowa.
Several of those guys were lanky, built more like Pete Nance, but they got court time, playing on better teams.

It is Collins' refusal to "go big" that held the team back this year. My concern is that the head coach can't adjust his approach to the size and ability of his players. If Nicholson doesn't get time next year, he will go play elsewhere and do well. As an NU fan, I really hope that doesn't happen.

Collins and the coaching staff see him in practice every day. As you say, you do not know and I would trust Collins and company before I would you. Bigs generally take longer to develop (especially when they have just had a 5 inch growth spurt)and the guy that can walk right in and deserve minutes is rarer than you suggest, especially when they were recruited as more of a developmental project which NU often has to do is bringing in the second tier guy rather than the fully developed stud. Collins has shown that when a Frosh is ready to play he gets the chance. And again, I watch what the staff did with Olah, Pardon, and Young and I trust them to have a better handle on it than you.

 

[hdhntr1]

You do understand that the reason he didn't play more was because he wasn't good enough, right. Oh you don't understand that. Got it.

And it isn't that he will not get good enough. Just that last year he was not really ready

 

[Secho99]

The reason Nicholson didn't play is because Collins didn't put him in the game.
Anything beyond that is speculation.
Surely you will admit that.

There’s so many legitimate things to criticize the coach about that this is a weird thing to focus on. It’s speculation for us as fans because we don’t spend every day with the kid. If an entire coaching staff doesn’t think a guy’s good enough to play it’s pretty likely that it’s true. I’m far from a huge fan of CC, but I at least trust that he and the staff understand the basics of the sport they coach for a living.