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Every year around this time.......

DarthCat

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Jun 5, 2001
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I really miss the release of the new EA Sports NCAA Football installment. Son and I used to look forward to that all summer. Shame. Absolutely nobody won in the cancellation of that franchise. You can't tell me players on the team didn't love getting that game, and being able to play using their likenesses.
 
And.....your point?

The point I was making is that as 'Player Rights' groups argue over and again for players to get paid like employees, I don't think the end result is going to be what they realize. If they get their way that is.

The complaints against the NCAA football video game didn't result in any further distribtion of cash to players. It just got cancelled. Nobody won. It was like two siblings fighting over a toy, so dad just takes it away.

If college football moved to a model where schools were paying and treating their players like employees, I think the result would be similar. Many, many schools, and I fear NU would be one, would no longer see participants in athletics as "student athletes", and would simply close up shop for particular sports. There would be far far fewer scholarships to go around, fewer avenues to a higher education for kids who couldn't otherwise afford it, and the $$$ coming in would decline rapidly as there are fewer teams/games and probably fan interest, as it would make college football no different than the NFL.

Protect the players with full 4 year scholies? YES
Give lifetime medical to players for injuries suffered playing in college? YES

The college football experience shouldn't cost players at all, and I'm all for reforms that protect them and keep greedy schools from taking advantage. But this idea of paying them and giving them a financial cut of the billions NCAA football brings in, won't work, and the result will be similar to what we saw with the EA Sports NCAA game. Nobody wins.
 
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I'm sorry you lost your video game.

EA simply canceled when faced with a legal challenge - a challenge that was imminent the day they decided to use player numbers and near-likenesses. There certainly would have been a workable solution that preserved the game and allowed some compensation (EA funded player lounges?), but they chose to simply cancel because the franchise wasn't profitable enough.

The same thing happened early in Madden - there weren't names for the first five-ish years, until they paid.

I am sympathetic to your loss. But college athletes shouldn't be the only people in the world with no control over the use of their likeness.

Would the game have been as interesting to you if, say, there were generic numbers? Say, same gameplay, same customizations, but every QB was #1, every RB #20, every WR #81?

EA must have known that the numbers mattered.
 
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I'm sorry you lost your video game.

EA simply canceled when faced with a legal challenge - a challenge that was imminent the day they decided to use player numbers and near-likenesses. There certainly would have been a workable solution that preserved the game and allowed some compensation (EA funded player lounges?), but they chose to simply cancel because the franchise wasn't profitable enough.

The same thing happened early in Madden - there weren't names for the first five-ish years, until they paid.

I am sympathetic to your loss. But college athletes shouldn't be the only people in the word with no control over the use of their likeness.

Would the game have been as interesting to you if, say, there were generic numbers? Say, same gameplay, same customizations, but every QB was #1, every RB #20, every WR #81?

EA must have known that the numbers mattered.
It was flat out greed. And the players didn't need paid for their likeness being used. I think most were happy to see themselves in the game.
 
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It was flat out greed. And the players didn't need paid for their likeness being used. I think most were happy to see themselves in the game.

Easy to say when it's not your likeness being used to profit millions and millions for others.

If I were a player and saw that I'd absolutely want a cut too
 
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My "liberal butt"? Not sure what that means, but I'm a registered republican, so okay. And FTR I haven't said a word to you in months.

Just because you asked a handful of players and they didn't care doesn't mean that's the uniform thought of college football and basketball players across the country. There's a reason the game doesn't exist anymore, one of them being players wanted there cut.

If you don't think Johnny Football, Cam Newton, and myriad other CFB players haven't seen themselves on the covers of and in video games and thought to themselves, "man, if other people are making (TONS) of money off my image, then why can't I?" you're the one who's crazy
I would be willing to bet there are far more college athletes who would rather have the game come back with their likeness with no compensation, then not. A small minority was greedy and saw a payday.
 
I would be willing to bet there are far more college athletes who would rather have the game come back with their likeness with no compensation, then not. A small minority was greedy and saw a payday.

Doesn't matter. People are profiting off the likeness of others. Either everyone should get paid or no one should get paid.

If I opened up a gym and smacked your face on a billboard along 294 or something and used it as a way to profit for my business, while you received not one cent, what would you say? I'll even toss you a free $60 month long pass (about the cost of the video game), while I rake in the dough. I'm talking millions. What would you say?
 
Doesn't matter. People are profiting off the likeness of others. Either everyone should get paid or no one should get paid.

If I opened up a gym and smacked your face on a billboard along 294 or something and used it as a way to profit for my business, while you received not one cent, what would you say? I'll even toss you a free $60 month long pass (about the cost of the video game), while I rake in the dough. I'm talking millions. What would you say?
If Call of Duty used my likeness in their next video game, I would love that. I wouldn't need compensation either.
 
Doesn't matter. People are profiting off the likeness of others. Either everyone should get paid or no one should get paid.

If I opened up a gym and smacked your face on a billboard along 294 or something and used it as a way to profit for my business, while you received not one cent, what would you say? I'll even toss you a free $60 month long pass (about the cost of the video game), while I rake in the dough. I'm talking millions. What would you say?
If a big name gym asked me if they could use my likeness in magazines and billboards, I would be flattered and would most certainly do it for free.
 
It doesn't really matter what either of us think or anyone else for that matter. The game is not coming back and I won't be beating up OSU online with NU
 
If a big name gym asked me if they could use my likeness in magazines and billboards, I would be flattered and would most certainly do it for free.

Again, you have to speak for yourself. That's your prerogative.

If it were me I'd sue and even with 0.00 knowledge of anything related to the law, I would bet I'd win
 
If a big name gym asked me if they could use my likeness in magazines and billboards, I would be flattered and would most certainly do it for free.

And they're not asking you. They're doing it without your consent
 
Again, you have to speak for yourself. That's your prerogative.

If it were me I'd sue and even with 0.00 knowledge of anything related to the law, I would bet I'd win
I am sure you would win. If you spilled hot McDonald's coffee on yourself and got burned and sued you would also win..
 
We can't turn this into a political discussion. We have different views on the EA thing. It is what it is. The game isn't coming back. Enough said on my opinion. Someone else can state theirs
 
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Here's an alternate perspective... being a pro sports athlete is about being a celebrity. Your "likeness" is a huge part of your brand. Having that brand already furthered by EA while you are in college, creating fans and greater brand awareness, is essentially a free form of marketing for the players.

I think the EA profit element would be easily solved through donations to some nonprofit organizations. EA improves their own brand through publication of a video game that people love to play, and then positive PR through the donations to nonprofits. These NFPs could be helping the overall college football community: providing scholarships, providing medical support to former athletes, providing career counseling, etc. If EA were to establish the corporate grants, I'm quite sure that numerous start-up NFPs would pop-up to try and obtain them.

So, by bringing back the game but NOT paying players, there is much good that could be done both for the players that become pros and those that don't. It just needs to be structured differently.
 
If a big name gym asked me if they could use my likeness in magazines and billboards, I would be flattered and would most certainly do it for free.
That's the crux of it. The big name has the big advantage over the little guy if no one is getting paid. Would you feel the same way if it was just Fred's Gym with one location in Arlington Heights or something?
People should have the right to be paid for the value they provide. When the system is set up so they can't be, that system is ripe for exploitation.
 
Yeah, I am quite the socialist. I am not greedy. Big difference

But you're okay with other people being greedy at your expense? Doesn't check out

There's a difference between being greedy and getting paid for your worth
 
Here's an alternate perspective... being a pro sports athlete is about being a celebrity. Your "likeness" is a huge part of your brand. Having that brand already furthered by EA while you are in college, creating fans and greater brand awareness, is essentially a free form of marketing for the players.

I think the EA profit element would be easily solved through donations to some nonprofit organizations. EA improves their own brand through publication of a video game that people love to play, and then positive PR through the donations to nonprofits. These NFPs could be helping the overall college football community: providing scholarships, providing medical support to former athletes, providing career counseling, etc. If EA were to establish the corporate grants, I'm quite sure that numerous start-up NFPs would pop-up to try and obtain them.

So, by bringing back the game but NOT paying players, there is much good that could be done both for the players that become pros and those that don't. It just needs to be structured differently.
I agree. But EA decided it wasn't worth the effort. They had to know the day was coming.

Personally, I was shocked when the game first came out, that it could exist and be licensed by the schools and NCAA. I was even more shocked a few years later when my brother provided a pre-loaded memory card that had every D-1 player's name alongside their number. (The internet does amazing things.) It was fun to win a Heisman with Baz.
 
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Easy to say when it's not your likeness being used to profit millions and millions for others.

If I were a player and saw that I'd absolutely want a cut too

And so now they get nothing.

I bet if they were given the choice of not getting paid but getting to see their likenesses in a game or nothing, they'd choose the former.
 
It was flat out greed. And the players didn't need paid for their likeness being used. I think most were happy to see themselves in the game.
If you mean players were greedy, I strongly disagree. Name another multi billion dollar sport where the athlete gets nothing. Horse racing?

As for "free education" blah blah. If you mean a state school, the player could earn more and risk less working full time at home depot and paying his own way at a state school, and most privates have "need based" aid policies, NU included. I can personally confirm this. I worked part time while at NU and had very little debt at the end.

So a typical athlete "earns" about 20k a year in scholarship money, working at one of the most hazardous jobs available.

Anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong when Fitz (and Saban?) gets millions and players get the holy scholarship has lost their sense of smell. It stinks
 
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Wow, you paid your almost entire four year NU tuition with a part time job? Were you selling drugs? Maybe stripping?

They don't have to play phatcat. Those full time jobs at Home Depot, Target, etc. are there for the taking to make the lives of all NCAA college football players infinitely better than they are for those playing college football. Funny though, you never hear of a kid turning down a schollie for the incredible opportunity offered by Lowes. You talk like coaches are roaming the aisles of these places and forcing kids onto the football fieldagainst their will.

But here was my point. These kids have been playing football for almost a decade before getting to college, for free. They paid largely for their own equipment, medical care, specialized training, etc. Hell, IMG charges them 75,000 per year tuition to be a part of that program. You think IMG isn't making money off of them? But kids and families jump at the chance to pay and be a part of that.

Then they get to college and all that stuff is free. They get medical, free equipment, room, board, the most specialized and dedicated training of their lives. Hell, the free protein powder and supplements alone costs more than they'd make in a part time job. (Sarcasm).

Not to mention the 'blah blah blah' tuition that smart families sacrifice and save their entire lives to afford. That's all free.

But because coaches and networks are making what they are (despite most college football programs still operating in the red), the cry is that players deserve more. They must be paid, even though they are getting more back than they have ever done in their entire lives playing football, and most schools operate at a loss to provide that to them.

Why suddenly are they considered victims in many corners when they get to college, when they are getting so much compared to the return they got playing football for the previous 10 years? It's only because by comparison, it isn't enough compared to what the coaches and schools get (again, even though those schools are largely losing money already in providing all that they do).

If these proponents get their way, I think the end result won't be a glorified socialist system of "workers" rights, but the end of the institution they rallied against. Many many many schools simply won't play in that environment, essentially 'hiring' football players AND providing them free education and everything else they do, and will close up their programs. The result won't be what these proponents want in terms of financial equity, but a loss of opportunities to play football and earn a college education for many kids who wouldn't have those opportunities otherwise.

EA Sports' NCAA football simulation will have served as the simulation of the institution as a whole, and just like with that game, nobody will win and the institution will simply cease to exist.

chicagocatfan24 said it best, "Everyone should get paid or no one should get paid." That is what will happen. No one will get paid (at least not what the protesters and 'player rights' advocates think they should), and these groups will only be able to take pride in the fact that the evil NCAA Football institution is gone.
 
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You sure live up to your name, DarthCat, with that post. Nothing but dark side there.

Your prophesy of doom, though, matches very closely to what baseball owners and their supporters were saying when Curt Flood, and later Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally, challenged the reserve clause. Only the rich teams will survive. Teams will fold as the smaller markets can't afford to compete. Blah, blah, blah. As it happened, baseball is far more competitive than it was during the Yankee-dominated half-century before free agency. Franchise values have skyrocketed. Attendance and media-consumption (tv, radio, internet) of baseball have never been higher.

If history is any guide, Fear-mongering about players rights leading to the demise any sport has been greatly exaggerated.
 
Frankly, I think those baseball doom sayers have been proven exactly right in regard to small market teams not competing. Yeah yeah yeah. I know that every year a small market team makes the playoffs and some huge market teams suck. There is the human decision making equation in there that no amount of money can buy the right decision or see the future.

Attached is a decent article about the real factor of payrolls vs. wins in a baseball season.

I understand your parallels, but this is really a different argument and different situation all together.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dont-be-fooled-by-baseballs-small-budget-success-stories/
 
You sure live up to your name, DarthCat, with that post. Nothing but dark side there.

Your prophesy of doom, though, matches very closely to what baseball owners and their supporters were saying when Curt Flood, and later Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally, challenged the reserve clause. Only the rich teams will survive. Teams will fold as the smaller markets can't afford to compete. Blah, blah, blah. As it happened, baseball is far more competitive than it was during the Yankee-dominated half-century before free agency. Franchise values have skyrocketed. Attendance and media-consumption (tv, radio, internet) of baseball have never been higher.

If history is any guide, Fear-mongering about players rights leading to the demise any sport has been greatly exaggerated.
All true, but along with the rise in popularity of baseball have been skyrocketing ticket proce
You sure live up to your name, DarthCat, with that post. Nothing but dark side there.

Your prophesy of doom, though, matches very closely to what baseball owners and their supporters were saying when Curt Flood, and later Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally, challenged the reserve clause. Only the rich teams will survive. Teams will fold as the smaller markets can't afford to compete. Blah, blah, blah. As it happened, baseball is far more competitive than it was during the Yankee-dominated half-century before free agency. Franchise values have skyrocketed. Attendance and media-consumption (tv, radio, internet) of baseball have never been higher.

If history is any guide, Fear-mongering about players rights leading to the demise any sport has been greatly exaggerated.
All very true, but remember, baseball was hurting for a period of time. Then came steroids. Baseball businesses eventually adjusted. Small markets discovered moneyball and farm club development as a means to fight against bigger markets. Can you foresee a strategy for institutions like Northwestern to fight the big boys when football players becomes employees?

Further, I think you underestimate the strong academic resistance to athletics. The new paradigm might be seen as just the development certain forces need to undermine the whole endeavor.

Side question: Wouldn't paid players make it far easier for the big boys to slide a little extra incentives along to players without being noticed? This would further put us at a disadvantage.
 
Side question: Wouldn't paid players make it far easier for the big boys to slide a little extra incentives along to players without being noticed? This would further put us at a disadvantage.

The big boys already pay players, like the preferred method in the SEC of stuffing book bags with cash. Oklahoma State doesn't even pretend, they just pass out envelopes of cash in the locker room. I believe these practices are rampant in big programs. Of course the fringe benefits like gang rapes and academic cheating are part of the perks.

I wonder if some of the payouts are regulated if that would help even while acknowledging that cheaters will cheat. I am in favor of stipends for athletes, based on financial circumstances, or even across the board, so that guys like Jameis Winston don't have to steal food while bringing in millions for the university.
 
The big boys already pay players, like the preferred method in the SEC of stuffing book bags with cash. Oklahoma State doesn't even pretend, they just pass out envelopes of cash in the locker room. I believe these practices are rampant in big programs. Of course the fringe benefits like gang rapes and academic cheating are part of the perks.

I wonder if some of the payouts are regulated if that would help even while acknowledging that cheaters will cheat. I am in favor of stipends for athletes, based on financial circumstances, or even across the board, so that guys like Jameis Winston don't have to steal food while bringing in millions for the university.

Source?
 
Jameis Winston stole expensive crab legs, not hamburger and Ramen noodles.
 
If you're going to steal because you got the munchies but don't have cash, why settle for ramen noodles? ;)

True. When I see shoplifting at the grocery store, it's always in the meat or seafood section. Those thieves were eating very well, and eating a lot!

The point was that I don't think Winston was starving.
 
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