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Extremely disappointed with Collins' coaching and demeanor

AlliCat_is_back

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May 2, 2011
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1 - Did we gameplan for OU / Young at all? If they are getting it to Young and running out after made baskets, why not put Ash or Brown on them full court? Try to deny the inbound or at least occupy him. You can't just let him pick his head up and get a full head of steam coming down court.

2 - Pardon is by far our most effective option AND shooting from the post slows them down coming back the other way, rather than threes and long rebounds. We could also post up Young, and we've done that once. We should be throwing it in to the post every possession, and instead we've done it 20% of the time, and now we're down by too much to slow it down.

3 - It seems Collins makes no attempt to communicate with officials, and it is killing us. We've gotten horrible treatment from officials all year, and tonight is no different. They've called multiple illegal screens on us, and haven't called one on OU, despite that their bigs are moving and holding whoever is guarding Young. On that inbound with 3 minutes left in the first, their big has his arms extended and is grabbing Brown to keep him away from Young at the three point line. Collins looking right at it and says nothing as Young is wide open for a three.

I think the Gonzaga technical spooked Collins in the wrong way - he doesn't even plead his case any more. Pointing things out for the officials to look for is effective, especially coming from a head coach. I've seen OU's coach and Young himself chatting with officials all game, Collins is just stoic, a la Texas Tech.

No, I am not saying we would be winning this game - even with the best gameplan, or fair treatment from the officials. We are severely overmatched without Law. They are hot. We would be down by 10 even addressing the above. But we shouldn't be allowing 70 points and down by 30 at half. That is completely unacceptable. These players have been with Collins for four years and look lost, like there is no gameplan at all.
 
Collins talks to the refs plenty. One could definitely question the effectiveness of said talking, given the results.

Game plan was pretty clear, and with a more talented team would have been ok. There were plenty open shots early in the game we didn't hit. Gotta think multiple efforts like this in a season say something about our senior "leaders."
 
This team is sooo disappointing. They must have read too many press clippings and spent too much time patting themselves on the back over the summer. What a huge step backwards this year.
 
This team is sooo disappointing. They must have read too many press clippings and spent too much time patting themselves on the back over the summer. What a huge step backwards this year.

Yeah, this season was almost DOA that first game.
 
OU hit 14 threes in the first half. Young was hitting them from almost half court. Blame the coaching and players, but sometimes you run into a hot team.
 
OU hit 14 threes in the first half. Young was hitting them from almost half court. Blame the coaching and players, but sometimes you run into a hot team.
Agree that OU was on fire in the first half. Pretty amazing. Trae Young is for real.
 
Lindsay was again a no-show. He's either all-in, or all-out. That is not acceptable for a senior and I hope he gets focused for the stretch run of his collegiate career.
 
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Lindsay was again a no-show. He's either all-in, or all-out. That is not acceptable for a senior and I hope he gets focused for the stretch run of his collegiate career.
Scottie has been a moody player throughout his career. I doubt he will change half way through his final season.
 
Lindsay had another "Georgia Tech" game and that sure didn't help, but if he was going to have it, might as well be in a game we had no chance of winning. I actually liked some things our bench players did tonight and Benson got some necessary minutes against P5 players. Bench must come through for us to salvage this season.
 
Your senior captains, Lindsey and McIntosh can not go 5 for 25 and expect you to beat a top 20 team on the road. Collins’ demeanor did not cause Scottie to go 1-12 and 0-8 from 3s. Also, for NU to beat quality power conference teams - McIntosh, Lindsey and Law need to perform like 4th year players and at high levels and not like inconsistent younger players.

To keep it in perspective, four of NU’s five losses have come against top 20 teams who have gone 43-6. The loss to GTech was inexcusable, but the other losses were against quality opponents with two of those losses on the road.
 
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He has justifiably won plenty of praise. Criticism is fair, too.
Sure, but we gave Carmody 13 years, give Collins at least 13 months. He knows basketball and has proven it, who the heck are we to lay in to the guy like he is a fraternity pledge who doesn't know how to mop a floor.
 
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Oh-oh...starting already--Carmody carping redux?

Not like Carmody carping at all. I like Collins and I think the program is headed in the right direction. I'm extremely excited about this incoming class. Nobody calling for his job - overall he's done very well and is a great fit for the program.

But his coaching recently can rightfully be criticized. If someone can explain to me what the defensive gameplan was against Young, I'm all ears. Hedge a bit more on ball screens? That's it? To my eyes, there was no gameplan at all.

Other teams have trapped Young in the backcourt and forced him to give it up, and they've had some success with it. If you deny him the inbound or pick him up full court you can at least slow him down and prevent run outs. Teams have been doing that to BMac all year, with pretty good effectiveness. Heck, OU did this to NU throughout the first half - look at our early possessions: they hound BMac all the way up the court and force him to give the ball up far above the three point line. Or they deny BMac the inbounds and forced the ball into Ash's hands. That possession BMac didn't touch it, Ash turned it over.

We did none of that! Instead, we let Young feel his first pressure at the three point line coming downhill with momentum. He'd either pull up, or more often he's coming with momentum and he'd do a crossover and dribble drive, force help, and find the open man. We didn't disturb or disrupt him or their offense at all. We let them do whatever he wanted.

I'm not suggesting it's easy to stop a great player like Young, but you can slow him down and force the ball into other players' hands. Other teams have done this and will do this to him. For them to score 70 in the first half is absurd.

It's absolutely baffling that they picked us up full court, even when up 20. And we didn't. Not once. Young felt no pressure from our D - he was free to move about with no resistance. Young has played 10+ college games. Everyone knows what they wanted to do and how he plays, and we had absolutely no plan to counteract it - no energy, no hustle and hounding the other team. Complacency. Collins exuded that and the team reflected it. That's what's so disappointing.
 
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Not like Carmody carping at all. I like Collins and I think the program is headed in the right direction. I'm extremely excited about this incoming class. Nobody calling for his job - overall he's done very well and is a great fit for the program.

But his coaching recently can rightfully be criticized. If someone can explain to me what the defensive gameplan was against Young, I'm all ears. Hedge a bit more on ball screens? That's it? To my eyes, there was no gameplan at all.

Other teams have trapped Young in the backcourt and forced him to give it up, and they've had some success with it. If you deny him the inbound or pick him up full court you can at least slow him down and prevent run outs. Teams have been doing that to BMac all year, with pretty good effectiveness. Heck, OU did this to NU throughout the first half - look at our early possessions: they hound BMac all the way up the court and force him to give the ball up far above the three point line. Or they deny BMac the inbounds and forced the ball into Ash's hands. That possession BMac didn't touch it, Ash turned it over.

We did none of that! Instead, we let Young feel his first pressure at the three point line coming downhill with momentum. He'd either pull up, or more often he's coming with momentum and he'd do a crossover and dribble drive, force help, and find the open man. We didn't disturb or disrupt him or their offense at all. We let them do whatever he wanted.

I'm not suggesting it's easy to stop a great player like Young, but you can slow him down and force the ball into other players' hands. Other teams have done this and will do this to him. For them to score 70 in the first half is absurd.

It's absolutely baffling that they picked us up full court, even when up 20. And we didn't. Not once. Young felt no pressure from our D - he was free to move about with no resistance. Young has played 10+ college games. Everyone knows what they wanted to do and how he plays, and we had absolutely no plan to counteract it - no energy, no hustle and hounding the other team. Complacency. Collins exuded that and the team reflected it. That's what's so disappointing.
I’ll ignore the other stuff, but you have to be kidding on Young. No one has game planned him and no one has stopped him. The only person who could is an NBA level defender...we don’t have one. There’s no game plan for a player like that other than having an incredible defender who won’t allow him to get the ball. I repeat, we don’t have one. Wichita St., who was #3 in the country when they played OU, doesn’t have one. The kid was making NBA range threes, he’s quick as all hell, he’s smart. I think he actually had more turnovers against us than he’s had in a bit.

What you CAN do is make shots and keep playing your game. Our senior “leaders” did not make shots. The end.
 
I’ll ignore the other stuff, but you have to be kidding on Young. No one has game planned him and no one has stopped him. The only person who could is an NBA level defender...we don’t have one. There’s no game plan for a player like that other than having an incredible defender who won’t allow him to get the ball. I repeat, we don’t have one. Wichita St., who was #3 in the country when they played OU, doesn’t have one. The kid was making NBA range threes, he’s quick as all hell, he’s smart. I think he actually had more turnovers against us than he’s had in a bit.

What you CAN do is make shots and keep playing your game. Our senior “leaders” did not make shots. The end.

Pull-up threes are defended with ball pressure. Defender needs to be in the offensive player's face, hounding them. Young shot 6 of 8 on threes in the FIRST HALF, most of which weren't even off of screens, they were simple pull-up threes, often because our defender had his heels at the three point line rather than picking him up earlier. You don't need an "NBA level defender" to stop pull up threes. Steve Wojo at Duke wasn't NBA level and he would have been right in Young's face, making him uncomfortable.

Other teams have pressed Young, trapped him, denied him the ball. You can't stop him, but he shot 9-22 against Wichita State, 4-11 from 3. With those numbers you still have a chance (Wichita State shot 30-70, 6-24 from three, and lost by 8). Against us Young finished 8-13 from three, and OU as a team was 17-28 from 3. No chance.

Making shots would have helped but it wasn't going to get us into triple digits. If we were going to have a shot at even keeping this game close, it would be because we executed a defensive gameplan to disrupt what they wanted to do offensively. We didn't do that at all.
 
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Pull-up threes are defended with ball pressure. Defender needs to be in the offensive player's face, hounding them. Young shot 6 of 8 on threes in the FIRST HALF, most of which weren't even off of screens, they were simple pull-up threes, often because our defender had his heels at the three point line rather than picking him up earlier. You don't need an "NBA level defender" to stop pull up threes. Steve Wojo at Duke wasn't NBA level and he would have been right in Young's face, making him uncomfortable.

Other teams have pressed Young, trapped him, denied him the ball. You can't stop him, but he shot 9-22 against Wichita State, 4-11 from 3. With those numbers you still have a chance (Wichita State shot 30-70, 6-24 from three, and lost by 8). Against us Young finished 8-13 from three, and OU as a team was 17-28 from 3. No chance.

Making shots would have helped but it wasn't going to get us into triple digits. If we were going to have a shot at even keeping this game close, it would be because we executed a defensive gameplan to disrupt what they wanted to do offensively. We didn't do that at all.
And with the “quickness” of our guards, extending the defense to guard where Young was pulling up from would have led Pardon to foul out in the first half. He was driving past us at will...Imagine giving him more space to do that.

It’s not an issue of game plan, irs an issue of personnel.
 
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This team is sooo disappointing. They must have read too many press clippings and spent too much time patting themselves on the back over the summer. What a huge step backwards this year.

You could say this about much of the Big 10 this year. There is NO excuse for a league with the facilities, fan support and financial resources the B1G has to be as flat-out awful as they are this year. Maybe the new coaches will resurrect some of the underperforming programs. We'll see.
 
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1) Do you really think Lindsey and BMac can pick up much of anybody full court? Their defense has been HORRIBLE.

2) I agree with you the guards didn't look to Pardon nearly enough.

3) I understand you're looking for solutions to that game, but there's not much you can do to defend someone who can go to the basket and also pop from four-or-five steps behind the three.

4) If you think Collins doesn't communicate with officials, you need to attend more games in person. I wonder if his affect is the opposite - an annoyance with being in their ear too much.
 
You could say this about much of the Big 10 this year. There is NO excuse for a league with the facilities, fan support and financial resources the B1G has to be as flat-out awful as they are this year.
I don't know...the relative strength of the top conferences has always waxed and waned over the years, depending on who's rebuilding at the time.
 
Don't forget Purdue--#5, according to Ken Pomeroy. But yeah, it's a pretty steep dropoff in the B1G after that.
Two top 5 KenPom teams, and EVERY TEAM in the Kenpon top 100. That hasn't happened, well, in the existence of KenPom and almost never happens with ANY conference.

The BIG is just fine.
 
And with the “quickness” of our guards, extending the defense to guard where Young was pulling up from would have led Pardon to foul out in the first half. He was driving past us at will...Imagine giving him more space to do that.

It’s not an issue of game plan, irs an issue of personnel.

Agreed, but I think Collins exacerbated it by starting Ash. Ash was terrible on defenae, and it put us in a huge hole right off the bat.
 
Agreed, but I think Collins exacerbated it by starting Ash. Ash was terrible on defenae, and it put us in a huge hole right off the bat.
Wrong! See my thread on Ash vs Young! He only scored two threes on Ash the entire game. And Ash made him misss twice in the second half. Also, Ash made him turn the ball over in the first half! They made four threes on Mac. Ash made two threes to keep us in the game and was pulled shortly. The proof is in the pudding! Ash will start the rest of the way and has proven he is our best guard! The real headline is Scottie Lindsey. Ten turnovers. Eight missed shots, a couple turnovers,and horrendous defense!
 
1) Do you really think Lindsey and BMac can pick up much of anybody full court? Their defense has been HORRIBLE.

2) I agree with you the guards didn't look to Pardon nearly enough.

3) I understand you're looking for solutions to that game, but there's not much you can do to defend someone who can go to the basket and also pop from four-or-five steps behind the three.

4) If you think Collins doesn't communicate with officials, you need to attend more games in person. I wonder if his affect is the opposite - an annoyance with being in their ear too much.
Mac doesn’t play defense! He got burned for four threes against Oklahoma and was 4-13! That’s eleven turnovers when you count his two turnovers. Oklahoma exposed Mac and Scottie. It was horrible. Falzon looked good, 4-7 from three point land
 
Wrong! See my thread on Ash vs Young! He only scored two threes on Ash the entire game. And Ash made him misss twice in the second half. Also, Ash made him turn the ball over in the first half! They made four threes on Mac. Ash made two threes to keep us in the game and was pulled shortly. The proof is in the pudding! Ash will start the rest of the way and has proven he is our best guard! The real headline is Scottie Lindsey. Ten turnovers. Eight missed shots, a couple turnovers,and horrendous defense!
I believr he was scored on more that twice in the BTN highlights alone. I will post when they become available to confirm. Ash has had good defensive nights; this was not one of them.
 
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