Fast Breaks

[clarificationcat]

One of the things that I appreciated when Collins took over was that we were able to hold our own on the boards and we could defend without relying on gimmicky defenses. We still may not be quite as athletic as some of our opponents but it's not as apparent as it was under Carmody. And this year we took it to another level and actually bullied some really good teams, which I never imagined would happen.

Having said that, I feel like we remain a really poor fast break team. I have been saying for years that it seems like about half of our fast break opportunities result in a turnover or a bad shot that leads to easy points for the opponent. We rarely convert on fast breaks that are not uncontested breakaways. We make bad decisions with the ball, make bad passes and finish poorly at the rim. Some of that is the athleticism of our players but I wonder if that can be an area of emphasis in the off season. Seems like something that can be improved through extra drills. We were the better half-court team yesterday. We had a few fast break opportunities and got nothing out of them. They converted on almost every one of their chances. It would be great to even that out a little bit, especially with all the steals our defense generates.

 

[ballerog711]

They don't not space the floor on breaks. Totally agree. Players learn that in 8th grade. Decisions need to be better when passing on breaks.

Other thing I can't stand and when Boo drives and takes a shot, the other guard should circle back on defense to stop the opponent from getting easy leak out baskets.

 

[clarificationcat]

They don't not space the floor on breaks. Totally agree. Players learn that in 8th grade. Decisions need to be better when passing on breaks.

Other thing I can't stand and when Boo drives and takes a shot, the other guard should circle back on defense to stop the opponent from getting easy leak out baskets.

That’s the other thing. Good point. Can’t give up easy baskets like that when we work so hard on half court defense.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Having said that, I feel like we remain a really poor fast break team. I have been saying for years that it seems like about half of our fast break opportunities result in a turnover or a bad shot that leads to easy points for the opponent. We rarely convert on fast breaks that are not uncontested breakaways. We make bad decisions with the ball, make bad passes and finish poorly at the rim. Some of that is the athleticism of our players but I wonder if that can be an area of emphasis in the off season. Seems like something that can be improved through extra drills. We were the better half-court team yesterday. We had a few fast break opportunities and got nothing out of them. They converted on almost every one of their chances. It would be great to even that out a little bit, especially with all the steals our defense generates.

Watching your team blow a fast-break is like watching your closer blow a game in the 9th inning. You think it only happens to you. Then you watch a bunch of games around the league and you see that it happens to everyone. You just notice it more when it happens to you. Watching the tournament has made me feel much less bad about NU's flaws.

 

[CappyNU]

UCLA was 2nd in the country in eFG% in transition, we were 315th. We were also 355th of 363 in % of shots taken in transition at 14.5%, UCLA was at 21%, so they clearly, as Cronin himself said during an in-game interview, emphasized getting out in transition and putting pressure on our guards due to the lack of depth, more so than they usually would..

 

[ballerog711]

UCLA was 2nd in the country in eFG% in transition, we were 315th. We were also 355th of 363 in % of shots taken in transition at 14.5%, UCLA was at 21%, so they clearly, as Cronin himself said during an in-game interview, emphasized getting out in transition and putting pressure on our guards due to the lack of depth, more so than they usually would..

Wow, that a crazy stat

 

[GatoLouco]

Not the only problem but, for me, the main issue is that 🦵 speed does not equal 🦵 strength. And we lack 🦵 strength. Speed goes back, forward, left, right. Strength helps going up.

Despite the Wrasslerization of the previous, it is a serious statement.

 

[Katatonic]

One of the things that I appreciated when Collins took over was that we were able to hold our own on the boards and we could defend without relying on gimmicky defenses. We still may not be quite as athletic as some of our opponents but it's not as apparent as it was under Carmody. And this year we took it to another level and actually bullied some really good teams, which I never imagined would happen.

CC definitely has the better philosophy/focus on D, but would say the athletic talent towards the end of BC's tenure wasn't all that different from this team.

This year's team was 33rd in defensive efficiency.

The prior 2 years, was 144th and 176th (can chalk it up to some maturation, but mostly the change in system).

The 2013 team with all BC's recruits was 79th.

If they had played in Lowery's system, think they could have finished in the 30s-40s.

The 2012 team (if healthy and eligible) was even more talented defensively.

Had 4 plus defenders in Cobb, Hearn, Crawford and Swop and a frosh Olah (also had frosh Lumpkin and Demps).

That's comparable to the 4 plus defenders of the 2016 team (Lindsey, Law, Lumpkin and Pardon) and BMac.

Would give a slight edge to the 2016 team as it is easier to hide the weak point (guard) when you have 3 good perimeter defenders who can also ably defend penetrating guards.

 

[Secho99]

They don't not space the floor on breaks. Totally agree. Players learn that in 8th grade. Decisions need to be better when passing on breaks.

I watch a ton of HS basketball and the overall ability of teams to run a fast break has really diminished over the years. I don't know if the fundamental elements that I learned as a kid aren't being taught that way anymore or what, but I've seen way too many bleak 2-on-1s and 3-on-1s the last few years. It doesn't help that so many kids stop at the 3-point line or run to the corners.

 

[techtim72]

I watch a ton of HS basketball and the overall ability of teams to run a fast break has really diminished over the years. I don't know if the fundamental elements that I learned as a kid aren't being taught that way anymore or what, but I've seen way too many bleak 2-on-1s and 3-on-1s the last few years. It doesn't help that so many kids stop at the 3-point line or run to the corners.

Based on announcer comments, the supporting players are coached to spread and go to the corners if I understood him correctly. I always thought one player was to trail slightly on the opposite side of the basket looking for the pass or the missed shot.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

UCLA was 2nd in the country in eFG% in transition, we were 315th. We were also 355th of 363 in % of shots taken in transition at 14.5%, UCLA was at 21%, so they clearly, as Cronin himself said during an in-game interview, emphasized getting out in transition and putting pressure on our guards due to the lack of depth, more so than they usually would..

The UCLA part of this makes sense to me. It seems they’re so good because they’re an elite defensive team with A> an elite, versatile scorer and B> they can break out of their grind pace and run on you for a bucket at any second, and frequently do. A Defensive grinder with free buckets.

 

[FanatiCat]

Their fast breaks broke us in the end, which were mostly off of missed shots and not steals. After we tied it up it seemed like we took some unnecessary bad/quick shots which led to fast break points for them. After it was tied perhaps we should have super slowed it down to shorten the game and try to get the best shot selection, or drive to the basket late in the shot clock to try to draw fouls. Seemed like we got happy feet and felt like we had to put up contested or off balance shots.

 

[elgatoloco]

The classic HS fast break doesn't seem to be around much anymore, from what I've seen. Nicholson's high school has been good in transition for a long time, and their guys are taught from an early age how to get up the court with spacing and how to attack the basket. When the Loyers attended transition was a huge advantage. But at most schools it's whoever has the ball just goes to the rim. Nobody on the wing clears to the opposite side anymore.

 

[TheC]

I realize I'm becoming an old-timer, but one thing that is different about the fast break these days is that it has become a one-on-one play. It used to be about passing the ball. I remember when I was in school and Indiana came to WR Arena. This was when Damon Bailey was the star for IU. They got a steal from us and went back the other way on a 2-on-1 fast break. The ball didn't touch the floor once. It was an immediate pass, followed by a pass-back, followed by a pass and then a dunk. It was a thing of beauty.

I watch our guys go down the floor on the break and I keep screaming - pass the ball! They never do. If you aren't going to pass right away, then at least, your job as the ball handler is to make the defender commit. If he comes to you, you pass. If he stays away, you go up strong. Our guys get caught in the middle so many times. The indecisiveness kills us. Then, add on top of that, our perplexing inability to make contested layups (heck.... even non-contested, sometimes).

But I totally agree with the OP. Our fast break is terrible and a wasted opportunity. Need to do some more 3-man weave drills!

 

[NUCat320]

I realize I'm becoming an old-timer, but one thing that is different about the fast break these days is that it has become a one-on-one play. It used to be about passing the ball. I remember when I was in school and Indiana came to WR Arena. This was when Damon Bailey was the star for IU. They got a steal from us and went back the other way on a 2-on-1 fast break. The ball didn't touch the floor once. It was an immediate pass, followed by a pass-back, followed by a pass and then a dunk. It was a thing of beauty.

I watch our guys go down the floor on the break and I keep screaming - pass the ball! They never do. If you aren't going to pass right away, then at least, your job as the ball handler is to make the defender commit. If he comes to you, you pass. If he stays away, you go up strong. Our guys get caught in the middle so many times. The indecisiveness kills us. Then, add on top of that, our perplexing inability to make contested layups (heck.... even non-contested, sometimes).

But I totally agree with the OP. Our fast break is terrible and a wasted opportunity. Need to do some more 3-man weave drills!

Hopefully it becomes a point of emphasis this offseason. Those stats are crazy — I get the closer analogy from @PURPLECAT88 , but it’s like the Cats are running out Matt Barnes and the Bruins had Emmanuel Clase. (Draft tomorrow night, fellow nerds.)

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Hopefully it becomes a point of emphasis this offseason. Those stats are crazy — I get the closer analogy from @PURPLECAT88 , but it’s like the Cats are running out Matt Barnes and the Bruins had Emmanuel Clase. (Draft tomorrow night, fellow nerds.)

Our draft/auction is Saturday. 38th consecutive year of a league founded in the spring of 1986 in Willard. Probably the only league in the world that includes three NU basketball season ticket holders. 12 teams. 5x5. full-season. NL-only.
The rest of you can just ignore this post while @NUCat320 and I just nerd out about the start of the baseball season.

 

[clarificationcat]

CC definitely has the better philosophy/focus on D, but would say the athletic talent towards the end of BC's tenure wasn't all that different from this team.

This year's team was 33rd in defensive efficiency.

The prior 2 years, was 144th and 176th (can chalk it up to some maturation, but mostly the change in system).

The 2013 team with all BC's recruits was 79th.

If they had played in Lowery's system, think they could have finished in the 30s-40s.

The 2012 team (if healthy and eligible) was even more talented defensively.

Had 4 plus defenders in Cobb, Hearn, Crawford and Swop and a frosh Olah (also had frosh Lumpkin and Demps).

That's comparable to the 4 plus defenders of the 2016 team (Lindsey, Law, Lumpkin and Pardon) and BMac.

Would give a slight edge to the 2016 team as it is easier to hide the weak point (guard) when you have 3 good perimeter defenders who can also ably defend penetrating guards.

I wasn't trying to say that the athletic ability was that different. Just pointing out that under Collins we stopped relying on more gimmicky defenses like the 1-3-1 (and slowing the game down on offense) and got better at rebounding. We were just more of a finesse team under Carmody (for good and bad). Now we try to play teams even up.

But the point of the post was that we are still really poor on fast breaks (and the stats apparently bear that out). I am not kidding when I say that unless there is an uncontested layup or dunk, we would be better off waiting to set up our offensive. Berry had an opportunity on a fast break and drove to about 4 feet from the basket. He missed a runner and UCLA got the rebound and turned it into a fast break basket. 4 point turn around. We had another opportunity with Barnhizer ahead of the pack and made a bad pass that almost led him out of bounds. During the season, we had a bunch of layup attempts blocked and passes stolen which led to fast break baskets for the other team. Our half-court defense is so good that it's not worth the risk.

 

[Katatonic]

We still may not be quite as athletic as some of our opponents but it's not as apparent as it was under Carmody.

Did point out the difference in philosophy/focus, but the way you phrased made it open to interpretation that way...

Think BC was trying to change the way his team played D (at first with going with more size/bulk at the 5, which ended up a failed experiment) and then by improving the athleticism (which he really never got to utilize due to injuries, etc).

But no doubt that the D has reached its height under CC.

Now, if CC can just find a way to make the O average and then we'd be really talking...

What is with both programs that they're only good on one side of the ball?