Forde Nails NU

Discussion in 'Wildcat Football Board' started by Fitzphile, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Fitzphile

    Fitzphile Well-Known Member
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    Pat Forde just skewers the reluctance of three coaches to embrace change.....ouch!:

    Fatigue with the status quo. Three schools are led by the winningest coaches in program history, all of whom are mired in an offensive malaise that is dragging down their teams. Kirk Ferentz at Iowa, Mark Dantonio at Michigan State and Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern are a combined 3-7 in league play, while presiding over the Nos. 94, 98 and 128 scoring offenses in the nation, respectively.In the big picture, all three head coaches have earned the benefit of the doubt — but the doubts are gaining strength here in 2019. They are proud, loyal and stubborn, aligning themselves with longtime assistants and basically daring anyone to call them on it. Fitzgerald has had the same offensive coordinator, Mick McCall, for 12 years now. Last year, with a four-year starting quarterback, the Wildcats were 124th nationally in yards per play. This year, they’re 130th and dead last, and their lone victory is over UNLV. They have not ranked higher than 84th in yards per play since 2011. The Fitz formula has worked well for a long time — but why not try to energize the offense and aim even higher? Why not try to reach the level where Notre Dame currently operates, and where Stanford did for several seasons earlier this decade?

    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/the-big-ten-is-really-good-and-really-bad-what-gives-033948705.html
     
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  2. CatMan2006

    CatMan2006 Well-Known Member
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    CatMan nailed it well before Pat Forde.

    And if we don’t beat duhOSU, I may just have to try out a new handle. So our Cats better play to win!
     
  3. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    LOL. Three of the best coaches in the history of their respective programs. Guys who are not just living on past success but who have had strong recent success. All of a sudden they have a slow start to a season and clowns like Pat Forde come out with these sweeping generalizations. I don’t blame Fitz for saying he doesn’t care. If he had listened to sports writers and fans, he would have gotten himself fired a long time ago.
     
  4. BigNUFan51

    BigNUFan51 Well-Known Member
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    Just because they have been great coaches doesn’t mean they should be absolved from criticism. I’ll never forget listening to an interview with Jerry Reese (GM Giants) after winning his second super bowl in four years where he was asked if he has a lifetime job. His response was prophetic; “there are no lifetime jobs in this business”. Five years later both he and Tom Coughlin were tired.
     
  5. Purple Pile Driver

    Purple Pile Driver Well-Known Member
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    All 3 have a job as long as they want it, barring a scandal.

    All three fanbases are frustrated with lost opportunities with very good to great defenses. Can you blame them? All 3 don’t care what us silly fans think. That’s fine, but then don’t coming belly aching about fan support when you treat fans like pimples on a tough guys butt. It’s Fitz’s candy shop, he can and will do what he wants. NU basically is using a 1970’s three yards and a cloud of dust offense and when you as a fan think the game is over when you go down by more than one score, it’s not good.

    What did Forde say that was untrue or even controversial? All 3 teams have been hindered by subpar offenses for a number of years now. It’s painful.
     
  6. Alvious

    Alvious Well-Known Member
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    #FitzDontCare
     
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  7. IGNORE

    IGNORE Well-Known Member
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    Great point. Don’t bitch about fan participation after saying you don’t what the fans think.
     
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  8. TejasCat

    TejasCat Well-Known Member
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    Great post.
     
  9. pawildcat

    pawildcat Well-Known Member
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    There were a lot of teams that didn't use three and a cloud of dust in the '70s, which is why Woody, Bo started to lose a lot of Rose Bowls.
     
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  10. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    I don’t blame any fan for being disappointed and frustrated with losing. I blame fans and sports writers for overreacting and panicking as soon as things don’t go well. All three of these coaches have had long term success. They are not perfect but they are among the best in their profession. They’ve been in this kind of situation before and fixed the problems. There is no reason to believe they won’t do it again.
     
  11. HappyNUyear

    HappyNUyear Well-Known Member
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    No coaching job in sports is guaranteed for life. Ask many well respected coaches and their staffs who’ve been successful at one location and then Fired.

    Joel Quenneville winningest coach in St Louis Blues history at the time and then fired. Winningest coach in Chicago Blackhawks history, Three-Time Stanley Cup Champion and Second Winningest Coach in NHL History. Fired by Blackhawks after a decade for many failures near the end.

    Joe Maddon fired by Cubs after WS and many NLCS and other playoff appearances.

    Sports is a business and yes even in college and should things become stale, change is sometimes needed and even the best can and will be fired if they themselves fail to make changes. Shit happens!
     
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  12. Purple Pile Driver

    Purple Pile Driver Well-Known Member
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    I agree that all three have been strong Coaches. That’s acknowledged in the quote from the OP. If this was an isolated season where we just got stuck in the mud on offense, I would be onboard with the overreaction. Boards/fans overreact after every game, both good and bad. In the case of NU, the deterioration of offensive production has been a slow steady decline. I can see us getting close to the middle of the pack with the status quo, but I have a hard time every seeing a top quartile offensive with the current OC. Maybe it’s the HC scheme and not the OC as you have suggested, I don’t know, but I do know the frustration extends beyond the fans.
     
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  13. HappyNUyear

    HappyNUyear Well-Known Member
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    Agreed, The frustration runs deeper then the fanbase and higher up.
     
  14. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    I think coaching longevity in college is different than in the pros. College coaches can last much longer in one place because the players naturally change over and are only exposed to the coach for 4-5 years. In the pros, even a great coach's message and tactics get stale after a while and if their players stop responding to them, it's time to make a change. You can't fire all the players so you have to fire the coach. That's what happened with Q and Maddon. Fitz is in a completely different situation.
     
    14 corbi296, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  15. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    I've never suggested it was the head coach's "scheme". What I've said is that Fitz believes in a certain formula to win football games and the style our offense plays now is part of that Fitz dictated formula. Clearly, we need to recruit and develop better talent than what we have now and signficantly improve the execution on offense over what we are seeing now in order to achieve the success Fitz and all of us want. Even after that happens, I am not sure that you'll ever see " a top quartile" offense at NU under Fitz and that should not be the goal. It certainly is not Fitz's goal and this is a perfect example of what I think he means when he says statistics are for losers. The goal is not to have an offense that scores more points than most other teams in the country, the goal is to win football games by having an offense that scores more points than your opponent in that particular game while doing so in a way that helps your defense optimize their level of play. We are nowhere near that point now but I am fully confident we'll get there soon.
     
    15 corbi296, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  16. curdog

    curdog Well-Known Member
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    Man you are as stubborn as Fitz. Overreacting??? As the article said, NU has been abysmal offensively for nearly a decade! If you and Fitz are ok with this offense, good for you. Then Fitz should stop taking about winning championships and stop criticizing the fan base for not showing up. Because you won’t win any championships with this offense. Period.
     
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  17. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    Man are you thick. The only goal is to win football games, not to look good in the offensive stats column. The two are not synonymous. That certainly is Fitz's goal, it's my goal and it should be your goal also.
     
  18. Hungry Jack

    Hungry Jack Well-Known Member
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    Like, umm, the Big Ten West?
     
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  19. SmellyCat

    SmellyCat Well-Known Member
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    I've leery of wading into these arguments, but I will anyway - I don't think Fitz or Corbi are "ok with this offense" - I think they're ok with the strategy of winning with defense, ball-control offense, etc. The offense is obviously not good enough right now to win, and that's why we're all complaining and the team is losing, but when the offense IS good enough (like last year, when an excellent and opportunistic defense combined with a mediocre-but-good-enough offense led to way more wins), it justifies the strategy.

    Wisconsin has dominated every team they've played this year - except NU. Why? Did the strategy almost work? Probably not, because the offense in 2019 is just not good enough, but it at least gave NU a shot, which is more than Michigan got against Bucky.
     
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  20. AtlantaCat

    AtlantaCat Well-Known Member
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    Not sure I understand why having an excellent and opportunistic defense excuses having a mediocre (or, as this year, spectacularly craptastic) offense. It would be great to have an excellent defense and even just a reasonably good offense, no? They are not mutually exclusive.
     
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  21. curdog

    curdog Well-Known Member
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    Yes, this is all anyone with a brain is saying. We don’t need to be Oklahoma, we just need to be (checks rankings) Texas st #55 ypp and this team would be 4-1 not 1-4. I’m just incredulous that’s people can defend McCall after 12 years of bad to awful offenses. It’s astounding
     
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  22. stpaulcat

    stpaulcat Well-Known Member
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    The only positive from a really bad losing season this year might be to cause Fitz to care enough to actually make substantive changes to his offensive strategy (and coaching staff). Fitz cares, no question--issue is, is continuing to do the same things while hoping the offense will get better than it's been for seven years a productive strategy?
     
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  23. curdog

    curdog Well-Known Member
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    I guess that’s a championship. And they won in spite of the offense.
     
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  24. curdog

    curdog Well-Known Member
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    What odds do you give that of happening. Cushing would still be on staff if he didn’t move on voluntarily
     
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  25. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    They are not mutually exclusive. An efficient, opportunistic and productive offense with a dominant defense fits Fitz's ideal of complementary football. Statically speaking, that may very well translate into a "mediocre" offense. Fitz's goal is not to have an offense that tops the statistical charts. His goal is to win as many games as possible and he believes that NU's best path to that goal is to pair a dominant defense with a ball control offense.
     
  26. stpaulcat

    stpaulcat Well-Known Member
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    Ball control offense doesn't mean having your running back predictably smash into the butts of his linemen every other play, for no gain. Well, maybe that is ball control--for the opposing team.
     
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  27. cedricmelons

    cedricmelons Well-Known Member
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  28. HappyNUyear

    HappyNUyear Well-Known Member
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    NU is almost like the White Sox & Bulls, they don’t like to move people out.
     
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  29. Fitz51

    Fitz51 Well-Known Member
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    Is that a championship? Thrilling!
     
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  30. phatcat

    phatcat Well-Known Member
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    Fitz will be coaching NU after most of us are dead, but he needs to be given very clear direction by Dr. Jim to a) fix the coaching problem and b) not be an arrogant, defiant d1ck when people criticize putrid performance.
     
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  31. stpaulcat

    stpaulcat Well-Known Member
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    I sent my email to Dr. Jim. I hope I'm not dead by the time he reads it.
     
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  32. mikero3

    mikero3 Well-Known Member
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    Actually some of us were panicked and complaining about the goofy offense and coach Mick BEFORE the season. But we were constantly bombarded with the Fitz “stats are for losers” mentality. This season and our offense is exactly where I thought we would be with stupid QB competitions and the less than mediocre coach Mick running the offense.
     
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  33. DaCat

    DaCat Well-Known Member
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    I guess the Wiskey game is what people call a moral victory. The thing that bothers me is that we should have won that game. And the Stanford game. And the Neb game. The only game I concede is the MSU loss, where we were just sh*tty and that happens, I accept that. But it rankles me that the Offense lost those other games that the Defense nearly won for us. That's what needs to change.
     
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  34. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    When haven’t you complained about something? It’s what you do. Some people are not happy unless they are constantly complaining about something. That’s you. When you are not complaining about the coaches and the team, you complain about NU fans because they don’t pay attention at games, because they leave early or because they sell their tickets to the opposition. Do I have it all covered? Remind me again, why the frick are you a NU fan?
     
  35. Fitz51

    Fitz51 Well-Known Member
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    Because he enjoys poor offensive performance in football.
     
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  36. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    That’s not it because he should be ecstatic at this point.
     
  37. PlayStrongPlayProud

    PlayStrongPlayProud Well-Known Member
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    In your view, what would warrant Mick getting fired? If NU had the worst offense in the country (statistically -- yds/game, pts/game, etc) for 5 years straight, but NU went 8-4 or 7-5 and won 3 bowls game, would you be satisfied with Mick? Trying to understand what metrics you use to measure whether Mick is doing a good job or not as OC.
     
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  38. willycat

    willycat Well-Known Member
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    I think you have complaining confused with constructive criticism. Honestly tell me you didn't think it took way to long to replace Cushing. Or that you think it's just fine that our "fans " sell their tickets to the opposition. Mike is a NU fan and they need a hell of a lot more of them. I'll be waiting for your positive post tomorrow regarding our fandom, mostly dressed in Scarlet and Gray.
     
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  39. DaCat

    DaCat Well-Known Member
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    The opportunity cost of this putrid offense is enormous.

    The narrative for this Friday night clash should've been # 4 dOSU (6-0) at # 20 Northwestern (4-1) in a rematch of last year's B1G Championship game. We could've invited a ton of recruits to watch this epic clash in an electric atmosphere, with a national TV audience watching.

    Instead, we have dOSU sleepwalking in against unranked and struggling Northwestern (1-4) featuring the worst offense in the country that will struggle to put up ANY points on the board, and in fact will be fighting not to be outscored by the opposing defense. And no high profile (uncommitted) recruits in attendance, and TV being bumped from ESPN to BTN.

    A big step backwards for our program.
     
  40. wildcatpn

    wildcatpn Well-Known Member
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    Guys like Corbi are so entrenched into their excuse making for Fitz and McCall that there is no turning back now. It doesn't matter how many times you say we just want an offense that is functional and doesn't cost the team games. They are too arrogant to change their stance now so they try to make it look like critics are asking for something that they're not actually asking for.
     
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