Forde Nails NU

Discussion in 'Wildcat Football Board' started by Fitzphile, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. phatcat

    phatcat Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. All of the things he attributes to Mikero are fair game

    Fitz accepts the accolades when they come his way - the narrative that he has less talented players but somehow gets the most out of them. Makes him look like a genius, and he basks in it. Have you every heard him refute it and say "are you kidding? We put kids in the NFL almost every year! They are talented"

    Then he is all butt hurt when someone criticizes him when things don't go well

    He is what ? 45? Should be in the prime of his career (as evidenced by last 4 years wins). Instead the offense looks like he just took over from someone that got fired (e.g any Illinois coach this century). Or as Shoat Cooper put it, a bunch of turds that dropped from a tall cow's a$$
     
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  2. JournCat

    JournCat Well-Known Member
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    Probably the most disappointing thing is we have a defense good enough to go back to Indianapolis. An average offense (say ranked in the 70s in the FBS) would have beaten Stanford and Nebraska and maybe Wisconsin if you take the 14 freebie points off the board. It'd be another thing if we just sucked because we were rebuilding. I don't know how you're a "fake fan" for lamenting that.
     
  3. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    There is nothing constructive about what you and Mikero post about. You guys are two peas in a pod.

    Like i’ve said repeatedly, the only legitimate target of your complaints should be Fitz because everything that has happened and is happening is a direct result of his philosophy and the decisions he has made. The talent we have on offense right now, the offensive philosophy, the play calling, the makeup of past and current coaching staffs is solely attributable to Fitz. I have been critical of certain decisions he has made or not made but I also believe that he made many more good decisions than bad ones and the unprecedented success this program has had on his watch reflects that. Fitz is an outstanding coach, leader and representative of the University. I can’t imagine anyone being better suited to be NU’s head football coach. Fitz is not perfect but the good far outweighs the bad and I always keep that in mind when I am posting about him and the team.
     
    43 corbi296, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  4. Mr Wickerpark

    Mr Wickerpark Well-Known Member
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    Clowns?
    I think the article made "good sense".
    You can disagree and continue to support McCall. Neither opinion makes someone a clown but you should know the saying by now?
     
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  5. SmellyCat

    SmellyCat Well-Known Member
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    Right. What I dislike most about the offense is not that it's bad, it's that it's predictable. It just happens to be bad because it's so predictable.

    Yes, an even "mediocre" offense paired with this defense could yield great things, such as last year's divisional championship. One can say that last year's numbers don't even rise to the level of "mediocre," but there were certainly flashes of great offense in a number of games we really haven't seen this year.

    Please don't mistake that understanding what Fitz's overall coaching strategy is equates to liking its execution in 2019.
     
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  6. AtlantaCat

    AtlantaCat Well-Known Member
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    There have been many straw men attacked in this thread. I agree that the Forde material quoted is "spot on".
     
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  7. AtlantaCat

    AtlantaCat Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="Please don't mistake that understanding what Fitz's overall coaching strategy is equates to liking its execution in 2019.[/QUOTE]

    Cue Coach John McKay joke.
     
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  8. hoosboot

    hoosboot Well-Known Member
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    You're correct...it doesn't mean that. ;)
     
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  9. hoosboot

    hoosboot Well-Known Member
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    Yards per play independent of everything else doesn't paint a complete picture. I think that's part of Corbi's point. There are a lot of variables that go into being successful and siloing stats into offensive and defensive performance that don't address any of those variables isn't always helpful.

    That's not to say that anyone should be happy with the offense we've played so far this year.
     
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  10. phatcat

    phatcat Well-Known Member
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    Consider this - how many of us are there in the WORLD that care enough about NU football to get this jacked up about it? 5000? Can you imagine if he was the coach at any other competitive P5 school? and what does constructive look like? 'Lord Fitz, pray, please consider making some minor adjustments to your strategy when we have the ball, so that we are not the absolute worst offense in FBS'?
     
  11. DaCat

    DaCat Well-Known Member
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    Agreed.

    What about points scored? I believe we are dead last in the FBS.
     
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  12. SmellyCat

    SmellyCat Well-Known Member
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    Please don't mistake that understanding what Fitz's overall coaching strategy is equates to liking its execution in 2019.

    I love that joke, and I've thought of it often during the last six weeks.
     
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  13. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    I happen to agree with their approach and believe what we are seeing is about as good as it’s going to get right now given the deficiencies and inexperience on the OL and QB. I understand others see it differently and my point to them is their anger and frustration at McCall as the source of the problem is misplaced. They should be blaming Fitz, because everything we see right now with this offense is directly attributable to Fitz’s philosophy and decision making. McCall is following Fitz’s lead.
     
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  14. PlayStrongPlayProud

    PlayStrongPlayProud Well-Known Member
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    Corbi, you didn't respond to my previous post. How do you define success for McCall? How can you tell whether he is a good OC or a bad OC? What metrics should he be judged on? How do you tell if he is improving, getting worse or has flatlined?

    Others are pointing to points per game, yards per game, etc. What metrics do you look at?
     
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  15. wildcatpn

    wildcatpn Well-Known Member
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    People would probably take you more seriously if you would add an occassional "in my opinion" to your posts. You have no idea what decision making and philosophy McCall and Fitz talk about and you also have no idea the extent to which McCall is following Fitz's lead. You make is sound like McCall is just a puppet and Fitz controls his every movement and thought. Simply not true.
     
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  16. Southport Cat

    Southport Cat Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry, but wouldn't paring a dominant defense with a dominant offense be the best path to winning as many games as possible? The idea that "just barely good enough" is a better target than "best in the country" makes zero sense to me.
     
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  17. hoosboot

    hoosboot Well-Known Member
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    Which is a better win...the one where you win 9-7 or the one where you win 72-70?
     
  18. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    How do you define “dominant offense”? If by that you mean a high scoring, pass dominant offense that tops the offensive statistical charts then I would say that yes that type of offense is largely incompatible with a dominant defense which also tops the statistical charts. The two have rarely been paired together and the reason is that they don’t complement each other.
     
    58 corbi296, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  19. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    In McCall’s case I would argue that wins and QB development are the two best ways to judge the job he is doing given the constraints Fitz has imposed. Maybe also time of possession and turnovers would be other stats to measure efficiency and execution.
     
    59 corbi296, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  20. FanatiCat

    FanatiCat Well-Known Member
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    Outside of the UNLV game, against P5 competition this year our offense has directly given up 50% of the total points that it has scored (21 vs 42). That has to be some kind of record!
     
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  21. AtlantaCat

    AtlantaCat Well-Known Member
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    In the word of gcg, yes.
     
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  22. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, our offense has sucked this year. No disagreement from me on that point.
     
  23. PlayStrongPlayProud

    PlayStrongPlayProud Well-Known Member
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    Wins is how you would judge Fitz, not McCall.

    Ignoring Thorson's freshman year (which was bad), his interception total increased every year thereafter. His TD totals were stagnant (declining from his peak sophomore year), his yards passed were stagnant, his completion percentage ticked up slightly, his QB rating was stagnant. Is McCall really a QB whisperer? Did Clayton get drafted? Yes, because he is 6ft 4 with a strong arm.
     
  24. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    The one thing that no one can objectively deny McCall is his ability to develop QBs. Dating back to his days at Bowling Green he has taken unheralded recruits and made them into NFL draft picks. That’s fact.
     
  25. NUCat320

    NUCat320 Well-Known Member
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    No patience!
     
  26. DaCat

    DaCat Well-Known Member
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    The winning score is not the issue, it is the effectiveness of the offense to be able to put up points so that we have a chance of winning. As we have seen in recent years, Fitz has done a remarkable job winning the close games. But the offense is built in such a way that the margin of error is very narrow. Witness the Rutgers and Neb games from last year. Those are two bad teams we should've beaten comfortably with a decent offense. And look at the stumbles against Akron and ISU. I don't care if we win a game 9-7. But case in point, we were in the game against Stanford this year down only 10-7 late in the fourth quarter, and ended up losing 17-7 by going backwards and giving up a strip-sack TD. A decent offense would've helped keep the defense off the field and put up more points against a below-average Stanford team.
     
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  27. Titanium999

    Titanium999 Well-Known Member
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    We almost won the big ten last year!
     
  28. NUCat320

    NUCat320 Well-Known Member
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    I wonder where Wisconsin, a flash-free ball control offense for as long as there’s been football, ranks in yards per play on average. I wonder if NU has been higher.

    Wisconsin is the model that Fitz wants to follow. They’re always better at offense.

    2018: 6.4 to 4.7
    2017: 6.1 to 5.3
    2016: 5.5 to 5.3
    2015: 5.3 to 4.5
    2014: 6.8 to 4.5
    2013: 6.9 to 5.4
    2012: 5.9 to 5.3
    2011: 7.0 to 5.6

    (NU last outgained Wisconsin on a per play basis in 2006.)

    It’s weird that Wisconsin — with a ball control offense and universally terrible quarterback play — is always better at moving the ball. The philosophies are the same — grind em down, play mistake free, score one more than the other guy.

    I don’t think ‘philosophy’ is why NU’s offense has been awful since forever.

    (For what it’s worth, yards per play is a fascinating metric. In 2006, Illinois led with 5.2. Last year, that would have been 12th in the conference.)

    source:
    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfbconferences/big-ten/2018-team-offense.html
     
  29. curdog

    curdog Well-Known Member
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    Gif bro is back. So if we win every game 2-0, no need to make any changes? Got it.
     
  30. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    Was that a long winded way of saying that Wisconsin is a better football program than NU? If so don’t bother because that’s obvious. They are the model but we are not yet close to matching their consistency and upside. The main difference between their program and ours is their dominance on the OL.
     
  31. NUCat320

    NUCat320 Well-Known Member
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    They have an offense. That’s why they’re better.
    And they do it in a bruising , punishing way, with a focus on ball control.

    It’s not the philosophy that holds NU back, which is what you’re arguing. It’s the inability to effectively scheme and coach offense that holds NU back.

    NU is supposed to be close with Wisconsin. They’re a consistent top 10-20 program. I kind of thought NU was close to that. 20-30 anyway, a notch below but competitive. Are you saying Wisconsin is leagues ahead on NU, not a peer, and we shouldn’t bother comparing NU to Wisconsin?
     
  32. DaCat

    DaCat Well-Known Member
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    On the pre-game show just now, Urban Meyer and Glen Mason were brutally honest about the NU offense, basically saying how terrible it is. Meyer said he couldn't understand how bad it is this year compared to last year. Didn't give us a chance.
     
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  33. Fitzphile

    Fitzphile Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I watched that. Credit to Urban for being honest. Didn't sugar coat the game to try to pump viewership.
     
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  34. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, they have an offense that is successful because their OL is consistently among the best in the country. Our OL has consistently been amongst the worst in the country. That needs to change for NU’s offense to perform materially better.
     
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  35. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    What’s your point? You get no argument from me that our offense stinks right now.
     
  36. curdog

    curdog Well-Known Member
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    Man you are determined to die on this hill
     
  37. IGNORE

    IGNORE Well-Known Member
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    He’s avoiding you because you ask the right question. You have provided nothing for him to attack or a way for him to dodge. So you get ignored. Consider it an honor.
     
  38. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    Die on what hill? McCall isn’t THE Problem with this offense. Fix the obvious problems first and then let’s see what the offense looks like. It won’t be what you think.
     
  39. curdog

    curdog Well-Known Member
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    Like I said. You are determined to die on this hill
     
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  40. corbi296

    corbi296 Well-Known Member
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    Ok buddy, whatever you say. Go Bernie!
     

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