I have said this repeatedly and I'll say it again. We suck because we have no QB that is ready to compete at the Big Ten level and because we have an OL, that while improving, is still one of the worst and least talented OL in P5 football. The latter has been a long term problem for the team that hopefully has been addressed with the hiring of Kurt Anderson. That former is a function of Fitz and McCall either not taking a QB or not landing their A list QB recruit in five consecutive recruiting classes since we landed Clayton Thorson. Significant injuries this year have made things even worse but the root cause of the problem for NU is QB play and OL play. Even over the last four years when we've won 36 games, a Big Ten West title and three consecutive bowl games, our margin for error was never that big. The difference between a 9-10 win season and what you are seeing this year is a couple of top players at a few key positions and a couple of injuries. That's it. Unfortunately this year everything has gone wrong. Sooner or later It happens to all but a few of the elite programs out there. This year was our turn.
Great. A win and that offensive "Performance" was not an endorsement of McCall (or Smith)
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I have said this repeatedly and I'll say it again. We suck because we have no QB that is ready to compete at the Big Ten level and because we have an OL, that while improving, is still one of the worst and least talented OL in P5 football. The latter has been a long term problem for the team that hopefully has been addressed with the hiring of Kurt Anderson. That former is a function of Fitz and McCall either not taking a QB or not landing their A list QB recruit in five consecutive recruiting classes since we landed Clayton Thorson. Significant injuries this year have made things even worse but the root cause of the problem for NU is QB play and OL play. Even over the last four years when we've won 36 games, a Big Ten West title and three consecutive bowl games, our margin for error was never that big. The difference between a 9-10 win season and what you are seeing this year is a couple of top players at a few key positions and a couple of injuries. That's it. Unfortunately this year everything has gone wrong. Sooner or later It happens to all but a few of the elite programs out there. This year was our turn.
I hate getting into these spats with you, because I think we should focus on the bigger picture items like getting you to finalize realize (even if 5 or 6 years later than everyone else) that McCall is awful and needs to be fired, but I just want to point out that you literally contradicted yourself within two sentences in your post. Too funny not to point out.
I would argue this is not true. Most teams have down years from time to time, but I don't remember Iowa or Wisconsin going winless in the conference or having the worst offense in America. I don't recall that happening to Nebraska or Michigan State and obviously not the big 3. You'll have to forgive folks who thought the program was past the days of being compared to Illinois or Rutgers or Indiana (who is actually on the rise now).
But most importantly, there isn't much reason to be optimistic for the future. There are no young stars going through growing pains this year. We don't have a QB for the foreseeable future. We lose our best defensive players after this year. None of our young guys have stepped forward to take advantage of the injuries (and please spare me Evan Hull). It reminds me very much of the last years of Carmody in basketball. It wasn't just the bad record toward the end -- it was the fact that there was very little talent on the roster going forward. That's where we now find ourselves in football and its severely disappointing.
The talent gap is most concerning. We have had success on the field and that has not translated to quality of our depth.
Is it really a talent gap or is it a development gap on D? Yesterday, we played a walk on Freshman DE that I never heard of. One of our lower rated recruits from last year started on the D line. Yet, our two highest rated WR recruits haven’t caught a pass all year. Overrated? Many power programs didn’t think so.
I have no idea, but as I posted on the Rock, there is something wrong with this program, very wrong.
Tough to have an argument about how we have performed this year...but certainly we can respond as fans differently...I start with the team has given its best effort and its been rough on them as well...my job to support them good years and bad......I always see us as operating on a thin margin ( until we develop better depth with better recruits which seems to be on the upswing) it does not take much,,,key injuries, retirements, coach changes, bad schedule, a little bad luck to knock us off the balance beam. We have had a lot of those this year. We can argue that there were controllable things like qb development but how many reps do you think Smith got over his 3 years behind Thorson, Green and Johnson ? I actually think his arm strength is impressive. Offensive scheme...How would play calling be different if we had a super back..all 4 of the super backs in recruiting starting with Cam Green in 15, Eshoo in 16 , Pugh in 17 and Kaiser in 18 were not available...you were converting two d line man (Carnifax, Goens and a qb WHitaker) just to have back ups...Our defense has been good enough if the offense had been able to perform....the first Green drive against Stanford was the blue print....Tough season, disappointed yes...frothing at the mouth,,name calling....no.........thought my son was going to hit me with the flask when I said I had enjoyed watching the Cats this year..even through the cringes. I think what we are really reacting to is that we are fearful that the concistent upswing we have been on is over.....Next year will tell.
Where is the contradiction smart guy? I don't care if you post to express disagreement with my opinion, that is what we do on this board. I do care when your posts are attempts to mute my opinion. Do you know the difference between telling someone they are wrong and telling them to shut up? I don't take kindly to the latter and will let you or anybody else who tries doing that to go pound sand or some variation thereof. Is that clear enough or am I still contradicting myself?
Yes, this season has been a severe and precipitous drop for NU but every school you listed has had their 3-4 win seasons at one point or another. Heck Nebraska has been there for an extended period and MSU is going through one right now. How much different would you feel if Kuhbander had made the kick and we were now 3-7 with a Big Ten victory under our belt? Would that be much different than the 4-6 records that Nebraska and MSU have currently? This point only reinforces my overall point that in the Big Ten and particularly at NU, the margin between a 9-10 win season and a 2-4 win season is not that significant.Often time the difference is 1-2 key players. In our case, this year the main difference is having a 4 year upper echelon starting QB vs. having to play QBs with zero playing experience at the P5 level.
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I want to support a program that takes action to rectify obvious issues. I can accept late action but can’t accept no action. Demanding improvement. This is how I support the kids. We’ll be much better next year, but we won’t be anywhere near good enough to compete for the title. Sorry, but that isn’t quite good enough when you shout from the mountaintops about winning the B1G and making the playoff. IMO, the OFF SEASON is what will tell.
Thus if you feel it's a one year is just an isolated one, who do you think plays QB next season? How about at RB? Or WR? What's your guess for next seasons record? I give them 3 , with the soft non-conference record but then there is the Big Ten portion. One ? two?
Iowa was 4-8 in 2012.
MSU was 3-9 with the only B1G win over Rutgers in 2016. Even a horrible Illinois team beat them. This was after winning the Big Ten championship and being one of the four BCS playoff teams the previous year. NU managed to put up 54 points on them that year with our horrible offense, which, by the way, is a record for an opponent in Spartan Stadium.
I hope you're right, but I feel like there is a drop off in talent these days. I don't see the next JJTBC or Thorson or even AC, not to mention who is the next Gaz or AWalk on defense? Maybe all the injuries have made it impossible to get to know our top, young talent. Let's sure hope so.
PS... fire McCall
I would sacrifice my first born son for a 4-8 season this year. I would kill a man with my bare hands for a 3-9 season this year.
I hope you're right, but I feel like there is a drop off in talent these days. I don't see the next JJTBC or Thorson or even AC, not to mention who is the next Gaz or AWalk on defense? Maybe all the injuries have made it impossible to get to know our top, young talent. Let's sure hope so.
PS... fire McCall
Strictly based on talent, both the offense and defense have very bright futures.
On offense, other than QB, we have championship caliber talent. RB Isaiah Bowser helped us win a B1G West championship last year as a true frosh, and when he is healthy, I think he is one of the top backs in the B1G. With McGowan, Hull, Anderson, and incoming frosh Cam Porter, we'll have very good talent at RB if we can stay healthy. At WR we'll have Skowronek back hopefully, along with Lees, Washington, RCB, and new talent like AR Yaseen, along with redshirts like Kirtz and Hooper. The OL will return 4 of 5 starters and will add Skoronski, Priebe, and Wrather to help upgrade the talent. I also liked the previous year's OL recruiting class (6-7 Conner Foster, 6-6 Zach Franks) so they'll be some good battles for playing time.
On defense, injuries took their toll this year, but we have outstanding talent next year. DL will return two starters, Samdup Miller and Trevor Kent, plus players who have started like Earnest Brown, Leota, Tommy, Jake Saunders, along with talented Devin O'Rourke and Jason Gold. All our starters at LB and secondary are back except the oft-injured Trae Williams.
Other than personnel, the offense has one glaring issue that needs to be corrected, but if Fitz can find the right replacement on the market, this offense can be a very good one.
We should not be aspiring to be MSU. Look at MSU since that B1G Title game appearance... 24-24 since 2015. No longer a good B1G team. Dantonio failed to adapt and he fell behind the curve.
Iowa's 4-8 season was their only below .500 finish since 2006. You could argue that season was an anomaly. Being 2-8 with one of the worst P5 offenses ever is not comparable to Iowa's 4-8 season. Iowa didn't get shutout once that year and had two B1G wins.
Who do you think we should aspire to be like, OSU? We are never going to be OSU. Our academic requirements and standards, resources, size, our location and lack of tradition make OSU an unreasonable comp. Not to say we can’t aspire to compete and beat OSU but the expectation we are going to be at their level year in and year out is completely unrealistic. Schools like Iowa, Wisconsin, MSU, and Stanford are much more realistic long term comps for our program. We are not at that level yet. This year unfortunately is a big step back in our quest to reach that level.
I find this laughable. Falling from B1G champs and BCS bowl (let alone his record from 2010-2015) to 3-9 in one year is falling behind the curve? Dantonio became obsolete in a finger-snap? More like falling off a cliff and that can't be explained by Dantonio failing to adapt. More likely it's personnel issues and youthful errors. They followed the 3-win season with 10-win and 7-win seasons the last two years.
And now MSU is flirting with under .500 again. In the last 4 seasons MSU is a .500 football team overall. 15-19 in the B1G. Is that good? College Football has changed a ton in the last 4 seasons. MSU has fallen. A stubborn coach fails to make significant changes to the offense and falls behind the curve.
How about NU constantly strives to improve. You don't need to compare to other programs. NU wanted to make a B1G Title game. They did that. Now they want to make them consistently and win one. 2-8 is a huge step backwards for a program who averaged 9 wins over the previous 4 seasons. A down year is not required and not expected by Fitz and co.
So everyone not running the RPO is suddenly ancient history? He was 10-3 two years ago.
Constant improvement. I agree that should be the goal and I think Fitz would agree as well. Obviously no one expects or wants a down year like this but sometimes they happen, even to the best of programs. Mistakes are made, unexpected problems develop, injuries happen, tough schedules occur and sometimes a confluence of all those things happen all at once like they have this year. It’s not wise to panic or overreact to these type of seasons, particularly when the trend over the previous four years had been so positive. This year is an anomaly that can and will be rectified.
Big picture, we've already surpassed MSU and Iowa. Last year Fleck was pointing at us as his model program. I just hope Fitz takes the corrective actions to put NU back on top.
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