Harbaugh Strikes Back Using Rivals

[YesterdaysCat]

Harbaugh can't comment on recruits right now and he's taking a beating publicly, so why not break the rules and comment off the record to Rivals?
https://michigan.n.rivals.com/news/maize-n-view-two-sides-to-every-story

To me, whether it was three weeks ago or last week, the kid got screwed. This fresh take courtesy of Jim Harbaugh's anonymous comments is conveniently devoid of the facts as established everywhere else.

I also love how the author (and Harbaugh?) brings up Fitzgerald and accuses us of running off recruits, too. It's funny because I don't recall Fitzgerald accepting commitments from kids and then continuing to recruit for their spots and then dumping them once somebody better comes along.

 

[NJCat83588]

Harbaugh can't comment on recruits right now and he's taking a beating publicly, so why not break the rules and comment off the record to Rivals?
https://michigan.n.rivals.com/news/maize-n-view-two-sides-to-every-story

To me, whether it was three weeks ago or last week, the kid got screwed. This fresh take courtesy of Jim Harbaugh's anonymous comments is conveniently devoid of the facts as established everywhere else.

I also love how the author (and Harbaugh?) brings up Fitzgerald and accuses us of running off recruits, too. It's funny because I don't recall Fitzgerald accepting commitments from kids and then continuing to recruit for their spots and then dumping them once somebody better comes along.

This is the part about NU, and it complete hypothetical bullshit:

"Northwestern, which Greenstein uses in his story to show how a program does it the right way, has offered 115 recruits in 2016. Is Pat Fitzgerald not also playing the game? What happens if 30 of them wanted to commit but Northwestern doesn’t have a spot for him? Doesn’t Fitzgerald essentially pull that kid’s scholarship offer?

In fact, he has to or he will be forced to oversign."

Once a player who is given an offer to NU commits, he is in. I cannot think of a single example of a kid who committed who had his offer revoked. I am sure there are kids with offers who find out that they don't have a place due to other commitments, at which point they need to look elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that. The writer is putting up a speculative strawman which has zero evidence to support it. Just a crap article if you ask me.

 

[clarificationcat]

First all of all, there really aren't two sides to every story. A lot of times one party is just trying to cover up something bad that they did. Gee, I wonder what Ray Rice's side of the story was...

Second, in his example with Fitzgerald, he leaves out the acceptance part of the process, which is kind of critical to the comparison. We extend lots of offers but once the player accepts they are engaged in Fitzspeak and Fitz does not break the engagement.

Third, if the kid refused to go to camp, that would have been the time to inform him that his offer was being pulled. I assume that Harbaugh didn't do that because he wanted to keep him committed unless someone better came along. Even if he told him in November instead of January, that's still shitty no matter how you spin the story. I think that Carmody pulled an offer from a kid that accepted as a sophomore but I believe he pulled it in his junior year, which still gave him plenty of time to go through the recruiting process.

I hate writers that pretend not to be taking a side and then spend the whole article spinning the story. It was poorly written and argued and he managed to slam a high school kid to boot. Nicely done.

 

[d'son d]

The difference is where the commitment was placed. If Fitz only offered 30 people that would be insane. However, when he offers I am sure the offer is steeped in the number of offers out there and the number of positions available. So once person commits to NU the scholie is not pulled if someone better comes along. The recruit, on the other hand, can go elsewhere in spite of the offer from NU, and that happens all the time. It is when the commitment is accepted by the school (an offer was made by the school and committed to by the student) that the issue comes to light. So after being committed for 2 years he is kicked out with 2 weeks to go. If there were specific criteria required to keep the offer, and he didn't meet those criteria, it doesn't surprise me that the offer was pulled. That is just UM's system, as well as Hashbrown's way of doing business. If going to a camp was required and he refused, so be the result. But if not required then I have a real question as to the level of integrity and honesty of the coach (Oh, wait, he already proved that characteristic at Stanford). If specific physical criteria were required or achievements in the weight room were part of the deal, and he didn't attain them, again I have no problem with the scholie being lost because the criteria for the scholie were not met. But if none of that existed Swenson's best response would be to jump on NU's bandwagon, work his tail off, and beat up on UM when we play them. I'm sure this is not the last of this story.

 

[loyolacat]

As Seinfeld said " its not taking the reservation that is difficult it is KEEPING the reservation "

 

[charcat]

This writer is busy muddying the water to defend the indefensible. There is a difference between an offer and an accepted offer. A world of difference. It is like watching a Clinton spinmeister in action.

 

[hdhntr1]

This is the part about NU, and it complete hypothetical bullshit:

"Northwestern, which Greenstein uses in his story to show how a program does it the right way, has offered 115 recruits in 2016. Is Pat Fitzgerald not also playing the game? What happens if 30 of them wanted to commit but Northwestern doesn’t have a spot for him? Doesn’t Fitzgerald essentially pull that kid’s scholarship offer?

In fact, he has to or he will be forced to oversign."

Once a player who is given an offer to NU commits, he is in. I cannot think of a single example of a kid who committed who had his offer revoked. I am sure there are kids with offers who find out that they don't have a place due to other commitments, at which point they need to look elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that. The writer is putting up a speculative strawman which has zero evidence to support it. Just a crap article if you ask me.

Cotton had an offer pulled. But it was because he did not meet his academic requirements that were clearly spelled out and would, as a result, have not made it through admissions.

 

[DaCat]

All this smoke aside, what about the basic human decency to tell Erik Swenson directly rather than making someone else on his staff do it? What about returning Erik's phone call or talking to him directly? Man up, Scumbaugh.

 

[hdhntr1]

The difference is where the commitment was placed. If Fitz only offered 30 people that would be insane. However, when he offers I am sure the offer is steeped in the number of offers out there and the number of positions available. So once person commits to NU the scholie is not pulled if someone better comes along. The recruit, on the other hand, can go elsewhere in spite of the offer from NU, and that happens all the time. It is when the commitment is accepted by the school (an offer was made by the school and committed to by the student) that the issue comes to light. So after being committed for 2 years he is kicked out with 2 weeks to go. If there were specific criteria required to keep the offer, and he didn't meet those criteria, it doesn't surprise me that the offer was pulled. That is just UM's system, as well as Hashbrown's way of doing business. If going to a camp was required and he refused, so be the result. But if not required then I have a real question as to the level of integrity and honesty of the coach (Oh, wait, he already proved that characteristic at Stanford). If specific physical criteria were required or achievements in the weight room were part of the deal, and he didn't attain them, again I have no problem with the scholie being lost because the criteria for the scholie were not met. But if none of that existed Swenson's best response would be to jump on NU's bandwagon, work his tail off, and beat up on UM when we play them. I'm sure this is not the last of this story.

While I do not have a problem with academic criteria (could not get them through admissions), I do with weight room or other performance criteria. Even if going to camp had been a requirement, then why was the offer not pulled at that point instead of waiting till two weeks before signing day. That gives the indication that it was never a criteria and is only being used as an excuse for the inexcusable.

What will be interesting to see going forward is just how often this happens. If it happens much more and University of Michigan is forced to deal with the tarnished image on a regular basis, Hairball will wear out his welcome. My guess is that will take about 5 years.

 

[hdhntr1]

Harbaugh can't comment on recruits right now and he's taking a beating publicly, so why not break the rules and comment off the record to Rivals?
https://michigan.n.rivals.com/news/maize-n-view-two-sides-to-every-story

To me, whether it was three weeks ago or last week, the kid got screwed. This fresh take courtesy of Jim Harbaugh's anonymous comments is conveniently devoid of the facts as established everywhere else.

I also love how the author (and Harbaugh?) brings up Fitzgerald and accuses us of running off recruits, too. It's funny because I don't recall Fitzgerald accepting commitments from kids and then continuing to recruit for their spots and then dumping them once somebody better comes along.

While all schools make more offers than they can accept, when a position player commits, the others at that position are told that their offers are no longer valid as they had (before) they commit. In this case, it is long after kids have accepted. Huge difference.

Is Harbaugh going to take Michigan down to the slime level of OSU or below?

 

[purple11]

As Seinfeld said " its not taking the reservation that is difficult it is KEEPING the reservation "

Ha ha "Anyone can take reservations.....the holding, that's really the most important part of the reservation"
Love that Seinfeld episode. I literally had the same thing happen to me last time I rented a car. Frustrating.

Back to Erik, the kid got screwed. What happened to good old fashion communication and honesty. Harbaugh and staff needed to sit down and honestly talk to the all current commits from the minute they took their coaching jobs. Not string the kid along. Just be honest. Simple.

Go Cats !!

 

[corbi296]

Harbaugh can't comment on recruits right now and he's taking a beating publicly, so why not break the rules and comment off the record to Rivals?
https://michigan.n.rivals.com/news/maize-n-view-two-sides-to-every-story

To me, whether it was three weeks ago or last week, the kid got screwed. This fresh take courtesy of Jim Harbaugh's anonymous comments is conveniently devoid of the facts as established everywhere else.

I also love how the author (and Harbaugh?) brings up Fitzgerald and accuses us of running off recruits, too. It's funny because I don't recall Fitzgerald accepting commitments from kids and then continuing to recruit for their spots and then dumping them once somebody better comes along.

This article is a complete fantasy perpetuated to make the Michigan fans feel better about this. If Harbaugh continues to use the media to deflect blame back on the kid, he runs the risk of the family going public and disclosing all the details. They have been reserved up until now but if I were them I would do an interview with ESPN or the Tribune after signing day. The truth will not look pretty for Harbaugh and Michigan.

 

[shakes3858]

This article is a complete fantasy perpetuated to make the Michigan fans feel better about this. If Harbaugh continues to use the media to deflect blame back on the kid, he runs the risk of the family going public and disclosing all the details. They have been reserved up until now but if I were them I would do an interview with ESPN or the Tribune after signing day. The truth will not look pretty for Harbaugh and Michigan.

I mean that's what fans do. Indiana fans make excuses for Crean-ing players. Collins has had LOTS of transfer, but we make excuses for him in the same light. Notre Dame fans make excuses their lack of academic standards for their football team. If we let a few guys in that really "borderline," we'd all say that Fitz knows what he's doing and understands the academics at Northwestern. The SEC excuses all kinds of behaviors. The SWC excused all sorts of recruiting violations as what it took to compete (you know SMU wasn't the only one doing it). Hell even Penn State fans excused just about everyone but Sandusky.

We're all fans. We all back "our guys" and think that our University is beyond any sort of anything unethical. The things that make us uneasy, uncomfortable... are just what everyone else is doing... oh and they're all doing it much worse than we are.

 

[Hungry Jack]

What a puff piece apologist load of dung.

Oversigning has very little relevance here. The issue here is the timing of the decision. Let's review the timeline:

• 2013 Swenson committed to Michigan as a sophomore in 2013. Brady Hoke was Michigan’s head coach at the time
• Dec 2 2014: Hoke fired after the 2014 season
• Dec 29 2014: Harbaugh hired;Swenson remains committed and secures offer letter signed by Harbaugh.
• Oct 23 2015: Swenson's senior season ends at Downers Grove (missed playoffs)
• Nov. 2015: UM coaches encourage Swenson to take other school visits
• Dec 2015: Michigan offensive coordinator/offensive line coach Tim Drevno tells Swenson to "get ready to play for Michigan."
  
• Jan 19 2016: Swenson decommits after being told his scholarship was no longer available

That's pretty much the timeline that matters.

Now consider two additional stories that we will accept as fact:

• The Meat Chicken apologist story notes that UM coaches were concerned and disappointed that Swenson played very passively his senior year, assumedly to avoid injury.
• Other stories note that Swenson was told before his senior season that he would continue to be evaluated and that his schollie was not assured.

So, it all begs the question of why UM did not pull the schollie after Swenson's season ended in October 2015. There was further evaluation to be done. Assuming UM staff were too busy prepping for games and bowls (we should note that they were making recruiting visits), then perhaps they needed a bit more time to review Swenson's senior tape. This is being very generous.

It is really, really hard to find a justification for UM taking so long to pull the run from under Swenson. The most plausible one I can find is that they found other tackles of interest who projected to be better players, and were hedging the slot with Swenson until they were quite certain they could secure a more coveted player.

 

[Cat In The Cradle]

The things that make us uneasy, uncomfortable... are just what everyone else is doing... oh and they're all doing it much worse than we are.

Well that's because they are.

 

[pawildcat]

This is the part about NU, and it complete hypothetical bullshit:

"Northwestern, which Greenstein uses in his story to show how a program does it the right way, has offered 115 recruits in 2016. Is Pat Fitzgerald not also playing the game? What happens if 30 of them wanted to commit but Northwestern doesn’t have a spot for him? Doesn’t Fitzgerald essentially pull that kid’s scholarship offer?

In fact, he has to or he will be forced to oversign."

Once a player who is given an offer to NU commits, he is in. I cannot think of a single example of a kid who committed who had his offer revoked. I am sure there are kids with offers who find out that they don't have a place due to other commitments, at which point they need to look elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that. The writer is putting up a speculative strawman which has zero evidence to support it. Just a crap article if you ask me.

No, Fitz doesn't have to essentially pull the kid's scholarship. You make the offers and when you have enough commits to reach your scholarship limit you stop. That is how you avoid oversigning. You can't pull a scholarship when there was no commitment to one. Not a difficult concept to grasp, which is why I agree with you that the above article is essentially crap.

 

[SmellyCat]

We're all fans. We all back "our guys" and think that our University is beyond any sort of anything unethical.

The Dennis Lundy debacle was a real test for me. Not about him personally. I can let that go. It's just, at the time, did I want to continue to root for a team/school that committed such a crime? I was able to justify it because it was isolated to just a few guys, we took care of it, never again, etc. But still, I had the nagging thoughts - am I just justifying it because I don't want to give up on the team/school I love? If this happened at Wisconsin and some fan - let's call him "StinkyBadger" - used the same justification, would I call him out? I really don't know, and that's what was unsettling for me.

 

[hdhntr1]

What a puff piece apologist load of dung.

Oversigning has very little relevance here. The issue here is the timing of the decision. Let's review the timeline:

• 2013 Swenson committed to Michigan as a sophomore in 2013. Brady Hoke was Michigan’s head coach at the time
• Dec 2 2014: Hoke fired after the 2014 season
• Dec 29 2014: Harbaugh hired;Swenson remains committed and secures offer letter signed by Harbaugh.
• Oct 23 2015: Swenson's senior season ends at Downers Grove (missed playoffs)
• Nov. 2015: UM coaches encourage Swenson to take other school visits
• Dec 2015: Michigan offensive coordinator/offensive line coach Tim Drevno tells Swenson to "get ready to play for Michigan."
  
• Jan 19 2016: Swenson decommits after being told his scholarship was no longer available

That's pretty much the timeline that matters.

Now consider two additional stories that we will accept as fact:

• The Meat Chicken apologist story notes that UM coaches were concerned and disappointed that Swenson played very passively his senior year, assumedly to avoid injury.
• Other stories note that Swenson was told before his senior season that he would continue to be evaluated and that his schollie was not assured.

So, it all begs the question of why UM did not pull the schollie after Swenson's season ended in October 2015. There was further evaluation to be done. Assuming UM staff were too busy prepping for games and bowls (we should note that they were making recruiting visits), then perhaps they needed a bit more time to review Swenson's senior tape. This is being very generous.

It is really, really hard to find a justification for UM taking so long to pull the run from under Swenson. The most plausible one I can find is that they found other tackles of interest who projected to be better players, and were hedging the slot with Swenson until they were quite certain they could secure a more coveted player.

Questions come up as to a couple things and the most generous interpretation for MICH. Was he told in Nov to take other visits? Was he told before his senior season that he was going to continue to be evaluated and that his offer of scholarship was not secure and that he would continue to be evaluated? Those two things come from MICH only and have not been confirmed by anything Swenson said. Were the true, the fact that Swenson did not take any other visits or call other schools(indicting a lack of security of the offer) could indicate that he was never told that. Potentially the same with any conditional nature of the offer indicating the were still evaluating him. His actions or lack of them would indicate they never told him either. Add to that that in DEC he was told to get ready to play for MICH indicating no issue.

As far as why it took so long for MICH, it may be that they were getting a hearing from some guys based on success on the field that they had not anticipated.

 

[hdhntr1]

No, Fitz doesn't have to essentially pull the kid's scholarship. You make the offers and when you have enough commits to reach your scholarship limit you stop. That is how you avoid oversigning. You can't pull a scholarship when there was no commitment to one. Not a difficult concept to grasp, which is why I agree with you that the above article is essentially crap.

Basically they have a certain number of slots for a particular position. First ones to verbal gets the slots and once full (not the whole class but the particular position), all other offers for those positions are pulled or reevaluated. If something happens to one of the positions, may be reopened but otherwise not. But it is by position rather than just buy the total number of scholarships for the class.

For example 1QB, 2 LB, 3 DB, 4 WR, 4 OL etc. Once you hit those numbers, other outstanding offers for guys for those positions are put on hold.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Questions come up as to a couple things and the most generous interpretation for MICH. Was he told in Nov to take other visits? Was he told before his senior season that he was going to continue to be evaluated and that his offer of scholarship was not secure and that he would continue to be evaluated? Those two things come from MICH only and have not been confirmed by anything Swenson said. Were the true, the fact that Swenson did not take any other visits or call other schools(indicting a lack of security of the offer) could indicate that he was never told that. Potentially the same with any conditional nature of the offer indicating the were still evaluating him. His actions or lack of them would indicate they never told him either. Add to that that in DEC he was told to get ready to play for MICH indicating no issue.

As far as why it took so long for MICH, it may be that they were getting a hearing from some guys based on success on the field that they had not anticipated.

Exactly. This gives the benefit of some doubt to UM (about "warning" Swenson that his schollie was not secured). But accepting this at face value, UM still looks very bad considering:
1) Swenson's "evaluation period" would have ended late October. How much additional time did they did to determine if he was UM caliber?
2) The assistant coach told him in December to get ready to play for UM, implying that the evaluation was complete and his schollie was secured.

I just see no defending any of this. "Oversigning, and everyone does it" is irrelevant because it's not about the practice (which I am quite sure does not occur at NU-- when have we "traded up" by pulling a schollie?). UM kept its word, but waited far too long to deliver it, putting the kid in potentially a very compromising position. I don't see how this is justified.

 

[hoosboot]

Exactly. This gives the benefit of some doubt to UM (about "warning" Swenson that his schollie was not secured). But accepting this at face value, UM still looks very bad considering:
1) Swenson's "evaluation period" would have ended late October. How much additional time did they did to determine if he was UM caliber?
2) The assistant coach told him in December to get ready to play for UM, implying that the evaluation was complete and his schollie was secured.

I just see no defending any of this. "Oversigning, and everyone does it" is irrelevant because it's not about the practice (which I am quite sure does not occur at NU-- when have we "traded up" by pulling a schollie?). UM kept its word, but waited far too long to deliver it, putting the kid in potentially a very compromising position. I don't see how this is justified.

Some ugly things happen in recruiting. It's a cutthroat business and real people's dreams (let alone feelings) get trampled often in the process. It happens. Sometimes a commit doesn't grow as expected. Sometimes grades don't come through. Sometimes a higher ranked players wants to commit. And a coach has to decide how he wants to navigate these dirty waters. Pretty much every step along the way in this instance, Harbaugh took the low and shitty route in relation to Swenson...right down to not having the stones to call the kid and tell him the change of plans himself. It's a surprise it generally only takes 3 years before everyone gets hip to his fakery and he needs to move on.

 

[beetlemania74]

This article is a complete fantasy perpetuated to make the Michigan fans feel better about this. If Harbaugh continues to use the media to deflect blame back on the kid, he runs the risk of the family going public and disclosing all the details. They have been reserved up until now but if I were them I would do an interview with ESPN or the Tribune after signing day. The truth will not look pretty for Harbaugh and Michigan.

Call me cynical, but I don't think ESPN would want any part of that. Maybe the Tribune, but not ESPN. Harbaugh brings them eyeballs and clicks, and the goofy and intense winner persona is what they want. Have you seen anything yet on ESPN or its website about this Swenson story (or about the other late de-commits from Michigan)? Nope, because they're focused on writing up just how successful Michigan's recruiting class is going to be, while not focusing on how it got there. Like making sausage...don't want to know the details on how it's done. But all that said, this will catch up to Harbaugh at some point.

 

[NWburbs Cats fan]

They talked about it, briefly, on College Football Live the other day. Surprised they did that much, honestly

 

[corbi296]

Call me cynical, but I don't think ESPN would want any part of that. Maybe the Tribune, but not ESPN. Harbaugh brings them eyeballs and clicks, and the goofy and intense winner persona is what they want. Have you seen anything yet on ESPN or its website about this Swenson story (or about the other late de-commits from Michigan)? Nope, because they're focused on writing up just how successful Michigan's recruiting class is going to be, while not focusing on how it got there. Like making sausage...don't want to know the details on how it's done. But all that said, this will catch up to Harbaugh at some point.

They have spoken about it and it even came across on their ticker. Harbaugh picked the wrong kid to screw over. The circumstances are ripe for this to be the catalyst for a broader conversation on this issue.

 

[pawildcat]

Basically they have a certain number of slots for a particular position. First ones to verbal gets the slots and once full (not the whole class but the particular position), all other offers for those positions are pulled or reevaluated. If something happens to one of the positions, may be reopened but otherwise not. But it is by position rather than just buy the total number of scholarships for the class.

For example 1QB, 2 LB, 3 DB, 4 WR, 4 OL etc. Once you hit those numbers, other outstanding offers for guys for those positions are put on hold.

OK, so you're doing it by position. You're still not giving scholarships you don't have.

 

[shakes3858]

The Dennis Lundy debacle was a real test for me. Not about him personally. I can let that go. It's just, at the time, did I want to continue to root for a team/school that committed such a crime? I was able to justify it because it was isolated to just a few guys, we took care of it, never again, etc. But still, I had the nagging thoughts - am I just justifying it because I don't want to give up on the team/school I love? If this happened at Wisconsin and some fan - let's call him "StinkyBadger" - used the same justification, would I call him out? I really don't know, and that's what was unsettling for me.

I hear you... But every team has a Dennis Lundy. Maybe not that crime, but some crime, some scandal, some terrible thing. Whats your favorite baseball team? I could list guys that did roids. NFL team? I could list wife beaters, drug addicts, criminals...

I was listening to the radio awhile back and a caller called in and said he was done with the NFL due to deflategate. The radio guy asked him if he was more of a baseball guy. He said no, they all do roids. Then he asked about basketball and the man was done after the Tim Donaghy. Then came the NHL and it was the strike that did him in. Then he was asked about college sports and then something about players not getting into the school on their own merit. So the radio guy finally said, "I know you like sports, you're listening to sports radio. what do you actually watch and pay attention to?!?!"

Bottom line, there's bath water with every program and every person in the world... But the baby is pretty awesome. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

They have spoken about it and it even came across on their ticker. Harbaugh picked the wrong kid to screw over. The circumstances are ripe for this to be the catalyst for a broader conversation on this issue.

I don't know; Harbaugh's misinformation campaign has been effective for some media and some fans. If the kid winds up at UCLA or another big-name program, people will say "all's well that ends well." I'm not sure what they will say if he ends up with us.

 

[EvanstonCat]

What a puff piece apologist load of dung.

Oversigning has very little relevance here. The issue here is the timing of the decision. Let's review the timeline:

• 2013 Swenson committed to Michigan as a sophomore in 2013. Brady Hoke was Michigan’s head coach at the time
• Dec 2 2014: Hoke fired after the 2014 season
• Dec 29 2014: Harbaugh hired;Swenson remains committed and secures offer letter signed by Harbaugh.
• Oct 23 2015: Swenson's senior season ends at Downers Grove (missed playoffs)
• Nov. 2015: UM coaches encourage Swenson to take other school visits
• Dec 2015: Michigan offensive coordinator/offensive line coach Tim Drevno tells Swenson to "get ready to play for Michigan."
  
• Jan 19 2016: Swenson decommits after being told his scholarship was no longer available

That's pretty much the timeline that matters.

Now consider two additional stories that we will accept as fact:

• The Meat Chicken apologist story notes that UM coaches were concerned and disappointed that Swenson played very passively his senior year, assumedly to avoid injury.
• Other stories note that Swenson was told before his senior season that he would continue to be evaluated and that his schollie was not assured.

So, it all begs the question of why UM did not pull the schollie after Swenson's season ended in October 2015. There was further evaluation to be done. Assuming UM staff were too busy prepping for games and bowls (we should note that they were making recruiting visits), then perhaps they needed a bit more time to review Swenson's senior tape. This is being very generous.

It is really, really hard to find a justification for UM taking so long to pull the run from under Swenson. The most plausible one I can find is that they found other tackles of interest who projected to be better players, and were hedging the slot with Swenson until they were quite certain they could secure a more coveted player.

You forgot one other important date on that time line:

Jan 21 2016: Michigan boosted its freshman class to 22 with the late Thursday night addition of three-star offensive tackle Stephen Spanellis, who had been committed to Virginia.

 

[EvanstonCat]

This is the part about NU, and it complete hypothetical bullshit:

"Northwestern, which Greenstein uses in his story to show how a program does it the right way, has offered 115 recruits in 2016. Is Pat Fitzgerald not also playing the game? What happens if 30 of them wanted to commit but Northwestern doesn’t have a spot for him? Doesn’t Fitzgerald essentially pull that kid’s scholarship offer?

In fact, he has to or he will be forced to oversign."

Once a player who is given an offer to NU commits, he is in. I cannot think of a single example of a kid who committed who had his offer revoked. I am sure there are kids with offers who find out that they don't have a place due to other commitments, at which point they need to look elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that. The writer is putting up a speculative strawman which has zero evidence to support it. Just a crap article if you ask me.

What a total pile of stinking shit.

Sure we give out 115 offers. But, when we get a commitment, we stick with it. We will tell uncommitted prospects that there is no longer any room for them. We won't go after new recruits to replace commitments. So, we would never oversign, and we will never back out of a commitment. What we should do and have NEVER had any problem with is go hard at other school's commits, ESPECIALLY MICHIGAN'S since it is obvious that if you are committed to Michigan, it doesn't mean jackshit.

 

[Alaskawildkat]

They have spoken about it and it even came across on their ticker. Harbaugh picked the wrong kid to screw over. The circumstances are ripe for this to be the catalyst for a broader conversation on this issue.

This

 

[elgatoloco]

What a total pile of stinking shit.

Sure we give out 115 offers. But, when we get a commitment, we stick with it. We will tell uncommitted prospects that there is no longer any room for them. We won't go after new recruits to replace commitments. So, we would never oversign, and we will never back out of a commitment. What we should do and have NEVER had any problem with is go hard at other school's commits, ESPECIALLY MICHIGAN'S since it is obvious that if you are committed to Michigan, it doesn't mean jackshit.

And why on earth would Swenson not go all out his senior year? It isn't as if Harbaugh would pull his offer if he got hurt. ...

Honestly, the pattern of behavior and timeline is all very obvious. Harbaugh will have several recruits in every class who are on his personal bubble and if he can upgrade they're gone.

 

[NJCat83588]

And why on earth would Swenson not go all out his senior year? It isn't as if Harbaugh would pull his offer if he got hurt. ....

Exactly. You hit the nail right on the head. Just ask Matthew Falcon.

 

[beetlemania74]

They have spoken about it and it even came across on their ticker. Harbaugh picked the wrong kid to screw over. The circumstances are ripe for this to be the catalyst for a broader conversation on this issue.

I hope you're right. I'm certainly not defending ESPN's (and possibly the conference's) preference to sweep this under the rug, but if they do actually call Harbaugh out on it, then that's great. But remember, we're in an age where the former OSU president said in a press conference that he hoped the football coach didn't fire him, and where college football coaches are often the highest paid governmental employees in their states. Money talks, and if Harbaugh thinks this kind of thing gives Michigan the best chance to win games (or at least to not get blown out by OSU), then hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[villox]

I hear you... But every team has a Dennis Lundy. Maybe not that crime, but some crime, some scandal, some terrible thing. Whats your favorite baseball team? I could list guys that did roids. NFL team? I could list wife beaters, drug addicts, criminals...

I was listening to the radio awhile back and a caller called in and said he was done with the NFL due to deflategate. The radio guy asked him if he was more of a baseball guy. He said no, they all do roids. Then he asked about basketball and the man was done after the Tim Donaghy. Then came the NHL and it was the strike that did him in. Then he was asked about college sports and then something about players not getting into the school on their own merit. So the radio guy finally said, "I know you like sports, you're listening to sports radio. what do you actually watch and pay attention to?!?!"

Bottom line, there's bath water with every program and every person in the world... But the baby is pretty awesome. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

This is way too easy an out. Sure, "every program has problems" but it matters at what level they are and how the programs respond. Big difference between fans justifying individual player behavior and head coach behavior.

 

[hdhntr1]

The Dennis Lundy debacle was a real test for me. Not about him personally. I can let that go. It's just, at the time, did I want to continue to root for a team/school that committed such a crime? I was able to justify it because it was isolated to just a few guys, we took care of it, never again, etc. But still, I had the nagging thoughts - am I just justifying it because I don't want to give up on the team/school I love? If this happened at Wisconsin and some fan - let's call him "StinkyBadger" - used the same justification, would I call him out? I really don't know, and that's what was unsettling for me.

For the most part it is the individuals involved. But then the question is how did it happen and how was it missed? Should the school be held responsible? What I find interesting is this was a real Black Eye for NU but the leader of the whole thing was a ND (I think graduate) kicker and not a word was brought up against them

 

[hdhntr1]

Exactly. This gives the benefit of some doubt to UM (about "warning" Swenson that his schollie was not secured). But accepting this at face value, UM still looks very bad considering:
1) Swenson's "evaluation period" would have ended late October. How much additional time did they did to determine if he was UM caliber?
2) The assistant coach told him in December to get ready to play for UM, implying that the evaluation was complete and his schollie was secured.

I just see no defending any of this. "Oversigning, and everyone does it" is irrelevant because it's not about the practice (which I am quite sure does not occur at NU-- when have we "traded up" by pulling a schollie?). UM kept its word, but waited far too long to deliver it, putting the kid in potentially a very compromising position. I don't see how this is justified.

Again because there was no action on the part of Swenson that indicated any issue (contact with other schools, visits, etc) I have to question the statements of MICH that they informed him that he was still under evaluation, that he was told to take other visits, etc. Just saying that if he had been told those things by Mich Coaching staff, it is likely Swenson's actions would have been significantly different. Therefore, I question whether those things were ever said by Mich and those are the only things that MICH can hang their hat on that they were in any way vindicated in their actions.

 

[GlideCat]

Again because there was no action on the part of Swenson that indicated any issue (contact with other schools, visits, etc) I have to question the statements of MICH that they informed him that he was still under evaluation, that he was told to take other visits, etc. Just saying that if he had been told those things by Mich Coaching staff, it is likely Swenson's actions would have been significantly different. Therefore, I question whether those things were ever said by Mich and those are the only things that MICH can hang their hat on that they were in any way vindicated in their actions.

Read the quote from his high school coach. He clearly said that the first hint from Michigan came in very late December / early January timeframe.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Again because there was no action on the part of Swenson that indicated any issue (contact with other schools, visits, etc) I have to question the statements of MICH that they informed him that he was still under evaluation, that he was told to take other visits, etc. Just saying that if he had been told those things by Mich Coaching staff, it is likely Swenson's actions would have been significantly different. Therefore, I question whether those things were ever said by Mich and those are the only things that MICH can hang their hat on that they were in any way vindicated in their actions.

Sure, but you are making an assumption.

Regardless, I think we both find it hard to defend UM under any set of reasonable assumptions.