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HBOs The Scheme

BigNUFan51

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2015
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It’s a very well-done documentary on HBO about the pay 2 play culture in NCAAB. It really portrays both the NCAA and the Southern District of NY in a bad light.

One thing that caught my attention was at the end Christian Dawkins alluded that NCAAB is chump change compared to what goes on in NCAAF.

Do you think schools like OSU and Michigan actually pay players?
 
Don't have an opinion on OSU and Michigan, but when you see the dogfight in the SEC for recruits and the absolute fascination with college football, you have to believe money is changing hands. The SEC schools have gone way beyond just being competitive with each other.
 
Do you think schools like OSU and Michigan actually pay players?
I don't think the universities directly pay the players; they maintain plausible deniability, and the coaches don't want to know. Interesting article I'm reminded of (with a bit of an SEC flavor):
https://www.bannersociety.com/2014/4/10/20703758/bag-man-paying-college-football-players

I strongly suspect, but can't prove, that tOSU blows all the other Big Ten teams out of the water when it comes to this. Yes, even Michigan isn't in the same ballpark. tOSU never has bad years. Even Michigan occasionally has bad years, but tOSU does not. The two teams used to be pretty competitive, but tOSU has only lost one game to Michigan over the last 15 years; that rivalry has become pretty one-sided. tOSU always reloads with the best players in the conference.
 
Don't have an opinion on OSU and Michigan, but when you see the dogfight in the SEC for recruits and the absolute fascination with college football, you have to believe money is changing hands. The SEC schools have gone way beyond just being competitive with each other.
That's the thing; nobody in the Big Ten is competitive with tOSU anymore. Not even Michigan. So tOSU has gone beyond just being competitive in their conference.
 
In the next few years, when the Fair Pay to Play Act in California is passed, similar laws will be adopted in other states and players will be able to monetize themselves above board. The sort of misconduct related in the article will be a thing of a bygone era. At that point, “college” football will become a professional sport and I suspect UM’s boosters will be ready, willing, and able to match or outbid OSU for top caliber players and the playing field will rebalance. The question for me is, will NU play the money game?
 
That's the thing; nobody in the Big Ten is competitive with tOSU anymore. Not even Michigan. So tOSU has gone beyond just being competitive in their conference.
Yes, they have - and it's not because of "a decided schematic advantage", as Charlie Weis once boasted of. :rolleyes:
 
It’s a very well-done documentary on HBO about the pay 2 play culture in NCAAB. It really portrays both the NCAA and the Southern District of NY in a bad light.

One thing that caught my attention was at the end Christian Dawkins alluded that NCAAB is chump change compared to what goes on in NCAAF.

Do you think schools like OSU and Michigan actually pay players?
I watched it the other night. None of the recordings Dawkins had with the HCs (Miller at Arizona, LSU HC, Pitino) were entered into evidence. This was done at the prosecution’s request. My question is why did they not go after these guys?
 
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I watched it the other night. None of the recordings Dawkins had with the HCs (Miller at Arizona, LSU HC, Pitino) were entered into evidence. This was done at the prosecution’s request. My question is why did they not go after these guys?

I read somewhere that the money never actually got to these coaches. The middle men said this is a stupid scheme and we’ll just keep the money for ourselves.
 
I read somewhere that the money never actually got to these coaches. The middle men said this is a stupid scheme and we’ll just keep the money for ourselves.
Did you listen to the recordings that were played in the documentary? Miller and LSU coach 100% were involved in bidding on players.
 
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Watched the documentary yesterday. Fascinating. It is amazing that Sean Miller at Arizona and Will Wade at LSU still have their jobs. The show implied that the money - NCAA, networks, who knows - got to the NY Fed prosecutors and they shut the investigation down.

These coaches knew that they could have others - shoe reps most commonly - buy these players for over $100k to start with recurring payments during their careers. It wasn't just these coaches but others were implicated as well. The implication was this is business as usual in the NCAA.

Poor kids are targeted. Not sure this affects NU recruiting much as most of their kids come from families where the money may be more a negative - but who knows.

The payment of players by runners/bag men is pretty much how I think big time football is handled as well. Plausible deniability for coaches with hanger-on fanatic fans, car dealerships, wanna-be agents and others passing along $500 every so often. Nothing huge but just enough for a player to know he will have a car, gas, date and pizza money.
 
On another subject, pay for play may help players in select sports but it won't stop the under the table payments and will just exacerbate competition issues. I am kind of at my limit relative to the endless focus on money, salaries for coaches, cable bills, etc, and one more twist of the knife where college players become another focus for endless money discussions will likely push me over the edge to shut down the sports gig. Just one person but bet there are a lot of fans like me.
 
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On another subject, pay for play may help players in select sports but it won't stop the under the table payments and will just exacerbate competition issues. I am kind of at my limit relative to the endless focus on money, salaries for coaches, cable bills, etc, and one more twist of the knife where college players become another focus for endless money discussions will likely push me over the edge to shut down the sports gig. Just one person but bet there are a lot of fans like me.
There are. I'm one.
 
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Yeah, PPD, I guess I'm just holding onto the premise that there's still at least the pretense of keeping this stuff at least reasonably under wraps. If and when it regresses to something resembling open bidding, I'll find it difficult to get behind that. We've got pro sports for that.
 
Pay for play will take the endless money focus to another level.

we live in a country that was built on the fascination with the pursuit of individual wealth. That premise has yielded innumerable technological and commercial advances but is also the root of money being the driving force behind nearly everything from politics to medicine to sports and beyond. Not saying anything we don’t know but we can’t expect anything to be shielded from that culture ultimately. I hope a moderation is at hand but who knows.
 
Yeah, PPD, I guess I'm just holding onto the premise that there's still at least the pretense of keeping this stuff at least reasonably under wraps. If and when it regresses to something resembling open bidding, I'll find it difficult to get behind that. We've got pro sports for that.

College football will have come full circle at this point. The Ivies paid for ringers back in the day. Read John U. Bacon’s book Fourth and Long for the details. Of course, the Ivies eventually decided that things had gotten out of hand and abandoned the mercenary approach to football. I think this is a real possibility for NU in the future—although I expect it will take some time before the new model becomes so baldly professional that NU’s leaders are disenchanted enough to walk away from television and alumni dollars that will be lost as a result.
 
College football will have come full circle at this point. The Ivies paid for ringers back in the day. Read John U. Bacon’s book Fourth and Long for the details. Of course, the Ivies eventually decided that things had gotten out of hand and abandoned the mercenary approach to football. I think this is a real possibility for NU in the future—although I expect it will take some time before the new model becomes so baldly professional that NU’s leaders are disenchanted enough to walk away from television and alumni dollars that will be lost as a result.

Didn’t UCLA b-ball under Wooden pay for play?
 
Did you listen to the recordings that were played in the documentary? Miller and LSU coach 100% were involved in bidding on players.

Oh no doubt. Just a guess that the prosecutors wanted to keep the jury’s eye on the ball. Miller and company weren’t on trial. Christian was.
 
Oh no doubt. Just a guess that the prosecutors wanted to keep the jury’s eye on the ball. Miller and company weren’t on trial. Christian was.
Yes, but the whole point of the investigation was to take down the pay for play aspect of college b-ball. The way you do that is go after the top dogs. When you go after the mafia, you do t go after the low level guys, you go after The Godfather.
 
Yes, but the whole point of the investigation was to take down the pay for play aspect of college b-ball. The way you do that is go after the top dogs. When you go after the mafia, you do t go after the low level guys, you go after The Godfather.

Well, you go after the low level guys and hope they flip. But he made it clear he wasn't cooperating.
 
tOSU pays their players? Who would have thunk!
My eyes were completely opened the night of the Big 10 championship game when a father and son sitting next to me, who were tOSU grads readily admitted that most of the payers didn't go to class and they knew they were being paid. I asked them how they could honestly cheer for that. They shrugged!
 
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tOSU pays their players? Who would have thunk!
My eyes were completely opened the night of the Big 10 championship game when a father and son sitting next to me, who were tOSU grads readily admitted that most of the payers didn't go to class and they knew they were being paid. I asked them how they could honestly cheer for that. They shrugged!
How would they know that most of the players don't go to class and are being paid? I suspect that to some degree, but I don't have knowledge of it.
 
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