Another late game meltdown against a mediocre to slightly better than average opponent.
We are trending in the right direction but we aren't there yet.
We are trending in the right direction but we aren't there yet.
I've tried to have faith... but it's just not there yet
- Thread starter wildcatcoaster
- Start date
It is all about the players. Unless Collins can recruit decent Big 10 players, he will fail like every single one of his predecessors have. You can just see the difference in athletic ability between NU and every other team that NU has lost to this season.
As long as you are starting Sanjay Lumpkin out there, you are not going to beat good teams. Sanjay is a role player who gets big minutes on our team despite the fact that he is a liability on the offensive end. I don't mean to berate him. It's not from lack of effort. He just isn't a starting player for a tournament team.
To answer NJ Cat, NU is recruiting players: 4-star players who will be there next season who weren't there this season: 1. Vic Law, 2. Rapolas I., 3. Barrett Benson. Next year, NU will have 4 4-star players and McIntosh is a playmaker and will be a first or second team Big 10 player.
It is difficult to win in the Big 10 on the road when you do not have a consistent third or fourth option. Falzon is still a frosh. I think he will make a big step soon and most likely, next season and hopefully, Pardon also does and Law will be there.
OSU has a number of 4-star players: 1. Lyle, 2. Loving, 3. Tate, 4. Bates-Diop, 5. Gibbons and maybe No. 15 Kam Thompson that is why they win. So when one of these has an off night, another player is ready to step up and tonight transfer C Thompson ate up Olah.
It is the same way in football because OSU has 3 or 4 times the number of 4 and 5 star recruits as any other Big 10 school. Yes, I know UM and MSU in football is closing the gap, but that is how you win consistently and sustain success.
But to answer NJ Cat, Collins has been recruiting Big 10 capable players and he will continue to do so. McIntosh showed a lot of fire out there tonight and should be commended. Demps was solid, but others need to step up and be a 8-10 ppg players. And no, you can't have starters who throw bagels in the box score.
It is difficult to win in the Big 10 on the road when you do not have a consistent third or fourth option. Falzon is still a frosh. I think he will make a big step soon and most likely, next season and hopefully, Pardon also does and Law will be there.
OSU has a number of 4-star players: 1. Lyle, 2. Loving, 3. Tate, 4. Bates-Diop, 5. Gibbons and maybe No. 15 Kam Thompson that is why they win. So when one of these has an off night, another player is ready to step up and tonight transfer C Thompson ate up Olah.
It is the same way in football because OSU has 3 or 4 times the number of 4 and 5 star recruits as any other Big 10 school. Yes, I know UM and MSU in football is closing the gap, but that is how you win consistently and sustain success.
But to answer NJ Cat, Collins has been recruiting Big 10 capable players and he will continue to do so. McIntosh showed a lot of fire out there tonight and should be commended. Demps was solid, but others need to step up and be a 8-10 ppg players. And no, you can't have starters who throw bagels in the box score.
You can talk about all the BS factors you want - the scheduling, the schemes on offense and defense, breaking the press, etc.
In the end, I think this team is going to end up generally where it deserves to be.
I couldn't agree more about the Lumpkin comment. And at any point in the second half, did you feel comfortable with the ball in the hands of Olah or Demps?
It's a shame.
In the end, I think this team is going to end up generally where it deserves to be.
I couldn't agree more about the Lumpkin comment. And at any point in the second half, did you feel comfortable with the ball in the hands of Olah or Demps?
It's a shame.
I'm Sanjay's biggest fan (at least in my own mind). And I don't like parceling out one player for criticism, but that's not really how I read your post.
It's a year that is still part of the transition. If Law starts at the 2 next year and Rap starts at the 4 this is a much longer and much more skilled team than the current version. But with Olah gone and Sanjay off the bench, maybe not as tough.
There was some great ball movement last night that, frankly, I hadn't seen this year. And then an athletically superior team slowly took over. Sanjay wasn't the weak link. But he his about 6 5 and playing in the post against guys who are five inches taller.
NU has really nice size at center this year. Will be smaller there next year, but overall much longer and much more skilled.
Let's hope that one of Law, Rap or Scottie wants the tough bail out shot.
Everybody recruits high level players in the Big Ten. You need to do more than recruit high level kids to win in Big Ten.
Sorry but I just don't see how Sanjay's toughness aids this team. He fouls way to much and add nothing to the offense. I really haven't noticed him playing the 5 this season, maybe last year but agree with a couple of others that he is not a starter on a Big Ten contender.
He plays Big Ten defense, something this team struggles with. I think Falzon is pretty decent for a freshman on D and that's about it among the starters.
Skelly is now playing over Taphorn and it's pretty obvious that Collins is going with D and energy over offense.
What's the alternative, a matador defense?
I agree with the comment that Scottie should have played more, even taking some of Sanjay's minutes.
One of the difficult things about this year is we're counting it as Collins' third year, but it's the first or second for his players. Falzon can be an all-Big Ten player one day, but he's got to get used to playing tougher defense and needs to get stronger in the off-season. Pardon, in my opinion, will be all-Big Ten one day. He gets into foul trouble way too easily right now, but he'll get better at avoiding that with time. We know what we have with Sanjay, a good player who again had a really bad night. My belief is he's best suited as a bench player who stays in longer on good nights, similar to Skelly's current role.
You're not wrong, but isn't that true for almost all coaches who take over a program? That first year is with the old coach's players. Sometimes it goes really poorly before building slowly to a high level of competition (see McCaffrey, Fran), and sometimes it goes the other way (see Coker, Larry).
Rap will be a true freshman. How often do those come along ready to play and contribute big time? In the CCC period:
Mac - great job - hit the wall halfway through B1G
Law - didn't really show anything until halfway through the B1G
Falzon - hot and cold at best
Pardon - great, for a game. Still shows potential to be great - but is so-so
If we are relying on a frosh to solve our problems next year, I hope he had an offer at Louisville that he scuttled after the recent events and decided to come here instead. I just don't see FROSH as impact players - especially at the F and C.
I think if we are going to succeed next year, then a veteran lineup has to step up. So absent a 5th year transfer, I think it rests on:
Mac
Lindsey
Law
Falzon
Pardon
or maybe, but less likely:
Mac
Law
Falzon
Skelly
Pardon
I think we should remember that Lumpkin will be a 5th year senior and thus he would be elgible to transfer. I doubt that he will but you never know.
I know several people have been talking about Vic Law playing the two. I just don't see it. In my mind he is a three or a four.
I think you will see Law, Falzon, and Pardon starting initially on the front line next year, with Mac starting along side of either Lindsey, Lumpkin, or Ash. More than likely Lindsey or Ash with Lumpkin one of the first people in. Then again if you look NU747, this Isiah Brown is quite a scorer. Your also going to see Benson, Ivanauskas, Skelly banging up front a lot.
If we get a fifth year guy, I think it will be a two guard. We may just may recruit another point or two guard freshman for that 13th scholarship.
We cannot speak of that 13th scholarship here until it becomes free or you will anger the NU koolaid brigade
I tend to think you are right about Law and the 2. Which is also why I think it is so important to figure out what we have in Lindsey and Ash in real competition. And I think we will see some freshmen action - though hopefully not much as it would be a sign that good things have happened. In my perfect scenario, take my first five above and rotate Ash, Lumphorn and Skelly until one of the frosh demonstrates early value. In theory, all three could end up seeing the floor and pushing Ash, Lumphorn and Skelly to the end of the bench.
Stop. if there is one thing we should all know, is that Lumpkin is not a 2. Actually think that 13th schlorship has to become available and you use it for a guard. Rap will likely get more minutes then Falzone is getting this season, pushing Lumpkin farther down the bench. Also is Taphorn still around and will he be next season?
You know I forgot about Taphorn. I think if he is healthy he is a good spot or situation player. I heard from one of the local guys close Brian James that he has foot problems also but not as bad as Olah and Van Zedren. I've actually met he and his dad. They are good people.
His foot was bad enough to keep him from playing in Spain though. If he isn't limited by injury, then the staff have decided he isn't part of the rotation and will likely get further buried next season when Rap comes on board.
Guys, imagine if Vic Law played this season. Our offense, most likely, would have another double digit scoring option so when the score is tied with five minutes our opponents would not only have to focus on the perimeter and put the clamps on BMac and TDemps. Our rebounding would increase significantly. And maybe he could create some steals and imagine if we could score a couple of easy buckets in transition like the five dunks that OSU had on Tuesday night.
Imagine on defense that he would have been able or been a more adequate defender to guard athletic 6'5"-6'7" players in the Big 10 like Iowa's Peter Jok, Denzell Valentine, Rasheed Sulaimon, Loving/Bates-Diop, Troy Williams, JJackson from UNC, and the hated B.Taylor from PSU who abused our zone. If you recall all of those players crushed NU.
Can you now see the impact of Vic Law's absence? From the scrimmage that I saw Vic Law in he was working on his dribble drive skills and he was NU's best rebounder coming into the season. Now I am not saying that we win all those games that I referred to above but it would have improved our chances. And maybe it will take Vic some games to get adjusted and up to speed next season but he has more athletic talent than just about anyone on the squad.
On another note, next season, there is the possibility that Isiah Brown and BMac could be on the court at the same time. My fingers are crossed that Brown is a talent and shotmaker at the Big 10 level and NU could have some minutes like Iowa's two PG lineup of Clemons and Gessell.
Imagine on defense that he would have been able or been a more adequate defender to guard athletic 6'5"-6'7" players in the Big 10 like Iowa's Peter Jok, Denzell Valentine, Rasheed Sulaimon, Loving/Bates-Diop, Troy Williams, JJackson from UNC, and the hated B.Taylor from PSU who abused our zone. If you recall all of those players crushed NU.
Can you now see the impact of Vic Law's absence? From the scrimmage that I saw Vic Law in he was working on his dribble drive skills and he was NU's best rebounder coming into the season. Now I am not saying that we win all those games that I referred to above but it would have improved our chances. And maybe it will take Vic some games to get adjusted and up to speed next season but he has more athletic talent than just about anyone on the squad.
On another note, next season, there is the possibility that Isiah Brown and BMac could be on the court at the same time. My fingers are crossed that Brown is a talent and shotmaker at the Big 10 level and NU could have some minutes like Iowa's two PG lineup of Clemons and Gessell.
I'd give guys like Falzon a year or two. Shurna was a decent freshman if I remember correctly, but I doubt he averaged 10 points a game his first year. I think people at the time thought he was a good get, but there really was no indication he'd become the scoring machine he was as an upperclassman. There aren't many guys who can make the jump from high school and college and be stars right off the bat. Even all those studs Duke and Kentucky signed are having some growing pains this year.
I think you'll see a fifth year transfer guard to help the cause or they may take a out of high school guard if there is a good player available, who would be around for 4 or 5 years. If you look at what we got from this fifth year rule it isn't much. A good forward from Louisville in Carmody's last year who blew out his knee in January. A big guy from Yale, Kreisburg who was good for a few minutes. A big guy from Virginia Tech, VZ who did alright until he injured his foot.
The return may be better in a four year recruit. There have also been rumors that the NCAA is pondering a change on the fifth year transfer deal because of you guessed it abuses of the rule.
That's interesting because I was noticing that one of the big complaints about the Louisville post season ban was based on the fact TWO of their BEST players were last year transfers who were losing their ONLY chance to play in the NCAAs. I doubt if academics had anything to do with their change of venue.
I would like to see Lindsey, Mac, Law, Falzon and Pardon as our starting 5. I do not believe Law can play the 2. . We will still be thin in the backcourt but well stocked up front with Rap,Benson, Skelly, Lumpkin and Taphorn. I am not sure that we will have a typical 4 but Skelly and Lumpkin can be used to defend more physical power forwards
I would hope Falzon and Rap hit the weights like Taphorn did
I doubt we will be able to play man to man but we will have a lot of fouls to give in the front court
I would hope Falzon and Rap hit the weights like Taphorn did
I doubt we will be able to play man to man but we will have a lot of fouls to give in the front court
Shades of Edward T. McCants, but I think that Brown kid who is scoring 40 or 50 a game might end up being the best kid to land in this program in some time. I dunno - I'm just impressed with someone who can score 40-50 a game, I don't care who they are playing against.
A lot of that depends on the players in the system from the former coaches staff and how well they fit into what the new coaches want to do. CCC inherited a group of players that basically had very limited major program offers and it takes a while to elevate the talent level and get them into competitive condition. None of his guys are upper class men yet.
Similar threads
