Just thought this topic needed its own thread. Lot's of interesting insight analysis in a few different places. My quick take is that this move was all about winning. There was a lot of speculation (me included) that he wanted to go back home to Texas. But now it seems as if the losing streaks just wore on him. I wish him well and hope he doesn't go for 30 against us.
Kopp to Indiana
- Thread starter 7th Cir. Cat
- Start date
I expect him to do well at Indiana. He wont' be the focus of the offense and he can pick his spots. He will be much more of a threat playin with people who can consistently drive and kick it out.
BTW - Is this first player in the CC era to transfer out to a P5 program? Who was the last NU player to transfer to a BIG 10 school?
It is really the only "relevant" player to transfer from a CC team IMO. As demonstrated by his "offer" list:
"He picked Indiana from a list of offers that included Oregon State, Texas A&M, Utah, USC, Creighton, South Carolina, New Mexico, Georgia, Vanderbilt, Wichita State, DePaul, Oklahoma State and Xavier"
Only other that has a (small) case is RAP
This was an interview with Kopp before his commitment. That last paragraph sure didn't sound like a guy whose number goal was winning - https://www.insidethehall.com/2021/...-miller-kopp-breaks-down-his-three-finalists/
I admit my view is cheap, fan board sour grapes, but I think winning was a convenient second priority.
To be reasonable to Kopp's viewpoint, I'm sure Collins told him he was going to have some competition this year. Collins needs to find a way to have that motivating post-season discussion in a more positive tone that keeps a kid bought into the program. It's pretty obvious that's an ongoing problem.
I admit my view is cheap, fan board sour grapes, but I think winning was a convenient second priority.
To be reasonable to Kopp's viewpoint, I'm sure Collins told him he was going to have some competition this year. Collins needs to find a way to have that motivating post-season discussion in a more positive tone that keeps a kid bought into the program. It's pretty obvious that's an ongoing problem.
Doesn't the argument of having more competition falls apart when he transferred to a program that will put him up against much more serious roster competition?
We always read way too much into things but, to me, it is fairly clear he was not a big fan of CC:
"Coach Woodson sees my potential as a versatile player and he has a plan for my development,"
"I think the Big Ten will see a different player," he said. "Someone who's a versatile player offensively and more than a shooter. Playing in the open court, playing in ball screens and more swagged up overall, to be frank."
Lol. Bruh, we asked you to be more than just a shooter this year. The results... were not good.
"More swagged ..." Yea, let's strut that 30% from three.
Ugh, get Kopp out of here!! I want to remember him well. But the more he talks, the more I'm leaning toward "good riddance."
Yes, I'm being a cheap fan.
Those opportunities were more than available in the NU offense. The team went out of its way to help him break his three-or-four game slump at the end of the year. How many more opportunities do you want?
I hear you that he needed to make shots. But Indiana is a true blue blood program that regularly puts players in the NBA. They must have seen something on film to think that our staff just wasn't using him correctly. I guess we'll find out.
The necessary corollary to Kopp’s statement that “Woodson has a plan for my development” is that Collins did not have such a plan. That’s, uhh, not good.
Last I checked, we were ranked and undefeated, atop the Big Ten, right before Kopp's 24% 3-point shooting, 33% from the field and 0.43 A/TO the rest of the season sunk us.
I don't disagree at all. Collins shares blame here. (I already expressed my thoughts on that when the transfer was announced, so I won't belabor it here.)
But this could just as likely be "Woodson told me what I wanted to hear."
I don't know, there is merit to both sides.
For a couple years I've thought that we haven't used him that well - we should have run him through much more off ball action and screens to get him into the flow of the offense and create shots rather than just have him sit there and wait for the ball to come to him off other people's drive / kick opportunities or offensive rebounds. So I think there's some merit to his point.
On the other hand, he did really struggle this year anytime he tried to attack off the dribble, so I dunno. It seemed like something happened part way through the season - not sure if a disagreement or issue with the coach or something else (I actually thought he might have been hurt), but he was not himself that last 2 months of the season, was just going through the motions out there. So perhaps in hindsight his struggles were driven by a lack of motivation.
Hard to say. Will be instructive to watch and see what happens with him this year - if he does develop into a more versatile player under a different coaching regime, that would be potentially a bad reflection on our current staff. If he fails to make an impact at Indiana, then it would seem that maybe it was more driven by the player than the coach.
Regardless, I think it's hard to deny that his comments were an indirect criticism fired at CC...
I agree. For as much as I'm not a fan of CC, I do not think that Kopp's problems in particular had as much to do with how he was used, as they had to do with the fact he is slow.
Ultimately it comes down to being in a team where Xavier Johnson and Jackson Davis will drawn a lot more attention from other teams than staying with Kopp 100% of the time.
Rationally I can't blame him for wanting to be in a better position. But irrationally I had heard the rumors of Indiana and just hoped that, out of respect for NU, he would end up at Oregon State. I should be more rational about it, but hate seeing him at Indiana.
No it just means Kopp likes whatever Woodson is selling him more.
From the beginning, I've said this is bad for Collins. There might be nobody on this team Collins put more faith in - maybe Nance.
But Collins gave Kopp FAR more opportunities than I think he earned. The opening minutes of the Minnesota tourney game was all about getting Kopp on track. And, for two years, anytime Kopp was open as the trailer on a break, it's obvious Kopp was the go-to guy for that quick hit.
Could the offense have been more creative about getting Kopp the ball? I can totally see that argument. But I'd love to know how many WIDE open shot he missed in the last half of the season. The shots were there for him.
I don't know if I agree Kopp struggled off the dribble. He struggled when he got into the lane. He was a mess. But that little pop from the free throw line was there for him all day, and he didn't use it nearly enough.
And notice how none of us discuss his rebounding. He's 6-7! Admittedly, that may be a function of the offense.
Collins has well-earned any second guessing. But I find a lack of self-awareness in Kopp's whining and strutting on his way out the door.
OK, I'll stop.
Kopp's development at Indiana (or lack thereof) will be a much better measuring stick of our own staff than Rapp who dropped down several levels in competition. Really curious to see how this plays out.
Those are all great points. At some point' shooters have to put the ball in the basket. But then why do you think such a strong program offered him a spot? What did they see on tape? IU is trying to win the conference, not simply make the tourney. There has to be some there there.
There's a good chance this is just a kid trying to say the "right things" on his way out the door. But does not really know what those "right" things are. And he's not looking back in the rear view mirror and trying to please NU fans. He's looking ahead at thinking about Hoosier fans.
I say this because it would be uber lack of self awareness to think he is a capable ball handler. He is slow and lacks serious leg strength to finish around the basket. He has two weapons: spot up shot and pop up of the dribble going left. And those should be enough to be really good at Indiana, where he won't need to rush his shot nearly as much
I will eventually understand how I'll feel about him when I see him play. I hope I get to the point I cheer for him doing well. While hoping IU loses every game. Because cheering for IU would be crazy.
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Seems like for a kid who won’t be going pro all he did was downgrade his diploma...
I doubt CC is losing much sleep over Kopp’s 11pts/3 rebs when his best skill (3 pt shot) was killing us at 33% last year (and probably even worse in B10 play). For comparison even Beran shot better.
His leadership seemed to be negligible.
Not to mention Kopp looked like he wasn’t having any fun last season- I’m sure he was a blast to be around. Guy looked like he hadn’t taken a dump in about 3 weeks
I doubt CC is losing much sleep over Kopp’s 11pts/3 rebs when his best skill (3 pt shot) was killing us at 33% last year (and probably even worse in B10 play). For comparison even Beran shot better.
His leadership seemed to be negligible.
Not to mention Kopp looked like he wasn’t having any fun last season- I’m sure he was a blast to be around. Guy looked like he hadn’t taken a dump in about 3 weeks
I've always agreed that Kopp should be better than he is. And I don't disagree that Collins probably has something to do with it.
Coaches ALWAYS think they can get improvement out of someone with that profile.
But let's not pretend that IU is the monster program it once was. They have the history and tradition, but there's a reason they have a new coach - and a hire that is being questioned all over the place.
That wasn't exactly a list of established programs. But maybe the established programs called and this is where he ended up. Playing time was obviously important to him.
EDIT: I generally don't blame a kid for leaving NU. It takes someone special to be dedicated to this, and it has to get frustrating. I'd want a chance at a tourney also.
Also, I'm assuming Chrissy is no walk in the park.
But just be cool about it on your way out. It's not that difficult.
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Maybe I give 21-year olds more leeway for mistakes than you do, but I think you are being unnecessarily harsh. I get the frustration, but if I'm a coach Kopp is saying exactly the things I'd want him to say. I'm certain the Indiana coaches feel Kopp is better than what he showed the second half of the season. Heck, I'm certain the Northwestern coaches think that.
Either way, the situation isn't a positive for Coach Collins much in the same way that the Kevin Coble situation wasn't a positive for Coach Carmody. I'm sure there are two sides to both those stories, but the coach is in charge and gets both the praise and the criticism for everything that goes down.
Coble was an injury situation and a squabble over how to deal with it. Very different than this, a guy who thinks he's better than what his own performance has shown him to be.
Kudos for the self-awareness. See...we just have to get a little bit older to have the kind of self-awareness we wish Miller had showed in those quotes. 😂
Meh...I'd wager that the two situations aren't all that different. Both appear to be kids who have a very different vision for the situation and their needs than head coaches that they aren't all that enamored with.
Kopp was the most swaggiest player we had between April and October. Didn't see as much swag in the middle of winter.
Indiana tried to give Brad Stevens $70 million!!! He would have been the highest paid college coach. It was likely a hefty raise over his current salary with the Celtics. And he still said no to them.
In one case you had a guy dealing with a serious foot injury that can affect the way of life for a very tall person and a medical department that had screwed up some similar treatments for other athletes around the same time.
On the other you have a guy who was subpar at shooting but wants to shoot more and who was worse at ballhandling but wants to handle more.
So, sure, if we pull out far enough and call it a different vision, I can see that. But I find one to be a much more legitimate gripe, even if it was disappointing the way it all went down back then.
Also says a lot IU thinks Brad Stevens is worth $40M more than Mike Woodson.
I don't disagree with anything you said. He was downright bad the last 2 months of the season. In retrospect it's a bit easier to see why - he must have already moved on mentally.
His comments weren't great, but also compared to the whole wide world of things out there in college sports they are still pretty tame. I get your point, but I wouldn't quite call them whining and strutting. I think we are spoiled by how perfectly prepped and polite and proper and deferential and well-spoken NU student-athletes are 99% of the time. His comments were a bit more edgy toward the school he was leaving (and seem unmerited given the amount of chances CC gave him), but keep in mind the broader scale of comments from athletes in the rest of the world. And yes on the lack of self-awareness thing but when has any high-level athlete not had belief and/or ambition to being a better or more versatile or more highly used player than he currently is?
Anyways, like I said I agree with your points. Definitely not saying you are wrong. Will be interesting to see what happens with him at IU.
So Kopp shot 9-14 in the first 4 conference games (3 NCAA tourney teams), where we went 3-1. Then he shot 2-14 over the next 5 (all NCAA tourney teams), which we lost all of those. I can forgive that bad stretch, it was brutal for the team to be playing top-10 teams night after night.
However, during the final 11 games of the season against 6 NCAA teams that went a combined 4-5 in the tourney and 5 non-tourney teams, he shot 23% (13-56) from 3 while we went 3-8. Is he going to flip some magical switch that will suddenly allow him to make these shots against crappy teams that he couldn't make this year?
However, during the final 11 games of the season against 6 NCAA teams that went a combined 4-5 in the tourney and 5 non-tourney teams, he shot 23% (13-56) from 3 while we went 3-8. Is he going to flip some magical switch that will suddenly allow him to make these shots against crappy teams that he couldn't make this year?
I suggest NU got the better half of that deal.......
IU is not what it once was. But they still put people in the league; Victor Oladipo and Eric Gordon are 20ish PPG guys and Romeo Langford was a lottery pick last year. They can still pull in 5 star recruits. Given what's been said about Kopp on this board (most of which I agree with) it's really curious to see him get a spot with IU.
Man, some of the comments in this thread....did I stumble onto a Tennessee board by mistake? 😜
