curious if anyone saw it and what your thoughts are. I caught pieces of it and really found myself agreeing with calipari on everything. One line really struck me - he views his job as being about jobs moreso than about education. If he gets kids that NBA contract he feels he's done his job.
Latest 30 for 30 on calipari
- Thread starter Windy City Cat Fan
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What about jobs for those not destined for the NBA? There are not enough jobs in the NBA for all Division I basketball players.
And so, for those Kentucky players who don't get that NBA contract, does that mean that Calipari has not done his job? That he has failed them?
And so, for those Kentucky players who don't get that NBA contract, does that mean that Calipari has not done his job? That he has failed them?
If you view your university as a sort of vo-tech school for BB players, I suppose there is some truth in this. At least he doesn't seem to be hypocritical about what he's doing.
I thought the show showed Calipari for what he is...a guy about the money for he and his players. One of many things he said that I can't stand is when he said after 5 first round picks that it was the "greatest day in Kentucky basketball". The 5 greatest days in Kentucky men's basketball should be the 5 National Championship days.
I just find the whole notion of linking someone who has a desire and skill set to pursue a career as a professional basketball or football (but not any other sport) to attending a 4 year university extremely ridiculous.
Is that any different than a kid who enters a university assuming they are going to pursue a particular degree but ends up flunking out or gets a job totally unrelated to their degree?
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A) I don't disagree with Windy City above. It's unfortunate the academic institutions don't agree with you also.
B) OTOH, why is the concept of providing training for basketball so much more ridiculous than providing training for theater? I bet less than 10% of theater majors make a long-term careers from the theater.
It somewhat goes back to your definition of the purpose of higher education: vocational training or mind building. If vocational training is not part of your definition, then sports gets dumped.
C) Back to Calapari's discussion of vocational training. Bob Huggins uses the same line except with a broader example of players going to Europe. I generally dislike the guy, but when he says most of his players play five years in Europe for a minimam of $100K, and asks you to compare that to the average college graduate, it's not a horrible point if the kid can transition to a post-Europe life easily.
In the end, like the average student, so much academic and non-sports career success depends on the student him-/herself. The athletes also have MANY more academic advantages than the average student. If they don't take advantage, they share part of the blame.
It's such complex mix becausr everybody is in so deep at this poknt. I admit I dislike my hypocrisy for supporting the relationship between the schools and the kids.
A four-year degree is used as a filter to interview for many jobs, regardless of the degree. I'm not a fan of that, but that's how it is. It is a qualification.
For one thing, the person with the degree unrelated to his job still has a degree. The Calipari one-and-done does not have a degree, and the aspiring one-and-done whom Calipari fails in his quest for the NBA never aspired to a four-year degree.
Even the flunky at least aspired to a four-year degree. The purpose of the undergraduate programs at the University of Kentucky is to award degrees. So why are such non-aspirants matriculating into the University of Kentucky at all? Why even bother making them take classes? It's a waste of everybody's time, which could be better-spent honing their "trade."
You really think a 4 year degree in communications or African American studies or kinesiology or music history holds more weight than having had played a professional sport for a few years or played at a Kentucky - I know which one I would be more impressed by, depending on the job you are hiring for of course. College isn't for everyone so why do we try to force kids who whether disillusioned or not have no interest in college go so that they can pursue their occupation of choice - someone who wants to be a tennis player a musician a baseball player a cop a chef an entrepreneur etc etc isn't forced to pursue a degree in something unrelated to what they want to do. Why not remove the restriction to enter the NFL or NBA and offer majors in basketball etc. give kids college credits for their sport participation, offer classes around coaching, broadcasting, journalism, front office type that are focused on the sport they are pursuing. I find it very arrogant that people just assume you can't be successful without a college degree. Lots of people are not college material and are quite happy and successful doing what they want to do in life.
By the way - I know the answer is money, both for the NCAA and a free minor league system for the NBA and NFL. I just find it illogical and unfair.
Because the bachelor's degree wage premium is real and growing wider over time, mostly due to falling wages of those who lack a bachelor's degree.
I don't like it, but that's the reality of the job market.
If a player has no interest in college, he can play straight out of high school in the NBA D-League or Europe for a year and get paid right away (I would recommend Europe: higher wage and a solid living if the NBA doesn't come calling). Calipari makes a mockery of the mission of the institution he represents. But that's the priority of the state of Kentucky.
LOL at basketball majors. They would probably carry weight in Kentucky.
Why is a basketball degree any more of a LOL than any other major of the arts, theater, music, film, art etc.? The number of people who make it big with any of those degrees is probably less than the number of kids that make it to the NBA. majoring in basketball could prepare kids for other basketball related careers which they could pursue - coaching, athletic director etc. look at all the former NU football players who are coaching in some form or another, many of whom have a degree in something that is really not doing them any good.Because the bachelor's degree wage premium is real and growing wider over time, mostly due to falling wages of those who lack a bachelor's degree.
I don't like it, but that's the reality of the job market.
If a player has no interest in college, he can play straight out of high school in the NBA D-League or Europe for a year and get paid right away (I would recommend Europe: higher wage and a solid living if the NBA doesn't come calling). Calipari makes a mockery of the mission of the institution he represents. But that's the priority of the state of Kentucky.
LOL at basketball majors. They would probably carry weight in Kentucky.
I had the same reaction as you. Calipari didn't create the "19 years old or 1 year out of high school" rule, that was collectively bargained by the NBA and the NBA Players association. If it didn't exist, many (but not all) of these players would go directly to the NBA. As George Raveling says, Cal lives in the "world as it is" not "the world as we wish it was". We are talking about 30 or 40 kids a year, the vast majority of players are in it for 4 or 5 years and many of those (but by no means all) get a degree.
As an aside, the two issues the NCAA banged UMass and Memphis for arguably had nothing to do with Calipari. Should he have suspected Marcus was getting freebies by the jewelry he was wearing? Perhaps, but by that time the horse was out of the barn. Rose and the bogus SAT? That falls more on UM admissions staff than the basketball coach.
Yeah but we brag about NU grads who go on to become high earners or leaders in their industry so apparently wealth and financial success are important to a school's reputation. Some of our most famous 'alumni' like Brent Musburger and Cindy Crawford do not hold degrees from NU. Even Charlton Heston didn't finish.
I'm very disappointed in Calipari. I rooted for his teams, back to UMass days, since I knew his family well by working with his ole man. He isn't even close to being like his dad, I can tell you that. His family couldn't be a more honest, hard working bunch, with integrity. I actually root against Johnny now and think he is a very ignorant man with little to no integrity.
I watched it last night. I didn't get this impression of him whatsoever. I say don't hate the player, hate the game
First of all, coaches know everything about their players and programs. Does anyone believe that Rick Pitino or Roy Williams had no idea what was going in Louisville's dorm rooms that their recruits were going to or that Roy Williams knew nothing about his star players getting "A's" in non-existent classes?
Calipari's big accomplishments:
1. The NCAA vacating his Final 4 appearance at UMass because he recruited a transcendent NBA player in Marcus Camby who was taking money from agent for only his junior year. Do you think Camby was taking money earlier than that? I think so;
2. The NCAA vacating his Finals appearance at Memphis led by Derrick Rose who every recruiting magazine knew he had not the requisite SAT score to play until his 7th try when he miraculously passed the requisite SAT score. It was later determined that Rose had someone else take the test for him; and
3. Won his only title at UK behind no. 1 pick Anthony Davis whose dad told the Chicago Sun-Times that there were $180,000 reasons why Anthony went to UK. UK threatened to sue the Sun-Times but the story was never retracted and no lawsuit was ever filed. Interesting that in the Cam Newton recruiting controversy, the $180,000 figure was also brought up. That might have been the going rate in the SEC for star players.
I did not even mention the World Wide Wes connection with Slick Johnny C to funnel top ranked hs bball players to his programs.
Some good background material college basketball hall of famer Calipari.
Calipari's big accomplishments:
1. The NCAA vacating his Final 4 appearance at UMass because he recruited a transcendent NBA player in Marcus Camby who was taking money from agent for only his junior year. Do you think Camby was taking money earlier than that? I think so;
2. The NCAA vacating his Finals appearance at Memphis led by Derrick Rose who every recruiting magazine knew he had not the requisite SAT score to play until his 7th try when he miraculously passed the requisite SAT score. It was later determined that Rose had someone else take the test for him; and
3. Won his only title at UK behind no. 1 pick Anthony Davis whose dad told the Chicago Sun-Times that there were $180,000 reasons why Anthony went to UK. UK threatened to sue the Sun-Times but the story was never retracted and no lawsuit was ever filed. Interesting that in the Cam Newton recruiting controversy, the $180,000 figure was also brought up. That might have been the going rate in the SEC for star players.
I did not even mention the World Wide Wes connection with Slick Johnny C to funnel top ranked hs bball players to his programs.
Some good background material college basketball hall of famer Calipari.
I agree with you on points 1) and 3). On 2), coaches should not have any influence on the admissions process. Admitting Rose after 8 tries and his miraculous qualifying SAT score on a test taken in Detroit (!) is on the Memphis administration, not Calipari.
little late to the party on this one......no price on a good education that prepares you for a life well lived.... Calipari is about Calipari.....The real problem in trying to separate 18 year olds that would like to play and represent their university where they are pursuing an education versus those that just want to play NBA ball is that it would wreck the system and TV would have no idea what to do ....nor would we.......What would that look like this year if we took out all the kids that had no intention of getting a real education? Of course we then are also saying that college education and education have no real purpose but a job on the other hand a 4 year education does not prevent you from getting a job in the NBA does it?...... Calipari does wear nice suits,
Wouldn't it become what college baseball or hockey is? Something that allows the individual to chose what they want to pursue in life while earning a living doing so? Granted it would kill the cash cow that is college football or basketball but it ends the hypocrisy of pretending that Derek Rose needs to achieve a certain SAT score in order to become successful at doing what he wants to do in life.
This is simply not true. In music and art, even with the increasing U.S. tendency to crap on the arts, there are thousands of jobs in teaching alone. If by "making it big" you're talking about a tiny number of people making a fortune, then it might be the NBA. But if it's securing gainful employment you have a much greater chance of making it with virtually any college degree than making the NBA.
I have no idea what a coach does or doesn't know but why does Derek rose even need a certain SAT score to continue his basketball pursuit, what do the two have to do with each other besides allowing the NCAA to rake in millions of dollars and pretend the term student athlete means something that it isn't.
So you feel there should be no academic standards for student-athletes?
Again, the NCAA has nothing to do with the 1-and-done situation. The NBA and the NBA Players Association have collectively bargained that an NBA player must be 19 and 1 year removed from their high school graduating class to be eligible to play in the NBA. Rose could play overseas, but wanted to play in the US which meant in a major college program. The University of Memphis chose to admit him knowing a) his SAT was questionable, and b) he probably wouldn't play more than 1 year. He and MANY other college basketball players are in school to play basketball first, and get an education second. Just look at the incredible number of transfers (>800 each of the last 2 years). You think these scholarship players would be leaving for another school if their primary concern was academic fit? I don't.
You don't think the NCAA has anything to do with it? They sure would have a lot to lose if basketball and football became like baseball. The NCAA and the NFL and NBA owners are very wealthy organizations that like things just the way they are - everyone gets rich all we have to do is pretend like these kids are pursuing degrees of higher learner. What you say is all true, the whole set up just doesn't make any sense and to me calipari is someone who sees that and is calling it out, while at the same time he's getting fat on the system too
That would depend on whether you actually attain a college degree or not, and the record at many of college's sports factories is not good in that regard. If, for example, you're going to coach sports at a high school you're usually going to have to teach there or become a part-time coach while making your living in another field. Many schools are cutting back on assistant coaches due to financial considerations. Making the NBA as a goal is not a viable option for all but a tiny few of the population. Frankly, the whole "one and done" thing is ridiculous to me. There's really no reason in my opinion why a player who has a shot at making the NBA out of high school shouldn't get that shot. Looking at my own area, I see very few sports-related jobs that provide anything approaching a full-time living. There would be more of those jobs in large urban areas, but there's also a much greater population sample there.
You talk about things like a basketball major taking journalism classes. But NU already offers degrees in journalism. If a player wants to focus on sports journalism, that path already exists, but you talk about creating a "journalism lite" path for the basketball player who gets to substitute playing time to count as class credits towards his degree. Since he's substituting playing time for coursework, his "journalism lite" degree is clearly less rigorous (academically) than the established journalism route.
What department is responsible for providing this degree with a major in basketball? Will it be the athletic department? Or will you slap Medill in the face by forcing them to accommodate the journalism lite path? What about the "front office type" path? What about the "coaching" path? Will this major in basketball be open to all students or only to the athletes who can use their playing time as class credits?
The NBA, I agree. For the NFL, I thought a big part of it was for the safety of the young players. In college years the football players are still growing and developing an NFL-ready frame. A player who jumped straight to the NFL out of high school (not that I believe any such players would even be drafted) would get destroyed playing against NFL bodies.
Couple of things here.1.Seems to me that you base value on money only.....there are other forms of value.....I look back on my college education and believe it has made me a happier more complete,contemplative, intelligent person (college not the only way to do that) That part of my college education that got me employed got me a bigger screen tv which I enjoy as my eye-site goes south. 2. I think the skills required to be an Athletic Director, coach, agent etc, require way more skills than those simply acquired by playing the game.
Fine...but that's an NBA issue. For those kids who wish to play college basketball, you don't think there should be any academic requirements?
My Medill degree included, as I recall, only 12 journalism courses, of which three were taken up by a quarter-long internship (no instruction, full tuition!). I had, all told, nine actual courses in journalism.
A well-rounded 'hoops' major - with sport specific coaching, history, strategy classes - along with a variety of business, law, economics classes to support things like running private coaching / training operations - would be very analogous to what I took.
NU is not the right school to offer a program such as this - with no undergraduate business and no physical education, the school would be starting from ground-up - but it absolutely makes as much sense. I would submit that it could be a series within the sports management concentration that many schools already have.
A hoops major is at least as likely to find a career in hoops as a percussion performance major is to find a career in percussion performance. Sports seems a growth industry to me - I'm not sure about music in general, but I have a good idea about operatic performance.
From my count, there are about 60 teams through the organization linked below. Sponsorship sales, recruitment, coaching, past player outreach - it's all baseball, but it's lots of other things as well.
http://www.eastcobbbaseball.com/
Yes, and presumably you had requirements for your non-journalism courses, too.
An aspiring hoops journalist can get a degree in journalism. For someone wanting to learn about running a business, although not offered by NU (as you noted), there are schools that offer undergraduate business degrees. Those wanting to learn about broadcast can major in RTF. Someone wanting to become a high school coach, as others have noted, will likely need to teach a class, so will need some expertise in such a teachable field (English, history, etc.), not a competency developed by counting game time as course credits, although high schools in Kentucky would likely be content to have a hoops graduate teaching these classes.
What hole is being filled by a hoops degree that can't be filled by another degree? This is a dumbed-down degree, offering course credits for playing time to water down the academic rigor of the hoops degree in comparison to the established degree that it imitates. In a choice between the established degree and the imitation, all other things being equal, I would hire the former every time. The latter would have to be extraordinary in some way to overcome that; but that person is probably making a living playing basketball anyway, and any subsequent broadcast career would be extended to him by virtue of his fame, not his hoops degree. However you're trying to frame it, it's a path for jocks that offers a degree plan without taking as many classes. It would further lighten the course load for the single year that one-and-dones actually attend school.
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