Lathon Comps

[scru]

Thinking about next season, even though we're just starting this one, I think expectations for Lathon should be tempered. It's really tough for freshmen guards in this league to be major contributors and lead teams on games. Watching Mark Smith (UoI) and Nojel Eastern (PU) playing so far, they have their moments where you see the athleticism and potential, but they still have so much to learn to be consistent and steady performers for their teams.

It would be really nice if Ash or Brown are actually able to learn the role and help the transition after BMac graduates.

 

[CappyNU]

I disagree, I would be very disappointed if Lathon comes in and struggles mightily. Northwestern has had a very good track record of freshman PGs coming in from TJ Parker to Craig Moore to Juice Thompson to Dave Sobolewski to BMac. None of them were a liability as freshmen.

 

[Smokejumper]

I think that if Lathon comes in and struggles at lead guard, then it is all CCC’s fault. It also highlights how much we miss Coach Baldwin. Never should have let him leave for UWM - Pay Up already Phillips. Doesn’t everyone know what is needed to run a top tier program?!?

He’s a four star point guard and attended IMG for at least 2 weeks. Come on - that’s more talent than we’ve ever had at point guard. And more talent on the team than we have had - ever. If we don’t win the conference and the NCAA tourney i will be forever disappointed in both our team, the coaches, the athletic department and the university. Don’t they know how important this window of opportunity is?!?

/s

 

[willycat]

I think that if Lathon comes in and struggles at lead guard, then it is all CCC’s fault. It also highlights how much we miss Coach Baldwin. Never should have let him leave for UWM - Pay Up already Phillips. Doesn’t everyone know what is needed to run a top tier program?!?

He’s a four star point guard and attended IMG for at least 2 weeks. Come on - that’s more talent than we’ve ever had at point guard. And more talent on the team than we have had - ever. If we don’t win the conference and the NCAA tourney i will be forever disappointed in both our team, the coaches, the athletic department and the university. Don’t they know how important this window of opportunity is?!?

/s

Come on, hopefully some of this is said tongue in cheek. No program stops a assistant from taking a HC position and they shouldn't. Thinking that Lathon will come in and start as LG just like Mac did.

 

[mickbula]

I think we'll be even better next year than we were in 16'.

 

[DaCat]

I think that if Lathon comes in and struggles at lead guard, then it is all CCC’s fault. It also highlights how much we miss Coach Baldwin. Never should have let him leave for UWM - Pay Up already Phillips. Doesn’t everyone know what is needed to run a top tier program?!?

He’s a four star point guard and attended IMG for at least 2 weeks. Come on - that’s more talent than we’ve ever had at point guard. And more talent on the team than we have had - ever. If we don’t win the conference and the NCAA tourney i will be forever disappointed in both our team, the coaches, the athletic department and the university. Don’t they know how important this window of opportunity is?!?

/s

I think our program is ready to be included in the NBA.

 

[FitzFan]

I think our program is ready to be included in the NBA.

Not until we get rid of Cushing.

 

[Smokejumper]

Come on, hopefully some of this is said tongue in cheek. No program stops a assistant from taking a HC position and they shouldn't. Thinking that Lathon will come in and start as LG just like Mac did.

Uh Willy - are you so old school you don't even recognize the /s for Sarcasm font?!?
Geesh

 

[willycat]

Uh Willy - are you so old school you don't even recognize the /s for Sarcasm font?!?
Geesh

Actually I did sense it but thought it deserved a reply anyway. Oh and yes, I am old school.

 

[Smokejumper]

Actually I did sense it but thought it deserved a reply anyway. Oh and yes, I am old school.

All good -

We might both be old school, but the at least we didn't spend our youth growing up in this world of social media and all that comes with it like having to live up to implicit and explicit, overhyped expectations.

 

[Sec.112]

Anyone who doesn't temper freshman-year expectations for any player outside the top 50 is setting themselves up for disappointment. Michigan, Ohio State and Iowa each have two ESPN 2017 top 50s on their roster.

For Michigan, Jordan Poole is scoring a very respectable 7.3 points/g in 10 min/g. Isiah Livers is playing 10 m/g and scoring 3.2 p/g.

For Ohio State, Kaleb Wesson has started six of their nine games, scoring 11.7 p/g in 22 m/g. Kyle Young, one start, 9.7 m/g, 2.4 p/g.

For Iowa, McCaffery's kid has mono, and hasn't played. Luke Garza is playing 18 m/g and scoring 7.6 p/g.

There's some nice performances here through nine or ten games. There's also some guys with work to be done. And these are top 100 players! Not top 150.

I hope Lathon is ready to go. But I wouldn't be surprised if he stumbles also.

Talk to me next November.

 

[Trigatos]

I think that if Lathon comes in and struggles at lead guard, then it is all CCC’s fault. It also highlights how much we miss Coach Baldwin. Never should have let him leave for UWM - Pay Up already Phillips. Doesn’t everyone know what is needed to run a top tier program?!?

He’s a four star point guard and attended IMG for at least 2 weeks. Come on - that’s more talent than we’ve ever had at point guard. And more talent on the team than we have had - ever. If we don’t win the conference and the NCAA tourney i will be forever disappointed in both our team, the coaches, the athletic department and the university. Don’t they know how important this window of opportunity is?!?

/s

Carmody would have had him ready

 

[Medill90]

Anyone who doesn't temper freshman-year expectations for any player outside the top 50 is setting themselves up for disappointment. Michigan, Ohio State and Iowa each have two ESPN 2017 top 50s on their roster.

For Michigan, Jordan Poole is scoring a very respectable 7.3 points/g in 10 min/g. Isiah Livers is playing 10 m/g and scoring 3.2 p/g.

For Ohio State, Kaleb Wesson has started six of their nine games, scoring 11.7 p/g in 22 m/g. Kyle Young, one start, 9.7 m/g, 2.4 p/g.

For Iowa, McCaffery's kid has mono, and hasn't played. Luke Garza is playing 18 m/g and scoring 7.6 p/g.

There's some nice performances here through nine or ten games. There's also some guys with work to be done. And these are top 100 players! Not top 150.

I hope Lathon is ready to go. But I wouldn't be surprised if he stumbles also.

Talk to me next November.

Yeah, Nojel Eastern at Purdue and Smith at Illinois, two guys who looked at NU. Top three players in state and while you can see promise, you can also see that they are frosh.

I think the good news is that Lathon will have 9ish guys who have been part of the program and a couple guards who can spell him.

 

[Inovacat]

Yeah, Nojel Eastern at Purdue and Smith at Illinois, two guys who looked at NU. Top three players in state and while you can see promise, you can also see that they are frosh.

I think the good news is that Lathon will have 9ish guys who have been part of the program and a couple guards who can spell him.

Taking note: Mister Illinois basketballer Mark Smith dropped from starting Illini lineup against Austin Peay in favor of Da’Monta Williams.

 

[willycat]

Yeah, Nojel Eastern at Purdue and Smith at Illinois, two guys who looked at NU. Top three players in state and while you can see promise, you can also see that they are frosh.

I think the good news is that Lathon will have 9ish guys who have been part of the program and a couple guards who can spell him.

Doubt CC will expect Lathon to be a double digit scorer but certainly is hopeful that he can bring the ball over the 10 second line, run the offense and dish out assists. Come to think of it that all seems like a pretty high order. Hope he's up to it.

 

[mikewebb68]

Actually I did sense it but thought it deserved a reply anyway. Oh and yes, I am old school.

"Old school" as in the one-room schoolhouse with the outhouses out back, amirite?

 

[spartcat]

For Lathon, I guess I'm hoping for something like Tony Banks (Penn State) who is about the same height and was somewhat higher rated. He had an inconsistent but promising freshman year and is playing well now.

We really need Vic Law to stay for a 5th year, Gaines to get an outside shot, Ash/Brown to show leadership, Falzone to stay healthy, and Rap to actually get on the court. Then the first years will have a chance to fit in gradually as they learn the college game. If the vets play well, we could be very good next year.

 

[Katatonic]

I disagree, I would be very disappointed if Lathon comes in and struggles mightily. Northwestern has had a very good track record of freshman PGs coming in from TJ Parker to Craig Moore to Juice Thompson to Dave Sobolewski to BMac. None of them were a liability as freshmen.

Normally, I don't like to place too much expectations on frosh, but I'm w/ Cap on this one.

The 'Cats have had a long list of PGs who came in as frosh and played at least respectable.

Sobo got more than his fare share of criticism, but despite his limitations athletically, he put up some decent stats as a frosh - 8.3 ppg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 rpg, .399 FG% and .357 3P%.

And Sobo was a decent enough ball handler; better than BMac in handling the press.

And speaking of BMac, there were those who were claiming BMac as the best NU PG ever - even before his frosh year, was up, whereas I countered that while it may turn out to be, it was way too early to tell and that Juice's career nos. could certainly give BMac a run for his $$.

As BMac's time leading the team is coming to a close, seems likely that in a comparison of their play over the course of their entire NU careers - that Juice will come out ahead.

Btw, am high on Lathon and am excited to see what he brings to the table (altho trying to temper my expectations).

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

I think we'll be even better next year than we were in 16'.

What? Final Four baby!

 

[Hungry Jack]

Uh Willy - are you so old school you don't even recognize the /s for Sarcasm font?!?
Geesh

Had me fooled too. I guess Willy and I are birds of a feather.

OTOH, I assume we will have another schollie. If so, CC must bring in a grad transfer at G or I will assail him with a wet noodle.

 

[blockm2]

For Lathon, I guess I'm hoping for something like Tony Banks (Penn State) who is about the same height and was somewhat higher rated. He had an inconsistent but promising freshman year and is playing well now.

Tony Carr was the #46 overall recruit in his class to Rivals while Lathon is #132. I don’t think that is terribly close for comparisons.

I kinda think Carr will go pro this spring. He’s one of the most talented guards in the country and has NBA ready athleticism.

 

[DaCat]

Tony Carr was the #46 overall recruit in his class to Rivals while Lathon is #132. I don’t think that is terribly close for comparisons.

I kinda think Carr will go pro this spring. He’s one of the most talented guards in the country and has NBA ready athleticism.

And we all know that those rankings are 100% accurate.

 

[blockm2]

And we all know that those rankings are 100% accurate.

of course they are accurate as they are the accurate representation of opinions of talent scouts

what you mean to say is they are not deterministic. Of course. Nobody knows how players will develop. But higher rated recruits tend to become better players than lower rated recruits. There is overwhelming statistical proof of that. I mean maybe the #57 recruit is a coin flip with the #62 recruit, but comparing like #50 to #150, it's not particularly close in terms of outcomes over a big enough sample.

My post is pointing out that Carr and Lathon are not thought of similarly as prospects which was the point of the post I replied to.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

And we all know that those rankings are 100% accurate.

I'd say (with zero evidence to prove my point) that they are probably way more accurate than football rankings. Less positions, smaller teams, fewer skills to judge (shooting ability, passing ability, etc.). It's kinda dumb to compare an offensive tackle to a quarterback to a running back. A PG and a PF all have to shoot, pass, play defense and perform other similar actions.

 

[blockm2]

I'd say (with zero evidence to prove my point) that they are probably way more accurate than football rankings. Less positions, smaller teams, fewer skills to judge (shooting ability, passing ability, etc.). It's kinda dumb to compare an offensive tackle to a quarterback to a running back. A PG and a PF all have to shoot, pass, play defense and perform other similar actions.

you are correct, but I think it's also mostly because of AAU ball where you get to see the best players on the court against the other best players in a team setting over and over and over again all summer long for multiple summers. Football players essentially never play in that setting. The best you can see is camps where they do some skill competitions against other elite talents.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Carmody would have had him ready

Unlike >: (

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

My post is pointing out that Carr and Lathon are not thought of similarly as prospects which was the point of the post I replied to.

Agreed.

IHMO, the bar for incoming freshan can be set a bit too high on this board. Rowley, Crawford, Law, Vassar, and Brown are just a few NU players of the past 10 years who have had higher than reasonable expectations set on them by posters.

Lathon could very well end of being a new addition to that list.

 

[willycat]

Agreed.

IHMO, the bar for incoming freshan can be set a bit too high on this board. Rowley, Crawford, Law, Vassar, and Brown are just a few NU players of the past 10 years who have had higher than reasonable expectations set on them by posters.

Lathon could very well end of being a new addition to that list.

Or he could become NU's first "one and done".

 

[EvanstonCat]

Or he could become NU's first "one and done".

The dream is that he is our version of Trae Young.

The floor is that he ends up being Edward T. McCants with unfulfilled promise and prophecy wasted.

The truth is, nobody knows.

 

[cometclear]

And we all know that those rankings are 100% accurate.

You can't have it both ways and tout Nance as many here do, based upon is rankings and then claim the rankings aren't reliable when someone inconveniently points out that another recruit isn't all that highly-rated.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Or he could become NU's first "one and done".

C'mon, man.

This these statements do nothing but set up the student athlete for undue criticism when they don't meet a ridiculous standard.

Exercising patience with incoming freshman is a wise policy.

 

[willycat]

C'mon, man.

This these statements do nothing but set up the student athlete for undue criticism when they don't meet a ridiculous standard.

Exercising patience with incoming freshman is a wise policy.

Do you really think that it would hurt NU if they had a kid who was really good to be drafted by the NBA after his freshman year? I don't.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Do you really think that it would hurt NU if they had a kid who was really good to be drafted by the NBA after his freshman year? I don't.

Willy,

I really try to understand your point of view, but with strawman's like this it's really difficult to take anything you post seriously. You really need to step up your posting game. It's not a good look for you.

 

[willycat]

Willy,

I really try to understand your point of view, but with strawman's like this it's really difficult to take anything you post seriously. You really need to step up your posting game. It's not a good look for you.

Let me help you guys. Why wouldn't it be a good thing if Lathon, or Kopp or Nance become one and done guys. Answer there isn't one.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Let me help you guys. Why wouldn't it be a good thing if Lathon, or Kopp or Nance become one and done guys. Answer there isn't one.

You really don't understand what a strawman is, huh? Also, who are these "guys"? You're responding to my quote.

For clarity, I never said "it wouldn't be a good thing if Lathon (Kopp or Nance) isn't a one and done". That is something you just started bringing up in subsequent posts after I commented/expanded on what I felt was a good statement from blockm2. My thoughts on freshman departing for the NBA draft is irrevelant because I never made an argument that addressed such happenings; in part because it has nothing to do my thinking that overhyping incoming freshman (like Lathon) is a somewhat common occurrence on this site and it sets unreasonable expectations on those student athletes. If a recruit is widely considered to be capable of going pro after one season in college, that's great. Those assessments are not applicable to Lathon (or any of the incoming freshman), at least for the time being.

Perhaps you are unintentionally responding to the wrong poster or are just confused on how proper dialogue is created. Either way, conversing in a manner that is both on topic and addresses actual statements made by others (not strawmen) is a basic tenant of message board posting.

 

[Max_Power]

The dream is that he is our version of Trae Young.

The floor is that he ends up being Edward T. McCants with unfulfilled promise and prophecy wasted.

The truth is, nobody knows.

He's no Trae Young -- he's a thinner version of Anthony Gaines with better ball and shooting skills. Might be quicker. I'd expect him to provide a similar level of defense as Gaines did this year. I hope he will be more productive on the offensive end as a freshman. Maybe 8pts and 4 asts as a freshman.

 

[willycat]

You really don't understand what a strawman is, huh? Also, who are these "guys"? You're responding to my quote.

For clarity, I never said "it wouldn't be a good thing if Lathon (Kopp or Nance) isn't a one and done". That is something you just started bringing up in subsequent posts after I commented/expanded on what I felt was a good statement from blockm2. My thoughts on freshman departing for the NBA draft is irrevelant because I never made an argument that addressed such happenings; in part because it has nothing to do my thinking that overhyping incoming freshman (like Lathon) is a somewhat common occurrence on this site and it sets unreasonable expectations on those student athletes. If a recruit is widely considered to be capable of going pro after one season in college, that's great. Those assessments are not applicable to Lathon (or any incoming freshman next fall), at least for the time being.

Perhaps you are unintentionally responding to the wrong poster or are just lost on how proper dialogue is created. Either way, conversing in a manner that is both on topic and addresses actual statements made by others (not strawmen) is a basic tenant of message board posting.

Gee how enlightening. Now go and huge mystic.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Gee how enlightening. Now go and huge mystic.

Wow.

Thank you for making it clear you have no time for productive discourse. I will keep that in mind in the future.

 

[Gladeskat]

Wow.

Thank you for making it clear you have no time for productive discourse. I will keep that in mind in the future.

Fly larvae ate Willy's productive discourse brain cells and his Happy Meals years ago.

 

[Katatonic]

He's no Trae Young -- he's a thinner version of Anthony Gaines with better ball and shooting skills. Might be quicker. I'd expect him to provide a similar level of defense as Gaines did this year. I hope he will be more productive on the offensive end as a freshman. Maybe 8pts and 4 asts as a freshman.

D should be an improvement just based on athleticism.

On the O-end, 8 ppg and 4 apg should be the floor as that's what Sobo did as a frosh.