Let me attempt a little perspective
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That doesn't explain the disappointing shooting tonight. What on earth????? That said, this team has a lot of potential and deserves our every ounce of support. I'm thinking NCAA's next year. Tonight, imo, was the worst game of the year, but they have had helluva games where they rock. I can see the potential and I'm pulling for our brothers on the court to dial it all in again. We will have some fun victories this year but I don't see NCAA and only borderline NIT. Maybe they get NIT, I think they have a decent chance with some hard work, but give CC credit for progressing this team. And I can see the progression, even with injuries. As far as tonight, I'm not much of a BB expert but I would have liked to seen JV Dam play a lot more than he did. He seemed in a groove over the last several games. That said, MSU killed us on their non-paint points so it prolly wouldn't have mattered.
I'd think it would be pretty terrible. I'd also ask why Demps and Olah were absolute non-factors, though.
Well considering my idea was that we'd be talking about this last July and August, we wouldn't know why.
But it's a fair question. It's also fair to ask why the sophomore guard and former red-shirt freshman have been more effective.
I'll play - but I would want more bit of info - Pardon is B1G ready. I would think running Mac, Lindsey, Lumphorn , Falzon, Pardon with a rotation of Demps, Ash, Olah and JvZ would be ok. I think I started posting last summer that I thought Lindsey was lynch pin. And maybe he was. If he had played well, then maybe CCC would have been pressed into sitting Tre. In that case, three guards splitting 80 minutes means Mac doesn't have to play 35+ per night and hit the wall.
If I told you Lindsey would take the next step in your scenario, with the emergence of Pardon - where would you expect this team to be?
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I'm willing to give Olah a pass. He was playing pretty well before the injury and then got dumped right into the gauntlet. Once the 'Cats gets past Iowa, I think we'll see improved play. He's down, just like the rest of the squad. Hardly ideal from a senior, but I'm holding out hope for him to bounce back.
I'm clueless to what's going on with Demps.
According to Collins, Alex has a broken bone in his foot, worse that Joey's problem. Kid can't even practice on it. Criticism of him is highly unfair.
Disagree. He should not be on the floor if he can't play. If he is on the floor, critique his play is fair. Life is not fair.
So we're saying the seniors are playing poorly, Pardon is playing as he is and Lindsey is playing well? That's still an NIT team ... maybe.
But that's another addition to the July/August 2015 discussion: Olah , Demps and Lindsey are giving you nothing. Where do you think the Cats will be?
Unfortunately, I think NU is about where they should be, maybe even a tad better considering the scenario. I hope somehow they can eek out an NIT invite from this mess.
I agree it's unfair, but I'm going to be the unfair guy because I'm not sure I buy that there's a complete difference in his game from the pre-conference. He's still soft to the basket, poor on defense and settling for little jumpers way too often that he never makes. SSDD.
I agree. In that scenario - knowing it in July - my expectations drop to rebuilding year. I forget about Olah and Tre altogether - maybe unfair - but Tre isn't going to the next level and can focus on his education and family. Olah is hurt and should focus on healing so he can walk when he is 50. Ash, Mac and Lindsey (for the sake of evaluation) get the G minutes. Heavy doses of Skelly, Falzon and Pardon. I get experience for the guys that will play next year and get loads of tape to evaluate where I need to recruit - the 2, the 3? If things played out with heavy minutes that Lindsey couldn't make the next step, perhaps I plan for his departure and let him know at season's end that his future PT is dim... Down one schollie, we need productivity from the ones remaining.
I'm with you 100% on this, NJ.
Injured players should be off limits. If Collins thinks a limited (but cleared) Olah gives this team the best chance to win and Alex wants to play through the pain to help his teammates, that's an admirable decision.
These are student athletes, not professionals. Sometimes that can be lost on posters during the ups and downs of a season.
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This is B1G, Power 5, high revenue, nationally broadcast minor league basketball. No one is forced to play. No institution is required to be D1 or Big Ten. High school, intramural, D2 - ok, I see your point. Not here. Those playing on a national stage are subject to scrutiny. There has been plenty of discussion about the 'student'-athlete around here.
As for Olah, I suspect he plans to play professionally overseas. This is his minor league tryout.
This might be a good option if the players were robots.
Chemistry is important. Younger players often look up to their older teammates. Essentially "canning" the seniors creates the notion with your underclassman that:
A) Coach has given up on the season.
B) What will prevent coach from doing this to me when I'm an upperclassmen?
IMHO, Collins acting in such a manner would be detrimental to the program.
This is Northwestern. Not Kentucky.
Remember, we are talking about basketball. Players can declare after one year if they choose. The NBA has the D league for a reason.
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In the hypothetical as contrived, the season is a lost cause. And I have no problem with a player looking over his shoulder. If you cannot beat out the younger, better player behind you - take a seat.
The chemistry in this hypothetical is irrelevant. They are playing for next year and developing chemistry for next year's team.
And their is pro ball in Europe. And these players are in fact compensated. And none are forced to play. And these games draw high priced tickets, ad revenue, etc.
But here, tell me you think Olah has no pro aspirations. Maybe there is a soft spot for him. No? You also believe he plans to play professionally. Then he is a minor league player in an extended tryout on a national stage. Accordingly, with all the rest, he is subject to scrutiny.
The D league can't hold a candle to the actual minor league called the NCAA. The simple fact that players can turn pro after a year out of H.S. makes the 'student athlete" term a made-up joke. It's about time for the NCAA and NBA to again give kids coming out of high school the freedom to practice in their chosen profession and do away with the phony one and done students.
And the NCAA and NFL as well. Or speed to the day when this BS is corrected in the courts.
This is starting to get off topic, so I'll finish off here.
Your premise was to play Ash, Skelly, Lindsay, and Pardon over guys like Demps, JVZ, Lumpkin, and Olah. I understand the "looking over your shoulder" bit if the younger recruits were stronger and Collins was basing PT on seniority. I don't believe that's the case here. CC wants to win and the youngsters that are on the bench (outside of Pardon) haven't shown enough to warrant more time, even taking into account the struggles of the upperclassmen.
You can't make these types of decisions and expect to have the trust of your team and staff. Such moves plant seeds of doubt in everyone's head, including the players that would be receiving more minutes. That can have long lasting effects. Chemistry is vital to the health of a program. We are talking about human beings after all.
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Like I said, this is Northwestern, not Kentucky. The student athlete matters in Evanston.
As for the D-League, it may be all about flash (to catch the eyes of scouts) and is less team oriented, but the program consists mostly of top end former power 5 players. It's a MUCH better minor league than college basketball. The euro leagues are as well. Your point is valid regarding college football, though.
I agree that the age requirement is bogus for up and coming prospects, but it mostly effects the elite programs, which are kind of a league of their own. Northwestern isn't and shouldn't be Kentucky.
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So you want to do away with the student-athlete concept and just turn NU athletics into a pro sports team? I hope that never happens.
We can win and still have student athletes. We think that the two do not work together, but we have to have higher aspirations.
A healthy NU team was projected to be an NIT team this year. With injuries to two key starters the team becomes a bubble NIT team. Unfortunately Demps has been in a complete shooting funk most of this season, it's not that he hasn't been able to get open looks, he just can't knock down shots that used to be very good looks for him.
Olah, Demps and Macintosh were the top 3 offensive players last season, losing their production really hamstrings an offense that didn't have many scorers to begin with.
This season is disappointing because I, and most cats fans, were expecting postseason play. The NIT is still achievable but the team is more out than in at this point. However, given the injuries I can't say the team is playing any worse than I would expect. Hopefully Olah can get healthy and Demps will find his shot late in the season, with a good Big ten tournament run and a few more conference wins we can contend for an NIT birth.
Olah, Demps and Macintosh were the top 3 offensive players last season, losing their production really hamstrings an offense that didn't have many scorers to begin with.
This season is disappointing because I, and most cats fans, were expecting postseason play. The NIT is still achievable but the team is more out than in at this point. However, given the injuries I can't say the team is playing any worse than I would expect. Hopefully Olah can get healthy and Demps will find his shot late in the season, with a good Big ten tournament run and a few more conference wins we can contend for an NIT birth.
Ok - how does bouncing guys like Vasser and Abrahamson impact chemistry? Before you talk about whether Vasser had the talent, remember I cited talent as the reason to demote Tre, bench Olah and increase PT for Ash and Lindsey. Well, if telling guys that they will not see the floor and should consider moving doesn't impact chemistry, why would running the younger guys.
But forget the extremes for a moment. What is wrong with ramping up the PT for Ash and Lindsey, Skelly too - at the expense of Tre and Olah? Start Tre if you must, but play him 20 minutes max or less! Same with Olah. By playing the guys coming up during a period when they cannot hurt the team's chances, aren't you showing all the younger guys a commitment to fulfilling the recruiting promise of bringing NU to its first dance?
I would think sacrificing growth and evaluation in order to show deference to the last regime's players demonstrates an unwillingness to do what it takes to get over the hump. And if I'm one of the 2 and 3's for 2017 that we read about and I'm on the fence, then I expect I will have to sit for a couple years before I see real time due to the seniority ahead of me. Easier for me to pass on the Purple Koolaid and take one of the better options.
But it would be nice to be Butler,Duke, even Stanford. Hell, ND fields a pretty good team every once in awhile. How about we start there as a point of aspiration?
"Ok - how does bouncing guys like Vasser and Abrahamson impact chemistry? Before you talk about whether Vasser had the talent, remember I cited talent as the reason to demote Tre, bench Olah and increase PT for Ash and Lindsey. Well, if telling guys that they will not see the floor and should consider moving doesn't impact chemistry, why would running the younger guys."
It's very simple. Vassar and Abrahamson didn't earn their minutes with their play in games or in practice. Like I said above, neither have Ash, Lindsay, and Skelly. Hopefully, they will in the future.
Do you really think Tre, Alex, and Sanjay are playing because of seniority? If there is anything we've learned from Collins is that he plays the guys that he believes will give NU the best chance to win. He and the staff see the bench in action everyday at practice. I trust their judgment over that of a frustrated fan.
Agree to disagree.
It's very simple. Vassar and Abrahamson didn't earn their minutes with their play in games or in practice. Like I said above, neither have Ash, Lindsay, and Skelly. Hopefully, they will in the future.
Do you really think Tre, Alex, and Sanjay are playing because of seniority? If there is anything we've learned from Collins is that he plays the guys that he believes will give NU the best chance to win. He and the staff see the bench in action everyday at practice. I trust their judgment over that of a frustrated fan.
Agree to disagree.
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