Got to remember that centers are often positioning to block out guys so others can get the rebounds. That said, many of those boards were long on Mich missed shots and just outside of the areas we had boxed out
Maybe teams have "figured out" our base defense now.
- Thread starter FeralFelidae
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They only had 7 turnovers (elt alone forced ones. Chase got his 3 steals but no one else really got theirs) while we had 9. They had more points off turnovers than we did. We just did not have the energy and no time to prepare for them
hdhntr1, we just played Michigan not that long ago, so we should have been able to just watch film and talk about adjustments. Its not like Juwan Howard is one of the good Big Ten coaches.
We need to mix it up more on defense, I'm sure of that. Most Big Ten coaches are serious about winning and will modify what they do offensively to beat us. Our opponents are actually waiting for us to double team and looking to take advantage.
To go one step further, our defense's "elite" status was largely a result of playing very aggressively against a bunch of teams that can't match our athleticism. We play aggressively, we go for steals. BigTen teams, for the most part, have scored on us, primarily from outside the arc, because they move the ball better and shoot better than the non-conference competition we faced.
We need to mix it up more on defense, I'm sure of that. Most Big Ten coaches are serious about winning and will modify what they do offensively to beat us. Our opponents are actually waiting for us to double team and looking to take advantage.
To go one step further, our defense's "elite" status was largely a result of playing very aggressively against a bunch of teams that can't match our athleticism. We play aggressively, we go for steals. BigTen teams, for the most part, have scored on us, primarily from outside the arc, because they move the ball better and shoot better than the non-conference competition we faced.
I think we’re in trouble. It’s still not enough rest. This Covid thing jacked up our season
I’m sorry but as a data driven person I am surprised how quickly you dismiss data on 20 games from this season. This team played great defense, including the first 3/4 of the Iowa game and the first half of the Michigan game. You dismiss this as playing aggressive against non-athletic teams. The most logical explanation for the last two games is this team is gassed.
You are searching for data that proves that CCC is a bad coach. He may not be the best game day coach but he has gotten more out of a 10 man squad than any of us ever imagined. Give the guy credit when it’s due. He deserves it for this year.
I’ll go one step further. Any of us can look at decisions CCC makes and say “why did he have Roper in at the end of game?” or “why didn’t he sit Buie or Audige at the end of the Minnesota or Nebraska games?”
I think he should have done all of those things. That said, the Cats are 15-7 and 6-5 in the B1G. CCC delivered some of that through his coaching. No one expected that. Why would you second guess incremental decisions for the results he has achieved? That’s what the head coach is supposed to do.
I think he should have done all of those things. That said, the Cats are 15-7 and 6-5 in the B1G. CCC delivered some of that through his coaching. No one expected that. Why would you second guess incremental decisions for the results he has achieved? That’s what the head coach is supposed to do.
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I'm USING the data.
I dismiss non-conference stats entirely if the team is clearly inferior.
Thats what you should do too.
Anybody can look good playing against weaker opponents.
Nowhere did I remotely imply that Iowa and Michigan aren't athletic.
Look at our stats against the other Big Ten teams - its easy enough to find.
We are 5th in points scored per game. We are 10th in points allowed.
NCAA Team Stats - RealGM
Find a complete listing of all the Big Ten Conference basketball teams, on RealGM.com
basketball.realgm.com
So please knock it off with this trash about me looking for reasons to "Prove that CCC is a bad coach." Why would I do that? I don't know the guy and want Northwestern to win. I look at the data and report what I think it is telling me. Based on that I concluded that Collins is a below average coach for the Big Ten, specifically due to how he manages the roster (and strategy) during games. This is more honest than those who proclaim he is a good coach based on fairy dust.
I wrote that Northwestern would be better than people expected this year. And not because we got Tydus Verhoeven via transfer. It was the relative performance of a few guys on our bench last year that had me upbeat about this year. Bringing in assistant coach Lowery has helped, too. And I have adjusted my view of Collins as a result.
And when exactly was that? They had just had to get ready to play IA on short rest after having to play three other games on short rest and it was a second midweek game in the same week on top of everything else. They didn't get back to Evanston till 1 AM the day before the game. They might have had one sort of practice and it was an early game. And there are those other pesky things like classes and studying to deal with.
There is a lot of time between noon Wednesday and 6 pm Thursday to get the team together to discuss how we want to approach playing our next opponent.
Given the magnitude of the home game against Michigan, we really laid an egg. A couple guys looked tired and played poorly. Others didn't.
I originally heard that they did not get in till 1 AM. Someone else suggested it was more like 2:30 AM. In any event it was likely 2:30 AM or later before they were able to get to bed. That means that they were totally dead for that day. Plus they are not pros so there are rules and regulations on hrs and contacts that the coaches are allowed to work with the players. And after that travel classes to catch up on etc. They really do not have the time to go over things that you imply
There were originally no scheduled games during the season with less than two days between games (not just NU but anyone in conference. (IA ended up with one because of the reschedule as well)They also tend to have 3 days off at least once a week. We just had two in basically a weeks time and no 3 day off stretch in two weeks and travel was involved as well. 5 games in 10 days. It is both physically and mentally exhausting and with other commitments, there was really not the time for what you suggest
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Honestly, if you look at level of play, Buie was able to handle the compressed schedule. Audige and possibly Beran were not. Other guys didn't seem too affected.
I'm not saying the schedule didn't hurt us to some degree, but its tough to defend Collins for playing Audige and Buie 37 minutes a game because it might wear them out. People said that in real time, not in hindsight.
Yup, those wanting to credit CCC for the amazing start - well, time for him to adjust on both ends. If CCC should receive the credit for great start then he gets pinned with how it finishes. What will really dive me nuts will be someone anticipating how CCC gets the credit for the first half and then blame the second half on the players. But I see it coming….from….
I want to believe there are a couple wrinkles with the defense that they have been holding back for the back half of the conference schedule…however, I also want to believe in Bigfoot!
That and a bunch of back taps. Don't know exactly how to defend against that, but need to figure something out.
It’s ludicrous for anyone to defend not making adjustments. They are always needed, even if you keep winning. Argue what those should be, not whether a coach should adjust or not.
If last year is an indicator it’s unlikely we see any changes. The man just kept on pounding that rock. Even when we came back big time against UNL in the B1G tourney, on the coattails of Young and Nance playing together, he went back to the same old the next day. Through the bitter end, he persevered in doing what did not work.
My only CCC gripe this season is that I feel he lost the Rutgers game with terrible game management at the end re timeouts and fouls.
You don’t really make wide sweeping adjustments typically during the season. You have a scheme that your team wants to execute both offensively and defensively. Depending on the opponents strengths and weakness you make minor twists and changes to exploit them. It’s not so much of a “they figured out the defense” as the lack of practice time doesn’t allow NU to add those little twists as effectively. It’s one thing do a walk through and talk about the twists on film watch and a complete other thing to have a day with full speed practice working on the twists.
Also the execution in the 2nd half of both games was noticeably different than the 1st half. There were some mental lapses on both ends of the court. Lots of just failure to box out and close out. Poor switches. More an execution thing than a strategic collapse imo.
I don’t think the team needs to change anything wide sweeping defensively. Hopefully with an extra day between games they’ll return to form defensively.
Keep in mind these are college kids with full course loads unlike many other schools. Balancing missed classes and hw on road trips isn’t the most fun thing in the world. Especially on shortened rest. These players got ripped out of their routine for game preparation. Sucks but gotta figure out a way to overcome it and win games.
Also the execution in the 2nd half of both games was noticeably different than the 1st half. There were some mental lapses on both ends of the court. Lots of just failure to box out and close out. Poor switches. More an execution thing than a strategic collapse imo.
I don’t think the team needs to change anything wide sweeping defensively. Hopefully with an extra day between games they’ll return to form defensively.
Keep in mind these are college kids with full course loads unlike many other schools. Balancing missed classes and hw on road trips isn’t the most fun thing in the world. Especially on shortened rest. These players got ripped out of their routine for game preparation. Sucks but gotta figure out a way to overcome it and win games.
Not sure they even were able to have one. Lot of rules on coaches contact with players over course of week that gets disrupted. They were likely tired the next day so even if they were able to get in a practice, hard for it to be meaningful. In Collins's post game press conference Collin's stated that they had really not been able to practice during the 5 game in 10 day period. Especially likely with 1 day between and getting in late
You ever heard of classes? How about regulations on how much and when contact can occur? CCC indicated in is post game press conference that they had not really been able to have ANY practice time during the 5 game stretch. Even less likely getting in late and only having one day between games
He is pretty limited with two guys down right now. They finished 6 game stretch 4-2. Basically what they had to do. Right now they are 4-4 in quad one games and 3-3 in Quad 2. That is about as good as anyone in the league. 6 teams tied in 3rd with 7-5 records
Some of it is also due to tired legs. Guys are a half step slow getting to positions
Not sure why you seem so upset or whatever about this.
Yes I have heard of "classes." I graduated from NU. My daughter is a junior at NU now.
You are overplaying this thing (and for no reason).
As for the defense thing, Wahl and Crowl average a combined 24 points on 21 shots. They each went 2 for 5 today.
Overall, Wisconsin shot better from three (9-23) than from two (10-27).
OSU’s Sensabaugh is absurd, hitting almost half his threes while also being a truck. Lipton and McNeil are both shooters, too, with serious ‘Cam Spencer’ potential. (They combined 3-6 outside last month against NU.)
Overall, Wisconsin shot better from three (9-23) than from two (10-27).
OSU’s Sensabaugh is absurd, hitting almost half his threes while also being a truck. Lipton and McNeil are both shooters, too, with serious ‘Cam Spencer’ potential. (They combined 3-6 outside last month against NU.)
Because they can't just do what you insist is so easy. For example, all activities during the season are limited to 20 hrs per week (TOTAL). Games count as 3 hrs. no more than 4 hrs in a day, Have to have a day off (and plenty of rules regarding this). Practice cannot interfere with classes Even visiting the facility counts so all 4 hrs for the day of an away game are used. Same for a home game with a walk through or just basic preparation. Here are the rules.
So in a week with three games, only a total of 8 hours is even available for the whole week and that includes any contact including weight training or any other coach contact. Therefore what you insist is so easy to do is not possible with three games in a week during the season. And I am not even sure of all the rules regarding travel which can also factor in.
I don't think he called for that foul. Fact is he can do all he can in coaching and still the players have to execute. For example yesterday at the end of the half, Barnhaizer made a great play getting another rebound in the sequence and we should have gone into half taking the last shot. But he took a shot early that missed and then WIS went down and scored so instead of a 5-7pt lead at half, it was 3. Was that CCCs fault? Or a player getting caught up in the excitement of the moment and making a mistake?
During this stretch there is basically no time to make any significant adjustment. They are limited to 20 hrs per week , days off, not interfering with classes etc. During the last couple weeks of 3 games, outside of those games, coaches are limited to 8 hrs total other contact. Best you can try to do is try to keep them centered in whatever they are supposed to do. And even that is almost impossible in a 3 game week.
NCAA Bylaw 17.1.5.3.2 - Competition Day
"All competition and any associated athletically related activities on the day of competition shall count as three hours regardless of the actual duration of these activities."
So there's really no issue here - if you play 3 games in a week, thats 9 hours. You can have a strategy meeting at noon on gameday and that doesn't count against you.
As soon as BB shot it, he puts his hands to his face in dismay. Then on the defensive end he didn't follow Wahl until it was too late. He was very disappointed in himself already and CCC let him have it. It was a brain fart for sure, one that no one on the squad will make for the rest of the year.
And why bother have a coach courtside? Yes, especially if they get credit for the positives, then they deservedly take blame for the negatives.
On the bus, or plane, seems like opportunity for whiteboard time…
Exactly. In the heat of the moment players can make some mistakes. Is that the coaches fault? I mean they can try to minimize them but cannot eliminate them
Just suggesting that he has gotten a lot our of what he has this year. Getting that victory was very important and yes the coaching staff should get credit. That was a game that especially in Madison, WIS wins something like 90% or better of the time. Going 4-2 in the stretch of 6 games in 13 days is pretty remarkable considering the overall situation.
In the past, one of the big weaknesses was how the team did in close games. Last year, for example, they were 5-12 in games decided by 5 pts or less He was blamed a lot for that. This year 6-3 so far
Look, if it happens all the time, coaching can have something to do about it. But if pretty much a one off situation, pretty hard to. Both of the situations discussed fell into the one off category.
In general, in the BIG, we are at a talent disadvantage against almost everyone, Throw in that currently we are down to only 8 guys even suited up with one Frosh that had barely seen the floor and another that had shown times he could not stay on the floor for more than 5 minutes without fouling out coupled with a schedule of 6 games in 13 days, having everyone tired and not being able to practice and correct things and some leeway is in order.
Do I think that a game against MICH was winnable? under normal circumstances yes but they were anything but normal circumstances, It was the 5th game in 10 days, There was only one day between games and they had not gotten back to town till something like 2:30 AM the day before so extremely limited time to recover, practice and prepare (don't forget classes). Everything was being juggled. So while the loss was hard, it was also somewhat understandable. I felt it would be the most difficult game of the stretch as it was the most likely game for the physical and mental fatigue to catch up with them so it was most likely for a letdown. So while disappointing, it was also pretty understandable. So while others here might not be willing to cut them some slack, I believe that they should get some for that game.
And the combination of the things about coupled with the game being in Madison and their handling of the end of the game, coaching staff definitely deserves credit for that one
It was bang bang and pretty hard to get a timeout called at that time. Refs were focused on what was going on on the floor. Also would have allowed WIS to get set up reducing chances. It was the end of first half and they had already called the use it or lose it timeout
Just before or after midnight after a tough late game loss? From IA likely bus as it would have been even longer if they had to take bus to airport and another bus from the airport to get back to Evanston. Ever been on one of those over the road buses? Even on a plane (which would have been about an hour after packing in and out of a bus, Pretty hard to do much. Might get some one on one talk with some players but even that would be pretty tough
"In general, in the BIG, we are at a talent disadvantage against almost everyone"
No we are not.
We beat Wisconsin twice because we are better than them.
Starting with "more talent."
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