Nance/Young

PurpleWhiteBoy

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On a different note, Pete Nance didn't do much for #1 rated North Carolina as they went down in defeat to unbeaten Iowa State. I think we can take full credit for that. Our secret scrimmage with the Cyclones toughened them up!
 
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AdamOnFirst

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Okay, thats your take. You are claiming he was overmatched against a guy that went 1 for 13 from the floor.

Here's what Duke's coach had to say about his centers defense against Xavier's leading scorer...

“Yeah definitely some adversity came our way with that. Ryan [Young] and Dereck [Lively] getting two fouls early. But the job they did on Nunge, I mean, 1-of-13, he’s a great player... And Dereck’s response on defense, Ryan’s physicality, I mean that’s a big-time thing. He’s their leading scorer, he’s been averaging 17.I... we talked about the defense collectively, but without those two guys guarding him, it would’ve been a long night for us. So really proud of the bigs and their effort."

For the record, Young played 21 minutes, was 3 of 5 from the floor, 2 of 2 on FTs, 5 offensive rebounds, 1 defensive rebounds. No assists, 2 turnovers. The turnovers came at 15:00 in the first half and 13:00 in the 2nd half. The sequence you described did not happen.

And the guy he was guarding (Xavier's star center) was 1 for 13 from the floor, for 5 points, with 5 rebounds and 2 turnovers in 33 minutes.

So if he Young has a bad game against Gonzaga, go ahead and say he's terrible, but don't be making s^%@ up .
Wow, you brought receipts
 

clarificationcat

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Okay, thats your take. You are claiming he was overmatched against a guy that went 1 for 13 from the floor.

Here's what Duke's coach had to say about his centers defense against Xavier's leading scorer...

“Yeah definitely some adversity came our way with that. Ryan [Young] and Dereck [Lively] getting two fouls early. But the job they did on Nunge, I mean, 1-of-13, he’s a great player... And Dereck’s response on defense, Ryan’s physicality, I mean that’s a big-time thing. He’s their leading scorer, he’s been averaging 17.I... we talked about the defense collectively, but without those two guys guarding him, it would’ve been a long night for us. So really proud of the bigs and their effort."

For the record, Young played 21 minutes, was 3 of 5 from the floor, 2 of 2 on FTs, 5 offensive rebounds, 1 defensive rebounds. No assists, 2 turnovers. The turnovers came at 15:00 in the first half and 13:00 in the 2nd half. The sequence you described did not happen.

And the guy he was guarding (Xavier's star center) was 1 for 13 from the floor, for 5 points, with 5 rebounds and 2 turnovers in 33 minutes.

So if he Young has a bad game against Gonzaga, go ahead and say he's terrible, but don't be making s^%@ up .
I watched the first half and part of the 2nd half. When I watched, Nunge missed wide open shots when Young was guarding him. He took 6 3's because I thought Young was slow to get out on him. If the game plan was to encourage him to take wide open 3's (maybe it was), then Young did his job. Young is pretty good post defender so he did fine in the post.

And the turnover in the 2nd half was a steal for a breakway layup. I guess it couldn't be back to back plays since Duke would get the ball back after the steal and layup, so there was one Duke possession in between the steal and Young fouling a guard driving to the basket for a 3-point play. He got pulled and I stopped watching after that. That sequence made me think he was overmatched. I have only seen him play today and against Kansas (he had one defensive rebound in that game as well). In those 2 games, in 41 minutes he has 0 assists, 2 defensive rebounds, 0 blocks, 1 steal and 6 turnovers. I will try to watch their next game and will have an open mind.
 

HawkCat

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I watched the first half and part of the 2nd half. When I watched, Nunge missed wide open shots when Young was guarding him. He took 6 3's because I thought Young was slow to get out on him. If the game plan was to encourage him to take wide open 3's (maybe it was), then Young did his job. Young is pretty good post defender so he did fine in the post.

And the turnover in the 2nd half was a steal for a breakway layup. I guess it couldn't be back to back plays since Duke would get the ball back after the steal and layup, so there was one Duke possession in between the steal and Young fouling a guard driving to the basket for a 3-point play. He got pulled and I stopped watching after that. That sequence made me think he was overmatched. I have only seen him play today and against KI will try to watch their next game and will have an open mind.
I have watched at least three or four full Duke games with Young. I think you are extrapolating from very limited data sets.
 

Catreporter

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Nance 7 points in 32 minutes as UNC goes down today. That is some of the maddening inconsistency we saw from him at NU. Not rooting against him at all. Really thought he was a class act at NU but there is a reason he wasn't going to be drafted.
 

HawkCat

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Nance 7 points in 32 minutes as UNC goes down today. That is some of the maddening inconsistency we saw from him at NU. Not rooting against him at all. Really thought he was a class act at NU but there is a reason he wasn't going to be drafted.
Actually, he had nine points, eight rebounds, and three assists on 3-6 shooting. Hardly a terrible or maddening performance on a talented team.
 
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Catreporter

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I didn't say it was terrible but Pete just didn't deliver when the chips were down at NU more often than not. Not saying I wouldn't have loved it if he stayed at NU. We could use his scoring, but he graduated, hoped to go pro and then decided he needed more work on his game in perhaps a different, more complementary role. It will be interesting to see if he ever gets to the NBA.
 

clarificationcat

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I have watched at least three or four full Duke games with Young. I think you are extrapolating from very limited data sets.
Understood. They are the only games I have seen and those are the two best teams they have played. Neither game changed my opinion of his overall game. In my opinion, he is a poor help defender and very poor rim protector and that is more apparent against the better teams. He also turns the ball over at a fairly high rate against more athletic teams. We desperately need his low-post offense and offensive rebounding but we are a better defensive team with Verhoeven and Nicholson.
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

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Understood. They are the only games I have seen and those are the two best teams they have played. Neither game changed my opinion of his overall game. In my opinion, he is a poor help defender and very poor rim protector and that is more apparent against the better teams. He also turns the ball over at a fairly high rate against more athletic teams. We desperately need his low-post offense and offensive rebounding but we are a better defensive team with Verhoeven and Nicholson.
I apologize for being a little harsh earlier. I actually agree with you that really big centers and athletic leapers are/were often too much for Ryan Young defensively. Kofi Cockburn and Zach Edey come to mind as examples of "too big.". But that doesn't make him a bad defender, in my opinion.

I also agree that Nicholson brings elements defensively that Young could not - intimidation, for one.
 
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clarificationcat

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I apologize for being a little harsh earlier. I actually agree with you that really big centers and athletic leapers are/were often too much for Ryan Young defensively. Kofi Cockburn and Zach Edey come to mind as examples of "too big.". But that doesn't make him a bad defender, in my opinion.

I also agree that Nicholson brings elements defensively that Young could not - intimidation, for one.
No worries. I should have watched the whole game. My issue with Young against more athletic teams is more about help defense, protecting the rim and defensive rebounding. I don’t expect him to stop Edey when he guards him. Gonzaga couldn’t stop him. I will be interested to see how he does with all of the cutters to the rim and on switches. I was really shocked at how good Purdue’s freshmen guards were and how well they ran their offense. It seemed like everyone on the court for them could score and they attacked the rim a lot. Duke’s guards are much better than Gonzaga’s so they may be able to cut off penetration. Should be a fun game.
 
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Secho99

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Thanks. I believe they both absolutely made the right move. Nance was light years better than our next player last year, and needed more exposure if he has a shot at the NBA. Even if he doesn’t make it, he will likely play in at least a final 8.
I’m not sold on Carolina. KenPom has them 22nd right now, and while they had an amazing run last year these are mostly the same guys who were only an 8 seed going into the tourney. They’re certainly much better than us and will be in the tourney again, but I wouldn’t be shocked if they don’t make it out of the first weekend.
 

GatoLouco

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I’m not sold on Carolina. KenPom has them 22nd right now, and while they had an amazing run last year these are mostly the same guys who were only an 8 seed going into the tourney. They’re certainly much better than us and will be in the tourney again, but I wouldn’t be shocked if they don’t make it out of the first weekend.
NC and Duke have not been even remotely impressive so far. That’s a bit surprising, especially for NC and being the #1 team to start the season in most polls.

But that’s not baffling. It’s very early in the season. Team chemistry is a weird animal and often things only click later in the season. Last year is case in point for the ACC teams from that stand point.

In my mind it’s more likely Duke has a worse than expected season than NC. Duke is younger than the seasoned core of NC.
 

Fitzphile

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Nance and Young both had just four points in their team's losses today.
Young contributed much more than Nance. He does what he does, doesn't make mistakes, and is well ahead of Lively at this point: poor kid fouled out without scoring.

Painter has another typical Purdue team, tough kids, spread the floor, hit 3's and work it inside. Edey is a monster.
 
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PurpleWhiteBoy

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Nance and Young both had just four points in their team's losses today.
Carolina lost 103-101 in quadruple OT to Alabama...
Nance had 4 points on 1 - 4 shooting.... 25 minutes, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 5 turnovers...
Carolina's two starting guards played 108 minutes between them and took 60 shots.

Ryan Young on the other hand, faced a familiar foe - Purdue's Zach Edey. As expected, that didn't go well.
Duke's #2-ranked freshman center Dereck Lively got the start and was eaten alive. Young came off the bench to provide dessert.
Lively played 22 minutes and scored no points on 3 shots. 5 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 1 turnover, 5 fouls.
Young 15 minutes, 1-3 from the floor, 4 points, 4 rebounds , 3 fouls, nothing else.
Edey 32 minutes, 7 of 13 from field, 7 of 8 FTs, 21 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 foul, nothing else.

Interestingly, Purdue played 6'10" Caleb Furst almost half of the game next to 7'4" Zach Edey as the Boilers dominated Duke. They also had two freshmen starting at guard. Painter's team was undefeated, but unranked coming into this week and crushed both Duke and Gonzaga.
 
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clarificationcat

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Young contributed much more than Nance. He does what he does, doesn't make mistakes, and is well ahead of Lively at this point: poor kid fouled out without scoring.

Painter has another typical Purdue team, tough kids, spread the floor, hit 3's and work it inside. Edey is a monster.
He makes lots of mistakes. It's fine if you like old timey basketball players but let's not ignore all of his weaknesses. As I pointed out in the last game, he got his pass stolen for a layup and then fouled a guard for a 3-point play. I think those qualify as fairly significant mistakes. Today he had 2 fouls in about 4 minutes in the first half and had to leave the game. I thought he did a pretty good job guarding Edey but he got pinned a couple of times on defense and couldn't contest layups by other players. And he lost Furst on a fastbreak and gave up a 5-foot jumper. He is a great offensive rebounder but a below average defensive rebounder against better opponents, which means he gives up offensive rebounds when he is on the floor. Against Kansas, Xavier and Purdue he has 3 defensive rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 assists and 6 turnovers in 56 minutes. That's really bad for your center. Nance had a bad game today but in 25 minutes had more defensive rebounds (5), blocked shots (3) and assists (3) than Young had in those 3 games. And Young is not way ahead of Lively defensively. Lively is a much better rim protector and help defender. He had 2 steals and 2 blocked shots today. I know those things aren't as obvious as an offensive rebound but they are usually more important in helping your team win.
 
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ballerog711

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Biggest stat was the Alabama center caught the lob over Nance for the lead. Nance then threw the inbounds pass away.

All that happened in 1 minute
 
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AdamOnFirst

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Carolina lost 103-101 in quadruple OT to Alabama...
Nance had 4 points on 1 - 4 shooting.... 25 minutes, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 5 turnovers...
Carolina's two starting guards played 108 minutes between them and took 60 shots.

Ryan Young on the other hand, faced a familiar foe - Purdue's Zach Edey. As expected, that didn't go well.
Duke's #2-ranked freshman center Dereck Lively got the start and was eaten alive. Young came off the bench to provide dessert.
Lively played 22 minutes and scored no points on 3 shots. 5 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 1 turnover, 5 fouls.
Young 15 minutes, 1-3 from the floor, 4 points, 4 rebounds , 3 fouls, nothing else.
Edey 32 minutes, 7 of 13 from field, 7 of 8 FTs, 21 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 foul, nothing else.

Interestingly, Purdue played 6'10" Caleb Furst almost half of the game next to 7'4" Zach Edey as the Boilers dominated Duke. They also had two freshmen starting at guard. Painter's team was undefeated, but unranked coming into this week and crushed both Duke and Gonzaga.
I’d just like to compliment the bit of wit sprinkled into this write up
 

Purple Pile Driver

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He makes lots of mistakes. It's fine if you like old timey basketball players but let's not ignore all of his weaknesses. As I pointed out in the last game, he got his pass stolen for a layup and then fouled a guard for a 3-point play. I think those qualify as fairly significant mistakes. Today he had 2 fouls in about 4 minutes in the first half and had to leave the game. I thought he did a pretty good job guarding Edey but he got pinned a couple of times on defense and couldn't contest layups by other players. And he lost Furst on a fastbreak and gave up a 5-foot jumper. He is a great offensive rebounder but a below average defensive rebounder against better opponents, which means he gives up offensive rebounds when he is on the floor. Against Kansas, Xavier and Purdue he has 3 defensive rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 assists and 6 turnovers in 56 minutes. That's really bad for your center. Nance had a bad game today but in 25 minutes had more defensive rebounds (5), blocked shots (3) and assists (3) than Young had in those 3 games. And Young is not way ahead of Lively defensively. Lively is a much better rim protector and help defender. He had 2 steals and 2 blocked shots today. I know those things aren't as obvious as an offensive rebound but they are usually more important in helping your team win.
It’s amazing to me, some people can’t acknowledge the obvious deficiencies. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately for everyone involved, RY is not Kevin McHale.
 

GatoLouco

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It’s amazing to me, some people can’t acknowledge the obvious deficiencies. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately for everyone involved, RY is not Kevin McHale.
You are 100% correct. But, at the same time, sometimes the write ups of Young's deficiencies make it seem like other 6'10 guys are all super mobile, keep up with guards on pick and rolls easily, don't allow a dude like Edey to score, etc, etc.
 
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PurpleWhiteBoy

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It’s amazing to me, some people can’t acknowledge the obvious deficiencies. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately for everyone involved, RY is not Kevin McHale.
Who are these people that can't acknowledge Ryan Young's deficiencies as a basketball player?
Lets go find them because they certainly don't post on this board...

I think this thread is intended to report and discuss the present, not the past, so lets keep doing that.
 

Purple Pile Driver

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Who are these people that can't acknowledge Ryan Young's deficiencies as a basketball player?
Lets go find them because they certainly don't post on this board...

I think this thread is intended to report and discuss the present, not the past, so lets keep doing that.
PWB, the thread is discussing the present. That stat line is for recent games for RY and Nance was provided. I just think the story from the past and the present is the same story. RY struggles on defense whether it was his time at NU (past)!ot his time at Duke ( present). Doesn’t make him a bad player or mean he wouldn’t be useful here or to Duke.
 
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clarificationcat

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Biggest stat was the Alabama center caught the lob over Nance for the lead. Nance then threw the inbounds pass away.

All that happened in 1 minute
Biggest stat was the Alabama center caught the lob over Nance for the lead. Nance then threw the inbounds pass away.

All that happened in 1 minute
Biggest stat was the Alabama center caught the lob over Nance for the lead. Nance then threw the inbounds pass away.

All that happened in 1 minute
You are 100% correct. But, at the same time, sometimes the write ups of Young's deficiencies make it seem like other 6'10 guys are all super mobile, keep up with guards on pick and rolls easily, don't allow a dude like Edey to score, etc, etc.

PWB, the thread is discussing the present. That stat line is for recent games for RY and Nance was provided. I just think the story from the past and the present is the same story. RY struggles on defense whether it was his time at NU (past)!ot his time at Duke ( present). Doesn’t make him a bad player or mean he wouldn’t be useful here or to Duke.
I was responding to a post about how Young apparently played another solid game yesterday. I didn't post that on my own. I didn't feel the need to comment on his performance yesterday. I root for him. I watched the game yesterday and thought he was a nonfactor in a game in which Duke got beaten pretty badly. He didn't do anything in the first half and played about 5 minutes in the 2nd half when the game was still in doubt. He had 4 rebounds, 2 of which were in the last minute or so when the game was long over. Not a big deal. Just feel like he gets a pass when Nance always gets called out. Not sure why folks seem to take pleasure in Nance playing poorly. He played 4 years at NU and improved every year. When he graduated, he was a better than average B1G player. Not a go-to scorer at all but a good all-around player. He's averaging 12 points, 5 rebounds and 1.4 blocks a game and shooting over 50% from the field and over 40% from 3. I assume that's what North Carolina was hoping for when they brought him in. He's a solid complimentary piece who is a better than average 3-point shooter. He played really poorly yesterday but let's see how the rest of the season goes.
 
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GatoLouco

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Young contributed much more than Nance. He does what he does, doesn't make mistakes, and is well ahead of Lively at this point: poor kid fouled out without scoring.

Painter has another typical Purdue team, tough kids, spread the floor, hit 3's and work it inside. Edey is a monster.
Do you follow more local media and what they are saying about NC? If you do, what's the chatter?

I have not watched more than 2 partial games. But looking at the box scores, it is wild how many shots the two guards are taking. While shooting well under 40%. I mean if they were hitting it at 50%, no one would question the high volume, but, this way it's a bit perplexing and bound to raise question if Davis can coach.
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

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Big game tonight as Pete Nance faces off against best buddy Miller Kopp. Tarheels vs Hoosiers...

Will they greet each other with a hug at center court or will we see something more European?
 
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hoosboot

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Western or more Eastern European? Love is love
Ryan Young has looked physically overmatched, but still solid nonetheless so far in Duke's game against OSU. Surprisingly solid mtm defense, took a big charge, a bunch of little things that help at the margins for a team with championship aspirations. Just a really smart basketball player who is a terrific complimentary piece as a 6th or 7th man, but would be miscast as a first or second option on a good team.
 
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PurpleWhiteBoy

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Ryan Young has looked physically overmatched, but still solid nonetheless so far in Duke's game against OSU. Surprisingly solid mtm defense, took a big charge, a bunch of little things that help at the margins for a team with championship aspirations. Just a really smart basketball player who is a terrific complimentary piece as a 6th or 7th man, but would be miscast as a first or second option on a good team.
Nice game for Young today.

22 minutes, 10 points, 3 offensive rebounds, 2 defensive rebounds, 2 assist, 2 turnovers, 3 of 4 from the field, 4 of 4 from the free throw line.

And his team won.

Dick Vitale singing his praises toward the end of the game on national tv.
 

hoosboot

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Meanwhile the NC guards are out there making the Buie/Audige combo look like the most poised back court in the country
Nance has been pretty decent, too. 13 and 7 in the first 30 minutes, but UNC isn't moving the ball nearly as well as Duke did. 4 assists with 3 minutes left in the game is criminal. There are two individual players on Indiana who have as many assists as the entire UNC team.

EDIT: Finished with 15 and 12, but couldn't hit a 3 to save his life. Still, looked like a much more polished basketball player than his teammates. The UNC guards were absolutely brutal. 3 assists to 5 turnovers and 9 for 27 shooting. The entire team had 5 assists.
 
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PurpleWhiteBoy

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Saturday action...

Miller Kopp has 13 of the Hoosiers 24 first half points for the Hoosiers against Rutgers.
He's 3 of 5 from 3, but Rutgers leads 31-24.

Further east, Ryan Young came off the bench to contribute 6 points on 2 of 2 from the floor and the free throw line. He also has 3 rebounds and 2 blocks. Its halftime and Duke leads BC 35-23.
 

Purple Pile Driver

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Saturday action...

Miller Kopp has 13 of the Hoosiers 24 first half points for the Hoosiers against Rutgers.
He's 3 of 5 from 3, but Rutgers leads 31-24.

Further east, Ryan Young came off the bench to contribute 6 points on 2 of 2 from the floor and the free throw line. He also has 3 rebounds and 2 blocks. Its halftime and Duke leads BC 35-23.
Cool
 

Dugan15

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Saturday action...

Miller Kopp has 13 of the Hoosiers 24 first half points for the Hoosiers against Rutgers.
He's 3 of 5 from 3, but Rutgers leads 31-24.

Further east, Ryan Young came off the bench to contribute 6 points on 2 of 2 from the floor and the free throw line. He also has 3 rebounds and 2 blocks. Its halftime and Duke leads BC 35-23.
At this moment, Ryan Young shooting 71% from the field this year.
 
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NUera

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They are gone. Good luck to them. Now let's talk NU basketball because they obviously don't give a hoot about us. Promote Purple!!!
I’m sure they do care - they just care about their careers more, and at the moment NU athletics are an albatross for anyone not named Skoronski (and he’s about to jump ship too).