Nickel v. 4-3

[NUCat320]

Is there any chance that the 4-2-5 becomes NU's 'base' defense this year?

I keep reading (over the last day or so, anyway) that it's Walker and Smith and who knows at the LB spot, and that Harris is an nfl guy and that the DBs have spectacular depth. So, any chance we see Henry creep a bit closer to the line, Van Hoose (among the surest-tackling db's I've seen) move inside, and Westphal or Hartage or another DB on the field more? It seems a natural fit, anyway.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Is there any chance that the 4-2-5 becomes NU's 'base' defense this year?

I keep reading (over the last day or so, anyway) that it's Walker and Smith and who knows at the LB spot, and that Harris is an nfl guy and that the DBs have spectacular depth. So, any chance we see Henry creep a bit closer to the line, Van Hoose (among the surest-tackling db's I've seen) move inside, and Westphal or Hartage or another DB on the field more? It seems a natural fit, anyway.

I'm no coach, 320, but it doesn't seem implausible that this would be a useful look to employ from time to time, depending on the opponent.

 

[shakes3858]

Is there any chance that the 4-2-5 becomes NU's 'base' defense this year?

I keep reading (over the last day or so, anyway) that it's Walker and Smith and who knows at the LB spot, and that Harris is an nfl guy and that the DBs have spectacular depth. So, any chance we see Henry creep a bit closer to the line, Van Hoose (among the surest-tackling db's I've seen) move inside, and Westphal or Hartage or another DB on the field more? It seems a natural fit, anyway.

You could run a 4-2-5 if you take Henry and move him to the 5th DB position and make him a hybrid linebacker. Since he lost weight instead of gaining weight, that won't happen.

The increased use of a 4-2-5 base defense was a response to the spread offense and seeing more WR and speed on the field. We're going to see a lot of running heavy teams In Stanford, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Penn State isn't really a spread team either. Pretty much the 4-2-5 would be more effective as a base for Illinois and Purdue. I say lets just stick with a 4-3 and use the nickel package on passing downs

 

[corbi296]

It's possible but as Shakes indicated it will depend on the opponent. You won't see that alignment against a power running team like Stanford. Heck, against them you are more likely to see a 5-2-4. Ultimately, I am confident that a third starting linebacker will emerge out of the group of younger players that is contending from that spot. I think it will be one of returning players but would not be shocked if Vitale emerges to grab the spot as true freshman.

 

[shakes3858]

It's possible but as Shakes indicated it will depend on the opponent. You won't see that alignment against a power running team like Stanford. Heck, against them you are more likely to see a 5-2-4. Ultimately, I am confident that a third starting linebacker will emerge out of the group of younger players that is contending from that spot. I think it will be one of returning players but would not be shocked if Vitale emerges to grab the spot as true freshman.

If it'll be a true freshman it'll be the Fox.

 

[Hungry Jack]

If it'll be a true freshman it'll be the Fox.

Problem is Fox profiles as a MLB, where Walker and Prater sit ahead of him. Vitale is an OLB and thus has s better shot at an opening.

With Jango and Fisher coming next year, I like the stable of our young LBs over the next few years

 

[shakes3858]

Problem is Fox profiles as a MLB, where Walker and Prater sit ahead of him. Vitale is an OLB and thus has s better shot at an opening.

With Jango and Fisher coming next year, I like the stable of our young LBs over the next few years

If you have to play Fox in the middle then move Walker over to OLB. I'd rather see our best 3 guys on the field and figuring out the positions rather than keeping the better player off the field.

Same thing goes for skill position players on offense. If our best 5 are Jones, Vitale, Vault, Jackson, and Garrett Dickerson, then play Jones, Vault, and Vitale at WR, Jackson as RB and Dickerson at TE.

I guess it's called players formations plays.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

If you have to play Fox in the middle then move Walker over to OLB. I'd rather see our best 3 guys on the field and figuring out the positions rather than keeping the better player off the field.

Same thing goes for skill position players on offense. If our best 5 are Jones, Vitale, Vault, Jackson, and Garrett Dickerson, then play Jones, Vault, and Vitale at WR, Jackson as RB and Dickerson at TE.

I guess it's called players formations plays.

Fox reported at 245. I highly doubt he's quick enough to play BCS football right now.

 

[Cardiacagoan]

Depends on formation, down/distance, opponent and matchups. There are people that just monitor personnel and substitutions for proper matchups.

 

[shakes3858]

Fox reported at 245. I highly doubt he's quick enough to play BCS football right now.

What does that have to do with anything? Brian Urlacher played at 258. Was he quick enough to play BCS football and be an MLB? How about Rey Mauluga at 255, Rolando McCalin at 255, Brian Cushing at 249, Paul Posluszny at 241, Jerod Mayo at 250, James Laurinaitis at 248,

Do you know that Fox has lost a step putting weight on? If so, say what you know. If not, don't say he's not quick enough to play because he weighs 245. Is Dean Lowery not quick enough to play DE because he's 290?

 

[corbi296]

You're sleeping on Vitale. He is more prepared to play early.

 

[NUCat320]

If you have to play Fox in the middle then move Walker over to OLB. I'd rather see our best 3 guys on the field and figuring out the positions rather than keeping the better player off the field.

Same thing goes for skill position players on offense. If our best 5 are Jones, Vitale, Vault, Jackson, and Garrett Dickerson, then play Jones, Vault, and Vitale at WR, Jackson as RB and Dickerson at TE.

I guess it's called players formations plays.

Players-formations-plays (which, admittedly, is more of an offensive construct) is why I think the staff should at least consider 4-2-5 as the base.

Gary Patterson has been in base 4-2-5 with starting SS-FS-WS since at least 2000, well before everybody was in spread setups.

(And yes, PFP is why I want to see nu play 3 TEs in various spots. All three are better, unless these frosh WRs are as advertised today.)

 

[gocatsgo2003]

What does that have to do with anything? Brian Urlacher played at 258. Was he quick enough to play BCS football and be an MLB? How about Rey Mauluga at 255, Rolando McCalin at 255, Brian Cushing at 249, Paul Posluszny at 241, Jerod Mayo at 250, James Laurinaitis at 248,

Do you know that Fox has lost a step putting weight on? If so, say what you know. If not, don't say he's not quick enough to play because he weighs 245. Is Dean Lowery not quick enough to play DE because he's 290?

Brian Urlacher is a certified freak of nature and those guys all had the benefit of years in a collegiate strength program. They weren't 18 year olds learning how to carry that weight and grow into their bodies for the first time.

 

[shakes3858]

Brian Urlacher is a certified freak of nature and those guys all had the benefit of years in a collegiate strength program. They weren't 18 year olds learning how to carry that weight and grow into their bodies for the first time.

Ummm... Nathan Fox is a certified freak of nature. He's like Brian Bozworth (265)... with a brain. Here's proof on his freakish athletic ability.

 

[shakes3858]

You're sleeping on Vitale. He is more prepared to play early.

I hope Vitale is a 1st team all big ten linebacker this year, but from watching the highlight tapes, I think Vitale is very good and Fox is UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Ummm... Nathan Fox is a certified freak of nature. He's like Brian Bozworth (265)... with a brain. Here's proof on his freakish athletic ability.

View embedded media

First, that seemed very similar to Turk's constant posting of Flat Earth videos. I think I had a PTSD flashback.

Second, he's nowhere near 265 on those videos... which is incidentally about the weight I heard he actually reported at.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I

First, that seemed very similar to Turk's constant posting of Flat Earth videos. I think I had a PTSD flashback.

Second, he's nowhere near 265 on those videos... which is incidentally about the weight I heard he actually reported at.

I take it you mean 245? He would have had to eat at the Dog & Suds 5 times a day to balloon to 265.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Comparing Fox to Urlacher is ridiculous.

Fox went from 220 to 245 in his senior year. That's a huge weight gain without being in a D1 college weight program. He's probably considerably overweight relative to his mobility needs.

 

[NJCat83588]

Comparing Fox to Urlacher is ridiculous.

Fox went from 220 to 245 in his senior year. That's a huge weight gain without being in a D1 college weight program. He's probably considerably overweight relative to his mobility needs.

If he is being compared to Bosworth, hope it wasn't "better living through chemistry"......

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I


I take it you mean 245? He would have had to eat at the Dog & Suds 5 times a day to balloon to 265.

Listed at 245. Shakes put 265 in his Boz comp.

 

[NURoseBowl]

I hope Vitale is a 1st team all big ten linebacker this year, but from watching the highlight tapes, I think Vitale is very good and Fox is UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE.

The guy just blows people up; very anxious to see him in Evanston.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The guy just blows people up; very anxious to see him in Evanston.

Sounds like Fox blew himself up on too much pizza.

 

[shakes3858]

Comparing Fox to Urlacher is ridiculous.

Fox went from 220 to 245 in his senior year. That's a huge weight gain without being in a D1 college weight program. He's probably considerably overweight relative to his mobility needs.

Yes, comparing a sure NFL hall of famer to a kid that hasn't played a snap of college football is ridiculous... unless we're talking about Urlacher's high school tape. That's why we're not comparing the two. What I am doing is saying that being 245 lbs or over doesn't mean you are too slow to play MLB at this level. So let's get some real information: What's Fox's 40 time? Shuttle time? Show me any measurable athletic skill and compare it to what he was at 222. If you don't have that, then what are we going on? I'd even take an "I've seen him running around and he looks a step slow and sluggish." All I've got is he's 245, no way he's fast enough. Maybe he's been working with an elite trainer and nutritionist in Texas to get ready and he's put on 25 lbs of muscle and has worked on his speed. I don't know all I know from GCG is "Fox reported at 245. I highly doubt he's quick enough to play BCS football right now." I don't see why 245 will keep Fox from being quick enough to play BCS football. He might be better if he lost 10-15 lbs. He might be worse. Who knows? Give me data in form of numbers, observations, or tape.

 

[Deeringfish]

Yes, comparing a sure NFL hall of famer to a kid that hasn't played a snap of college football is ridiculous... unless we're talking about Urlacher's high school tape. That's why we're not comparing the two. What I am doing is saying that being 245 lbs or over doesn't mean you are too slow to play MLB at this level. So let's get some real information: What's Fox's 40 time? Shuttle time? Show me any measurable athletic skill and compare it to what he was at 222. If you don't have that, then what are we going on? I'd even take an "I've seen him running around and he looks a step slow and sluggish." All I've got is he's 245, no way he's fast enough. Maybe he's been working with an elite trainer and nutritionist in Texas to get ready and he's put on 25 lbs of muscle and has worked on his speed. I don't know all I know from GCG is "Fox reported at 245. I highly doubt he's quick enough to play BCS football right now." I don't see why 245 will keep Fox from being quick enough to play BCS football. He might be better if he lost 10-15 lbs. He might be worse. Who knows? Give me data in form of numbers, observations, or tape.

He sure looks like a heat seeking missile on the film.
Is there any good reason Fox might put on that kind of weight from one season to the next? It seems funny to me that a guy smart enough to go to NU would get sloppy about his weight coming into camp. I would think he would be in the best shape of his life expecting to be pushed and wanting to impress.

 

[Cardiacagoan]

Yes, comparing a sure NFL hall of famer to a kid that hasn't played a snap of college football is ridiculous... unless we're talking about Urlacher's high school tape. That's why we're not comparing the two. What I am doing is saying that being 245 lbs or over doesn't mean you are too slow to play MLB at this level. So let's get some real information: What's Fox's 40 time? Shuttle time? Show me any measurable athletic skill and compare it to what he was at 222. If you don't have that, then what are we going on? I'd even take an "I've seen him running around and he looks a step slow and sluggish." All I've got is he's 245, no way he's fast enough. Maybe he's been working with an elite trainer and nutritionist in Texas to get ready and he's put on 25 lbs of muscle and has worked on his speed. I don't know all I know from GCG is "Fox reported at 245. I highly doubt he's quick enough to play BCS football right now." I don't see why 245 will keep Fox from being quick enough to play BCS football. He might be better if he lost 10-15 lbs. He might be worse. Who knows? Give me data in form of numbers, observations, or tape.

I don't care about shuttle times or 40 times. I want to see how he looks on the field before we put his number up in the stadium.

 

[hdhntr1]

He sure looks like a heat seeking missile on the film.
Is there any good reason Fox might put on that kind of weight from one season to the next? It seems funny to me that a guy smart enough to go to NU would get sloppy about his weight coming into camp. I would think he would be in the best shape of his life expecting to be pushed and wanting to impress.

If he came in over and it was "soft" weight, I would think much of it would be lost in couple weeks of camp. If it was muscle, he would still lose a few.

 

[shakes3858]

I don't care about shuttle times or 40 times. I want to see how he looks on the field before we put his number up in the stadium.

True... But I won't get that until Sept 5th so... Until then any information besides I think he's too fat for BCS football would be great

 

[60657Cat]

If it'll be a true freshman it'll be the Fox.

It really really won't.

 

[DaCat]

Help me rank our LBs regardless of position. I would say:

1. Walker
2. Smith
3. Prater
4. Walsh
5. Cam Queiro
6. Hall
7. Jones

True frosh:
1. Fox
2. Vitale
3. Short (inj)

So if a true frosh were to play he'd have to be really special and ready to play. My eyes tell me that Fox is going to be special, and schools like Oregon agree, but it's sounding like he may not be ready if he is overweight. I still hope he was a workout warrior and put on muscle mass while maintaining quickness. A 245 lb missile in the middle like Fox might even warrant moving Walker to the outside eventually. We shall see.

 

[corbi296]

Besides Walker and Smith, what is your ranking of existing players based on? None of those guys have played much if at all. Hard to tell on those guys unless you are at practice.

 

[phatcat]

Ummm... Nathan Fox is a certified freak of nature. He's like Brian Bozworth (265)... with a brain. Here's proof on his freakish athletic ability.

View embedded media

Dude can really close on the football. Kinda hard to follow some of the plays (the replays helped!) so couldn't see how he sheds blocks, etc. Thanks for posting the highlights Shakes

 

[Hungry Jack]

Is McGee still at safety? His weight is 220

It's possible but as Shakes indicated it will depend on the opponent. You won't see that alignment against a power running team like Stanford. Heck, against them you are more likely to see a 5-2-4. Ultimately, I am confident that a third starting linebacker will emerge out of the group of younger players that is contending from that spot. I think it will be one of returning players but would not be shocked if Vitale emerges to grab the spot as true freshman.

Last year's 2* special, Jared McGee (who was by some accolades was one of the top DBs in Texas), was mentioned recently for his Kenosha performance. He's listed at 215, but I heard he might be bigger than that. He might be a hybrid type to play the Jimmy Hall LB.

 

[60657Cat]

Is McGee still at safety? His weight is 220


Last year's 2* special, Jared McGee (who was by some accolades was one of the top DBs in Texas), was mentioned recently for his Kenosha performance. He's listed at 215, but I heard he might be bigger than that. He might be a hybrid type to play the Jimmy Hall LB.

He's still a safety, but yeah, he could play the Brad Phillips (Old School!) role.

 

[corbi296]

I hope Vitale is a 1st team all big ten linebacker this year, but from watching the highlight tapes, I think Vitale is very good and Fox is UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE.

Check out Inside NU's interview of Fitz/Hankwitz. When asked which freshmen will play early, Hank mentions only one freshman linebacker and that is Vitale. I am not surprised. You will see Vitale vs. Stanford

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Check out Inside NU's interview of Fitz/Hankwitz. When asked which freshmen will play early, Hank mentions only one freshman linebacker and that is Vitale. I am not surprised. You will see Vitale vs. Stanford

That was just the list of players who have impressed so far in camp. He COULD play against Stanford, but I'm not so sure. He would have to be definitively be on the two-deep (Fitz's rule) and I'm not sure he would beat out Hall, Jones, and Walsh as a backup. Definitely possible, but I don't view it as nearly such a sure thing.

 

[60657Cat]

That was just the list of players who have impressed so far in camp. He COULD play against Stanford, but I'm not so sure. He would have to be definitively be on the two-deep (Fitz's rule) and I'm not sure he would beat out Hall, Jones, and Walsh as a backup. Definitely possible, but I don't view it as nearly such a sure thing.

Don't forget Cam Quiero

 

[Turk]

Help me rank our LBs regardless of position. I would say:

1. Walker
2. Smith
3. Prater
4. Walsh
5. Cam Queiro
6. Hall
7. Jones

True frosh:
1. Fox
2. Vitale
3. Short (inj)

So if a true frosh were to play he'd have to be really special and ready to play. My eyes tell me that Fox is going to be special, and schools like Oregon agree, but it's sounding like he may not be ready if he is overweight. I still hope he was a workout warrior and put on muscle mass while maintaining quickness. A 245 lb missile in the middle like Fox might even warrant moving Walker to the outside eventually. We shall see.

IMO your list is out of line. #7 is the guy.

To be sure, you and everyone seem to be focused on Prater, Walsh, Cam, etc., to fill that 3rd LB spot but in my assessment it will be Jones. And I don't believe Fox will do anything but redshirt. Vitale is a possibility just because of the open competition. Prater is probably the most athletic and actually ran good enough 100 meter time to have solid regional numbers, but I think Jones will be the guy. Walsh is a talent but I think Jones just seems the most determined of the bunch. We will find out in a few weeks. All are healthy, at least were healthy as of last week as far as I know, and all have a lot of potential.