Nonconference Schedule

[NJCat]

NU released the complete schedule today. Lewis (??) and Brown are the only teams I had not seen mentioned before.

NU starts the season playing 5 games in 10 days. Just ridiculous. A recipe for injury. And it's not clear how NU will play any Big 10 games any earlier than usual since the last OOC game is 12/30 and Big 10 seasons usually start around the New Year. They will probably ditch the byes during the conference season and play 2 games every week.


http://nusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&

 

[pschatz25]

Pretty sure Brown had been disclosed previously.

Lewis and Chicago State are new to me. And those are horrible additions to the schedule. Why are we playing a D2 program this season? Unless basically every single D1 program turned us down, I don't get it.

 

[JournCat]

The first 10 days are a horror show. Right around midterms, too. The Madison Square Garden thing was a penny wise and about 100 pounds foolish.

 

[NJCat]

Lewis and Chicago State are new to me. And those are horrible additions to the schedule. Why are we playing a D2 program this season? Unless basically every single D1 program turned us down, I don't get it.

I have no problem with Chicago State. Given the financial crisis the school is in, the athletic department badly needs the guaranteed money NU pays them to play. NU is doing its part by being a good citizen in Chicagoland.

 

[Styre]

And it's not clear how NU will play any Big 10 games any earlier than usual since the last OOC game is 12/30 and Big 10 seasons usually start around the New Year.

You can fit at least one game in between Christmas and the Brown game, I suppose.

 

[NURoseBowl]

I have no problem with Chicago State. Given the financial crisis the school is in, the athletic department badly needs the guaranteed money NU pays them to play. NU is doing its part by being a good citizen in Chicagoland.

You are right about that, Your Fitzness . . . but I don't think the committee considers that in March.

 

[Styre]

RPI/KenPom for each non-conference opponent:

Loyola (MD): 212/227
St. Peter's: 130/95
Creighton: 26/28
La Salle (neutral): 137/140
Texas Tech (neutral): 123/41
OR Boston College (neutral): 219/173
Sacred Heart: 304/301
Georgia Tech (road): 106/77
Chicago State: 317/335
Valparaiso: 71/104
DePaul (road): 236/184
Lewis: N/A
Oklahoma (road): 171/65
Brown: 285/277

Last year, when RPI was the only rating officially considered by the committee, this would have been a dreadful schedule. But now, with 5 of KenPom's top 100, it's not bad. Hopefully we'll get Texas Tech in our second game in CT. Beating Georgia Tech and/or Oklahoma on the road would definitely help the resume as well.

 

[ashley0623]

I've noticed the number of non-D1 games seem to be creeping up across the board this summer as schedules get released. Not sure what that's indicative of.

I like that we're doing a favor for Chicago St. Good stuff. Much rather do Chicago St than Texas-Pan American, MEAC, SWAC, etc. On an odd note, DePaul's played a couple road games @Chicago State this decade.

Creighton, Valpo, @DePaul should be fun home/local games.

 

[Medill90]

I like that we're doing a favor for Chicago St. Good stuff.

agree

 

[NJCat]

You are right about that, Your Fitzness . . . but I don't think the committee considers that in March.

Well, Chicago State also plays Iowa, Purdue, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Northern Iowa, Marquette and Bradley, all of whom have March aspirations, so NU is in good company. As long as they don't lose!

 

[pschatz25]

I have no problem with Chicago State. Given the financial crisis the school is in, the athletic department badly needs the guaranteed money NU pays them to play. NU is doing its part by being a good citizen in Chicagoland.

I can deal with playing Chicago State, even though it's not going to do anything for our resume (if we win, and last year we nearly lost to them). It's the Lewis game that has me angry.

 

[benoitdenizetl]

I wrote on here a month or two ago that our non-con schedule was shaping up to be remarkly underwhelming, especially for a team coming off its first NCAA tourney appearance and primed to have another strong season. I was told by a couple posters to save my complaints until the entire non-con schedule was announced.

Can I complain now? I love coach C, and I hope there's a method to this seeming madness. I was hoping for a non-con schedule similar to last year's, which was strong. This schedule offers very few opportunities for good wins.

 

[rwhitney014]

I can deal with playing Chicago State, even though it's not going to do anything for our resume (if we win, and last year we nearly lost to them). It's the Lewis game that has me angry.

My guess is something else fell through and they had to fill a spot.

That said, non-D-I games don't count towards win-loss totals or RPI. So that game is actually less harmful than playing a 300+ RPI team, or the like. Assuming nothing goes haywire, it'll be dust in the wind.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Having made the NCAAs last year, I was hoping we'd get a more "marquee" ACC opponent this season than Georgia Tech. At least Virginia...

 

[NJCat]

Having made the NCAAs last year, I was hoping we'd get a more "marquee" ACC opponent this season than Georgia Tech. At least Virginia...

I was hoping for Duke at Allstate!

 

[JournCat]

I wrote on here a month or two ago that our non-con schedule was shaping up to be remarkly underwhelming, especially for a team coming off its first NCAA tourney appearance and primed to have another strong season. I was told by a couple posters to save my complaints until the entire non-con schedule was announced.

Can I complain now? I love coach C, and I hope there's a method to this seeming madness. I was hoping for a non-con schedule similar to last year's, which was strong. This schedule offers very few opportunities for good wins.

Not getting a marquee ACC team was tough, though I think most people didn't expect Wake Forest last year to make the tournament and become a quality win. I've made my peace with the soft schedule. Two huge variables we know about are the compressed schedule to open a week in December, and having to play at Allstate Arena. Then you have to account for how the team will play without the NCAA pressure and a possible letdown like the Cubs had this year. If we get through with no more than 1 or 2 losses (none of them to Chicago State or Lewis-type teams), we'll be fine.

 

[clarificationcat]

I wrote on here a month or two ago that our non-con schedule was shaping up to be remarkly underwhelming, especially for a team coming off its first NCAA tourney appearance and primed to have another strong season. I was told by a couple posters to save my complaints until the entire non-con schedule was announced.

Can I complain now? I love coach C, and I hope there's a method to this seeming madness. I was hoping for a non-con schedule similar to last year's, which was strong. This schedule offers very few opportunities for good wins.

I swear that last year there were a bunch of posts and a few articles about how weak our non-conference schedule was and that it would probably keep us from getting to the tournament.

Creighton and Butler are washes in my view. So are Wake Forest and Georgia Tech. I would expect that Oklahoma is a wash with Texas, given where Texas ended up last year and that Lunardi has Oklahoma dancing this year. Agreed that LaSalle and Texas Tech/Boston College are not close to Notre Dame and Dayton. St. Peter and Valpo, though, are much better than some of the non-conference teams from last year.

 

[NJCat]

I swear that last year there were a bunch of posts and a few articles about how weak our non-conference schedule was and that it would probably keep us from getting to the tournament.

I beg to differ. I don't recall that narrative at all. I remember kudos being passed to Phillips and Collins for their OOC scheduling. Maybe you are thinking about the 2015 slate of cupcakes.

 

[clarificationcat]

I swear that last year there were a bunch of posts and a few articles about how weak our non-conference schedule was and that it would probably keep us from getting to the tournament.

Creighton and Butler are washes in my view. So are Wake Forest and Georgia Tech. I would expect that Oklahoma is a wash with Texas, given where Texas ended up last year and that Lunardi has Oklahoma dancing this year. Agreed that LaSalle and Texas Tech/Boston College are not close to Notre Dame and Dayton. St. Peter and Valpo, though, are much better than some of the non-conference teams from last year.

I went back and looked and it wasn't as negative as I thought (except for the folks who are always negative). It wasn't very positive either, though. It was viewed as kind of soft and something that probably would't hurt our NCAA chances but wouldn't help them either.

In any event, is this year's schedule much different?

I would have been fine playing in one of the top tournaments against the big boys, if that was a possibility. I think this team would have been fine, obvioususly.

 

[NJCat]

I went back and looked and it wasn't as negative as I thought (except for the folks who are always negative). It wasn't very positive either, though. It was viewed as kind of soft and something that probably would't hurt our NCAA chances but wouldn't help them either.

In any event, is this year's schedule much different?

I would have been fine playing in one of the top tournaments against the big boys, if that was a possibility. I think this team would have been fine, obvioususly.

This year is weaker. No marque games, although the cupcakes are better than last year (Lewis excepted). NU needs to go 11-2 minimum OOC to get to the Dance again.

 

[clarificationcat]

This year is weaker. No marque games, although the cupcakes are better than last year (Lewis excepted). NU needs to go 11-2 minimum OOC to get to the Dance again.

No they don't. That's just silly. They could lose to Creighton, Oklahoma and Georgia Tech (or Valpo or Texas Tech) and go to the tournament. It's going to come down to the conference schedule again.

 

[NJCat]

No they don't. That's just silly. They could lose to Creighton, Oklahoma and Georgia Tech (or Valpo or Texas Tech) and go to the tournament. It's going to come down to the conference schedule again.

They lose those 3 games and the have zero quality wins OOC. They would need to win 12 Bigs to get to the magic 21 wins (remember, Lewis doesn't count one way or the other). Could happen but I'd be VERY surprised.

 

[clarificationcat]

They lose those 3 games and the have zero quality wins OOC. They would need to win 12 Bigs to get to the magic 21 wins (remember, Lewis doesn't count one way or the other). Could happen but I'd be VERY surprised.

I expect that at least one of Texas Tech, St. Peters, Valpo, Boston College or LaSalle would constitute a quality win. And we could win some games in the B1G tournament.

 

[NJCat]

I expect that at least one of Texas Tech, St. Peters, Valpo, Boston College or LaSalle would constitute a quality win. And we could win some games in the B1G tournament.

Time will tell. We can revisit in 7 months.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Jonah Batambuze transferred to Lewis from NU, but I don't think that's the reason we're playing them. haha

Honestly, the Lewis game isn't so horrible as what most people think. Far better to play them as a cupcake than some +300 RPI team. Also, they're a Chicago area school, so it's a fun "close proximity game". I know it'll be a big deal to the Lewis players/fans. Honestly, I like to play one game like this every year if it means dropping the Sacred Heart's from our schedule.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

This year is weaker. No marque games, although the cupcakes are better than last year (Lewis excepted). NU needs to go 11-2 minimum OOC to get to the Dance again.

I don't agree with this. A good conference record will wash out a bad non-conf schedule. A harder noncon schedule might have been beneficial but it is not a killer, especially in August.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

For RPI and SOS, the Lewis game won't count. It's a non-event. It's worse to play another RPI 300+ team than to play one D2 team. My biggest issue is the clumping of games in November and the big gap after Thanksgiving.

This is an old article but:

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2011/03/ratings_madness.html

"Because strength of schedule is so important, a team can drop in the RPI by playing an opponent with a poor record, regardless of the outcome. Some coaches, most notably Gonzaga's Mark Few, have gotten wise to this. Instead of scheduling the dregs of Division I, they play teams that are much, much worse—Division II squads that are off the radar to the RPI, which only counts games against D-I opponents. (It seems these games are ignored by the selection committee as well. In 2009, Utah got a five-seed despite having lost at home to Division II Southwest Baptist.)"

 

[ricko654321]

I don't agree with this. A good conference record will wash out a bad non-conf schedule. A harder noncon schedule might have been beneficial but it is not a killer, especially in August.

I'm with you here and disagree with Fitzy. Every year there are one or two teams that puke it up in non conf at like 7-6 or 8-5 with 1 or 2 EGREGIOUS losses, and then bounce back with strong conference season and make it into the tournament. It happens most in the ACC (or old Big East) where are tons of opportunities in conf season for quality wins. Nebraska did it at ~11-7 (I think?) in the B1G a few years back in a year our conference was very strong.

Obviously we would prefer to win 11+ games in conf, but doing worse than that certainly doesn't preclude us from contention, particularly if the B1G is stronger than it was last year.

 

[Deeringfish]

This year is weaker. No marque games, although the cupcakes are better than last year (Lewis excepted). NU needs to go 11-2 minimum OOC to get to the Dance again.

Does it help that last year Nu showed it was a competent NCAA qualifier and this year has many of the lead players back? We always complain that reputation hurts us. Is the converse true?

 

[Styre]

I'm with you here and disagree with Fitzy. Every year there are one or two teams that puke it up in non conf at like 7-6 or 8-5 with 1 or 2 EGREGIOUS losses, and then bounce back with strong conference season and make it into the tournament. It happens most in the ACC (or old Big East) where are tons of opportunities in conf season for quality wins. Nebraska did it at ~11-7 (I think?) in the B1G a few years back in a year our conference was very strong.

The point is that it improves your margin of error. If we go 11-7 or better in conference play, we'll make the tournament basically no matter what. Likewise, if we go 7-11 or worse, we'll miss the tournament no matter what. But if we're between 8-10 and 10-8, the non-conference schedule becomes a factor. So it's good to have a non-conference schedule that provides opportunities for quality wins -- this year will likely feature NU's best team of the modern era, but we shouldn't just assume they'll win 11+ conference games. All that said, however, I do think this schedule provides sufficient opportunity for quality wins, so it's something of a moot point.

 

[DaCat]

It's all moot because after we win the Big Ten it won't matter.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Not getting a marquee ACC team was tough, though I think most people didn't expect Wake Forest last year to make the tournament and become a quality win.

And last year we weren't coming off an NCAA or even an NIT season, so it makes sense to match us up with Wake Forest (who turned out better than everyone expected). But this year, I cannot understand why we drew Georgia Tech. We were tied for 6th in the B1G last season, made the semis in the conference tourney, and won the first round in the NCAA. And we're returning a veteran cast that is expected to be even better this season. Why?

Now, I guess if we're going to draw a lesser team, I'm glad it's in a season that we're the road team. It's a tall order to beat a marquee ACC team on the road and we'll have a better chance of defeating Georgia Tech. I would really like to play one of those marquee teams at home.

 

[NJCat]

And last year we weren't coming off an NCAA or even an NIT season, so it makes sense to match us up with Wake Forest (who turned out better than everyone expected). But this year, I cannot understand why we drew Georgia Tech. We were tied for 6th in the B1G last season, made the semis in the conference tourney, and won the first round in the NCAA. And we're returning a veteran cast that is expected to be even better this season. Why?

Now, I guess if we're going to draw a lesser team, I'm glad it's in a season that we're the road team. It's a tall order to beat a marquee ACC team on the road and we'll have a better chance of defeating Georgia Tech. I would really like to play one of those marquee teams at home.

Tech finished 8-10 in by far the best basketball conference. NU finished 10-8 in a down year for the Big 10. I don't see this as much of a snub. Josh Pastner is an excellent coach and NU will have their hands full in ATL.

 

[ricko654321]

The point is that it improves your margin of error. If we go 11-7 or better in conference play, we'll make the tournament basically no matter what. Likewise, if we go 7-11 or worse, we'll miss the tournament no matter what. But if we're between 8-10 and 10-8, the non-conference schedule becomes a factor. So it's good to have a non-conference schedule that provides opportunities for quality wins -- this year will likely feature NU's best team of the modern era, but we shouldn't just assume they'll win 11+ conference games. All that said, however, I do think this schedule provides sufficient opportunity for quality wins, so it's something of a moot point.

Yes, this I fully agree with. That's about exactly how I feel. I was just disagreeing with the suggestion that if we don't go 11-2 or better with this schedule we are done for.

I'd like it to be a bit tougher / more opportunity for quality wins, so it's not ideal, but I don't think this in itself will preclude us from getting into the tourney or whatever.

 

[pschatz25]

My guess is something else fell through and they had to fill a spot.

That said, non-D-I games don't count towards win-loss totals or RPI. So that game is actually less harmful than playing a 300+ RPI team, or the like. Assuming nothing goes haywire, it'll be dust in the wind.

That's a good point about the Lewis game. It's still a wasted opportunity though.

 

[NJCat]

That's a good point about the Lewis game. It's still a wasted opportunity though.

Charlie may finally score.....

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Let's not forget that scheduling non-con games is a real b*tch to do. I think Phillips and Collin's staff try very hard to get it finished, release it in a timely manner for those who have to travel back to Chicago, and still have it be somewhat productive. From what I hear, scheduling has gotten harder and harder as the years have gone by.

 

[NJCat]

Let's not forget that scheduling non-con games is a real b*tch to do. I think Phillips and Collin's staff try very hard to get it finished, release it in a timely manner for those who have to travel back to Chicago, and still have it be somewhat productive. From what I hear, scheduling has gotten harder and harder as the years have gone by.

If this is true, maybe it is time to reduce the number of OOC games. Go back to 8 or so and scheduling won't be as much of a problem. Get rid of the cupcake games that no one wants to watch. Put less stress on the student-athletes in November and December.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

If this is true, maybe it is time to reduce the number of OOC games. Go back to 8 or so and scheduling won't be as much of a problem. Get rid of the cupcake games that no one wants to watch. Put less stress on the student-athletes in November and December.

They've already upped the number of conference games. Nobody wants more than 18 conference. Now, if you mean lowering the max amount of total games by 2 or 3, I'd be down with that...but that'll NEVER happen.

 

[NJCat]

They've already upped the number of conference games. Nobody wants more than 18 conference. Now, if you mean lowering the max amount of total games by 2 or 3, I'd be down with that...but that'll NEVER happen.

Hey, ideally there'd be 26 conference games. Play everyone twice. But the reality is 18 is probably as many as they would go for. I agree with you, TV revenue is why they won't reduce the number of OOC games. But who really wants to watch NU-Lewis, except Julia and Brad?