This happens to practically every fan base, it's just human nature. Even Northwestern. Ask Io_a how lovable NU is to them. Especially since we keep insisting on holding onto their w.
Northwestern football will return to Wrigley Field in 2020 to face Wisconsin
- Thread starter BigCatFan19
- Start date
This happens to practically every fan base, it's just human nature. Even Northwestern. Ask Io_a how lovable NU is to them. Especially since we keep insisting on holding onto their w.
yep! Now if you would like to cut me a check, then I can start planning the opening game menu. However it will need to be a lot more than $600. Add another zero and your close.
I need to get something straight here. Is your hate hierarchy: Meatchicken > Boston fans > YankMes?
Where does Meatchicken fit into this order of odor?
Sorry, I was limiting it to baseball.
To be clear, I want michigag to lose every game. If they lose by 4 tds, I'm disappointed that it wasn't 5. That said, even in the depths of the DickRod era (how I miss him!), They never really had this "poor me" attitude that BloSox fans had for around 90 years.
You do know that the Sox lease expires soon. It’s not a take, if the Sox fan attendance doesn’t improve, Reinsdorf will either sell the team or start rumbling again about moving the team.
The dumbest take of all time is from oblivious Sox fans who think their biggest problem is the location of the stadium (i.e it’s in a “bad” neighborhood). It’s ridiculous but you are not alone in holding that view. The stadium has significant advantages for the right target audience. The last thing the Sox should do is try to target the same audience the Cubs attract at Wrigley. That is a losing proposition that will never succeed. The Sox should continue to target a family oriented clientele with an emhasis on attracting new fans from the Western and South suburbs because the Sox legacy fan base is old, cynical and cheap. Putting a winning team on the field will certainly help but I also have my doubts on their ability to execute on that’s Strategy. They have acquired some very good prospect from the Cubs, Red Sox and Nationals but The jury is still out on hahn’s ability to identify top talent in the draft and IFA market. The early returns are not encouraging in my opinion.
At that point everyone will be watching the games with VR and the location won't matter.
Sounds like NU fans.
Actually a big problem that Sox have is the presence of the other team up North. There are only a couple two team towns and in general one of the teams does not have the same appeal as the other. Example NY with Yankees and Mets. Yankees hugely successful and they can print money while the Mets are more of an after thought. In Chicago one is a huge beer garden tht the young flock to and the other does not have the same cache.
As far as not going when the team is as bad as it is, that is more normal than when fans flocked to Wrigley to see the lovable losers.
I don't have a problem with the location of the stadium other than being near Schaumburg it does take quite a while to get there. It takes a while to get to Wrigley as well but there is a bus direct from Schaumburg to Wrigley. Suburbs would have been better but Dailey always did get his way. Neighborhood do not really deal with so it is really not an issue. As you say, tickets cheep enough (Bleacher and 2 brews for $22 or something like that or 4 for $49 with hot dogs chips and beverages upper deck ) reasonable easy parking but it is still committing about 6 hours and this is a pretty bad team till they start really bringing guys up. When they start winning again it will help but till then they will really struggle with attendance. Still overall, I'm not sure I see a time when they are not second fiddle in Chicago. Nothing other than winning can really make them the cool kid. Well maybe if the area gentrifies and it becomes the hub of the neighborhood
The fifth oldest stadium is sort of a shock. It was the first of the new wave. THat said I think it is still only about 27years old built for $137 million (and typically teams are in stadiums for at least 50 years or more and it was recently (through 2007) renovated at a cost of $118 million which I believe the Sox paid.
Also not sure how accurate. For example Kaufman stadium opening is listed as 2009 but it was a renovation and not really a new stadium since it was formerly known as Royals stadium and opened in 1973. Also hard to justify a new stadium these days with a cost of close to $1B for a new 40K baseball stadium as $900 mill was just spent for the Mets new stadium
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I don’t disagree. The Sox will always play second fiddle to the Cubs in Chicago. That debate is over. The question for Reinsdorf or the next owner is whether they can make enough money as the second team in Chicago or move to a growing city with no baseball team like Nashville.
It is over unless the Sox start winning consistently, continued gentrification of their neighborhood and Cubs turn back to not so lovable losers. Even then it will be an uphill climb
The Cubs will always outdraw the Sox and will have a larger radio market and a much bigger TV market, especially when the Cubs start their own station. Not sure if winning will be the panacea for the Sox. Even in the year that they won it all there were very few sellouts and they had trouble drawing over 25,000 in September, when they had the best record in baseball. Face it, it's a Cubs town.
I'm going go list all of the fallacies in your post
1. The Sox stadium lease deal with the IFSA runs through 2029. Not sure what your definition of "soon" is, but mine isn't 11 years. Theoretically the Sox should be contending for a really good duration of that 11 year span, which will drive attendance (as you said) because they'll be winning divisions with the Indians having to start a rebuild, the Royals in baseball purgatory, the Tigers starting a rebuild, and the Twins being decent to not great.
2. You have no idea what the "right target audience" is. I am paid to cover the White Sox. I have developed a pretty large social media following, largely on my own, that targets the exact demographic of Sox fans that are buying into this entire rebuild - millennials who will be the ones supporting this team for the next 30 years or so. I have met with the White Sox marketing department and they have asked MY advice on how to reach out to this demographic more. They pay me to host events at the park. Rick Hahn, Frank Thomas, a half dozen of their top prospects, and next week Hawk Harrelson will come on the White Sox podcast I run because the organization knows that they have to do a better job of connecting to the coveted 25-35 year old fan. The stadium has significant advantages that draws the EXACT crowd it draws right now; either the most DIEHARD of Sox fans, or people that live in the Bridgeport/McKinley Park/ Armour Square/etc. neighborhoods. You literally cannot win this argument.
3. Armour square sucks. I don't particularly enjoy going there after working 10 hours a day, and neither do the vast majority of Sox fans. If the Sox and Cubs switched locations, who would sell out every game and whose attendance would struggle? Wrigleyville is the B1G post grad capital of the world; people from OSU, Wisconsin, IU, etc. all flock to wrigley on a nightly basis though they have no real Cubs fandom.
4. The early returns of the prospects you mentioned are incredibly encouraging; sure Giolito isn't playing to his "star ranking" for an easy analogy, but Eloy is killing the ball in AA, Zack Collins is getting on base at a .470 clip, Yoan has flashed MVP potential and is only 22, Abreu is as consistent as any hitter in baseball YoY, Lopez looks great, Cease, Hansen and Dunning are all dominating MiLB, Luis Robert is a legitimate 5 tool threat and will rocket through the system, and they have the 4th pick and a top 3-5 pick in 2019 coming up. Not every team hits on their "can't miss" prospects. See: Junior Lake, The had to lose 100 games to draft Kris Bryant; the Sox are fielding a bad team by design as well. In a year from now, there might be 10 players on this current roster on the team. They're bad because they're supposed to be. They'll also have a payroll sitting about $50MM, even after arbitration hearings next year. They're going to be able to drop a TON of money, even if it's just to get back to their 2005-2010 payroll numbers that they had in the mid 2000s
5. You have your doubts on them executing that strategy, but they just executed a strategy that won a WS 13 years ago and this one is designed to have staying power
6. I just got yelled at by my boss for not doing shit at work today, otherwise I'd continue
Did you mean to say"exiting" strategy in #5? Montreal? Portland? Nashville? Richmond?
They have a strategy. The question now is if they can execute bringing up enough talent over a short enough period of time and if they are able to deliver.
LOL you sound like other delusional Sox fans I know who spend all their time denying that this is a Cubs town. So many half truths In your post and distortions of what I said that I’ll wait until I get home to give you a proper response.
Go ahead and prove anything that I said wrong. I'll wait
And I never once said it's not a Cubs town. I fully admit that, and regularly say that Sox fans have little brother syndrome when it comes to the Cubs
With all the never ending construction on Eisenhower and other expressways the last few years, downtown traffic does get pretty bad and unlike the Cubs, most of the attendance for the Sox drive to the park because, you know, they have something called parking around the park. It is possible to take the train down and the L to the park but you have to worry about the length of the game to get back so just easier to drive. You do know that the stadium was built for only $137 million right? (Compare that to the new Mets stadium costing $900 mill) That is a pittance by comparison to other stadium costs. And that the Sox themselves put another $118 mill of their money (much obtained for naming rights) into the renovation done between 2001-2007 for a stadium that they do not own. Sounds like a reasonable deal for both sides and not so much taxpayer money going into Riensdorf's pockets
You can get to the Cell or whatever it is called quicker from Schaumburg than you can get to Wrigley.
Willy has been on the taxpayer park kick for years. If he has a problem that his tax money funds billionaires toys, he likely has a problem with the entire US tax system which always favors the wealthy. He has a lot to be angry about.
Let’s start with the fact that Hahn’s draft picks and IFA signings have not produced anything. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Berger, Collins (who is hitting .250 despite being considered an offensive prospect who is a defensive liability) look to be at best mediocre major leaguers despite being very high round picks. At worst several could end up as 4A players. You can’t rebuild a franchise and miss on so many high round picks. On the IFA front, besides Roberts, I can’t think of one promising surefire prospect despite having spent a lot of money over the past several years. Their best prospects are guys identified and developed by other organizations, especially Eloy who will be a superstar. Even on the trade front he managed to get fleeced trading away the best prospect, Fernando Tatis, they’ve sourced on their own in years.
Unlike Sox fans, I don’t hate the team on the other side of town. My kids are Sox fans and I enjoy going to their games. I hope they become competitive again but I have serious doubts about Hahn and think in a best case scenario these guys are three years away from even being competitive again.
Nothing is guaranteed with prospects. However, to break in down in recruiting lingo, the Sox have a few 5 star prospects and a ton of 4 star prospects. They will hit on some of these and this team should be very good in 3 years. If you don’t think they have excellent prospects ( most of which are in A or AA) then you don’t closely follow baseball. This is a top 3 farm system in MLB. The prospects don’t typically come up and set the world on fire immediately unless they are Bryant level talent. Almora is a good player that didn’t have immediate success. Babe Schwarber went to the minors last year. Addy looks lost for large stretches. All are decent to good players that ascent has not been a straight line. The Sox will sign a top position player to fill a gap when it makes sense. Just like the Cubs do with their rotation.
I was skimming this thread for kicks, not planning to get involved, and then i read this post. What are you talking about? Per ESPN, the 2006 White Sox played to 90% capacity (8th in the MLB). From baseball-statistic.com, their smallest home attendance in September was just under 34k.
I do think winning would do wonders for the Sox. They may not outdraw the Cubs, but they can certainly be in the top 10 for the league. Right now they have the 8th longest postseason drought in the four major sports. And in their history they've never made the postseason in consecutive seasons. Let that sink in. So winning has definitely been a problem.
I follow baseball. I said Hahn has not done a good job drafting or signing IFAs. The best prospects they have were acquired through trades and last I checked they don’t have any Quintanas or Sales left to trade. Unless Hahn gets his act together, the rebuild is going to fizzle because they won’t have enough players to surround Jimenez, Moncada, Kopech and probably Roberts.
Talk about cherry picking. At least 50% if 1st round draft picks don’t become MLB regulars. There are are variety of reasons for this including bad picks and injuries. You are writing off Berger and Collins as at best mediocre prospects when they have had a grand total of 1 & 2 years professional experience! Berger has a significant injury that may make your prediction come true, but how do you blame that on Hahn? Collins was never expected to be a high average guy, he should bring power and be serviceable.
Rodon would be in the Cubs rotation today. Lopez has way more upside than Chatwood and would be in there rotation no later than next year. Fulmer has been awful and they need to try and make him a bullpen guy. Giolito has been terrible too, but you have to give him more time to get it together while they suck. Kopech will be a stud at some point. Cease, Hansen, Dunning, all should eventually be MLB starters. Birdi can be a closer if healthy. There are a second tier of guys that I would bet on at least one making it.
Eloy and Luis Robert should be middle of the order guys. Any team in baseball would take Moncada and he will get it together. They are going to need to get a position player in the next two drafts. They will add a strong free agent at some point. They will stink again next year, it’s part of the same process the Cubs went through.
I got through 2 sentences and saw you reference batting average as a relevant offensive statistics. Who gives a shit how a hitter gets to first, as long as he's getting there as much as possible?
Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that that is an obsolete statistic.
They had an bonus skimming scandal which more or less murdered their Latin American operations years ago. That is finally close to fully rehabilitated, but they lost the ability to sign anyone of relevance at all for a good 5 years or so because of it.
Anderson has more HR's than Schwarber, Bryant and Rizzo this year, despite playing a position that doesn't supply too much power outside of a few superstars, and could very well end up 30/30 at season's end
Rodon was a slam dunk for that pick and should have gone 1st overall. Him and Schwarber have produced better than anyone in that draft class thus far
Fulmer sucks, can't win em all. So did Ryan Flaherty, Josh Vitters, Pierce Johnson, etc. Can't win em all. Burger gets an incomplete for rupturing his Achilles, but he would have been drafted in the top 20 by one team or another. The book has yet to be written on him
So you are saying they had ONE good year of attendance coming off a World Series win?
Corb, they basically used there IFA money all in one guy, Robert. Along with the Draft, Obtaining the best prospects from other teams as part of trades is exactly what drives a rebuild. Right now the Quintana (who I like) trade looks like it could be a long term good deal for the Sox. Kopech might not be Sale, but he should be a top end starter and moncada is what 23 years old and a starting position player. Might be a good trade for both. Trading Eaton and getting what Hahn did was nothing short of a miracle.
I will give you that their draft picks have not been terrific, but they will have 2-3 more shots at this. In baseball you have to focus on more than 1st round picks. If you can get 2-3 in a draft class to be Major league contributors you have done well.
This can’t be a surprise that the Sox are awful at this stage of a rebuild. Just like the Cubs and Astros were at this stage.
LOL. You crack me up. The amount of rationalization in your posts is ridiculous. You even resorted to comparing Hahn’s drafting record to the Cubs draft track record pre Epstein. News flash, that is why the Cubs sucked before Epstein came on board. First you tell me BA doesn’t matter as an offensive statistic and then you proceed to defend Anderson’s performance by citing the number of home runs he has in a quarter of a season. What is his OBP, his strike out rate, his walk rate, his BA? Please, stop talking out of both sides of your mouth. Ironically Anderson may have been Hahn’s best draft pick but they rushed him in a desperate attempt to show the fan base there was some hope. They did to him what the Cubs did to guys like Corey patterson/Felix Pie and it may end up ruining what looked to be a promising major league prospect. Not only is Hahn falling short on his draft record, the early returns on his minor league player development system are not encouraging.
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I am not talking about last season’s signing. I am talking about the hauls from the previous couple of years. They spent good money and so far it does not look promising.
Posted this story and thought this would great to read the responses - this thread is now all over the map!!! We are such an interesting group !!!
1. Tell me what Anderson’s BABIP is and I’ll tel you why his batting average is low.
2. Anderson is walking at an 8% clip and showing extreme progress offensively. His k rate is also down for the 3rd year in a row
3. Hahn has drafted Zack Collins and Jake burger. That is it. Prior to that Kenny Williams controlled the draft due to his former prowess as a scout. So, you have no idea how his drafts have been.
4. The point of me stating players pre Theo era (whom most cubs fans think is the GM) was to show 1st round picks bust. A lot.
4. Chris Getz was hired one year ago so as the director of player development, so you have ZERO CLUE how they develop players. I don’t either, but they have shifted their drafting/development strategies completely and totally in the last 2-3 years. Nick Hostetler was Also named the scouting director about 3 years ago. They went from drafting athletes first to baseball players first, athletes second.
Would you like me to keep going?
1981 Average attendance 10,672, season total was 565,637
