NU releases non-conference schedule

[lou v]

Other than the "showcase events," NU will face Mississippi Valley State, DePaul, New Orleans, Chicago State, IUPUI and Houston Baptist...

Here's the release....

EVANSTON, Ill. – Nine home games at Welsh-Ryan Arena and four showcase events highlight the 2016-17 Northwestern men's basketball nonconference schedule released today (June 8).

The slate features four games against teams that appeared in the 2016 NCAA Tournament in addition to two more contests against major conference foes.

Fans can get their first glimpse at the 2016-17 Wildcats in action Nov. 4 when they host NCAA Division II opponent University of Illinois Springfield in an exhibition game.

The regular season gets underway one week later at Welsh-Ryan Arena when Northwestern squares off against Mississippi Valley State. On Nov. 14, the 'Cats play their first of two home games in conjunction with the Legends Classic when they face an opponent to be determined.

NU's opens up a challenging stretch on Nov. 16 when the Wildcats travel to Indianapolis to face 2016 NCAA Tournament participant Butler as part of the Gavitt Games.

From there Northwestern heads to Brooklyn Nov. 21-22 for a pair of games in the Legends Classic. The contests are being played at Barclays Center, home of the NBA's Brooklyn Nets. In addition to NU, the field in Brooklyn includes three NCAA tournament teams from a year ago: Notre Dame, Colorado and Texas. Matchups will be announced at a future date.

The Wildcats return to Evanston Nov. 25 to take on another opponent to be determined as part of the Legends Classic before Wake Forest visits Welsh-Ryan Nov. 28 for a Big Ten/ACC Challenge matchup.

Local foe DePaul makes the short trip north on Dec. 3 in a rematch of a game won by the Wildcats in overtime last season in Rosemont. Following a week off for final exams, Northwestern returns to action for a pair of home games against New Orleans on Dec. 11 and Chicago State on Dec. 14.

Chicago's Big Ten Team will play its third game of the season at an NBA arena on Dec. 17 when it squares off against Dayton at United Center in the inaugural State Farm Chicago Legends.

Northwestern then wraps up its nonconference slate with games against IUPUI and Houston Baptist at Welsh-Ryan on Dec. 20 and 22, respectively.

Game times and television designations as well as the Big Ten Conference schedule will be announced later this summer.

Season tickets are currently on sale for the upcoming 2016-17 Northwestern men's basketball season and can be ordered by calling 888-GO-PURPLE.

 

[lou v]

Here's a quick story...

Cats unveil 'Legend'-heavy non-conference slate

 

[NJCat]

Here's a quick story...

Cats unveil 'Legend'-heavy non-conference slate
The rest of the field is a lackluster mix of downtrodden Big Six conference schools (Wake Forest in the Big Ten/ACC Challenge, and DePaul) and mid-majors.

I would actually not call the rest "mid-majors". MVSU, UNO, CSU, Bryant and Houston Baptist have got to be low-majors if you segment Division I into three groups: high, mid and low.

 

[lou v]

I would actually not call the rest "mid-majors". MVSU, UNO, CSU, Bryant and Houston Baptist have got to be low-majors if you segment Division I into three groups: high, mid and low.

I thought about that...but I don't know if I've heard the term 'low major'. Maybe I should go with low-to-mid majors.

By the way, you meant IUPUI (oo-ee-poo-ee), not Bryant.

 

[NJCat]

I thought about that...but I don't know if I've heard the term 'low major'. Maybe I should go with low-to-mid majors.

By the way, you meant IUPUI (oo-ee-poo-ee), not Bryant.

I thought I read that Bryant is playing @NU in the Legends? IUPUI I think is actually a mid-major FWIW.

 

[NUCat320]

I thought about that...but I don't know if I've heard the term 'low major'. Maybe I should go with low-to-mid majors.

By the way, you meant IUPUI (oo-ee-poo-ee), not Bryant.

"Mid-major" used to mean something. Valley, A10 - consistent, multi-bid non-"BCS" conferences. Now, it has evolved, in my opinion, to basically mean "good program for any small conference."

For the teams referenced above, the appropriate label might be "small conference", or maybe, for their self esteem, "high minor".

 

[Alan Smithee]

Lousy. I guess we have low expectations this year.

 

[Sec.112]

Last year's KenPom ratings ...

MVSU - 340
Houston Baptist - 273
Chicago State - 349
New Orleans - 319

It's unfortunately obvious CC didn't learn his lesson. Those 250+ games are an RPI killer!!

Look at a majority of the teams between 180-220 last year (below). Give me Loyola every day and twice on Saturday!!

Wofford??!?! Denver?!!? North Florida?!?! Mercer?!?!? Georgia Southern?!?! And that's before we hit 200.

Just line 'em up!! If you can't beat these guys, you're not going anywhere, anyhow.

However, these are all homes games. Why do I get the feeling the oh-so-shallow pockets of NU has something to do with this?


180 Loyola Chicago
181 Kent St.
182 Missouri
183 Western Michigan
184 DePaul
185 Wofford
186 Denver
187 Charlotte
188 Western Carolina
189 North Florida
190 Eastern Kentucky
191 Tennessee Martin
192 North Dakota
193 Mercer
194 UCF
195 San Francisco
196 Eastern Washington
197 Navy
198 George Mason
199 Georgia Southern
200 NJIT
201 Texas St.
202 Tennessee Tech
203 IUPUI
204 Washington St.
205 Fairfield
206 Austin Peay 16
207 UNC Greensboro
208 New Hampshire
209 East Carolina
210 Sam Houston St.
211 Cal Poly
212 Idaho
213 Auburn
214 Portland
215 UTEP
216 Boston University
217 Rider
218 Saint Peter's
219 Tulane
220 Bowling Green

 

[backdoorpass]

MVSU - 340
Houston Baptist - 273
Chicago State - 349
New Orleans - 319

It's unfortunately obvious CC didn't learn his lesson. Those 250+ games are an RPI killer!!
...
However, these are all homes games. Why do I get the feeling the oh-so-shallow pockets of NU has something to do with this?

I'm with you on this one, 112. The rpiforecast website actually calculates the effect of each team on your overall RPI. Last season, the Chicago State game (which we won) created a -1.54 drop on our season-ending RPI. SIU Edwardsville -0.87, MVSU -0.85, New Orleans -0.72, Loyola MD -0.60, UMass Lowell -0.42 and so on.

And this was the drag on our RPI that already finished quite low at 115. If we had won more games and had a higher RPI, the drag of each of these WINS against poor opponents would have been even more extreme.

If we add kenpom 344 Bryant (as previously reported) to our schedule, we are looking at 5 games (assuming we win) that will most likely knock down our RPI more than 5 (combined) points if we are a legitimate post-season contender. This makes it so much harder to get to the RPI 35-55 range to earn an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament.

Substituting middling cupcakes (instead of rock-bottom cupcakes) would make a huge difference. I wonder if it is indeed a financial thing, as 112 suggests. These cupcake home opponents are paid. (The payments are called "guarantees." The joke is that it is because the win is guaranteed.) Perhaps the middling cupcakes are more expensive because they are more desirable opponents to have on your schedule. There must be something to it because CC is a bright guy and knows the system. This can't just be bad scheduling...

On the other hand, it's nice that we will have some decent opponents in the OOC season. On the whole, though, unless we kill it in the B10, this is probably a schedule built for an NIT bid.

 

[Secho99]

Last year's KenPom ratings ...

MVSU - 340
Houston Baptist - 273
Chicago State - 349
New Orleans - 319

It's unfortunately obvious CC didn't learn his lesson. Those 250+ games are an RPI killer!!

Look at a majority of the teams between 180-220 last year (below). Give me Loyola every day and twice on Saturday!!

Wofford??!?! Denver?!!? North Florida?!?! Mercer?!?!? Georgia Southern?!?! And that's before we hit 200.

Just line 'em up!! If you can't beat these guys, you're not going anywhere, anyhow.

However, these are all homes games. Why do I get the feeling the oh-so-shallow pockets of NU has something to do with this?


180 Loyola Chicago
181 Kent St.
182 Missouri
183 Western Michigan
184 DePaul
185 Wofford
186 Denver
187 Charlotte
188 Western Carolina
189 North Florida
190 Eastern Kentucky
191 Tennessee Martin
192 North Dakota
193 Mercer
194 UCF
195 San Francisco
196 Eastern Washington
197 Navy
198 George Mason
199 Georgia Southern
200 NJIT
201 Texas St.
202 Tennessee Tech
203 IUPUI
204 Washington St.
205 Fairfield
206 Austin Peay 16
207 UNC Greensboro
208 New Hampshire
209 East Carolina
210 Sam Houston St.
211 Cal Poly
212 Idaho
213 Auburn
214 Portland
215 UTEP
216 Boston University
217 Rider
218 Saint Peter's
219 Tulane
220 Bowling Green

I hope we at least get some sort of gift basket for being one of the biggest donors to MVSU and Chicago State's athletic departments every year.

 

[Medill90]

I hope we at least get some sort of gift basket for being one of the biggest donors to MVSU and Chicago State's athletic departments every year.

It's not a certainty that Chicago State will open in the fall. There is still no state budget.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

It's not a certainty that Chicago State will open in the fall. There is still no state budget.

Is that true? Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

 

[WildcatWillie]

Is that true? Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

No, I don't think he was being sarcastic. That university is in serious financial straits, or at least was in the spring. Cancelled its spring break in order to complete the semester, laid off large number of employees including faculty, etc. Not a good situation, and I hope relief comes.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Is that true? Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

No, I don't think he was being sarcastic. That university is in serious financial straits, or at least was in the spring. Cancelled its spring break in order to complete the semester, laid off large number of employees including faculty, etc. Not a good situation, and I hope relief comes.

Oh geez...that's awful. Hope it gets worked out for the better...never like to see that happen.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Last year's KenPom ratings ...

MVSU - 340
Houston Baptist - 273
Chicago State - 349
New Orleans - 319

So I'll ask something I've brought up before. Why not play four D2/D3 schools instead? Most would salivata at the chance...we'd save a few bucks and save a few RPI spots as well, while still getting an easy win...

 

[MysticCat]

So I'll ask something I've brought up before. Why not play four D2/D3 schools instead? Most would salivata at the chance...we'd save a few bucks and save a few RPI spots as well, while still getting an easy win...

I think it's just because the committees also have a D1 line on their sheet.

Wins, d1 wins, road wins.... Sos, last 10.....Etc. And you've just automatically disqualified yourself from item one on the ballot, which is D1 wins.

So I guess taking your chances against sub 300 at least gets you past the first NIT criteria to stay alive.

Disagree with 112 though: I dont think this schedule was made to get into any postseason. This is cc trying to rack up cheap wins to build momentum to sell future recruits. I think it's wise. I don't think this is an NIT team by any stretch, so he can at least say- look how many games we won the last 2 years!

Most 16 year olds and their parents aren't going to point out that he did that by playing a last 10% nc sos again.

Cc needs an extension soon, and since he'll have zero postseason appearances at the bargaining table, he'll have to hang his hat on beating the Bryant's and Mississippi valleys and Columbus's to plead his case.

I'm quite confident he'll get us to the nit in the next 3 or 4 years if he lasts. Not sold on Ncaas though. Very possible. But his clock, if it's not ticking with the administration by now (and it shouldn't be), is starting to tick rather loudly with recruits, and it will be quite loud next year at this time when he is 0-4 on postseason in his career.

 

[willycat]

I think it's just because the committees also have a D1 line on their sheet.

Wins, d1 wins, road wins.... Sos, last 10.....Etc. And you've just automatically disqualified yourself from item one on the ballot, which is D1 wins.

So I guess taking your chances against sub 300 at least gets you past the first NIT criteria to stay alive.

Disagree with 112 though: I dont think this schedule was made to get into any postseason. This is cc trying to rack up cheap wins to build momentum to sell future recruits. I think it's wise. I don't think this is an NIT team by any stretch, so he can at least say- look how many games we won the last 2 years!

Most 16 year olds and their parents aren't going to point out that he did that by playing a last 10% nc sos again.

Cc needs an extension soon, and since he'll have zero postseason appearances at the bargaining table, he'll have to hang his hat on beating the Bryant's and Mississippi valleys and Columbus's to plead his case.

I'm quite confident he'll get us to the nit in the next 3 or 4 years if he lasts. Not sold on Ncaas though. Very possible. But his clock, if it's not ticking with the administration by now (and it shouldn't be), is starting to tick rather loudly with recruits, and it will be quite loud next year at this time when he is 0-4 on postseason in his career.

Mystic, ah your constant love towards cc is amazing. Doesn't seem to have hurt him in this last recruiting class and the only clock that you hear is your alarm telling you to wake up.

 

[Medill90]

I'm sorry but this overwrought analysis of the non con and its effect on post season play is a lot of mental masturbation.

Last time I checked, NU plays in the Big Ten. Last season, the team had a mid-conference stretch of of going 4-10 in the Big Ten. At one point losing five in a row.

Ladies and gents, you're not going anywhere if you lose 10 out of 14 conference games. And you shouldn't be going anywhere. It's a failure of achievement that can't be overlooked.

So now we have another non con released and the swords are out again. Which is fine, this is a message board.

But I'm pretty sure Collins gets that his team has to be .500 or better in conference. And, frankly, it's not real difficult to make the argument that he has the talent to get there. Are they mature enough and have the killer instinct and mental toughness? Unanswered questions.

When Doug Collins loses his TV contract and NU puts together two sub .500 seasons we can start to worry about recruiting.

 

[Styre]

Last time I checked, NU plays in the Big Ten. Last season, the team had a mid-conference stretch of of going 4-10 in the Big Ten. At one point losing five in a row.

Ladies and gents, you're not going anywhere if you lose 10 out of 14 conference games. And you shouldn't be going anywhere. It's a failure of achievement that can't be overlooked.

Georgia Tech lost 9 of its first 12 conference games and finished 8-10 in the ACC. They also lost 3 non-conference games. But they got a 4 seed in the NIT and got to the quarterfinals.

RPIs of their non-con opponents: 4, 37, 61, 86, 114, 133, 145, 162, 199, 231, 241, 244, 332. That is significantly better than our schedule last year, which is why they got a postseason bid and we didn't.

 

[backdoorpass]

I'm sorry but this overwrought analysis of the non con and its effect on post season play is a lot of mental masturbation.
...
But I'm pretty sure Collins gets that his team has to be .500 or better in conference.

Okay. What would you think of a season like the following?

* 11-2 OOC (with 5 wins of those wins over kenpom 275+ teams, 2 top-100 wins, 1 top-20 loss, 1 B1G/ACC Challenge loss)
* 9-9 in the B1G (with the B1G as the #1 conference in College BB, 1 win over a top-20 team)
* finish all alone in 6th place in the B1G
* 1-1 in the BTT (losing to #3 seed)

Is this an NCAA Tournament team or not?
.
.
.
.
.
This was the actual season of the Iowa Hawkeyes in McCaffrey's 3rd season in 2012-13. Iowa missed the NCAA Tournament and went to the NIT.

So, it is not as simple as just your B1G record--especially when the B1G is no longer the best conference in America. (The B1G was the 5th best conference last season.) Like it or not, OOC scheduling really matters.

Perhaps you feel this is just more mental masterbation. But this is indeed a message board to discuss Northwestern basketball. And our OOC schedule was just released...so this is the news of the week.

 

[Medill90]

So, it is not as simple as just your B1G record--especially when the B1G is no longer the best conference in America. (The B1G was the 5th best conference last season.) Like it or not, OOC scheduling really matters..

Sure it is. For a team that hasn't finished above .500 in conference since Spiro Agnew was vice president, it can be as simple as finishing above .500.

If, like Iowa under McCaffrey, NU can string together four consecutive seasons of .500 or better in the Big Ten (with at least two of the seasons better than .500) NU will make the tournament in one of those years.

I readily admit that if NU performed at that level -- which is mediocre for the conference but exceptional and perhaps unprecedented for NU -- it's likely pre con level of difficulty is raised every year as well.

Scheduling matters to the post season. But that's irrelevant if you consistently blow porpoise in conference.

No disrespect meant with the mental masturbation comment. I just don't think that squeaking into the NIT or the NCAA because you successfully nailed the pre conference scheduling algorithm is what this staff is about.

 

[Styre]

No disrespect meant with the mental masturbation comment. I just don't think that squeaking into the NIT or the NCAA because you successfully nailed the pre conference scheduling algorithm is what this staff is about.

But why not? Given how massively important an NCAA tournament berth would be for this program, why wouldn't they want to tilt every possible factor in their favor?

 

[Medill90]

But why not? Given how massively important an NCAA tournament berth would be for this program, why wouldn't they want to tilt every possible factor in their favor?

Well, based on their comments, they think they are doing just that. I believe Collins said something to the effect of, "the Big Ten conference schedule gives us plenty of quality games to earn our way in."

Of course, the best predictor of future behavior is past history. So, a valid case can be made for pairing a beefed up non con with a mediocre conference performance (when you are NU).

I'd argue that it's a much bigger deal to Collins if this team doesn't make the tournament the next couple of years. He expects to be in the NCAA regularly throughout his coaching career.

But I think it'll be moot. As his recruits matriculate to upperclassmen the non con will, indeed, be beefed up. The incredibly weak non con has been an attempt to build confidence in a very junior squad.

 

[Gladeskat]

I thought last year that our OOC schedule didn't matter because we could prove if we are tourney worthy in the B1G. Now I question this scheduling of >300 teams and not more 150-250 teams because it does hurt our RPI and it does little to prepare our team for conference play. Nobody wants to see us blow out #345 by 40 points, either.

I just don't understand CCC's thinking in scheduling so many weak teams.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

I just don't understand CCC's thinking in scheduling so many weak teams.

It's not a CCC problem. It's an NU problem. His has been happening for the last 30 years...

 

[NJCat]

It's not a CCC problem. It's an NU problem. His has been happening for the last 30 years...

Actually, it is a more recent phenomena. Going back 30 years, the schedule was actually pretty competitive, with a heavy dose of local midwest teams plus academic comparable Duke:

1985: @Bradley, Loyola, UIC, Green Bay, @NIU, #18 DePaul, @ #3 Duke
1986: UMBC, NIU, @Butler, Marquette, @ #19 DePaul, @ Green Bay, @ #20 Duke
1987: Rutgers, #13 Duke, @Loyola, @Marquette, DePaul, Lamar, TCU, Northern Arizona
1988: @ #1 Duke, @Rutgers, Loyola, Radford, Ball State, Pitt, Loyola, Navy
1989: Green Bay, #7 Duke, Tulane, Loyola, @BYU, William & Mary, @Vandy, Northeastern
1990: FIU, WIU, Loyola, Morgan State, @St. Louis, BC, Dartmouth
1991: Columbia, Vandy, @Tulane, Northeastern, Idaho State, @Loyola, Creighton, @Arizona State

I think the problem came when OOC schedules went from 7 to 13 games. This caused NU and other Power 6 schools to add dregs just to get enough games. No one wants to have 6 more difficult games in an already long season. For example, the first 30 game season was 1999:

Chicago State, Evansville, Nebraska, Mississippi State, Florida State, LaSalle, Nichols State, Jacksonville, Western Carolina, @USC, Oakland, Pepperdine
2000: UALR, Maryland Eastern Shore, Vermont, @Clemson, our favorite opponent MVSU, @La Salle, St. Peters, @Pepperdine, Kent State, Iona, Evansville, #16 USC, Buffalo

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Actually, it is a more recent phenomena. Going back 30 years, the schedule was actually pretty competitive, with a heavy dose of local midwest teams plus academic comparable Duke:

1985: @Bradley, Loyola, UIC, Green Bay, @NIU, #18 DePaul, @ #3 Duke
1986: UMBC, NIU, @Butler, Marquette, @ #19 DePaul, @ Green Bay, @ #20 Duke
1987: Rutgers, #13 Duke, @Loyola, @Marquette, DePaul, Lamar, TCU, Northern Arizona
1988: @ #1 Duke, @Rutgers, Loyola, Radford, Ball State, Pitt, Loyola, Navy
1989: Green Bay, #7 Duke, Tulane, Loyola, @BYU, William & Mary, @Vandy, Northeastern
1990: FIU, WIU, Loyola, Morgan State, @St. Louis, BC, Dartmouth
1991: Columbia, Vandy, @Tulane, Northeastern, Idaho State, @Loyola, Creighton, @Arizona State

I think the problem came when OOC schedules went from 7 to 13 games. This caused NU and other Power 6 schools to add dregs just to get enough games. No one wants to have 6 more difficult games in an already long season. For example, the first 30 game season was 1999:

Chicago State, Evansville, Nebraska, Mississippi State, Florida State, LaSalle, Nichols State, Jacksonville, Western Carolina, @USC, Oakland, Pepperdine
2000: UALR, Maryland Eastern Shore, Vermont, @Clemson, our favorite opponent MVSU, @La Salle, St. Peters, @Pepperdine, Kent State, Iona, Evansville, #16 USC, Buffalo

Our schedules through the 90s wasn't very spectacular overall...

 

[NJCat]

Our schedules through the 90s wasn't very spectacular overall...

Neither were our teams......

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Neither were our teams......

So then...25 years instead of 30...

 

[Jeffrey Cat]

Last year's KenPom ratings ...

MVSU - 340
Houston Baptist - 273
Chicago State - 349
New Orleans - 319

It's unfortunately obvious CC didn't learn his lesson. Those 250+ games are an RPI killer!!

Look at a majority of the teams between 180-220 last year (below). Give me Loyola every day and twice on Saturday!!

Wofford??!?! Denver?!!? North Florida?!?! Mercer?!?!? Georgia Southern?!?! And that's before we hit 200.

Just line 'em up!! If you can't beat these guys, you're not going anywhere, anyhow.

However, these are all homes games. Why do I get the feeling the oh-so-shallow pockets of NU has something to do with this?


180 Loyola Chicago
181 Kent St.
182 Missouri
183 Western Michigan
184 DePaul
185 Wofford
186 Denver
187 Charlotte
188 Western Carolina
189 North Florida
190 Eastern Kentucky
191 Tennessee Martin
192 North Dakota
193 Mercer
194 UCF
195 San Francisco
196 Eastern Washington
197 Navy
198 George Mason
199 Georgia Southern
200 NJIT
201 Texas St.
202 Tennessee Tech
203 IUPUI
204 Washington St.
205 Fairfield
206 Austin Peay 16
207 UNC Greensboro
208 New Hampshire
209 East Carolina
210 Sam Houston St.
211 Cal Poly
212 Idaho
213 Auburn
214 Portland
215 UTEP
216 Boston University
217 Rider
218 Saint Peter's
219 Tulane
220 Bowling Green

I was looking at the Michigan State site and came across an article about their schedule. They will actually have six or seven of these contract games I guess you call them. However their contract games have a slightly higher level of opponent than ours. We are locked into two of these games because of the Holiday Tournament and probably one other with Chicago State because of who they are. I think that leaves four and one of those is a Summit League team, IUPUI. I think they could help the situation by playing a Horizon team and a Valley team like Loyola or ISU. The problem with the Valley teams is they want home and home games. The coaches are sort of in a pickle because this scheduling is a pain in the butt

 

[Sec.112]

... I think they could help the situation by playing a Horizon team and a Valley team like Loyola or ISU. The problem with the Valley teams is they want home and home games. The coaches are sort of in a pickle because this scheduling is a pain in the butt

I'm missing something about the economics of scheduling.

I've said this in the past. I don't know why you wouldn't give Loyola ... let's say UIC and .... mmmmmm, Milwaukee, for instance straight home-and-home series almost every year. Besides being RPI opponents and more interesting games, you"don't increase home attendance with a few visiting fans, (I assume) not incur the cost of paying an opponent and have no travel costs except a charter bus. For UIC and Loyola, you'don't practically offer fans another home game.

 

[Jeffrey Cat]

I'm missing something about the economics of scheduling.

I've said this in the past. I don't know why you wouldn't give Loyola ... let's say UIC and .... mmmmmm, Milwaukee, for instance straight home-and-home series almost every year. Besides being RPI opponents and more interesting games, you"don't increase home attendance with a few visiting fans, (I assume) not incur the cost of paying an opponent and have no travel costs except a charter bus. For UIC and Loyola, you'don't practically offer fans another home game.

True, we haven't played Loyola in a long time. I don't know what the rub is there and now Porter Moser, the Loyola coach lives in Wilmette and I would bet he and Collins are good friends. Possibly they are holding off till they each build the programs up a little. ( I actually know people who are season ticket holders in both places.). We have played UIC a lot in the past, but it's been a while for Milwaukee.