Offensive Line

[clarificationcat]

I know that I am somewhat beating a very weak horse here, but our offensive line needs to perform at a pretty high level this year or I believe that Fitz needs to acknowledge that we have systematic issues in recruiting and/or development. Having to shift Mogus to tackle in his final year is not encouraging.

We are going to likely be starting a combination of players who have been on the team for either 4 or 5 years and Brad North, who is in his third year. As best I can recall, we haven't had a lot of crippling injuries on the offensive line (although I know Mertz has never been healthy) so we don't have that excuse. Almost all of the players that we recruited at the position are still on the team and, I think, relatively healthy. All of the starters should be physically mature at this point and have been coached by the same group of coaches for their entire college careers. Offensive line should be a strength this year. Back to back sub-par seasons on the offensive line would be hugely disappointing and a pretty clear indication that changes need to be made. I hope last year was an anomaly. I understand that you will have years where a position group struggles because of injuries, youth, etc. but that should not be the case with the offensive line this year (assuming we stay healthy) and shouldn't have been the case last year.

Please replace "offensive line" with "wide receivers" and repeat the above discussion.

I feel great about the db's, running backs, superbacks and defensive ends. I am hopeful that the defensive tackles and linebackers will be solid. I have no idea about the quarterbacks.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

We need the Oline to be stalwart this year! If so, the sky is the limit!

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I know that I am somewhat beating a very weak horse here, but our offensive line needs to perform at a pretty high level this year or I believe that Fitz needs to acknowledge that we have systematic issues in recruiting and/or development. Having to shift Mogus to tackle in his final year is not encouraging.

We are going to likely be starting a combination of players who have been on the team for either 4 or 5 years and Brad North, who is in his third year. As best I can recall, we haven't had a lot of crippling injuries on the offensive line (although I know Mertz has never been healthy) so we don't have that excuse. Almost all of the players that we recruited at the position are still on the team and, I think, relatively healthy. All of the starters should be physically mature at this point and have been coached by the same group of coaches for their entire college careers. Offensive line should be a strength this year. Back to back sub-par seasons on the offensive line would be hugely disappointing and a pretty clear indication that changes need to be made. I hope last year was an anomaly. I understand that you will have years where a position group struggles because of injuries, youth, etc. but that should not be the case with the offensive line this year (assuming we stay healthy) and shouldn't have been the case last year.

Please replace "offensive line" with "wide receivers" and repeat the above discussion.

I feel great about the db's, running backs, superbacks and defensive ends. I am hopeful that the defensive tackles and linebackers will be solid. I have no idea about the quarterbacks.

Losing Frazier to a freak staph infection is a pretty significant loss. And I think we need the OL to Just be adequate for the offense to work, not outstanding.

But the point stands. We have to see better performance out of the offensive line group. There have been far too many "misses" in the 2012 and 2013 OL classes, which should be providing the competitive depth we need right now. Instead it appears that Playko and Coverdale have been jumped by younger players while King is out of the program. The jury is still out on Park, North, DePietro, and even Olson.

My biggest thing is tightening up the pass sets. The pass sets that we took last year were the softest I have ever seen, with both the guards and tackles setting 2-3 yards deep in the pocket. It's no wonder our QBs couldn't get comfortable with that kind of traffic around their feet.

 

[clarificationcat]

Losing Frazier to a freak staph infection is a pretty significant loss. And I think we need the OL to Just be adequate for the offense to work, not outstanding.

But the point stands. We have to see better performance out of the offensive line group. There have been far too many "misses" in the 2012 and 2013 OL classes, which should be providing the competitive depth we need right now. Instead it appears that Playko and Coverdale have been jumped by younger players while King is out of the program. The jury is still out on Park, North, DePietro, and even Olson.

My biggest thing is tightening up the pass sets. The pass sets that we took last year were the softest I have ever seen, with both the guards and tackles setting 2-3 yards deep in the pocket. It's no wonder our QBs couldn't get comfortable with that kind of traffic around their feet.

I should have mentioned Frazier but I am hoping he can rejoin the team by the time conference games start and his replacement has started some games.

 

[Turk]

I know that I am somewhat beating a very weak horse here, but our offensive line needs to perform at a pretty high level this year or I believe that Fitz needs to acknowledge that we have systematic issues in recruiting and/or development. Having to shift Mogus to tackle in his final year is not encouraging.

We are going to likely be starting a combination of players who have been on the team for either 4 or 5 years and Brad North, who is in his third year. As best I can recall, we haven't had a lot of crippling injuries on the offensive line (although I know Mertz has never been healthy) so we don't have that excuse. Almost all of the players that we recruited at the position are still on the team and, I think, relatively healthy. All of the starters should be physically mature at this point and have been coached by the same group of coaches for their entire college careers. Offensive line should be a strength this year. Back to back sub-par seasons on the offensive line would be hugely disappointing and a pretty clear indication that changes need to be made. I hope last year was an anomaly. I understand that you will have years where a position group struggles because of injuries, youth, etc. but that should not be the case with the offensive line this year (assuming we stay healthy) and shouldn't have been the case last year.

Please replace "offensive line" with "wide receivers" and repeat the above discussion.

I feel great about the db's, running backs, superbacks and defensive ends. I am hopeful that the defensive tackles and linebackers will be solid. I have no idea about the quarterbacks.

Mogus put on more muscle and really looks like the second coming of Ryan Keenan now. Both were moved to tackle their last year and I think it's a good move considering Mogus is stronger and bigger now. I think Dipietro put in tons of hard work and that you will be surprised by him this year. North looks the part. I have no opinion on Park or Olson but we need Frazier back in the worst way.

The bottom line is that we have two similar QB's, which is important since the chances are that we will have QB injuries for the 4th year in a row. I've exhausted what I think the problem is with the OL so I won't beat the horse into the ground again, but after giving up 38 sacks and having 55 QBH's last year, I got the utmost respect for TS who continued to stand in the pocket and not do any ghost sacks. The lack of our OL production is CHRONIC. Yet, nobody does anything about it, and the Pollyanna's on this board say that coaching isn't the problem. All I know is that 4 years in a row that our QB's get pounded into the ground. And i'm not just talking a couple sacks and hits a game.

 

[phatcat]

Losing Frazier to a freak staph infection is a pretty significant loss. And I think we need the OL to Just be adequate for the offense to work, not outstanding.

But the point stands. We have to see better performance out of the offensive line group. There have been far too many "misses" in the 2012 and 2013 OL classes, which should be providing the competitive depth we need right now. Instead it appears that Playko and Coverdale have been jumped by younger players while King is out of the program. The jury is still out on Park, North, DePietro, and even Olson.

My biggest thing is tightening up the pass sets. The pass sets that we took last year were the softest I have ever seen, with both the guards and tackles setting 2-3 yards deep in the pocket. It's no wonder our QBs couldn't get comfortable with that kind of traffic around their feet.

Let's compare previous successful seasons. The one that leaps to mind for comparison is 2010. Persa was a beast, but he was under siege all year. He was sacked a bunch of times, and I remember a number of additional times where he got away for a 1 yard gain; hence, no sack recorded.

We were successful on offense in large part because of his escapability and his precision passing.

In 2012 we were run heavy with two dynamic playmakers helping keep the opposing defenses off balance, and then would throw a TS change of pace at them.

I bring this up because I am not sure that these guys (the OL) are necessarily "worse" than these other successful groups. I think we hid the weaknesses well in 2010 and 2012

 

[shakes3858]

I know that I am somewhat beating a very weak horse here, but our offensive line needs to perform at a pretty high level this year or I believe that Fitz needs to acknowledge that we have systematic issues in recruiting and/or development. Having to shift Mogus to tackle in his final year is not encouraging.

We are going to likely be starting a combination of players who have been on the team for either 4 or 5 years and Brad North, who is in his third year. As best I can recall, we haven't had a lot of crippling injuries on the offensive line (although I know Mertz has never been healthy) so we don't have that excuse. Almost all of the players that we recruited at the position are still on the team and, I think, relatively healthy. All of the starters should be physically mature at this point and have been coached by the same group of coaches for their entire college careers. Offensive line should be a strength this year. Back to back sub-par seasons on the offensive line would be hugely disappointing and a pretty clear indication that changes need to be made. I hope last year was an anomaly. I understand that you will have years where a position group struggles because of injuries, youth, etc. but that should not be the case with the offensive line this year (assuming we stay healthy) and shouldn't have been the case last year.

Please replace "offensive line" with "wide receivers" and repeat the above discussion.

I feel great about the db's, running backs, superbacks and defensive ends. I am hopeful that the defensive tackles and linebackers will be solid. I have no idea about the quarterbacks.

Let's not forget that in 2013 many of the Oline were out in the spring. In 2014, many of the Dline were out in the spring. As such, the Oline didn't really have the reps/the reps vs the proper competition.


(I might have the years flipped, but point stands)

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Let's compare previous successful seasons. The one that leaps to mind for comparison is 2010. Persa was a beast, but he was under siege all year. He was sacked a bunch of times, and I remember a number of additional times where he got away for a 1 yard gain; hence, no sack recorded.

We were successful on offense in large part because of his escapability and his precision passing.

In 2012 we were run heavy with two dynamic playmakers helping keep the opposing defenses off balance, and then would throw a TS change of pace at them.

I bring this up because I am not sure that these guys (the OL) are necessarily "worse" than these other successful groups. I think we hid the weaknesses well in 2010 and 2012

Persa also had a tendency to hold onto the ball too long, trusting his legs to make a play if and as needed.

But, again, the point stands. We need more out of the OL group.

 

[stpaulcat]

Persa also had a tendency to hold onto the ball too long, trusting his legs to make a play if and as needed.

But, again, the point stands. We need more out of the OL group.

If we get more out of the OL group, that would be terrific--let's hope that will be true. But recent past history at least suggests that we may not, so in that case, will it take another full year (god forbid) for Fitz to regroup, and if so, what will that regrouping (changes) look like?

 

[Aging Booster]

Making the OL's struggles harder to take is the fact that OL was a strength at NU for decades; even during the Dark Ages, we had a guy like Chris Hinton. We produced more pros at OL than any other position until quite recently, when defensive players seem to be the most likely to find success in the pros from NU. OLs are generally very bright, eschew self-promotion and glamor gimmickry, and put the team first. We should be able to attract these guys. Our OL recruiting this year seems pretty good - we'll have to see.

 

[hdhntr1]

Let's compare previous successful seasons. The one that leaps to mind for comparison is 2010. Persa was a beast, but he was under siege all year. He was sacked a bunch of times, and I remember a number of additional times where he got away for a 1 yard gain; hence, no sack recorded.

We were successful on offense in large part because of his escapability and his precision passing.

In 2012 we were run heavy with two dynamic playmakers helping keep the opposing defenses off balance, and then would throw a TS change of pace at them.

I bring this up because I am not sure that these guys (the OL) are necessarily "worse" than these other successful groups. I think we hid the weaknesses well in 2010 and 2012

I agree that OL has been a weak point for years (even including the years we were successful) We either need better OL or more dynamic guys in the backfield or hopefully both but at present, the hope that we have for this year is that we have dynamite in the backfield because there has been little to indicate that the OL has improved dramatically

 

[phatcat]

One caveat. Let's say we have a mobile quarterback and mediocre pass protection, BUT, I occasionally here that a particular OLine can run block but not pass block.

So if we have a Persa-like performance evading the rush, and a Jackson/Venric level of productivity running, can this be due to a line's ability to run block but not pass block? If so I am in uneasy acceptance of this. I like to see us run the ball.

 

[hdhntr1]

One caveat. Let's say we have a mobile quarterback and mediocre pass protection, BUT, I occasionally here that a particular OLine can run block but not pass block.

So if we have a Persa-like performance evading the rush, and a Jackson/Venric level of productivity running, can this be due to a line's ability to run block but not pass block? If so I am in uneasy acceptance of this. I like to see us run the ball.

The problem is that our scheme seems to not be to fire out but more to go back and that does not lead to great run blocking.

 

[Catreporter]

I agree that OL has been a weak point for years (even including the years we were successful) We either need better OL or more dynamic guys in the backfield or hopefully both but at present, the hope that we have for this year is that we have dynamite in the backfield because there has been little to indicate that the OL has improved dramatically

O-line was NOT a weakness in 2012. Overstatement hurts an argument. I was at the Gator Bowl when they did a very nice job against an SEC-quality D. Also opened some huge holes for Venric at Minnesota that year. No question they struggled last year although they looked pretty good at Notre Dame as I recall and I would argue that some of the playcalling hurt ( too obvious on 4th and ones vs. Cal, Mich come to mind).

 

[shakes3858]

O-line was NOT a weakness in 2012. Overstatement hurts an argument. I was at the Gator Bowl when they did a very nice job against an SEC-quality D. Also opened some huge holes for Venric at Minnesota that year. No question they struggled last year although they looked pretty good at Notre Dame as I recall and I would argue that some of the playcalling hurt ( too obvious on 4th and ones vs. Cal, Mich come to mind).

I didn't think the Oline struggled, but I don't think it was a solid unit in 2012. I believe that they just looked better than they were due to Colter and Mark's ability to run the zone read. Colter had 11 for 71 yards in the Gator Bowl. The fast majority of that were on 3rd down plays were he scrambled and picked up yards because Mississippi State wasn't containing him (frankly, I thought their entire gameplan on offense and defense was terrible and riddled with SEC arrogance). TS was 2 carries for 14 yards. Take out those 13 carries for 85 yards, you're left with the RBs going 27 carries for 75 yards or 2.78 YPC. That's not really getting the job done. What got the job done was Tyler Russell going 12/28 for 106 and throwing up 4 picks to go along with 4 sacks by the Dline. The Dline took over that game.

 

[shakes3858]

Making the OL's struggles harder to take is the fact that OL was a strength at NU for decades; even during the Dark Ages, we had a guy like Chris Hinton. We produced more pros at OL than any other position until quite recently, when defensive players seem to be the most likely to find success in the pros from NU. OLs are generally very bright, eschew self-promotion and glamor gimmickry, and put the team first. We should be able to attract these guys. Our OL recruiting this year seems pretty good - we'll have to see.

Could it be because we have a defensive minded head coach now that we're producing more defensive NFL players. We haven't had that in years:

Name: postion, coaching resume
Pat Fitzgerald: Linebacker, Linebackers coach
Randy Walker: Running back, running back coach, OC, QB coach
Gary Barnett: Wide receiver, RB coach, FB coach, OC QB coach
Francis Peay: OT, could not find
Dennis Green: RB, RB coach, WR coach ST Coach
Rick Venturi: QB/DB, DB coach
John Pont: RB, assistant no title given
Alex Agase: OG/LB Oline coach
Ara Parseghain: HB/DB Freshman team head coach, head coach
Lou Saban: LB/Kicker could not find

So we literally have to go back to 1955 to find a coach who was primarily a defensive player during his playing career. Rick Venturi was a DB coach for a bout a year. No body else had experience as a defensive coach before Fitz. I stopped going back as I don't think they had OC and DC titles back then.

 

[hdhntr1]

O-line was NOT a weakness in 2012. Overstatement hurts an argument. I was at the Gator Bowl when they did a very nice job against an SEC-quality D. Also opened some huge holes for Venric at Minnesota that year. No question they struggled last year although they looked pretty good at Notre Dame as I recall and I would argue that some of the playcalling hurt ( too obvious on 4th and ones vs. Cal, Mich come to mind).

While 2012 was better and probably marked a high point with the present coach, it was still only about average and made to look better with a mobile KC at QB and VM at RB. While not necessarily a weakness, I would not have called it a strength, either. 2012 should represent the minimum standard and if every year was at that level it would be OK. But that was the high point and that is a problem

 

[mybrotha]

I'll say this yet again, all you have to do is listen to the commentary from Ed Cunnigham during the Michigan game to understand that I believe a large part of our offensive line problems were on McCall. Over and over Cunningham mentioned that NU's O Line was not made for the type of blocking they were doing. Finally, in the 4th quarter McCall made an adjustment and moved Siemian around, the offense caught fire and we should have won the game. The next game Siemian tore ND apart and Purdue before he got hurt.
My point is that Cunningham figured this out after simply watching tape in prep. prior to doing the color commentary. What in the heck was McCall thinking all year long? Granted Trevor was banged up and couldn't move real well, but a couple of strides laterally can do the trick most times.
So I believe it was a combo. of less than adequate bocking and poor coaching. I'm not a fan of any of our coaches in game abilities. Hankowitz would be the only exception to that, in that often it seems teams score early against us, but our defense stiffens as the game goes on.
So to wrap it up, I believe coaching has had a lot to do with our problems over the last two years.