Olah vs. JVZ

[Sec.112]

Looks to me like it will be a near even split on minutes between Olah and JVZ. And it's hard for me to argue against that based on what I've seen thus far this year.

Ricko, I hope you don't mind me using your statement. I post this because I generally agree with your direction.

I don't know if it's going to be an even split, but I'm wondering if it should be. Are JVZ's fouls and TOs worth what he adds on defense and ball movement?

In general, I'm sorry this is anything close to a consideration. Olah is just not much of a consideration on offense right now. And his defense? There's a reason I always want to call him Olé.

If we're going on the assumption that he plays better against the B10, can somebody tell him Nebraska is coming to town on Saturday?

 

[hoosboot]

Realistically, you can't play JVZ half the game at this point unless you want to practically guarantee that he fouls out nearly every game. The turnovers and fouls are a problem and it will be tough to put him and Sanjay on the court a ton at the same time. That said, Olah is typically a slow starter and even with that he is still the third leading scorer on the team. I suspect that it will be sort of in line with what we've seen thus far with Olah typically getting around 25 mpg and JVZ typically getting around 15 mpg. If you want something radically different than a heavy dose of AO, I think you're more likely to see a much heavier dose of Skelly than a much heavier dose of JVZ. AO is a big part of this team and IMHO will be a big part of a lot of wins this season.

 

[JournCat]

Maybe I'm WAY off base, but Olah actually looked good at times on defense. His offense was brutal, but he was switching and sticking with guys really well.

 

[ricko654321]

Realistically, you can't play JVZ half the game at this point unless you want to practically guarantee that he fouls out nearly every game. The turnovers and fouls are a problem and it will be tough to put him and Sanjay on the court a ton at the same time. That said, Olah is typically a slow starter and even with that he is still the third leading scorer on the team. I suspect that it will be sort of in line with what we've seen thus far with Olah typically getting around 25 mpg and JVZ typically getting around 15 mpg. If you want something radically different than a heavy dose of AO, I think you're more likely to see a much heavier dose of Skelly than a much heavier dose of JVZ. AO is a big part of this team and IMHO will be a big part of a lot of wins this season.

Yea I said near even split - thinking like 24/16. I think it will also be matchup driven. Olah is better against bigger slower centers. Though tbh I see fewer of those on our schedule than in years past. JVZ I think is more helpful on rebounding, in particular on the O glass. He seems to get at least 1 putback per game. And while his post up game isn't good, if he gets the ball down low on a dumpoff then he has the strength to slam it home. In terms of defense, I think Olah is his equal in zone defense, but JVZ is better in man.

JVZ does need to work out his fouling problem. I worry both he and Lindsey are getting a reputation as "foulers" and won't get much benefit of the doubt on close calls the rest of the way.

Anyways, both have strengths and weaknesses, and I expect Olah will improve his offense as he gets into the flow of the season (as he's done in the past), but I don't think he's improved enough to justify more than a 25/15 split his way on average.

 

[Medill90]

Is the Olah discussed in this thread the same Olah who blocked Seth Allen's shot with :58 left in OT and the score tied?

 

[Sec.112]

Maybe I'm WAY off base, but Olah actually looked good at times on defense. His offense was brutal, but he was switching and sticking with guys really well.

And maybe I'm WAY off base. That's cool. But watch Olah on defense anytime someone drives the baseline or he needs to step out more than three feet from the rim. Automatic baskets.

 

[hoosboot]

Is the Olah discussed in this thread the same Olah who blocked Seth Allen's shot with :58 left in OT and the score tied?

Nah. Totally different guy. I love that guy, but the guy we are talking about is "brutal" on defense.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Nah. Totally different guy. I love that guy, but the guy we are talking about is "brutal" on defense.

Just because someone gets a block doesn't make them a great defender. Regardless, Okah is good around the rim when the player he's focused on is also there. Any other scenario, and his defensive effectiveness drops significantly...

 

[JournCat]

And maybe I'm WAY off base. That's cool. But watch Olah on defense anytime someone drives the baseline or he needs to step out more than three feet from the rim. Automatic baskets.

No, this is friendly debate! He was second in the conference last year in blocks per game and block percentage, and he had 1.4 defensive win shares last year, which put him outside the conference top 10, but he's highest on our team by a mile. I'm not using these stats to argue he's a great defender, but he isn't awful either. There's only so much an average college big man can do when the guys in front of him don't cut off penetration. A lineup with Mac, Demps and Taphorn could make Dikembe Mutombo look bad.

 

[purplejustice]

It is a luxury to have JVZ as a backup this year. It gives Collins the ability to play the hot hand and keep his players fresh. It should motivate both players as they compete for minutes. There has not been much effort by our guards to look for Olah down low in the last few games but that can change depending upon the match ups. Kudos to Collins for signing JVZ and making him an integral part of the team.

 

[Sec.112]

There's only so much an average college big man can do when the guys in front of him don't cut off penetration. A lineup with Mac, Demps and Taphorn could make Dikembe Mutombo look bad.

I've heard the stats argument many times over the last year, and I've REALLY tried to buy it. But I'm sorry: I just don't. The two reasons I stated above are just two of so many consistent problems game in and game out. There are too many simple things that Olah does poorly that can't be measured - bobbling passes and rebounds, poor positioning.

Having said all that, I think this is an annual ritual with me, and his conference season last year proved me wrong. Hopefully, he'll get to that level again.

Also, you make a damn good point about the defense around him. And this year, "weak side" is an understatement. It's amazing how often and how slow/late the weak side is.

 

[Dugan15]

Sec. 112: Long time, no chat. I hope all is well. First of all, dare I say that this is an internet discussion with competing factual points and informed opinions being shared amongst largely anonymous people which hasn't devolved into something our Mom warned us about on our first day of kindergarten. Yay us!! For the fourth basketball season in a row, put me in the "Pro-Olah" camp. I am unprepared to debate the finer points with Hoosier-man 112...but allow me to share that the more time JvZ plays, the more he may get exposed for his weaknesses. Whereas with AO, we know the strengths and the limitations and those limitations have unfortunately not abated significantly...even while the strengths have improved nicely over time. Go 'Cats!

 

[Gladeskat]

A nice discussion on my favorite, or at least my most watched, player. He hasn't gotten into a groove yet from what I see offensively, but that happened last year as well. Then the Big Ten season started and he settled in and had some nice games scoring, starting out shooting 96% (22 of 23) from the FTL (while his 3-pt shooting goes in the toilet because he's leaning into his shot and bouncing it off the back rim). Defensively, he has the same athletic ceiling but seems to have improved over his career at guarding around the basket. Still needs to work on checking out when against athletic bigs and become more aggressive (last night he was poor).

Like others, I see Olah and JVZ getting variable playing time depending upon the opponent and who seems to be on their game that night. JVZ needs to be smarter on defense to be an effective contributor. He could have had a great game against VaTech, nullifying their athletic bigs, if he hadn't gotten in foul trouble so quickly.

 

[Sec.112]

the more time JvZ plays, the more he may get exposed for his weaknesses.

Everybody knows you don't know what f you're talking about, D, so I don't even know why you bother replying.

Seriously, I don't horribly disagree with your statement above. In the end, the time split right now is probably reasonable. But as the season progresses, I hope this becomes less and less of a consideration.

In general, I want Olah's play to make this a non-discussion. So far, he hasn't.

 

[Katatonic]

Olah is susceptible to quick, penetrating guards - which is why CC making the switch and having (a relatively) healthy Cobb guard the opposing PG made a huge difference.

 

[NJCat83588]

Olah is susceptible to quick, penetrating guards - which is why CC making the switch and having (a relatively) healthy Cobb guard the opposing PG made a huge difference.

Huh? You mean BMac??