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OT: Another reason LeBron will never be GOAT

EvanstonCat

EvanstonCat

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May 29, 2001
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The game is totally different.

Michael Jordan played against the Knicks and the Pistons. Karl Malone and Charles Barkley patrolled the lane in the Finals.

Today? Some little white guard who weighs less than 200 lbs is the dirtiest player. C'mon, you gonna tell me that he isn't just a booger that Bill Laimbier pulled from his left nostril? Seriously, Matt Delladenova?????

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...er-in-the-nba/ar-BBojeoM?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=iehp
 
John Stockton was considered one of the dirtiest players of all time, and he was also a "little white guard" who weighed less than 200 lbs.
 
You trying to tell me that Stockton was considered dirtier than the likes of Bill Laimbier? Reggie Miller? Anthony Mason? John Starks?
 
EvanstonCat said:
You trying to tell me that Stockton was considered dirtier than the likes of Bill Laimbier? Reggie Miller? Anthony Mason? John Starks?
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There are many different ways to play dirty. Not all of them involve sending guys crashing to the floor in the paint.
 
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EvanstonCat said:
You trying to tell me that Stockton was considered dirtier than the likes of Bill Laimbier? Reggie Miller? Anthony Mason? John Starks?
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Uh, yeah, I will tell you. A lot of the people you mention let aggressiveness get the best of them and were not always calculating about what they did. I watched Stockton make planned, intentional, flat-out dirty plays time and time again....
 
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Styre said:
There are many different ways to play dirty. Not all of them involve sending guys crashing to the floor in the paint.
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Styre, you sound rather well-versed in the art of dirty play . . . should we read anything into this? :rolleyes:
 
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mikewebb68 said:
Uh, yeah, I will tell you. A lot of the people you mention let aggressiveness get the best of them and were not always calculating about what they did. I watched Stockton make planned, intentional, flat-out dirty plays time and time again....
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Maybe the dirtiest guys are the ones who fools some people to thinking they aren't.
 
mikewebb68 said:
Uh, yeah, I will tell you. A lot of the people you mention let aggressiveness get the best of them and were not always calculating about what they did. I watched Stockton make planned, intentional, flat-out dirty plays time and time again....
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In something like a 30-second span once saw Stockton set a screen where he elbowed a guy in the throat, then put his foot under an opponent shooting a three. Yeah, he was really dirty.
 
elgatoloco said:
In something like a 30-second span once saw Stockton set a screen where he elbowed a guy in the throat, then put his foot under an opponent shooting a three. Yeah, he was really dirty.
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That picture of him messing up Kerr says it all to me. So, we all agree now that Stockton was a dirty SOB. Back to my original thesis. MJ played in a different era playing against a-holes like Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbier and the rest of the Pistons, Starks and Oakley and the Knicks, dirty bastards like Stockton and Malone and Sir Charles in the finals. Would anyone say Delledevova can hold a candle to Stockton? Plus, Delledevova plays on the SAME TEAM as LeBron. LeBron plays in the era of the Euros, who love to flop. Hell, LBJ is as Euro as any of them, flopping all the time. Pistons would have killed him.
 
Saw an interview on this subject, maybe about a year ago, where LeBron himself said MJ is the GOAT. As a Bulls' fan, I'm certainly not pulling for LeBron to be successful on the court. As with Aaron Rodgers of the Packers, I don't like the jersey they wear, but objectively I acknowledge and respect their talents. He may not be MJ - and perhaps no one ever will - but I'd say a pretty good case can be made for calling LeBron the greatest of his time.
 
NURoseBowl said:
Saw an interview on this subject, maybe about a year ago, where LeBron himself said MJ is the GOAT. As a Bulls' fan, I'm certainly not pulling for LeBron to be successful on the court. As with Aaron Rodgers of the Packers, I don't like the jersey they wear, but objectively I acknowledge and respect their talents. He may not be MJ - and perhaps no one ever will - but I'd say a pretty good case can be made for calling LeBron the greatest of his time.
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It might be argued that he is the GOHT but no way GOAT. Even GOHT is disputable with Mr. Curry beating the snot out of his Cavs.
 
EvanstonCat said:
It might be argued that he is the GOHT but no way GOAT. Even GOHT is disputable with Mr. Curry beating the snot out of his Cavs.
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Yeah, Curry's unbelievable. I cringe at the thought of what he'll likely do to the Bulls tonight.
 
EvanstonCat said:
That picture of him messing up Kerr says it all to me. So, we all agree now that Stockton was a dirty SOB. Back to my original thesis. MJ played in a different era playing against a-holes like Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbier and the rest of the Pistons, Starks and Oakley and the Knicks, dirty bastards like Stockton and Malone and Sir Charles in the finals. Would anyone say Delledevova can hold a candle to Stockton? Plus, Delledevova plays on the SAME TEAM as LeBron. LeBron plays in the era of the Euros, who love to flop. Hell, LBJ is as Euro as any of them, flopping all the time. Pistons would have killed him.
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Hard to know how LeBron would react to this style of play. It took Michael a few years and serious weight training to adapt. LeBron is bigger and stronger.

I miss some of that style of play but the grabbing and holding became excessive. Games in the 60s are unacceptable.
 
elgatoloco said:
Hard to know how LeBron would react to this style of play. It took Michael a few years and serious weight training to adapt. LeBron is bigger and stronger.

I miss some of that style of play but the grabbing and holding became excessive. Games in the 60s are unacceptable.
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LeBron may be physically bigger, but he's softer. He plays in an era with a bunch of Euros, and he's the master of the flop. Have you ever seen MJ flop? No. Never. The amount of punishment that Jordan took was unlike anything LeBron has seen. LeBron never met the Bad Boys of Detroit.
 
EvanstonCat said:
LeBron may be physically bigger, but he's softer. He plays in an era with a bunch of Euros, and he's the master of the flop. Have you ever seen MJ flop? No. Never. The amount of punishment that Jordan took was unlike anything LeBron has seen. LeBron never met the Bad Boys of Detroit.
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I don't hate LeBron, but this post is hard to argue with.
 
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NURoseBowl said:
I don't hate LeBron, but this post is hard to argue with.
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Nope, but then again, the game is different today, and you can't blame LeBron for that. If he played during Jordan's era, would he be as soft? Maybe, probably, even, but we don't know for sure.

It all comes down to what kind of NBA you want to see. Sure, you see soft Europeans flopping and layups that are made instead of the shooter getting checked into the third row. You also get to see the beautiful game played by the Spurs and Warriors because dribblers aren't being stiff-armed and cutters aren't being held in the lane.

I think the NBA has gone too far in promoting movement, but I really don't miss watching Mike Fratello's Cavs and Pat Riley's Knicks turgid style. I see enough wrestling and hacking in my son's 6th grade basketball games.
 
I am old school. I enjoyed the NBA of the 60's with passing, cutting, pick n' rolls rather than the hand to hand combat that the NBA has become today. Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Hal Greer et al were BB players . The game has changed but not always for the better. 130-120 scores were common , they are extremely rare now
 
docrugby1 said:
I am old school. I enjoyed the NBA of the 60's with passing, cutting, pick n' rolls rather than the hand to hand combat that the NBA has become today. Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Hal Greer et al were BB players . The game has changed but not always for the better. 130-120 scores were common , they are extremely rare now
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When I was a little kid in the 70s, my father brought me up on college hoops. We rarely watched NBA basketball--and when we did, my father always bemoaned the fact that there was traveling (not called) on almost every possession and that they didn't play defense (zone defenses were illegal at the time, so it was a minimum effort man-to-man). Things changed with the rise of the Showtime Lakers, Bird Celtics, Bad Boys Detroit Pistons and Jordan's Bulls. The NBA may have gotten too rough and dirty...but strong defense drives competitive basketball that is fun to watch. The jury is still out on how they are calling the college game this year. I'm not convinced that a shorter shot clock and more fouls called makes for a more entertaining game. Higher scoring, but so what?
 
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backdoorpass said:
When I was a little kid in the 70s, my father brought me up on college hoops. We rarely watched NBA basketball--and when we did, my father always bemoaned the fact that there was traveling (not called) on almost every possession and that they didn't play defense (zone defenses were illegal at the time, so it was a minimum effort man-to-man).
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Fans at every level of basketball since the beginning of time have complained that traveling and 3 second violations aren't called enough. Of course, they've also always complained that there are too many fouls called and the flow of the game is ruined by too many whistles, so...
 
At what point do we (or at least E-Cat) stop talking about LeBron and start talking about Stephen Curry as GOAT? The dude is awesome...one of the most exciting basketball players I've ever watched. He's averaging 51.3% from the field this season, which is sick, as he's also leading the league in 3-pointers. In the past week, the Warriors have blown out the Cavs (with LeBron), the Bulls, and the Spurs. They're clearly superior to all other teams in the NBA, and it would be a huge upset if they don't win another championship this season. That would be two for Curry, at the age of 28. Barring serious injury that derails his career, he's in the discussion.
 
beetlemania74 said:
At what point do we (or at least E-Cat) stop talking about LeBron and start talking about Stephen Curry as GOAT? The dude is awesome...one of the most exciting basketball players I've ever watched. He's averaging 51.3% from the field this season, which is sick, as he's also leading the league in 3-pointers. In the past week, the Warriors have blown out the Cavs (with LeBron), the Bulls, and the Spurs. They're clearly superior to all other teams in the NBA, and it would be a huge upset if they don't win another championship this season. That would be two for Curry, at the age of 28. Barring serious injury that derails his career, he's in the discussion.
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I find it hard to watch Curry and the Warriors without noticing all the illegal screens they use to get him open. Draymond Green and Bogut are ridiculous the way they move into defenders at the last second, or leave a trailing leg, or, upon any contact, intentionally move into the defender's only possible path to Curry. It's true that Curry is an unbelievable shooter, and he only needs a bit of space to be deadly. But those screens are illegal.

So I have a hard time putting even a potential GOAT label on a player that gets 50% of his points through designed plays, 75% of which include an illegal screen. He's not an MJ or an LBJ--a player that can take over a game on his own.
 
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