OT: Bears

[hoosboot]

Mooney looks pretty good and Robinson is a legit #1. Wims is serviceable. Miller is highly talented, but unfocused. No clue what they have in Ridley. Kmet shows some promise. Graham is nearly washed, but has shown he is still a threat in the red zone. I’d call this group average at absolute minimum, with room for solid growth as Mooney and Kmet get more accustomed to the league.

Monty has underwhelmed, but his style is a good fit for what Nagy likes to do. Cohen is explosive and has impacted games in the past. Patterson is a fun, but his value is in special teams where he is truly elite. When healthy, this group as a whole is no worse than meh, but it isn’t a position worth fretting about. Most RBs are line/scheme dependent.

That being said, I’d agree with your assessment of the line, the QBs, and that the staff can only get so much out of their personnel, especially as the injuries mount in the trenches.

My biggest issue with the offense is the lack of draft capital invested in it. It shouldn’t come as too much as surprise though. This is what can happen when you regularly trade away future picks to chase the present without try to recoup value in trade downs or the compensatory formula.

Just compare those position groups to the rest of the teams in the NFC.

Who do you think would trade receiver groups with the Bears? Eagles, Redskins, 49ers, and Giants?

Running backs? Maybe the Lions and the 49ers? Maybe neither?

QB's? Redskins and maybe the Giants?

O-Line? So hard to figure given the injuries, but it's middle of the pack at best. Started decently and has been struggling of late.

Even if you say that the O-line is right in the middle, that's bottom level talent overall. Agree that throwing away draft capital has been a major problem in obtaining better talent on this side of the ball.

 

[corbi296]

This is my favorite corbi special. Dak! Watson!

QB draft prediction

By the way, several years ago, I was talking about McSorley and said he was going to be a good one and I remember you said he wouldn't amount to anything. Were you basing on that on talent evaluators or your own totally incorrect evaluation? YASFOS

northwestern.forums.rivals.com

And gcg nailed the big finish.

Corbi’s been on fire on the Rant Board in 2020. I’m still a big corbi fan.

Man, you guys spend an awful lot of time looking back at my post history to find things I was wrong about. I'll admit, my opinion on Bortles' capabilities tuned out to be a "tad" optimistic. You got me on that one. What the heck does that have to do with Pace's documented track record of acquiring players? Go back and compare the list I provided to the talent acquisition track record of his peer group and you'll find that he is on Par or better with other GMs. No GM bats even close to a 1,00. Ryan Pace isn't the best GM in the league nor is he the best GM the Bears have had but when you look at this Bears team, you see a team with a lot of talent which under the right scheme and the the right coach could make a very deep playoff run. Pace's misses are a problem but they are not THE problem with the Bears. That designation belongs to Matt Nagy.

 

[Hungry Jack]

This is National Mess With Corbi Week.

I put Peyton Ramsey in the same class as DeShaun Watson.

 

[hdhntr1]

If you bothered reading my posts you'll see I don't absolve him but I also acknowledge that he has overcome his player personnel mistakes by making as many brilliant picks/signings as he has misses. Besides, my post was about what is wrong with the Bears on the field. When I look at the team the Bears put on the field, I don't see a lack of talent, I see a lot of talent and that is ultimately the GM's job, to put talent on the field. The biggest problem is the head coach and the majority of his staff that are incapable of developing talent, deploying talent and putting together a game plan that puts the team in the best position to win. Pace's biggest mistake was his decision to hire Matt Nagy.

Take another look at that O. It is a hot mess of garbage. #1 WR likely would not be that on any other team. I can think of 3-4 passes he had in his hands that ended up in turnovers. OL is crap. TE until recent has been garbage. RB averages less than 3 ypc. Maybe you think it is an abundance of talent but I don't think anyone else would. D is better but it is getting old fast and without draft picks....

And where are those draft picks? Well several of them were used to move up one spot to get Trubinsky. More were used for Mack, etc etc.

 

[hdhntr1]

Yeah, I agree with most of this. As you point out, Pace has had several great draft picks in the middle rounds and some really good free agent signings. You point out all of the good moves he has made above, and make no mistake, there have been a lot of good ones.

Unfortunately, he has not been able to figure out the QB position, which is by far the most important position in football...though I will say I am one of probably a small few that still hasn't given up on Trubisky. I will clarify that I think he may need a new start somewhere else or a new OC to work with that is not Nagy, but I see enough there with him that I don't think he's a lost cause yet. But signing Mike Glennon to a $16M/1 year contract? What? Also, despite looking pretty mediocre so far, Foles wasn't a bad pick up, but did you really have to give up a fourth rounder and guarantee him money through 2022?

I will give him credit for being bold on trying to fill the QB position. But giving up what he did to trade up one spot for Trubisky, the Glennon signing, and what he gave up to get Foles...it's a lot for a position that is still very much in flux. For him, the reality is that no matter what he does with the rest of the roster, none of it really matters all that much if he can't figure out the QB position.

I have not given up on Trubisky. Unfortunately I think he will become a star for someone else. Someone will teach him to put some arc on his deep ball and...

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

I have not given up on Trubisky. Unfortunately I think he will become a star for someone else. Someone will teach him to put some arc on his deep ball and...

...and read a pro defense...and set his feet when he throws...and step up in the pocket...and...

I hope it works out for Mitch, but he is nowhere close to being a competent starting NFL QB.

 

[hdhntr1]

Mooney looks pretty good and Robinson is a legit #1. Wims is serviceable. Miller is highly talented, but unfocused. No clue what they have in Ridley. Kmet shows some promise. Graham is nearly washed, but has shown he is still a threat in the red zone. I’d call this group average at absolute minimum, with room for solid growth as Mooney and Kmet get more accustomed to the league.

Monty has underwhelmed, but his style is a good fit for what Nagy likes to do. Cohen is explosive and has impacted games in the past. Patterson is a fun, but his value is in special teams where he is truly elite. When healthy, this group as a whole is no worse than meh, but it isn’t a position worth fretting about. Most RBs are line/scheme dependent.

That being said, I’d agree with your assessment of the line, the QBs, and that the staff can only get so much out of their personnel, especially as the injuries mount in the trenches.

My biggest issue with the offense is the lack of draft capital invested in it. It shouldn’t come as too much as surprise though. This is what can happen when you regularly trade away future picks to chase the present without try to recoup value in trade downs or the compensatory formula.

Sorry you lost me when you said Robinson is a one. He is the best the Bears have but no number one.

 

[NUCat320]

...and read a pro defense...and set his feet when he throws...and step up in the pocket...and...

I hope it works out for Mitch, but he is nowhere close to being a competent starting NFL QB.

I liked last season, when all the midseason rage was “and Nagy’s going to start calling running plays for Trubisky again” (because he can’t, you know, throw that well).

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Sorry you lost me when you said Robinson is a one. He is the best the Bears have but no number one.

Robinson is one of the best contested catch receivers in the league, runs good routes and is usually sure handed.

The last few games Allen seems distracted (maybe the contract is weighing on him), but the guy regularly ranks in the top 12 of most graded receiving metrics. Remember the guy has played with Christian Hackenberg, Blake Bortles and Mitch Trubisky for all but 4 games since enrolled in college. It’s pretty amazing he has put up the numbers he has to this point.

Robinson isn’t Julio, Adams, or Hill, but he’s pretty comparable to someone like Golliday. That’s a #1.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Lol. No one screws up football like the Bears.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Even after the turnover, you have a guy whose cover man falls down, giving him a clean path for extra yards - and he doesn’t see it, turns toward the sideline instead, letting it become the only defender, and steps out of bounds shy of the first down.

 

[catfans5]

The Bears need to fire Pace, Nagy and Pagano tonight. Missed assignments, mental mistakes and terrible execution. All examplesof bad coaching and player development.

 

[NJCat]

Lol. No one screws up football like the Bears.

Except the Jets. Vegas drive for a game winning TD with 34 seconds left and no time outs.

 

[Alaskawildkat]

After reading through this lengthy thread it is clear to me that all of the Bears' problems can be solved if they would just click on this thread and follow the advice offered.

 

[hdhntr1]

Except the Jets. Vegas drive for a game winning TD with 34 seconds left and no time outs.

If you saw todays game you would not say that

 

[hdhntr1]

After reading through this lengthy thread it is clear to me that all of the Bears' problems can be solved if they would just click on this thread and follow the advice offered.

Only if the thread said blow it all up and start from scratch

 

[willycat]

Lol. No one screws up football like the Bears.

Trubisky fumbles again, late in the game and then Lions score. Bears LOSE!

 

[willycat]

The Bears need to fire Pace, Nagy and Pagano tonight. Missed assignments, mental mistakes and terrible execution. All examplesof bad coaching and player development.

Mitch also!

 

[FrancisSearle75]

The Bears need to fire Pace, Nagy and Pagano tonight. Missed assignments, mental mistakes and terrible execution. All examplesof bad coaching and player development.

Should relieve Ted Phillips of his duties as well.

 

[Alvious]

Should relieve Ted Phillips of his duties as well.

Why Phillips? He handles the business side only.

 

[FrancisSearle75]

Why Phillips? He handles the business side only.

President and CEO of the team. On the org chart, he's the boss of the GMs and the coaches. He helps pick the GM and the coach, and oversees the entire franchise. After 20+ years, the team that he is president of has only been to the postseason five times and has only three wins in the playoffs. This is with five different head coaches and three general managers.

Maybe he should be given the title, head of business operations and someone else should be hired as head of football operations.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Windy City Gridiron posters on suicide watch tonight...

 

[NUCat320]

The Bears aren’t any good, of course, but what a terrible miscalculation to sign Foles and give him any starts this season. Mitch probably could have gone 2-5 as a starter, too. (Mitch probably wouldn’t have led the comeback against Atlanta.)

At least they learned over 7 games that a 31-year-old journeyman who has never held a starting job isn’t any good.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Just when you think Trubisky and the Bears are getting somewhere on offense, he goes and throws an incredibly dumb interception in the Endzone at a critical juncture. Same old Mitch. Same old bears.

 

[Titanium999]

Getting fleeced by the Rams.

The Rams are playing with ferocity, and the Bears have been on their heels since the opening drive. The Rams look faster, stronger, and fitter.

But what bothers me most is that our defense was clearly not prepared for the Rams’ offensive scheme. That’s on Nagy and Pagano.

And without an overhaul of the offensive line, the Bears are not going to win against good teams.

Good running 🏃‍♂️ game is helping them now!

 

[Hungry Jack]

Well, kudos to the Bears for pouring it on in the second half. That’s what good teams do. Maybe there is hope for them.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Well, kudos to the Bears for pouring it on in the second half. That’s a good teams do. Maybe there is hope for them.

First 40 point performance from the offense since 2013. As pointed out after the GB game, the changes on the OL have done wonders and allowed Monty to show what he is capable above.

Kudos to Nagy for keeping the team together and adjusting his attack (PA, rollouts/limited progression reads, etc) to highlight Mitch’s strengths. Many coaches would not be so flexible, especially considering how frustrating Trubisky can be.

 

[corbi296]

First 40 point performance from the offense since 2013. As pointed out after the GB game, the changes on the OL have done wonders and allowed Monty to show what he is capable above.

Kudos to Nagy for keeping the team together and adjusting his attack (PA, rollouts/limited progression reads, etc) to highlight Mitch’s strengths. Many coaches would not be so flexible, especially considering how frustrating Trubisky can be.

About fricken time though.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

About fricken time though.

They scored 26+ in the last five, so a trend has been established. Trubisky was injured from the New Orleans game through the BYE, so little could have been done (Foles is a statue).

It’s the defense that has been inconsistent during the stretch run; even prior to Jaylon’s injury (Skrine being unavailable is probably a net positive).

 

[corbi296]

They scored 26+ in the last five, so a trend has been established. Trubisky was injured from the New Orleans game through the BYE, so little could have been done (Foles is a statue).

It’s the defense that has been inconsistent during the stretch run; even prior to Jaylon’s injury (Skrine being unavailable is probably a net positive).

My comment was in reference to Nagy’s stubbornness as it relates to calling plays and to customizing the offense to cater to Mitch’s talents. This all should have happened a year ago. The guy is very stubborn.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Mitch threw a very good ball to Robinson near the end of the first half in the corner of the Endzone. Unfortunately Robinson botched it and the Bears had to settle for a field goal. That obviously was a play where Mitch did not have to make any reads. Robinson was the primary receiver and Mitch’s job was to throw ball into a safe space along the sideline we’re only Robinson could play it. He threw it perfectly and Robinson should’ve had it for the touchdown.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

My comment was in reference to Nagy’s stubbornness as it relates to calling plays and to customizing the offense to cater to Mitch’s talents. This all should have happened a year ago. The guy is very stubborn.

We get it, just like McCall, you are digging in your heels. Pace, the guy who choose an incredibly flawed QB, is blameless. It’s all on Nagy, etc.

Agree to disagree.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Mitch threw a very good ball to Robinson near the end of the first half in the corner of the Endzone. Unfortunately Robinson botched it and the Bears had to settle for a field goal. That obviously was a play where Mitch did not have to make any reads. Robinson was the primary receiver and Mitch’s job was to throw ball into a safe space along the sideline we’re only Robinson could play it. He threw it perfectly and Robinson should’ve had it for the touchdown.

Great example, Hungry.

Mitch is such a rollercoaster. The play you mentioned gets you excited, yet later in the half he goes all bonehead with that awful int. At this point, you live with the bad. When he goes up against playoff calibre opposition you just have to close your eyes and hope the defense can make up for the inevitable.

Pace will be faced with a difficult decision this offseason regarding Trubisky. I don’t envy him.

 

[corbi296]

We get it, just like McCall, you are digging in your heels. Pace, the guy who choose an incredibly flawed QB, is blameless. It’s all on Nagy, etc.

Agree to disagree.

LOL, where did I say that. Pace has blown way too many picks for my liking. The reality though is that the Bears have more talent than they have shown on the field, particularly on defense. That’s on Nagy and his staff. Case in point is the OL. The real reason for the Bears improvement these past few games is the play of the OL. Trubisky and Montgomery wouldn’t be playing anywhere close to the way they are if the OL hadn’t been reshuffled during the bye week. Are you going to blame Pace for the fact that Nagy has chosen to play Rashad Coward over Alex Bars and Mustipher for the last year? That’s on a coaching staff unable to evaluate and deploy the talent they have on the roster.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

LOL, where did I say that. Pace has blown way too many picks for my liking. The reality though is that the Bears have more talent than they have shown on the field, particularly on defense. That’s on Nagy and his staff. Case in point is the OL. The real reason for the Bears improvement these past few games is the play of the OL. Trubisky and Montgomery wouldn’t be playing anywhere close to the way they are if the OL hadn’t been reshuffled during the bye week. Are you going to blame Pace for the fact that Nagy has chosen to play Rashad Coward over Alex Bars and Mustipher for the last year? That’s on a coaching staff unable to evaluate and deploy the talent they have on the roster.

You’ve gone after Nagy this entire thread, even when the offense has performed well. Your narrative is set.

It’s true the staff deserves blame for being late to diagnose Coward. It should also be noted that their choices weren’t great to start with. Ryan Pace deserves blame here as well for consistently blowing high picks and squandering draft capital in trade ups, which saddles the offensive staff with less depth/talent/scheme fits...especially at OL and QB. Pace is a whiz at the cap, but he has backed himself into a corner trying to fix his own mistakes (and may very well lose one of his best two signings in Robinson because of it).

You can LOL to anyone who doesn’t agree with you all you wish, however, it does not help your argument/track record (as others have pointed out in this thread over the past several months).

Again, I’ll leave it at “agree to disagree”.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I think we miss Fangio dearly. I was never sold on Pagano. But Trevathan got old, Hicks got hurt, Callahan got big money elsewhere, Quinn sucked, and here we are.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

I think we miss Fangio dearly. I was never sold on Pagano. But Trevathan got old, Hicks got hurt, Callahan got big money elsewhere, Quinn sucked, and here we are.

Agree, especially Callahan (Skrine has been horrible, just like in NY) Also, don’t forget Amos. Adrian was so solid and allowed Eddie to go make those huge plays. The Quinn signing really stings. He aging, isn’t a 3-4 fit and they can’t quickly get out of his deal.

Much of the analytic data out there suggests that defense is unpredictable on a year to year basis and it may be wise reverse course in the coming years. If I’m Pace, I consider trading one of Hicks (it would suck because he’s amazing) or Fuller for picks and cap relief. Definitely Trevathan, but I’m not sure if there would be a market for him.

The future is murky at best, so I’m going to try to enjoy another “non-losing” season and hope for a second playoff birth in three seasons...they have been a somewhat rare occurrence this century.

 

[corbi296]

You’ve gone after Nagy this entire thread, even when the offense has performed well. Your narrative is set.

It’s true the staff deserves blame for being late diagnose Coward. It should be noted their choices weren’t great to start him. Pace deserves blame here as well for to consistently blowing high picks and squandering draft capital in trade ups, which makes the offensive staff have to play with less depth/talent/scheme fits...especially at OL and QB. He’s a whiz at the cap, but backed himself into a corner trying to fix his own mistakes (may well lose one of his best two signings in Robinson because of it).

You can LOL to anyone who doesn’t agree with you all you wish. Doesn’t make you anymore right, as others have pointed out in this thread over the past several months.

Again, I’ll leave it at “agree to disagree”.

Yes, relatively speaking I don’t have any doubt in my mind that Nagy’s performance has been the bigger problem for the Bears but Pace is by no means blameless. After all, it was Pace who hired Nagy. A compelling argument can be made that they both should be gone. I don’t subscribe to that theory partly because I am not convinced that the Bears current decision making hierarchy could do better. So I am on record that they should stay but I won’t let these last few games fool me into thinking that all is well at Halas Hall. Nagy and Pace need to get their act together because they are joined at the hip and neither will survive another inconsistent roller coaster season like this one.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Wow. The Pack is handing it to a very good Titans team up in snowy Green Bay.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Wow. The Pack is handing it to a very good Titans team up in snowy Green Bay.

Packers letting the opposition back in the game after racing out to a huge lead (a multi year trend).

Beautiful keeper by Tannehill.