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OT: Tiger Woods Accident Taleaways

Hyundai and its sister brand Kia are knocking it out of the park. The Palisade and Telluride SUVs are best-in-class, and their reliability and safety ratings are tops. Genesis already is very competitive with Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc. in the premium market. They just have to overcome the now-outdated poor perception of the brand from back in the day when they used to make crappy cars.
Agreed. Brand is on the rise. With BMW increasingly losing market share due to its "boomer" perception and Mercedes refusing to innovate on the EV front, I'm expecting new money to continue to gain popularity with the Millennial and Gen Z population.
 
This take by an accident reconstruction expert is of note. Admittedly it is limited to opinions based upon the publicly available data, but does present some valid support for the premise that the vehicle flipped onto its side at the end when it hit a tree and did not roll over previously. Also the speed may not have been as significant a factor as first supposed.

With the expected data available from the pre airbag deployment recordings and even off of the infotainment system it is almost as if today's modern vehicles have incorporated a Black Box analogous to those on aircraft. Commercial vehicles have of course incorporated recording mechanisms for years to allow speed and trip data monitoring.

https://www.outkick.com/forensic-co...s-initial-tiger-woods-reports-are-misleading/
 
There will always be a legitimate debate among many informed golfers as to whether Jack or Tiger were the better players. Lots of different ways to look at the question. Some favor Tiger. Others favor Jack. Tiger was transformative, much like Arnie. Nobody ever hit a 1 iron like Jack. Tiger's peaks have had no parallel. But Jack's longevity is also in a world of its own. And most of what he accomplished was done with dramatically inferior clubs and balls. Place the 2 at the peak of their careers on the same course (Augusta) with the same equipment and Tiger would be the slight betting favorite. But would you bet against Jack? I wouldn't. Then fast forward 20 years past their prime. Jack is still capable of winning the Masters. Tiger is out of the game altogether.

GOUNUII

GOUNUII

Records aside, I think even Jack has said Tiger is the GOAT. Hard to compare because the level of competition in the modern era is so much stronger than in the 60s, 70’s and 80’s. On today’s PGA tour 70 guys can win any event. Back in the era’s of Jack, Arnie, Hogan and Sneed maybe 10-15 guys had a chance to win.
 
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Records aside, I think even Jack has said Tiger is the GOAT. Hard to compare because the level of competition in the modern era is so much stronger than in the 60s, 70’s and 80’s. On today’s PGA tour 70 guys can win any event. Back in the era’s of Jack, Arnie, Hogan and Sneed maybe 10-15 guys had a chance to win.

Jack was always gracious. Never one who felt the inclination or the need to toot his own horn.

Like I said. Tiger is deserving of his GOAT supporters. But so is Jack.

BTW ... I think your estimate of 70 guys is on the high side in full field tournaments.

GOUNUII
 
Hyundai and its sister brand Kia are knocking it out of the park. The Palisade and Telluride SUVs are best-in-class, and their reliability and safety ratings are tops. Genesis already is very competitive with Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc. in the premium market. They just have to overcome the now-outdated poor perception of the brand from back in the day when they used to make crappy cars.
Not so sure they ever made "crappy" cars. I bought a 2005 Hyundai Elantra in the Dominican Republic in 2005 and sold it in March of 2020. It looked like it just came out of the showroom when I sold it and it always ran like a top. Many of my friends at Casa de Campo had Hyundai and Kia vehicles and they were very happy with them. I might lease a new Genesis sedan next time.
 
The other thing with regard to the vehicle that will be looked at is whether added protections or design changes could have reduced the likely mechanical intrusions that led to the ankle and leg injuries.
I was wondering too how Tiger got leg and foot injuries from the accident, and read this doctor's take on what he thought happened:

A right leg injury is typical for a car accident because you put your right foot on the pedal for the brake and it stabilises against that. When you have an impact from the front it drives the front part of the car into your leg and compresses it.​

 
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Comminuted tibial fractures, barring infection, can usually be managed with the modern locking rods. The initial reports mentioned "shattered ankle" which could be the devastating Pilon fracture involving the distal articular surface of the tibia.
An injury that I saw frequently in drivers involved in accidents was fractures of the talar neck. This was known in the early days as the "aviators astragalus". Early planes were controlled with transverse metal petals leading to talar neck fractures after "rough landings" Unfortunately this fracture frequently leads to avascular necrosis of the body of the talus(bottom half of ankle joint)

I am sure the exact nature of his injuries will remain out of the public domain. He had fasciotomies done to prevent compartment syndromes that may require skin grafting or delayed closure so more surgery is assured. He may also need repeat wound debridement or rotation of composite flaps

He was treated at a Level1 trauma center so these injuries are seen frequently
 
Hyundai and its sister brand Kia are knocking it out of the park. The Palisade and Telluride SUVs are best-in-class, and their reliability and safety ratings are tops. Genesis already is very competitive with Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc. in the premium market. They just have to overcome the now-outdated poor perception of the brand from back in the day when they used to make crappy cars.

I have a Kia Tulleride on order replacing my wife's Jeep. The Telluride is the best SUV (in the medium price range market) we tested when thinking about what would replace the Jeep. As the owner of multiple BMWs (I have a 650i convertible presently), my opinion is that the Genesis is one awesome vehicle - the fit and finish is just excellent. Five years ago, I rented a Kia something. It was the crapiest, tinniest sounding car I had ever driven. Who would have believed that Kia and Hyundai would produce these outstanding vehicles compared to what they had 5 years ago?
 
I have a Kia Tulleride on order replacing my wife's Jeep. The Telluride is the best SUV (in the medium price range market) we tested when thinking about what would replace the Jeep. As the owner of multiple BMWs (I have a 650i convertible presently), my opinion is that the Genesis is one awesome vehicle - the fit and finish is just excellent. Five years ago, I rented a Kia something. It was the crapiest, tinniest sounding car I had ever driven. Who would have believed that Kia and Hyundai would produce these outstanding vehicles compared to what they had 5 years ago?


One of my vehicles is a Kia Rondo but I don't drive it in Alaska. It has served us well. We got it primarily for the 7 passenger seating to accommodate guests but the models that have replaced it no longer have that option.

I see that the Genesis SUV Tiger was driving does offer a 7 seat version with the higher priced 6 cylinder model. Apparently to get the extra seats one has to opt for a package that will bring the entry level price up to $65,000. Quite a difference from the approximate $20,000 that a Kia Rondo cost. Volvo has a 7-8 passenger model SUV that costs less and apparently offers more luggage room so that may be an alternative to consider when looking to replace the Kia. Trying to avoid the minivan route if at all possible as an SUV is easier to manage for parking.
 
I’m a huge Tiger fan and actually competed against him in the same field in the Western Amateur at Point-O-Woods CC many, many years ago. Seen him play live many times over the years including at Augusta. Everyone who knows the game, including the other greats, know that TW is best to ever hit a golf ball.

Tiger looked noticeably bad on the CBS telecast on Sunday from Rivera. He looked sleepy and out of it, and talked about his recent back surgery. No doubt the guy is in pain after his 5th spinal surgery. It’s well documented that he had a problem with pain killers after the last big surgery. Wouldn’t surprise me if he was on heavy prescription medicine at the time of the accident. He probably shouldn’t have traveled cross country for the tournament, but his foundation is the co-sponsor and he was involved in the trophy ceremony.

Now he has severe compound fractures in his legs that required emergency surgery just 2 months after spinal surgery. I pray this isn’t the end for the GOAT.

I remember Brian Keith was always driven to and from set when I knew his kids. And he was probably B list actor. I’m stunned Tiger drove himself. I would have expected him to have a driver.
 
One of my vehicles is a Kia Rondo but I don't drive it in Alaska. It has served us well. We got it primarily for the 7 passenger seating to accommodate guests but the models that have replaced it no longer have that option.

I see that the Genesis SUV Tiger was driving does offer a 7 seat version with the higher priced 6 cylinder model. Apparently to get the extra seats one has to opt for a package that will bring the entry level price up to $65,000. Quite a difference from the approximate $20,000 that a Kia Rondo cost. Volvo has a 7-8 passenger model SUV that costs less and apparently offers more luggage room so that may be an alternative to consider when looking to replace the Kia. Trying to avoid the minivan route if at all possible as an SUV is easier to manage for parking.
My wife has the 7 passenger Volvo XC90 and equipped properly it'll cost over 70k. Genesis GV80 is about 60-65k fully loaded.
 
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I have a Kia Tulleride on order replacing my wife's Jeep. The Telluride is the best SUV (in the medium price range market) we tested when thinking about what would replace the Jeep. As the owner of multiple BMWs (I have a 650i convertible presently), my opinion is that the Genesis is one awesome vehicle - the fit and finish is just excellent. Five years ago, I rented a Kia something. It was the crapiest, tinniest sounding car I had ever driven. Who would have believed that Kia and Hyundai would produce these outstanding vehicles compared to what they had 5 years ago?
I've driven several Hyundai and Kia cars as rentals over the years and you could see the improvement compared to 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago they were pretty solid and not inferior to Toyota or Nissan cars. I've looked at a number of reviews of the Telluride on YouTube and they're unanimously favorable and rate it best-in-class. Good choice @WaveJumper
 
My friend that owns all the car dealerships told me that the Hyundai Santa Fe was actually copied from the Lexus SUV
 
I remember Brian Keith was always driven to and from set when I knew his kids. And he was probably B list actor. I’m stunned Tiger drove himself. I would have expected him to have a driver.
Some people enjoy driving.

Since Tiger often seems to be under the influence of various substances, though, I would think a driver might be prudent.
 
My friend that owns all the car dealerships told me that the Hyundai Santa Fe was actually copied from the Lexus SUV
We bought a Santa Fe back in 2014 and still drive it. Almost at 100k miles now. Good car, no problems.
 
Some people enjoy driving.

Since Tiger often seems to be under the influence of various substances, though, I would think a driver might be prudent.

Last big story had him running into a tree. Maybe he should rethink his whole future in driving.
 
I remember Brian Keith was always driven to and from set when I knew his kids. And he was probably B list actor. I’m stunned Tiger drove himself. I would have expected him to have a driver.

Shocked Tiger didn't have a driver from the time he got off his jet until he left LA. Opting for the tournament courtesy car was really surprising.
 
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My friend that owns all the car dealerships told me that the Hyundai Santa Fe was actually copied from the Lexus SUV


All the comments on this thread about Hyundai got me to stop at the dealer yesterday. Really liked their Santa Fe but apparently in the U.S. market Hyundai no longer offers it with third row seating.

As for the Genesis, although they used to carry that line they no longer are allowed to without opening up a new and separate show room. A bit of trivia, here in Alaska we have no Accura for Genesis dealers. Only the Toyota dealer has met the requirements for an upscale line, leaving us with the Lexus to compete against Mercedes and BMW.
 
My wife has the 7 passenger Volvo XC90 and equipped properly it'll cost over 70k. Genesis GV80 is about 60-65k fully loaded.

To tell the truth one of the reasons I was considering the Volvo was as an excuse to do European Delivery. Purchased that way the two vehicles would be comparably priced along with getting complementary air travel to Gothenburg.

BMW just axed their European Delivery program so the only other option would be Mercedes, both programs we have taken advantage of in the past.
 
While the crash protection with the Genesis SUV was excellent, there is still a question of whether its handling ability at higher speeds, particularly going around curves, contributed to the accident. It appears to be a very top heavy vehicle. I don't the answer. Just asking the question.

Considering that the GV80 (not exactly a sports crossover) was able to do this at the Nurburgring, doubt the curve was an issue (unless Tiger was driving at an exorbitant speed, plus he's not a professional driver).

Plus, that stretch of road is notorious for accidents; been more than a dozen already since January.




There's a sportier GV70 that's about to launch here soon that's going after the Porsche Macan.


Is that what he was driving? I’ve heard Hyundai is really putting out solid cars. Have no idea of this is true.

Every Genesis model made Car & Driver's Editors' Choice list (as well as numerous Hyundai and Kia models), with the GV80 making the 10Best list (along with the Kia Telluride).

Not a single Lexus, Acura or Infiniti model made the Editors' Choice list.

Partly due to the reason that Lexus and Infiniti have let their RWD offerings get stale and all their crossovers are FWD.


Agreed. Brand is on the rise. With BMW increasingly losing market share due to its "boomer" perception and Mercedes refusing to innovate on the EV front, I'm expecting new money to continue to gain popularity with the Millennial and Gen Z population.

Both MB and BMW have been investing heavily in electrics, as is Hyundai/Kia/Genesis.

Kia stock went on a wild ride over the rumors of a partnership with Apple.

BMW enthusiasts haven't been happy with BMW these days due to the styling direction and their vehicles not quite being the driver's cars that they used to be (in particular, the steering feel/feedback).

Also doesn't hurt that the head of R&D at Genesis is Albert Biermann, the former head of BMW's M Division.



My wife has the 7 passenger Volvo XC90 and equipped properly it'll cost over 70k. Genesis GV80 is about 60-65k fully loaded.

The (current) top spec GV80 Prestige is around $71k - which are currently hard to find, so many dealerships have been charging a mark-up.

Should be a more powerful Sport and an all electric variants forthcoming.



My friend that owns all the car dealerships told me that the Hyundai Santa Fe was actually copied from the Lexus SUV

Only real similarity it has with the RX is that it's similar in size (a 2-row CUV on a FWD midsize platform).

The RX copied the Santa Fe by offering a 3rd row variant, except Lexus did it the cheap way by just extending the length behind the rear axle instead of lengthening the wheelbase. (the 3-row Santa Fe no longer exists as it has been replaced by the Palisade).
 
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Considering that the GV80 (not exactly a sports crossover) was able to do this at the Nurburgring, doubt the curve was an issue (unless Tiger was driving at an exorbitant speed, plus he's not a professional driver).

Plus, that stretch of road is notorious for accidents; been more than a dozen already since January.




There's a sportier GV70 that's about to launch here soon that's going after the Porsche Macan.




Every Genesis model made Car & Driver's Editors' Choice list (as well as numerous Hyundai and Kia models), with the GV80 making the 10Best list (along with the Kia Telluride).

Not a single Lexus, Acura or Infiniti model made the Editors' Choice list.

Partly due to the reason that Lexus and Infiniti have let their RWD offerings get stale and all their crossovers are FWD.




Both MB and BMW have been investing heavily in electrics, as is Hyundai/Kia/Genesis.

Kia stock went on a wild ride over the rumors of a partnership with Apple.

BMW enthusiasts haven't been happy with BMW these days due to the styling direction and their vehicles not quite being the driver's cars that they used to be (in particular, the steering feel/feedback).

Also doesn't hurt that the head of R&D at Genesis is Albert Biermann, the former head of BMW's M Division.





The (current) top spec GV80 Prestige is around $71k - which are currently hard to find, so many dealerships have been charging a mark-up.

Should be a more powerful Sport and an all electric variants forthcoming.





Only real similarity it has with the RX is that it's similar in size (a 2-row CUV on a FWD midsize platform).

The RX copied the Santa Fe by offering a 3rd row variant, except Lexus did it the cheap way by just extending the length behind the rear axle instead of lengthening the wheelbase. (the 3-row Santa Fe no longer exists as it has been replaced by the Palisade).
If we are
Going to go off topic, this is the way to go. Great stuff!
 
This take by an accident reconstruction expert is of note. Admittedly it is limited to opinions based upon the publicly available data, but does present some valid support for the premise that the vehicle flipped onto its side at the end when it hit a tree and did not roll over previously. Also the speed may not have been as significant a factor as first supposed.

With the expected data available from the pre airbag deployment recordings and even off of the infotainment system it is almost as if today's modern vehicles have incorporated a Black Box analogous to those on aircraft. Commercial vehicles have of course incorporated recording mechanisms for years to allow speed and trip data monitoring.

https://www.outkick.com/forensic-co...s-initial-tiger-woods-reports-are-misleading/

Apparently that additional reporting is now coming out. See the separate Tiger Woods thread.

And speaking of Tiger Woods, his past performances continue to get referenced in conjunction with current play. If I recall correctly, no less than Northwestern's Michael Wilbon was lauding Hideki Matsuyama's achievements this weekend by stating that he has an even greater entourage following him than Tiger Woods had and that he is even more famous in Japan than Tiger Woods is in America. An expressed opinion (not sure if it was Wilbon's though) was that taking home the Green Jacket from Atlanta this weekend will translate into one billion dollars for Matsuyama and his family once all the endorsement deals are taken into consideration. Assume this reporting was being referenced:

"Matsuyama’s victory is a huge deal internationally considering he is the first male Japanese golfer to win a major. It’s so big that ESPN analyst Andy North estimated that the victory could be worth $1 billion for Matsuyama." ESPN
 
I’m a huge Tiger fan and actually competed against him in the same field in the Western Amateur at Point-O-Woods CC many, many years ago. Seen him play live many times over the years including at Augusta. Everyone who knows the game, including the other greats, know that TW is best to ever hit a golf ball.

Tiger looked noticeably bad on the CBS telecast on Sunday from Rivera. He looked sleepy and out of it, and talked about his recent back surgery. No doubt the guy is in pain after his 5th spinal surgery. It’s well documented that he had a problem with pain killers after the last big surgery. Wouldn’t surprise me if he was on heavy prescription medicine at the time of the accident. He probably shouldn’t have traveled cross country for the tournament, but his foundation is the co-sponsor and he was involved in the trophy ceremony.

Now he has severe compound fractures in his legs that required emergency surgery just 2 months after spinal surgery. I pray this isn’t the end for the GOAT.
Small world. Point-O-Woods got my attention. Grew up in nearby Stevensville.
 
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The recent HBO documentary on him also pointed to his dabbling in Navy SEAL training (for fun!) when he was younger as a cause of some of his physical problems in later years. It was a really stupid thing to do for a guy who was otherwise so highly focused on passing Jack's win record wins in majors.
One does not dabble in Navy Seal training for fun. It is not fun. I trained in the SEALS Navy Underwater Swimmers School (aka frogmen) part of their training, and suggest it would be a pointless thing for someone to do unless they want to be a Navy diver.
 
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I remember Brian Keith was always driven to and from set when I knew his kids. And he was probably B list actor. I’m stunned Tiger drove himself. I would have expected him to have a driver.
But if you like driving... Hard to give up the control And it would have been the studio that picked up the tab for the Brian Keith driver, etc. Whereas Tiger would like have had to pay for car and driver. Could he afford it? Probably but for the studio, likely a write off but for Tiger.... Worth it if it allowed him to get business stuff done during the ride but harder if not
 
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Considering that the GV80 (not exactly a sports crossover) was able to do this at the Nurburgring, doubt the curve was an issue (unless Tiger was driving at an exorbitant speed, plus he's not a professional driver).

Plus, that stretch of road is notorious for accidents; been more than a dozen already since January.




There's a sportier GV70 that's about to launch here soon that's going after the Porsche Macan.




Every Genesis model made Car & Driver's Editors' Choice list (as well as numerous Hyundai and Kia models), with the GV80 making the 10Best list (along with the Kia Telluride).

Not a single Lexus, Acura or Infiniti model made the Editors' Choice list.

Partly due to the reason that Lexus and Infiniti have let their RWD offerings get stale and all their crossovers are FWD.




Both MB and BMW have been investing heavily in electrics, as is Hyundai/Kia/Genesis.

Kia stock went on a wild ride over the rumors of a partnership with Apple.

BMW enthusiasts haven't been happy with BMW these days due to the styling direction and their vehicles not quite being the driver's cars that they used to be (in particular, the steering feel/feedback).

Also doesn't hurt that the head of R&D at Genesis is Albert Biermann, the former head of BMW's M Division.





The (current) top spec GV80 Prestige is around $71k - which are currently hard to find, so many dealerships have been charging a mark-up.

Should be a more powerful Sport and an all electric variants forthcoming.





Only real similarity it has with the RX is that it's similar in size (a 2-row CUV on a FWD midsize platform).

The RX copied the Santa Fe by offering a 3rd row variant, except Lexus did it the cheap way by just extending the length behind the rear axle instead of lengthening the wheelbase. (the 3-row Santa Fe no longer exists as it has been replaced by the Palisade).
I should have clarified my post. He told me that in 2006 when we rented a Santa Fe in Ireland, so my post may not be relevant to today's market
 
Just completed watching the Emergency Responders' Press Conference regarding the Tiger Woods multiple rollover accident from earlier this morning. Both as an accident injury attorney who has worked with many experts analyzing vehicle accidents, and having been in a collision that totaled my own vehicle, certain reportings were of particular interest to me.

Foremost were some of the comments of Officer Gonzalez, the first person on the scene. He couldn't stress enough how significant it was to Tiger's survival that he was wearing his seat belt. His comments about how cars today are much "much safer than previously" with regard to how the passenger compartment remained intact despite the front of the vehicle being completely demolished also struck a personal note. ( I handled a case some years ago in which our identification of insufficient protection to the passenger compartment eventually led to the addition of side bars in the door panels by that manufacturer.)

Another aspect of the accident commented upon was how the specific location where the accident occurred was a trouble spot that has seen multiple collisions in the past. Of note was both the steep downgrade and curves that often led to vehicles exceeding the posted 45 mph speed for the somewhat rural roadway. The LAPD officer familiar with monitoring vehicles on that stretch of roadway commented he would encounter vehicles traveling 80 mph at the subject location. I appreciated his comment that "this can be a lesson to all of us" to drive slower in such circumstances. I could picture exactly what he was referring to having driven that road on multiple occasions myself.

Presumably more information will be released as to the specific injuries, which have been identified as serious and include present surgery involving his legs, it was reassuring to learn that Tiger was coherent at the scene and had survived what in the opinion of those from the police and fire departments could have been a fatal accident.

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Apparently "Extra, Extra" was there as well. (Correspondent Jennifer Lahmers?)

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You are right about the road. I grew up in P.V. and am familiar with that stretch of Hawthorne Blvd. (runs past our rival high school, incidentally). It is steep, but also a wide road which means you can gain a lot speed in a hurry without necessarily being completely aware of it, without hitting the gas at all.
 
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You are right about the road. I grew up in P.V. and am familiar with that stretch of Hawthorne Blvd. (runs past our rival high school, incidentally). It is steep, but also a wide road which means you can gain a lot speed in a hurry without necessarily being completely aware of it, without hitting the gas at all.
Especially if you're unconscious.
 
Considering the speed Tiger was going when he hit the tree and flipped down the embankment, he's lucky he didn't suffer far more serious injuries.

Going back to autos, the Genesis GV70, Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 will all be launching in the next few months/2nd half of the year.

Think all 3 will shake their segments as much as the Telluride has been able to do (there are people spending as much as $70k out the door for their Telluride).
 
Think all 3 will shake their segments as much as the Telluride has been able to do (there are people spending as much as $70k out the door for their Telluride).

Speaking of Kia products, the new Carnival MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) is in high demand even though it does not have AWD or Hybrid/Electric capacities. When they show up on dealer lots they are gone in hours.

I have yet to see one in person.

I did get a chance to test drive its direct competitor, the new Toyota Hybrid Sienna with its Prius like mileage figures coming in at 35-36 mpg. Also an impressive vehicle in the minivan segment.

Right now there is a chip shortage that has made almost all new vehicles precious. Lines have been shut down for weeks at many of the assembly plants. Here in Alaska the rental car companies have no new product coming in so summer rentals are at least twice the cost of last year, assuming you can even locate a rental car company with any cars at all.

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Speaking of Kia products, the new Carnival MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) is in high demand even though it does not have AWD or Hybrid/Electric capacities. When they show up on dealer lots they are gone in hours.

I have yet to see one in person.

I did get a chance to test drive its direct competitor, the new Toyota Hybrid Sienna with its Prius like mileage figures coming in at 35-36 mpg. Also an impressive vehicle in the minivan segment.

Right now there is a chip shortage that has made almost all new vehicles precious. Lines have been shut down for weeks at many of the assembly plants. Here in Alaska the rental car companies have no new product coming in so summer rentals are at least twice the cost of last year, assuming you can even locate a rental car company with any cars at all.

IMG_6565(1).jpg



Speaking of Kia products, the new Carnival MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) is in high demand even though it does not have AWD or Hybrid/Electric capacities. When they show up on dealer lots they are gone in hours.

For comparison to the new Sienna here is the Kia Carnival. Again, I have yet to see it in person.




IMG_8789.jpg
IMG_8848_(1).jpg
 
Speaking of Kia products, the new Carnival MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) is in high demand even though it does not have AWD or Hybrid/Electric capacities. When they show up on dealer lots they are gone in hours.

For comparison to the new Sienna here is the Kia Carnival. Again, I have yet to see it in person.





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IMG_8848_(1).jpg
Is that a car or a cruise liner?
 
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Is that a car or a cruise liner?
Reportedly, although a minivan disguised as a SUV, with all the seats folded down and/or taken out there is more interior room than in a Chevy Suburban!
 
Speaking of Kia products, the new Carnival MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) is in high demand even though it does not have AWD or Hybrid/Electric capacities. When they show up on dealer lots they are gone in hours.

For comparison to the new Sienna here is the Kia Carnival. Again, I have yet to see it in person.





IMG_8789.jpg
IMG_8848_(1).jpg
OK, finally got to see the all new Kia Carnival in person today for the first time. Included in Black is the top of the line version and in a very dark Gray the lower trim model. From the exterior the primary difference is seen in the grill treatment.

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KIA prides itself on having reimagined the Minivan to look like a SUV. Here is my SUV next to the new KIA "MVP" (Multi Purpose Vehicle.). Judge for yourself how successful the disguise works:

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Here are some added photos taken of the interior of the top end KIA Carnival:

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And here is an attempt to show the window sticker despite the sun's glare. At least the MPG is evident. Dealer mark up over MSRP is shown as close to $4,000. Gives an idea of how the chip scarcity has led to a sellers market for new vehicles of recent.

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Speaking of Kia products, the new Carnival MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) is in high demand even though it does not have AWD or Hybrid/Electric capacities. When they show up on dealer lots they are gone in hours.

For comparison to the new Sienna here is the Kia Carnival. Again, I have yet to see it in person.





IMG_8789.jpg
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How does Toyota get 245 HP out of a 2:5 l engine bock? That’s impressive.
 
How does Toyota get 245 HP out of a 2:5 l engine bock? That’s impressive.
The secret is that they are including horsepower generated by the electric motor also in the engine bay. On the four wheel drive versions there is yet another electric motor to engage the rear wheels. It operates by wire as there is no drive shaft between the front and rear.

Volvo's hybrid Recharge in the XC-90 T8 does something similar getting 400 horsepower with their turbo charged and supercharged in line four cylinder engine which is also coupled with an electric motor.

400 hp @ 6000 rpm

2021 Volvo XC90 Recharge Plug-In Hybrid T8 Inscription Specs & Features
Engine
Base engine size2.0 l
Horsepower400 hp @ 6000 rpm
Valves16
direct injectionyes
 
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All the comments on this thread about Hyundai got me to stop at the dealer yesterday. Really liked their Santa Fe but apparently in the U.S. market Hyundai no longer offers it with third row seating.

The 3 row SF was replaced by the Palisade.

For those who don't quite want something that size, the Sorento has 3 rows and is available as a hybrid and PHEV.


How does Toyota get 245 HP out of a 2:5 l engine bock? That’s impressive.

Genesis gets 300 hp out of its 2.5T and it's capable of more.

In FWD application, that 2.5T puts out 290 hp in the Sonata N-Line which is the quickest FWD mainstream ICE family sedan.

But that's still pales in comparison to the upcoming Kia EV which is quicker than most supercars.

In the lux/premium market, the ones to watch are Genesis and Mazda.

Mazda is moving upscale with RWD architecture and a straight 6.
 
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