Pardon and JVZ in conference games
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I'm curious to hear people speculate what will happen when Alex comes back. I'm especially interested after last night if Collins will be coaching the centers to be really aggressive as we will have so many fouls to give from the center position.
I think you nailed it: Collins will allow the centers to use all 15 fouls if necessary. Alex will start but he will go with the hot hand like he does with the wings. Will be quite a change to have 3 Big 10 capable Centers on the roster! We might not have had 3 different Big 10 capable Centers in in the last 20 seasons combined!
I think it's worth bearing in mind that Olah may be limited a bit in terms of minutes once he received clearance to play. I suppose it's possible that clearance will be withheld until he's able to play without restriction, but I think it's more likely that he'll be cleared to play once he's able to go, but with some understanding that his minutes should be somewhat limited anyway.
He may well be. But a similar injury doesn't seem to have limited JvZ's minutes in games, only in practice.
For me, this is such a tough one. Here's where my head goes with the assumption that Olah is reasonably well:
a) I'm not sure you can play a twin towers lineup much - maybe a VERY short time against the right matchup. I'm not sure any of them can defend more than six feet away from the basket.
b) I don't love it, but I'll go back to my theory that CC is loyal to experienced guys that have been loyal to him. The majority of the time will go to Olah unless it becomes so-incredibly-obvious he doesn't offer as much.
c) I think Pardon has such better hands and is so much more efficient and aggressive down low as well as a better defender, I'm not sure I would play Olah a whole lot more. Olah would really need to show me something to get significantly - key word - more minutes. I realize I'm in the minority about that one.
d) I think JVZ is the big loser in this whole scenario. I just don't know where you find the minutes. That's too bad. He's been a good camper. He's obviously a strong voice. But it's appropriate.
e) JVZ - 5 mins/game, DP - 10 mins/game, AO - 25 mins/game
tons more flow and quickness and good hands without Olah, especially when his confidence tanks after missing a few shots. Pardon "gets it". it will b interesting
Dude, Joey has by far the worst hands of the three. Alex improved markedly this season. You are using old tapes in his case.
Sometimes, I think it has bee suggested that Alex can play a little timidly and that it hurts his game not to be aggressive. He seemed a little more aggressive this year. My hope is he will really feel free to be a physical presence knowing that there are 15 fouls to go around. He also shouldn't be feeling a need to pace himself which should allow him to assert himself on other players as they fatigue.
My speculation: It could be the first time that a TV announcer uses the phrase "3 headed monster" to describe the center position at Northwestern!
I still think Olah starts and is planned for 10 along with JvZ. Pardon for 20. As game flow dictates - fouls, hot hand, etc - changes made. Assuming Olah remains #1 on depth chart based on performance, I think he goes up to 20+ in BTT and post-season with the balance distributed based on matchup and performance.
I would think the default is Olah, absent fouling out or a very hot Pardon. Obviously, JvZ is a liability at that point.
Even when he is cleared completely, he will not be in game shape so his minutes will still be limited. With three centers, I see him starting at 10-15 minutes and eventually get to 20 and then he might get more or less depending on hot hand
While I think Pardon will eventually get where you think he is right now, Olah is still probably the better option. On D, he knows where he needs to be. On O, he is more consistent. JVZ has been pretty steady. I see Olah getting to about 20 and the others dividing up the other 20
What a great problem to have if Alex can make it back. In past years, losing a player like Olah would have left us with a huge drop off at center. CC and his staff did a great job in recruiting JVZ and Pardon. In addition, Pardon was ready to step in when they burned his redshirt. Instead of excuses, we are receiving quality minutes and play. I hope Alex can return and cap off his career by helping us finish strong, but even if he is limited, we have capable players in JVZ and Pardon.
Do you really think that JVZ is a liability at this point? Is this the same guy who completes those alley-op dunks and block shots in the lane? Didn't think so.
ho
honestly, i really dont see where Olah helps us on offense. I like Alex but our offense really seems to get dragged down and slow when comparing how we are doin now and when we were barely beating fairfield and columbia. Im not surprised we are playing our best ball now. im not saying alex doesnt have value because he is more than a glorified luka but things flow so much better with the other two.
olah starts but i cant see him playing more than 20 minutes. Some opponents...he should play more and play when it matters but smaller quick guys eat him alive and in that case id think pardon will finish.
Yes, only because his free throwing shot is reallt bad. If im opposing coach, i hack the hell out of him. JvZ at the line takes the ball away from Mac and Co.
Btw - i like his game. I would like to see him at the 4 a little. But not at the
I dont see 20 unless necessary. Save your bullets til the end of the season when it rwally matters. But i think olah ends games unless pardon is on fire or olah has fouled out.
You said two things that make me think you don't watch NU hoops. Olah has by far the worst hands of the three. Also Pardon does have a nice free throw stroke. He split a couple the other night, but he's a very solid shooter at the line. I'm not sure that we've been watching the same team.
The twin towers theory might come in handy against MSU and Purdue (especially Purdue) with their big PFs. Other than that, not a good idea this year especially with Skelly filling the blue collar role well at 6-8.
I think Pardon will have a fine shot from at least mid-range in a couple of years if he develops like an Izzo player might (possible). He might see more 4 in the future if that happens.
I think Pardon will have a fine shot from at least mid-range in a couple of years if he develops like an Izzo player might (possible). He might see more 4 in the future if that happens.
Don't you think Olah is a better FT shooter? He worked up from 58% as a frosh to mid 70s. I don't think Pardon is mid 70s and certainly will not be on late 1-on-1s later this season. I play the percentages and experience.
I really don't see us using the twin towers approach. Pardon is a 5, and I can't imagine the coaches switching his position midseason for just a few minutes per game. I think Olah's injury will significantly limit his minutes, but I don't think JvZ is necessarily the loser here. Since conference play began, he has pulled a complete 180 from the non-conference season, especially the last two games, and the minutes have reflected that effort. He's even shooting 60% from the FT line! I think we were all so surprised by Pardon's game against Nebraska, but lineups with him in the game have been quite a bit worse defensively than when JvZ is in there.
Olah definitely plays at the end of games due to FT shooting ability and his defensive presence.
I always hate to cloud a good discussion with facts, but Olah is shooting 72% from the line so far. Pardon is only at 52% (56% in conference). JVZ has the worst looking shot and is only hitting 49%, but 60% in conference. As a veteran with the best FT numbers, a healthy Olah makes the most sense at crunch time.
Pardon doesn't come close to Olah as a free throw shooter. Pardon is a 60% shooter with inconsistent form. Olah is an 70+% shooter with smooth, consistent form. Last year, Olah led the Big Ten most of the year in free throw shooting in conference. When he's in a groove, he hits 10-12 in a row.
As long as they don't make you call glass on your free throws, he's coming around!
Pardon seems to have a nice stroke and I see him eventually being in the 75% range (as Olah is now) but at present, he is pretty up and down. He has been up and down on his shot as well. At NEB he hit everything but recently, he has not been as efficient. Olah is still the better option. With another year in the program for Pardon, maybe not, but for now he is
He is shooting 52% right now from the line. Olah is a 72% shooter from the line. Pardon looks like he will eventually get to the 70% mark but he is up and down right now. He is a true Frosh while Olah is a Sr with significant experience. Pardon will get his minutes. Nice luxury to have.
Pardon is only averaging 52% right now and since he hit a bunch in his game against NEB, have to think he is under 50% for the last 4 games. He will get there but not there yet. Pardon is a better O rebounder and he does seem to know what to do with it. Stronger and more assertive to the basket while Olah gives a bit more range. While Pardon is quicker, I have to feel that Olah knows where to be better. Nice problem to have
Olah and Pardon are two very different players. Collins can play matchup ball. I believe Olah has had a lot more success, in his career, against the taller centers like Hammons and Kamisky. In fact, I think his matchup against Hammons allowed us to sweep Purdue in 2013. Hammons had a decent game in 2014 against Olah but Olah definitely plays better and is our better option against big centers. However, against smaller, quick centers, Olah is a severe liability, gets confused and frustrated, and does lousy.
Also, without Olah, the pick and roll has found itself back at NU. I had a fella who knows basketball tell me that Olah just isn't fluid and is still learning the game, but operates on learned techniques like foot placement around the basket, etc. Thus, every time he gets the ball, his head immediately looks down to the floor and looks at his feet. This delay means he has to dribble the ball. Watch Pardon. Pardon has been playing BB since he was in diapers. He just flows and knows the game and where he is. When he gets the ball, he doesn't have to dribble it because the ball almost never comes below his chest and he moves quickly since he instinctually knows where the basket is and where his feet are. This has REALLY opened up Macintosh. Opposing centers have to have one guy VERY close to Pardon because Pardon isn't Olah. Olah just takes longer. Not because Olah is so slow, but because Olah routinely puts his head down and looks at his feet and does the 'one two dance' before he gets the ball off. Again, that takes up time so he has to bring the ball down to the floor. At any rate, I was expressing my frustrations with why Olah doesn't go to the rim and why he brings the ball down, and that's how it was explained to me......dude looks at his feet and puts his head down to chart his position.
Olah already came up big at the FT line this year. Against DePaul we were down three with under two minutes left and he buried both throws on a 1-and-1. If he misses the front end, we likely lose that game. He did miss a 1-and-1 against VaTech late though that almost burned us. I think Olah plays late in games, especially when we aren't in the double bonus from the freethrow line.
Yes he is probably better, but I don't think the percentages would be as drastic with a full season. I also think Pardon gets to the line a lot more often as his game is aggressive at the basket.
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