Pardon > Olah....but what happens if Olah comes back?

[Turk]

I know it is only two games but pardon appears phenomenal. I'm sure this opinion is challengeable but I think Collins knew Pardon had a better skillset than Olah but the difference wasnt great enuf to burn Pardon The Interruptions shirt.

For that reason, Pardon will most likely see steady minutes even when Olah comes back.
But how is it going to look? My opinion is that Olah and Pardon may play at the same time. Im nota BB guy so does that make sense or will we have a 3 headed center?

 

[NJCat83588]

I know it is only two games but pardon appears phenomenal. I'm sure this opinion is challengeable but I think Collins knew Pardon had a better skillset than Olah but the difference wasnt great enuf to burn Pardon The Interruptions shirt.

For that reason, Pardon will most likely see steady minutes even when Olah comes back.
But how is it going to look? My opinion is that Olah and Pardon may play at the same time. Im nota BB guy so does that make sense or will we have a 3 headed center?

All 3 guys are foul-prone so the minutes will sort themselves out. All 3 will get their time.

 

[Turk]

All 3 guys are foul-prone so the minutes will sort themselves out. All 3 will get their time.

our power forward spot is weak. why not have pardon secure that?

 

[NJCat83588]

our power forward spot is weak. why not have pardon secure that?

Because he is a back-to-the-bucket Center. I cannot see him moving the ball in space.

 

[Deeringfish]

I know it is only two games but pardon appears phenomenal. I'm sure this opinion is challengeable but I think Collins knew Pardon had a better skillset than Olah but the difference wasnt great enuf to burn Pardon The Interruptions shirt.

For that reason, Pardon will most likely see steady minutes even when Olah comes back.
But how is it going to look? My opinion is that Olah and Pardon may play at the same time. Im nota BB guy so does that make sense or will we have a 3 headed center?

I'm no BB expert but I'm pretty sure they study tape in BB as well as FB, and no offense to Pardon but when they get enough tape on Pardon they will scheme ways to shut him down. As a result they will spend less time on Olah, much to their shame.

 

[purplejustice]

I know it is only two games but pardon appears phenomenal. I'm sure this opinion is challengeable but I think Collins knew Pardon had a better skillset than Olah but the difference wasnt great enuf to burn Pardon The Interruptions shirt.

For that reason, Pardon will most likely see steady minutes even when Olah comes back.
But how is it going to look? My opinion is that Olah and Pardon may play at the same time. Im nota BB guy so does that make sense or will we have a 3 headed center?

This would be a great problem to have. CC will not mind having this problem. I wish we had this problem at every position.

 

[olshin]

Did you just complain about Northwestern basketball having too many talented players at a certain position? Just wait a year or two .....

 

[benoitdenizetl]

When Olah comes back, he and Pardon will split the center minutes. Van Zegeren may be the odd man out, unless both Olah and Pardon struggle. Van Zegeren has been inconsistent this year--he looked good last game (except at the line) but has looked bad in other games.

 

[willycat]

When Olah comes back, he and Pardon will split the center minutes. Van Zegeren may be the odd man out, unless both Olah and Pardon struggle. Van Zegeren has been inconsistent this year--he looked good last game (except at the line) but has looked bad in other games.

Might NU go to a twin towers offense at times, with Olah shooting from the outside?

 

[hdhntr1]

I know it is only two games but pardon appears phenomenal. I'm sure this opinion is challengeable but I think Collins knew Pardon had a better skillset than Olah but the difference wasnt great enuf to burn Pardon The Interruptions shirt.

For that reason, Pardon will most likely see steady minutes even when Olah comes back.
But how is it going to look? My opinion is that Olah and Pardon may play at the same time. Im nota BB guy so does that make sense or will we have a 3 headed center?

Pardon has an interesting skill set but Olah is still probably the best option. O works better and so does D. I would guess that Olah still gets around 20-25 minutes per game with Pardon getting 10-15. JVZ probably see his minutes cut a bit (FT shooting probably keeps him out at he end of games) but still adds.

 

[CommodoresAndCats]

Yea I also think that JVZ is going to be on the short end of the stick. Olah should start and Pardon should come off the bench. I don't see any two of the three making it on the court at the same time since Collins prefers to have four perimeter players around 1 big in his offense.

 

[benoitdenizetl]

Pardon has an interesting skill set but Olah is still probably the best option. O works better and so does D. I would guess that Olah still gets around 20-25 minutes per game with Pardon getting 10-15. JVZ probably see his minutes cut a bit (FT shooting probably keeps him out at he end of games) but still adds.

I'm not convinced that Olah is our better option, but I won't argue with him starting once he's healthy. I think Pardon is actually more disruptive on D than Olah and is a stronger and more intuitive rebounder. (Pardon has made some mistakes on D, yes, but he disrupts a lot of shots.) I also love Pardon's offensive abilities, though we only have three games on which to judge him. I'm guessing that Collins will play both, but I really hope Pardon gets more than 10 minutes. I LOVE Pardon's motor and confidence, and if our guards would do a better job of finding him down low, things could get very interesting.

 

[NJCat83588]

I'm not convinced that Olah is our better option, but I won't argue with him starting once he's healthy. I think Pardon is actually more disruptive on D than Olah and is a stronger and more intuitive rebounder. (Pardon has made some mistakes on D, yes, but he disrupts a lot of shots.) I also love Pardon's offensive abilities, though we only have three games on which to judge him. I'm guessing that Collins will play both, but I really hope Pardon gets more than 10 minutes. I LOVE Pardon's motor and confidence, and if our guards would do a better job of finding him down low, things could get very interesting.

My thoughts exactly. Pardon has been coached exceptionally well as a high school player. He is a much more intuitive player than Alex in the post. With AO's penchant for committing silly fouls I think Dererk will get his minutes.

 

[pawildcat]

I'm no BB expert but I'm pretty sure they study tape in BB as well as FB, and no offense to Pardon but when they get enough tape on Pardon they will scheme ways to shut him down. As a result they will spend less time on Olah, much to their shame.

Pretty hard to scheme against a guy that blocks out, grabs rebounds and puts them back in as Pardon seems to do. It's great if they start paying more attention to him. Bomb 'em with the three if they do (with the qualifier that we'd better hit more than 2-for-20 as we did against Maryland).

 

[NJCat83588]

Pretty hard to scheme against a guy that blocks out, grabs rebounds and puts them back in as Pardon seems to do. It's great if they start paying more attention to him. Bomb 'em with the three if they do (with the qualifier that we'd better hit more than 2-for-20 as we did against Maryland).

This. He's just playing within himself and taking what is ther for the taking. It isn't like the Cats are feeding him and he has a whole basket of post moves. Those will come, right now he's just keeping it simple.

 

[Sec.112]

As I said earlier in the year, I think Collins shows old-school loyalty to seniors which I have mixed feelings about. I think this will be the ultimate test. I'm interested to see where it goes.

I'm with Benoit's lack of conviction on this one. If it were me, I'd start Olah with the goal to share minutes depending on how well each is playing/matchup. However, in the last ten minutes of a close game, all loyalties and best-laid-plans are out the window.

 

[NJCat83588]

As I said earlier in the year, I think Collins shows old-school loyalty to seniors which I have mixed feelings about. .

What evidence convinces you of that? He pretty much buried Sobo on the bench last year. Demps and Olah are deservedly starting, out of merit not seniority as far as I can tell. Not a flame, just curious what you saw in the prior 2 years.....

 

[Sec.112]

What evidence convinces you of that? He pretty much buried Sobo on the bench last year. Demps and Olah are deservedly starting, out of merit not seniority as far as I can tell. Not a flame, just curious what you saw in the prior 2 years.....

Sobo is the perfect example. Yes, he buried Sobo, but only after he was given EVERY chance in the world in the 13-14 season. He was playing 20+ minutes three or four games into the conference season before his injury. I think there was also some CC-imposed time for "self-reflection" in a large middle portion of the season. Then, Sobo played 20+ minutes for the last five or six games of the season with not a whole lot to add. He was given opportunities up the ying yang.

I think you've seen it in how much time Demps received last year and this year ... especially this year. He NEVER came out last year. I mean, he's a good player, but 30+ minutes a game?

I think you've seen it with how Olah was handled before he was injured.

Having said all this, admittedly, I'm asking myself, "Well, who's the next man up behind each of these examples?" So maybe there is a reason. The Olah-Pardon example is a good test.

In general, I think CC is very supportive of all his players. One centerpiece of his coaching is that he wants to give most of them (Taphorn??) EVERY opportunity in the world to succeed/mess up (Saturday night's example: Lumpkin's shooting.) He constantly tells guys to keep shooting, even those who are in the middle of horrible nights. For me, that enthusiastic encouragement is the foundation of how he deals with experienced players. They get every opportunity - no matter the performance.

Part of me loves this traditional idea. Part of me hopes it changes as he grows as a coach.

 

[Dugan15]

Sec. 112 - Great thoughts. It is a challenging experiment, since there are no perfect analogies to test the senior loyalty hypothesis. Your recollection of the 13-14 Sobo year rings true with me. Demps this year is tough for the "next man up" question that you note and perhaps the Carmody-esque "The kids are 21 years old...of course they can play 35 minutes a game". My hunch for Coach Collins it is more the former than the latter.

 

[Gladeskat]

At the end of 13-14, Sobo played some major minutes and won a game or two from the free throw line. He had a fine finish to what otherwise was a dismal conference season for him.

I remember this because my favorite NU journalist, Nicky, predicted that Sobo would never play more than 5 minutes a game the entire season. He was adamant about crapping on Sobo for some pencil-necked reason.

 

[EvanstonCat]

As I said earlier in the year, I think Collins shows old-school loyalty to seniors which I have mixed feelings about. I think this will be the ultimate test. I'm interested to see where it goes.

I'm with Benoit's lack of conviction on this one. If it were me, I'd start Olah with the goal to share minutes depending on how well each is playing/matchup. However, in the last ten minutes of a close game, all loyalties and best-laid-plans are out the window.

Not sure I agree with that. Sobo found his way to the bench pretty quickly last year. Although you could argue (with questionable validity) that putting him out there and not playing Vassar might support your argument.

 

[hdhntr1]

W

Sobo is the perfect example. Yes, he buried Sobo, but only after he was given EVERY chance in the world in the 13-14 season. He was playing 20+ minutes three or four games into the conference season before his injury. I think there was also some CC-imposed time for "self-reflection" in a large middle portion of the season. Then, Sobo played 20+ minutes for the last five or six games of the season with not a whole lot to add. He was given opportunities up the ying yang.

I think you've seen it in how much time Demps received last year and this year ... especially this year. He NEVER came out last year. I mean, he's a good player, but 30+ minutes a game?

I think you've seen it with how Olah was handled before he was injured.

Having said all this, admittedly, I'm asking myself, "Well, who's the next man up behind each of these examples?" So maybe there is a reason. The Olah-Pardon example is a good test.

In general, I think CC is very supportive of all his players. One centerpiece of his coaching is that he wants to give most of them (Taphorn??) EVERY opportunity in the world to succeed/mess up (Saturday night's example: Lumpkin's shooting.) He constantly tells guys to keep shooting, even those who are in the middle of horrible nights. For me, that enthusiastic encouragement is the foundation of how he deals with experienced players. They get every opportunity - no matter the performance.

Part of me loves this traditional idea. Part of me hopes it changes as he grows as a coach.

ho is ready to step up and take Demps minutes? Ash still recovering. Lindsey? Olah was played a lot because he got the job done better than anyone else and he was pushed into more minutes when JVZ went down. Now that Pardon's shirt is burned and wanting to keep Olah Healthy, I see reduced minutes but prior to this it was not appropriate.

 

[purplejustice]

Any updates on Olah's condition? Any estimate on when he will be able to play?

 

[Turk]

At the end of 13-14, Sobo played some major minutes and won a game or two from the free throw line. He had a fine finish to what otherwise was a dismal conference season for him.

I remember this because my favorite NU journalist, Nicky, predicted that Sobo would never play more than 5 minutes a game the entire season. He was adamant about crapping on Sobo for some pencil-necked reason.

You talking about the poor kid who you unnecessarily abused through your drunken rants?

 

[Gladeskat]

You talking about the poor kid who you unnecessarily abused through your drunken rants?

The guy who needlessly posted my private information twice, for which he would have been fired IF I had reported him? The guy who ignorantly and needlessly crapped on NU athletes like Colter and Sobo? The guy who'd criticize scout team QB's for throwing interceptions to the starting defense when that's part of the Scout team QB's job?

Yup. That guy.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The guy who needlessly posted my private information twice, for which he would have been fired IF I had reported him? The guy who ignorantly and needlessly crapped on NU athletes like Colter and Sobo? The guy who'd criticize scout team QB's for throwing interceptions to the starting defense when that's part of the Scout team QB's job?

Yup. That guy.

I don't like Gladeskat when he goes into bully mode, but in this case, it was warranted.

 

[NJCat83588]

Any updates on Olah's condition? Any estimate on when he will be able to play?

Collins said yesterday that he is definitely out for Tonight. He is making progress but is not practicing and will be reevaluated at weeks end.

 

[Catreporter]

Collins said yesterday that he is definitely out for Tonight. He is making progress but is not practicing and will be reevaluated at weeks end.

Olah was shooting free throws in his boot before practice.

 

[FloridAlum]

I don't like Gladeskat when he goes into bully mode, but in this case, it was warranted.

I agree

 

[willycat]

Collins said yesterday that he is definitely out for Tonight. He is making progress but is not practicing and will be reevaluated at weeks end.

Hope t's sooner rather then later. Also when will Vassar find a new home and open up a ride for next season. Maybe a 1 or 2 ?

 

[shakes3858]

Because he is a back-to-the-bucket Center. I cannot see him moving the ball in space.

Could you see Olah playing the 4?

 

[hdhntr1]

Sec. 112 - Great thoughts. It is a challenging experiment, since there are no perfect analogies to test the senior loyalty hypothesis. Your recollection of the 13-14 Sobo year rings true with me. Demps this year is tough for the "next man up" question that you note and perhaps the Carmody-esque "The kids are 21 years old...of course they can play 35 minutes a game". My hunch for Coach Collins it is more the former than the latter.

Seniors who have played a lot bring a lot more to the table that Frosh simply cannot. It generally pays to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also in 2013/14, who else was CCC going to put in? We only had one true PG on the roster. Last year we had BMac and Sobo found himself coming off the bench as BMac had a better skill set for what Collins wanted to do. So while Seniors deserve the benefit of the doubt, if there is a clear advantage CCC does not appear married to them.

Olah and Pardon is a luxury. I think O and maybe D work better with Olah in right now. Plus the team seems more comfortable with how to use him. Pardon brings a different skill set. But I am not sure that the team really knows the best way to use him yet. (Collins probably does but I am less sure of his teammates) THat will change. He was really well coached. He keeps the ball high and goes straight to the basket and attacks with little wasted movement. Seems better at getting to the basket than any bigs I have seen at NU Both will get their minutes with Olah probably getting more. Real nice problem to have

 

[NJCat83588]

Could you see Olah playing the 4?

Offensively yes, but defensively NO.

 

[NJCat83588]

He was really well coached. He keeps the ball high and goes straight to the basket and attacks with little wasted movement. Seems better at getting to the basket than any bigs I have seen at NU Both will get their minutes with Olah probably getting more. Real nice problem to have

Really interesting to listen to Collins and Pardon yesterday. Dererk was a football player until he convinced his parents he could get a scholarship to play BB in college. Probably explains why he is comfortable playing with contact. Collins just raves about Dererk's potential. Give the interviews a listen if you have time.

 

[shakes3858]

Offensively yes, but defensively NO.

I agree... but could Olah play the 4 on offense and the 5 on defense while Pardon plays the 4 on defense and the 5 on offense? I originally had this plan with JVZ.

 

[NJCat83588]

I agree... but could Olah play the 4 on offense and the 5 on defense while Pardon plays the 4 on defense and the 5 on offense? I originally had this plan with JVZ.

It could happen, but I doubt it would be effective with the mobility of most 4's in the Big 10. Alex, Dererk and Joey are Centers for a reason.

 

[shakes3858]

It could happen, but I doubt it would be effective with the mobility of most 4's in the Big 10. Alex, Dererk and Joey are Centers for a reason.

Again I'm with you that Olah, Pardon, and Joey are Centers for a reason, but Skelly is getting getting 13.5 minutes a game playing in 13/15 games this season. Some of that was in a back up center role pre-burning Pardon's shirt and while JVZ was out. He's averaging 6 minutes a night in Big Ten games. If all 3 centers are healthy, what is better offensively?
McIntosh, Demps, Falzon, Skelly, Olah
McIntosh, Demps, Falzon, Olah, Pardon

What's better defensively?
McIntosh, Demps, Lindsey, Skelly, Olah
McIntosh, Demps, Lindsey, JVZ, Olah

I like the second line up for 6-8 minutes a night in both cases.

 

[NJCat83588]

Again I'm with you that Olah, Pardon, and Joey are Centers for a reason, but Skelly is getting getting 13.5 minutes a game playing in 13/15 games this season. Some of that was in a back up center role pre-burning Pardon's shirt and while JVZ was out. He's averaging 6 minutes a night in Big Ten games. If all 3 centers are healthy, what is better offensively?
McIntosh, Demps, Falzon, Skelly, Olah
McIntosh, Demps, Falzon, Olah, Pardon

What's better defensively?
McIntosh, Demps, Lindsey, Skelly, Olah
McIntosh, Demps, Lindsey, JVZ, Olah

I like the second line up for 6-8 minutes a night in both cases.

I'm with you that offensively the second option looks better, but probably is offset by a lack of defense on the perimeter. Would be fun to watch though.

 

[shakes3858]

I'm with you that offensively the second option looks better, but probably is offset by a lack of defense on the perimeter. Would be fun to watch though.

I think that's a lot of length in a 2-3 zone and they'd be a nightmare. Do you see Skelly being quicker laterally than Pardon and JVZ? For sure Olah, but I'd say JVZ is quicker especially when healthy. Not sure on Pardon.

 

[NJCat83588]

I think that's a lot of length in a 2-3 zone and they'd be a nightmare. Do you see Skelly being quicker laterally than Pardon and JVZ? For sure Olah, but I'd say JVZ is quicker especially when healthy. Not sure on Pardon.

Yes, I see Skelly as quicker than either Joey or Dererk on the wing. He's also a better passer.. But his ability to score around the basket is way worse than Dererk. Joey has questionable hands but when he collects the ball he knows how to flush it.