Phil Steele on turnovers = turnarounds

[torque-cat]

http://plus.philsteele.com/Blogs/Blog_PDFs_Images/2018/DBJuly24/TO_Equal_Turnaround.pdf

Data driven approach showing the variability of turnovers year to year. Yes, we may be a bit better than most at protecting the ball and causing turnovers, but in the long run there is quite a bit of random variation involved and teams that have very good or very bad TO differentials one year typically will revert the following year and over time.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The 2018 Bears created 36 turnovers, driven 27 interceptions. I wonder if interceptions might be more of a repeatable “skill” than forced fumbles (Peanut Tillman withstanding)

 

[Smolmania]

When is the narrative on the "Peanut punch" just going to go away? Does anyone realize that the reason Tillmon was able to punch so many balls out from behind was because he was getting beaten so often? CT should have taken the Rodney Harrison/Rod Woodson path and moved to safety the last five years of his career. That way his tackling ability would have been an asset, and not a means of covering up his patent deficiencies as a pass defender!

 

[corbi296]

When is the narrative on the "Peanut punch" just going to go away? Does anyone realize that the reason Tillmon was able to punch so many balls out from behind was because he was getting beaten so often? CT should have taken the Rodney Harrison/Rod Woodson path and moved to safety the last five years of his career. That way his tackling ability would have been an asset, and not a means of covering up his patent deficiencies as a pass defender!

What? A really bad take. Tillman was a border line hall of fame CB in my opinion. You do realize that the Tampa 2 defense Tillman played in the majority of his career was designed to give up short passes in front of the corners and have CBs who could rally to the ball, be sure tacklers and look to strip the ballcarrier at every opportunity? The limited times he was left in man coverage, Tilllman was excellent. Why don’t you ask Calvin Johnson which CB was his toughest match up.

 

[Smolmania]

For the first half of his career, rallying and punching by Tillmon was his forte. The last few years, not so much. And Johnson had far more difficulty against Charles Woodson, a division foe, than he ever did against Peanut.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

For the first half of his career, rallying and punching by Tillmon was his forte. The last few years, not so much. And Johnson had far more difficulty against Charles Woodson, a division foe, than he ever did against Peanut.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/calvin-johnson-charles-tillman-letter-nfl-bears-lions

And Tillman forced 10 fumbles in 2012 at 31 years old. On my phone so can’t do the math myself, but seems like he forced a bunch more fumbles in the second half of his career:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TillCh20.htm

 

[Hungry Jack]

When is the narrative on the "Peanut punch" just going to go away? Does anyone realize that the reason Tillmon was able to punch so many balls out from behind was because he was getting beaten so often? CT should have taken the Rodney Harrison/Rod Woodson path and moved to safety the last five years of his career. That way his tackling ability would have been an asset, and not a means of covering up his patent deficiencies as a pass defender!

Peanut punch had little to do with him playing CB. Agree that he would have been effective at safety late in his career.

And megatron gave a lot of guys trouble

 

[Smolmania]

Yes, later in his career, CT definitely caused more fumbles than early on. But from the view on my couch that wasn't because of an improved or refined technique for getting the ball out. I saw late career Tillmon getting beat consistently, and recovering from behind to punch balls out.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Yes, later in his career, CT definitely caused more fumbles than early on. But from the view on my couch that wasn't because of an improved or refined technique for getting the ball out. I saw late career Tillmon getting beat consistently, and recovering from behind to punch balls out.

Come on now. Dude was all-pro in 2012...

 

[Hungry Jack]

Who is "Tillmon"?

 

[epicbret]

What a terribly uninformed opinion.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

When is the narrative on the "Peanut punch" just going to go away? Does anyone realize that the reason Tillmon was able to punch so many balls out from behind was because he was getting beaten so often? CT should have taken the Rodney Harrison/Rod Woodson path and moved to safety the last five years of his career. That way his tackling ability would have been an asset, and not a means of covering up his patent deficiencies as a pass defender!

For a Minute here, I thought Clayton was moved to DB.

 

[corbi296]

For the first half of his career, rallying and punching by Tillmon was his forte. The last few years, not so much. And Johnson had far more difficulty against Charles Woodson, a division foe, than he ever did against Peanut.

Just because Tillman could have been a great safety, doean’t Mean he wasn’t an outstanding corner. He certainly was that and his play was outstanding throughout his career. Maybe Charles Woodson, a hall of famer, was a tougher matchup for Johnson but i fail to see how that statement helps your arguement.

 

[ricko654321]

Just because Tillman could have been a great safety, doean’t Mean he wasn’t an outstanding corner. He certainly was that and his play was outstanding throughout his career. Maybe Charles Woodson, a hall of famer, was a tougher matchup for Johnson but i fail to see how that statement helps your arguement.

His argument isn’t worth debating with haha. You made your point, and I think 90% of people would agree you’re right. Peanut wasn’t perfect but he was darned good. And there are plenty of NFL secondary players that had “deficiencies in coverage”, I don’t recall many or any forcing as many turnovers or having as successful a career as Tillman. Plus a genuinely good dude.

 

[hdhntr1]

When is the narrative on the "Peanut punch" just going to go away? Does anyone realize that the reason Tillmon was able to punch so many balls out from behind was because he was getting beaten so often? CT should have taken the Rodney Harrison/Rod Woodson path and moved to safety the last five years of his career. That way his tackling ability would have been an asset, and not a means of covering up his patent deficiencies as a pass defender!

Turnovers make more of a difference in outcome of games than anything else. Tillman was not perfect but who is? And those turnovers made more of a difference