Some more observations

[DaCat]

Watched the replay of the game on BTN.

- North still struggles with the snaps. On Thorson's fumble before halftime, the snap was a low line drive and Clayton never got a good grip before fumbling. Park replaced North at center and the snapping issues went away. Don't know if it's a Steve Sax mental block for North or not but we've never had this problem since going to the spread.

- Clearly saw Thorson going through his progression in the second half. On one play his strike to McHugh for a 20 yarder on a slant was his 3rd option. This game was a big step for him.

- We nearly sacked Neal 3 or 4 times but he escaped. It wasn't so much poor tackling on our part but really good running by Neal.

- Ball State pushed our DL around more than any of the 3 previous opponents.

- Not to disparage Terence Brown but we definitely missed Godwin and Kyle, especially in run support and yards after catch situations.

- Saw a lot of true frosh Jordan Thompson at DT and he seemed to play really well.

- Jaylen Prater played really well. If he stays healthy he could be one of the better linebackers to play in the program, yes even better than Ben Johnson. I think he is our second best LB behind Anthony Walker. Takes good angles and is very fast.

- Play calling is a little predictable in this way -- if there is successful play, more times than not McCall will go to the same player immediately on the next play. After the JJ 62-yard run, he goes right back to him for about a 2 yard gain. I called it out even when I first watched the game.

- This was a trap game for and we were fortunate to escape with the win. Hopefully Clayton emerged a better QB than when he started the game.

 

[mybrotha]

My good man +1 as all your points are salient!
Now let me add a couple as well. I really second the comment about McCall. I believe he also needs to get Thorson in rhythm as well. Throw on first down, but nice and easy. Get the kid into a groove and build his confidence, in essence let the pass set up the run. We are already a good rushing team, imagine what could happen if our opponents had to respect our passing game.
I really would like to see someone other than Miles Shuler returning punts. He just doesn't do anything on returns. He's a good athlete but doesn't see blocks well and never looks fast on returns. If Vault is okay for kick offs why not punt returns because he truly is a threat.
No more long passes to Shuler. I am not trying to beat the kid up but the over the shoulder touchdown that he had go right through his hands against Ball State is something that we have seen before. He's great in the short passing game though and oddly has made some great catches.
I would like to see McCall use Auston Anderson more. This guy is dynamite in a bottle. Yes I know it was EIU that he did well against but with him out there along with Vault, Shuler and perhaps Roberts you are talking about some serious speed and speed as they say kills.

 

[Bwm57]

I too noticed the erratic snaps in shotgun. One snap at the knees and the next one shoulder height and two feet to the right. It's hard for a QB to get a smooth start to a play when they have to worry about making adjustments to catch the snaps.

 

[DaCat]

I'm concerned that the snapping issues for North are in his head and not mechanical. Park doesn't have these issues. In Brandon Vitabile's entire 4 year tenure as center, I don't recall this many bad snaps as we have seen already this year.

 

[phatcat]

Watched the replay of the game on BTN.

- Play calling is a little predictable in this way -- if there is successful play, more times than not McCall will go to the same player immediately on the next play. After the JJ 62-yard run, he goes right back to him for about a 2 yard gain. I called it out even when I first watched the game.
.

It's a little misleading to say that he goes to the same player after a successful play, since Jackson clearly skews that statistic (/s) "Justin Jackson the ball carrier"

 

[ricko654321]

It's a little misleading to say that he goes to the same player after a successful play, since Jackson clearly skews that statistic (/s) "Justin Jackson the ball carrier"

Yea I think it's less how you described it (goes to same player after a successful play), and more that McCall overwhelmingly runs on first down, and even more so if we do the hurry up after a successful play. He started to break that tendency in the second half a bit though which helped. And the 1st down balance wasn't as skewed as it was against Duke, so that's progress. Once we mixed up play calling we had much more success - though that was in large part due to Clayton playing much better also.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

I said this before, but if my completely untrained eye can predict a playcall, then I'm sure a B1G defensive coordinator can. Maybe it's because I know the Cats inside and out, but on 3rd and 4th down I can guess what the Cats will run about 75% of the time it seems like

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Watched the replay of the game on BTN.

- North still struggles with the snaps. On Thorson's fumble before halftime, the snap was a low line drive and Clayton never got a good grip before fumbling. Park replaced North at center and the snapping issues went away. Don't know if it's a Steve Sax mental block for North or not but we've never had this problem since going to the spread.

- Clearly saw Thorson going through his progression in the second half. On one play his strike to McHugh for a 20 yarder on a slant was his 3rd option. This game was a big step for him.

- We nearly sacked Neal 3 or 4 times but he escaped. It wasn't so much poor tackling on our part but really good running by Neal.

- Ball State pushed our DL around more than any of the 3 previous opponents.

- Not to disparage Terence Brown but we definitely missed Godwin and Kyle, especially in run support and yards after catch situations.

- Saw a lot of true frosh Jordan Thompson at DT and he seemed to play really well.

- Jaylen Prater played really well. If he stays healthy he could be one of the better linebackers to play in the program, yes even better than Ben Johnson. I think he is our second best LB behind Anthony Walker. Takes good angles and is very fast.

- Play calling is a little predictable in this way -- if there is successful play, more times than not McCall will go to the same player immediately on the next play. After the JJ 62-yard run, he goes right back to him for about a 2 yard gain. I called it out even when I first watched the game.

- This was a trap game for and we were fortunate to escape with the win. Hopefully Clayton emerged a better QB than when he started the game.

Good points DaCat! I like Neal and he reminded me of the Cal QB! Still, if that kid played in the BT,he would be injured by the 10th game of the season. Pro prospect for sure. Kid would make OSU better right now! I like Thorsen better. Solid arm. He slung the ball well in third quarter. Snaps that are are too low or high have killed drives. Fix this asap.

 

[willycat]

It's a little misleading to say that he goes to the same player after a successful play, since Jackson clearly skews that statistic (/s) "Justin Jackson the ball carrier"

Another thing that was odd was that JJ was still in the game after that long run. Usually a RB is given a breather after a 40, 50 or 60 yard run.

 

[willycat]

It's a little misleading to say that he goes to the same player after a successful play, since Jackson clearly skews that statistic (/s) "Justin Jackson the ball carrier"

Another thing that was odd was that JJ was still in the game after that long run. Usually a RB is given a breather after a 40, 50 or 60 yard run.

 

[Deeringfish]

Another thing that was odd was that JJ was still in the game after that long run. Usually a RB is given a breather after a 40, 50 or 60 yard run.

Yes, I thought that was really a poor call. Of course JJ wants to be in the game all the time but the coaches need to be wiser than he is. That is were I would have liked to see AA come in or something but JJ is likely going to get so beat up that his performance drops off and then what?

 

[Hungry Jack]

- Jaylen Prater played really well. If he stays healthy he could be one of the better linebackers to play in the program, yes even better than Ben Johnson. I think he is our second best LB behind Anthony Walker. Takes good angles and is very fast.

Better than Johnson? That's a high bar.

I haven't scrutinized Prater, but I have witnessed what I think is poor technique in terms of breaking down at the point and overrunning tackles. Or at least that is what I think I saw, but perhaps I am being overcritical. In the Duke game, the Sirk TD run was a play where Prater saw Sirk tuck the ball, and Prater ran to the spot, only to have Sirk cut inside him. Prater was right there, but didn't break down in time. I think it was against Stanford he overran at least one sack.

But he certainly is mobile and generally tackles well. We have some young talent at LB with Fox, Vitale, Hall, and Quiero, and I sometimes wonder if Prater might be challenged for the WILL job.

 

[hdhntr1]

Watched the replay of the game on BTN.

- North still struggles with the snaps. On Thorson's fumble before halftime, the snap was a low line drive and Clayton never got a good grip before fumbling. Park replaced North at center and the snapping issues went away. Don't know if it's a Steve Sax mental block for North or not but we've never had this problem since going to the spread.

- Clearly saw Thorson going through his progression in the second half. On one play his strike to McHugh for a 20 yarder on a slant was his 3rd option. This game was a big step for him.

- We nearly sacked Neal 3 or 4 times but he escaped. It wasn't so much poor tackling on our part but really good running by Neal.

- Ball State pushed our DL around more than any of the 3 previous opponents.

- Not to disparage Terence Brown but we definitely missed Godwin and Kyle, especially in run support and yards after catch situations.

- Saw a lot of true frosh Jordan Thompson at DT and he seemed to play really well.

- Jaylen Prater played really well. If he stays healthy he could be one of the better linebackers to play in the program, yes even better than Ben Johnson. I think he is our second best LB behind Anthony Walker. Takes good angles and is very fast.

- Play calling is a little predictable in this way -- if there is successful play, more times than not McCall will go to the same player immediately on the next play. After the JJ 62-yard run, he goes right back to him for about a 2 yard gain. I called it out even when I first watched the game.

- This was a trap game for and we were fortunate to escape with the win. Hopefully Clayton emerged a better QB than when he started the game.

It also seemed that some of the snaps were not directly back but off to the side as well as low. Has to be cleaned up as throws off the timing of everything.

Holding that was never called also allowed Neal to escape.

Agree on the play calling being predictable particularly in the Red Zone

 

[wildcatpn]

The bad snap on Thorson's fumble before halftime was by Park. North was playing left guard. Park had a couple bad snaps during the game.

 

[Figrating]

> No more long passes to Shuler. I am not trying to beat the kid up but the over the shoulder touchdown that he had go right through his hands against Ball State is something that we have seen before. He's great in the short passing game though and oddly has made some great catches. <

Here's a guy that can get behind deep defenders consistently. Yes, he's dropped a few long passes and we're all frustrated by it. OTOH, spending 30 minutes a practice catching passes over the shoulder - for the rest of the season - should improve his technique. Shuler is a weapon that needs coaching. It's too early to give up on him.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

I think with Shuler it's more a case of the yips than anything. You can take a million reps, but it's tough to overcome the mental block

 

[ricko654321]

Better than Johnson? That's a high bar.

I haven't scrutinized Prater, but I have witnessed what I think is poor technique in terms of breaking down at the point and overrunning tackles. Or at least that is what I think I saw, but perhaps I am being overcritical. In the Duke game, the Sirk TD run was a play where Prater saw Sirk tuck the ball, and Prater ran to the spot, only to have Sirk cut inside him. Prater was right there, but didn't break down in time. I think it was against Stanford he overran at least one sack.

But he certainly is mobile and generally tackles well. We have some young talent at LB with Fox, Vitale, Hall, and Quiero, and I sometimes wonder if Prater might be challenged for the WILL job.

I agree... now I haven't done detailed film review of Prater and Smith by any means, but from my casual observation our OLBs are the closest thing to a weakness in our defense - at least before the injuries elsewhere. Not saying they are bad cause they aren't, but I've seen both get beat in 1 on 1s in space a couple times, and they often seem to me to be reading rather than anticipating - and as a result a step slower than Walker and our excellent DBs in making plays on the ball.

Especially with the injuries reducing depth in our secondary (and limiting our options for nickel packages), those OLBs will be crucially important in defending many of the run oriented teams in the B1G West.

And I suspect other OCs will start to (or already have started to) devote additional resources to blocking Walker. Eg I was wondering if Ball St was having an extra lineman come over the top to neutralize Walker on the read option plays, and that was why Hank adjusted to have the backside OLB crash behind the backside DE so the DE was free to chase the RB down the LOS to the play side while the OLB stayed on the QB? Cause in the past we've usually had the DE stay on responsibility for the QB. Could also be because Neal was faster than most QBs who have run read option against us, not sure.

 

[KramerCat91]

> No more long passes to Shuler. I am not trying to beat the kid up but the over the shoulder touchdown that he had go right through his hands against Ball State is something that we have seen before. He's great in the short passing game though and oddly has made some great catches. <

Here's a guy that can get behind deep defenders consistently. Yes, he's dropped a few long passes and we're all frustrated by it. OTOH, spending 30 minutes a practice catching passes over the shoulder - for the rest of the season - should improve his technique. Shuler is a weapon that needs coaching. It's too early to give up on him.

Didn't Shuler catch a ball thrown over his shoulder against Stanford for about 20 years along the sideline?

 

[phatcat]

Didn't Shuler catch a ball thrown over his shoulder against Stanford for about 20 years along the sideline?

pretty sure it was INSIDE, where he did a long route right at the sideline and reached IN for the ball. Tough to tell from the stands but don't think it was over the shoulder

 

[Hungry Jack]

pretty sure it was INSIDE, where he did a long route right at the sideline and reached IN for the ball. Tough to tell from the stands but don't think it was over the shoulder

You can find it on YouTube. The ball was thrown to his outside shoulder as he was looking inside and angling in off the right sideline. He had to turn his head and body, and reach ahead to grab it. It was a remarkable catch, and one I thought he could not make.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

My good man +1 as all your points are salient!
Now let me add a couple as well. I really second the comment about McCall. I believe he also needs to get Thorson in rhythm as well. Throw on first down, but nice and easy. Get the kid into a groove and build his confidence, in essence let the pass set up the run. We are already a good rushing team, imagine what could happen if our opponents had to respect our passing game.
I really would like to see someone other than Miles Shuler returning punts. He just doesn't do anything on returns. He's a good athlete but doesn't see blocks well and never looks fast on returns. If Vault is okay for kick offs why not punt returns because he truly is a threat.
No more long passes to Shuler. I am not trying to beat the kid up but the over the shoulder touchdown that he had go right through his hands against Ball State is something that we have seen before. He's great in the short passing game though and oddly has made some great catches.
I would like to see McCall use Auston Anderson more. This guy is dynamite in a bottle. Yes I know it was EIU that he did well against but with him out there along with Vault, Shuler and perhaps Roberts you are talking about some serious speed and speed as they say kills.

Well said mybrotha! I hope Anderson steps in this week or next! We need some guys to pound the ball! We need clayton to feel comfortable. I agree.

 

[DaCat]

The bad snap on Thorson's fumble before halftime was by Park. North was playing left guard. Park had a couple bad snaps during the game.

I stand corrected. It was indeed Park on these snaps. That worries me, because we knew North was having these issues, and now Park too. Fire the coach! (j/k)

 

[gocatsgo2003]

pretty sure it was INSIDE, where he did a long route right at the sideline and reached IN for the ball. Tough to tell from the stands but don't think it was over the shoulder

Nope. Sideline catch over his outside shoulder.

 

[mybrotha]

> No more long passes to Shuler. I am not trying to beat the kid up but the over the shoulder touchdown that he had go right through his hands against Ball State is something that we have seen before. He's great in the short passing game though and oddly has made some great catches. <

Here's a guy that can get behind deep defenders consistently. Yes, he's dropped a few long passes and we're all frustrated by it. OTOH, spending 30 minutes a practice catching passes over the shoulder - for the rest of the season - should improve his technique. Shuler is a weapon that needs coaching. It's too early to give up on him.

Yes but he won't be spending 30 minutes a practice doing that. He could only do that on his own time. Practices are usually very regimented.

 

[mybrotha]

Didn't Shuler catch a ball thrown over his shoulder against Stanford for about 20 years along the sideline?

Yes he did, but I think there were guys right around him. I think he's best when he doesn't have time to think about the catch, he simply does it. Thus, that is why it looks like he has very good hands on the short passes.

 

[Deeringfish]

Yes but he won't be spending 30 minutes a practice doing that. He could only do that on his own time. Practices are usually very regimented.

At this level, the guys have to choose to spend extra time apart from the coaches practicing. The coaches have to be very careful not to orchestrate this and at the same time see that it happens.

 

[Wildcatfootball12]

Yes he did, but I think there were guys right around him. I think he's best when he doesn't have time to think about the catch, he simply does it. Thus, that is why it looks like he has very good hands on the short passes.

Not to be snarky, but this was the only long ball he has ever caught, and I would say he has been targeted 6-7 times including last year.