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Stanford's Secret to Success?

corbi296

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Sep 9, 2005
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This article seems to indicate that their Strength and Conditioning Coach deserves some of the credit because of remarkable improvement with injuries and games missed. We could use some of these techniques when you consider our poor track record in this area over the last several years. Hopefully this is an area that we are critically looking at during the offseason.

Strength and Conditioning
 
Sounds like Turley will be staying at Stanford.

But it should not be hard to copy Turley's methods. It's not like yoga and pilates are new to the world. Intuitively, the approach makes a lot of sense. Most of your man strength comes from your core, not extremity muscles. After years of being a weight room monkey, I dropped it all and started working out with a guy who has me flipping truck tires, swinging ketels, lifting 100lb medicine balls, etc. while incorporating flexibility and balance work. I have never felt better. My back no longer hurts, my shoulders don't hurt, my knees feel OK, and I feel as strong as ever.
 
Originally posted by Hungry Jack:
Sounds like Turley will be staying at Stanford.

But it should not be hard to copy Turley's methods. It's not like yoga and pilates are new to the world. Intuitively, the approach makes a lot of sense. Most of your man strength comes from your core, not extremity muscles. After years of being a weight room monkey, I dropped it all and started working out with a guy who has me flipping truck tires, swinging ketels, lifting 100lb medicine balls, etc. while incorporating flexibility and balance work. I have never felt better. My back no longer hurts, my shoulders don't hurt, my knees feel OK, and I feel as strong as ever.
Sounds like a Hans and Franz workout.

anigif_enhanced-7504-1409840659-7.gif
 
I used to push cars with a couple of guys who played Arena football. We'd go over to the parking lot in Lincoln Park near the tennis courts and go at it. Inevitably, some really well-meaning Mexican guys would come along and offer a jump. They thought we were crazy when we told them we were working out.


I haven't tried pulling a tank around the desert, but it looks like a good workout.
 
So Stanford team docs assert that a good strength coach can directly reduce season-ending injuries and games missed? And we have actual data to indicate that Stanford players have been injured at lower rates and making it through whole seasons? And it's not just all good/bad/dumb luck?
 
Apparently we haven't had it so bad recently. According to this Stanford blogger, NU was tied with Stanford at 8th best in average starts lost due to injury in 2011-2013.

Rule of Tree
 
I'd guess that only 20-30% of the variability of injuries can be attributed to the strength and conditioning regiment. At the end of the day, its still mostly luck if a player stays healthy or gets hurt. Even the best regiment cant keep a knee that goes completely the wrong direction form tearing an ACL (etc.)

That being said, you should obviously strive to be as well prepared to prevent injury as possible and I'm sure whatever the 'Cats are doing could be improved.
 
There has been a big push on precisely this topic by some key football alumni/donors - who have been beating this very drum for a few years now.
 
Originally posted by adayNU:
I'd guess that only 20-30% of the variability of injuries can be attributed to the strength and conditioning regiment. At the end of the day, its still mostly luck if a player stays healthy or gets hurt. Even the best regiment cant keep a knee that goes completely the wrong direction form tearing an ACL (etc.)

That being said, you should obviously strive to be as well prepared to prevent injury as possible and I'm sure whatever the 'Cats are doing could be improved.
Perhaps that's about right in terms of soft tissue or some freak injuries, but there's the other 70-80% of injuries that could be (at least somewhat) related to being unable to remain upright in a strong functional football-playing position. Routinely finding yourself knocked off balance (or off your feet) by stronger players or ending up at the bottom of piles (rather than the top of piles) due to a lack of brute physical strength and power more often puts you in compromising positions. The more often you are in compromising positions, the more probable it is that you'll get injured.

There's a reason physically weaker players (like QBs) avoid contact and stronger players (like running backs) do not. Running backs are generally stronger than QBs and able to absorb (and dish out) hits with lesser risk of injury.

Linebackers and safeties playing behind more physically dominant front four DTs and DEs are also less frequently coming face-to-face with 300+ pound offensive guards and tackles down field. (Here's a hint. When a 310 pound man collides with a 230 or 190 pound man, the 310 pounder is more likely to escape unscathed.)

Nails often bend in awkward and in unpredictable ways when hit. Hammers do not.

Our offensive line and interior defensive lines have not been particularly physical the past two seasons. Our linebackers (since Nwabusi who had some lead in his ass when he hit people) are athletic and can run, but they haven't been overly physical either.

I fear that certain training methods designed to improve flexibility, overall conditioning, improve laterall (somewhat nonfunctional strength) may have the unintended consequence of converting players from hammers into (more pliable) nails leading to an opposite than intended effect.

I have no empirical evidence of this, but I have plenty of personal anecdotal experience from playing defensive tackle at both a (weak) 230 and a (powerful) 295 pounds (and several stages in-between). The powerful (and less flexible) 295 pound version of me was far less injury prone than the (weaker yet more flexible) 230 pound version. The weaker version was more likely on the ground, under piles or being bent to the will of an opposing player. The 295 pound version was more likely bending his opponent (including 300+ pound offensive linemen) in awkward positions to suit my will and the guys playing on the 2nd line (LBs) and even 3rd line (safeties) were taking on fewer collisions with offensive lineman and/or downhill sprinting running backs.

I still think the best way to avoid classic football injuries is to be under control and upright. Being able to stay under control and upright is highly linked to your brute physical strength as well as the brute physical strength of your teammates around you IMO. Physically powerful teams do not have 35 (out of 85) scholarship players unable to play in the last game of the season due to injury.
 
I seem to remember a few years ago (maybe a lot of years ago, but post 1995) that we had the one of the better S&C programs and the team's ability to out play, out muscle, and out last their opponents was a key factor in our win/loss ratio. Anyone remember when that was?
 
Originally posted by MRCat95:
Originally posted by adayNU:
I'd guess that only 20-30% of the variability of injuries can be attributed to the strength and conditioning regiment. At the end of the day, its still mostly luck if a player stays healthy or gets hurt. Even the best regiment cant keep a knee that goes completely the wrong direction form tearing an ACL (etc.)

That being said, you should obviously strive to be as well prepared to prevent injury as possible and I'm sure whatever the 'Cats are doing could be improved.
Perhaps that's about right in terms of soft tissue or some freak injuries, but there's the other 70-80% of injuries that could be (at least somewhat) related to being unable to remain upright in a strong functional football-playing position. Routinely finding yourself knocked off balance (or off your feet) by stronger players or ending up at the bottom of piles (rather than the top of piles) due to a lack of brute physical strength and power more often puts you in compromising positions. The more often you are in compromising positions, the more probable it is that you'll get injured.

There's a reason physically weaker players (like QBs) avoid contact and stronger players (like running backs) do not. Running backs are generally stronger than QBs and able to absorb (and dish out) hits with lesser risk of injury.

Linebackers and safeties playing behind more physically dominant front four DTs and DEs are also less frequently coming face-to-face with 300+ pound offensive guards and tackles down field. (Here's a hint. When a 310 pound man collides with a 230 or 190 pound man, the 310 pounder is more likely to escape unscathed.)

Nails often bend in awkward and in unpredictable ways when hit. Hammers do not.

Our offensive line and interior defensive lines have not been particularly physical the past two seasons. Our linebackers (since Nwabusi who had some lead in his ass when he hit people) are athletic and can run, but they haven't been overly physical either.

I fear that certain training methods designed to improve flexibility, overall conditioning, improve laterall (somewhat nonfunctional strength) may have the unintended consequence of converting players from hammers into (more pliable) nails leading to an opposite than intended effect.

I have no empirical evidence of this, but I have plenty of personal anecdotal experience from playing defensive tackle at both a (weak) 230 and a (powerful) 295 pounds (and several stages in-between). The powerful (and less flexible) 295 pound version of me was far less injury prone than the (weaker yet more flexible) 230 pound version. The weaker version was more likely on the ground, under piles or being bent to the will of an opposing player. The 295 pound version was more likely bending his opponent (including 300+ pound offensive linemen) in awkward positions to suit my will and the guys playing on the 2nd line (LBs) and even 3rd line (safeties) were taking on fewer collisions with offensive lineman and/or downhill sprinting running backs.

I still think the best way to avoid classic football injuries is to be under control and upright. Being able to stay under control and upright is highly linked to your brute physical strength as well as the brute physical strength of your teammates around you IMO. Physically powerful teams do not have 35 (out of 85) scholarship players unable to play in the last game of the season due to injury.
Speaking as one with personal anecdotal experience as a Nail, I disagree that being at the bottom of the pile is typical of nail behavior and outcome. The guys at the bottom of the pile are usually those who played a more significant role in stopping the offensive play. They're usually the hammers. That is, unless you're talking about being on the bottom of a pile well distant from the tackled ball carrier.
 
Originally posted by Evanstonian:
Has our strength and conditioning program suffered since this guy left?
Barnett raved about LL as a strength coach. He was well liked by the players from what I knew as well. When I read about huge strength gains by guys like Lowry and Scott to get to a 400-pound bench press, I think to myself, "big whoop!". Every linemen by the time they're RSSophomores should be benching over 400 pounds. Walker expected that much of his linemen. I don't know how strong NU players are now, but I wonder if our current team can match the strength of our 1995-1996 teams.

Letting LL go was the last personnel change we've made. We had a fine 2012 season but it has been downhill ever since. I don't know if changing strength coaches has affected our strength stats or numbers of injuries, but it makes me wonder.



This post was edited on 1/5 5:52 PM by Gladeskat
 
Yes, I'm taking about (defensive) guys getting man-handled, mauled, pancaked or de-cleated by blockers (OL, TE or fullbacks) while the running back is off to races. These are the "unproductive piles".
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
The emphasis now is not on brute (400 pound benching), so they have far fewer 400 LB benchers.

The emphasis now is more about "functional strength" whatever that means. Based on the product on the field the past couple of seasons, "functional strength" appears to mean "not very strong."

In 1996, I think we perhaps had 1 out of 9 OL and DL starters that didn't bench press at least 400 (or very close). The one that didn't had several shoulder surgeries that prevented heavy weight training.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Little chocolate donuts

Perhaps it's time for you and Gladeskat to share your real training secret
 
Originally posted by MRCat95:
The emphasis now is not on brute (400 pound benching), so they have far fewer 400 LB benchers.

The emphasis now is more about "functional strength" whatever that means. Based on the product on the field the past couple of seasons, "functional strength" appears to mean "not very strong."

In 1996, I think we perhaps had 1 out of 9 OL and DL starters that didn't bench press at least 400 (or very close). The one that didn't had several shoulder surgeries that prevented heavy weight training.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Some of our players recently have been very strong. Arnfelt put up 37 reps at 225 lbs on his pro day. Frasier came in with excellent strength stats. However, both of these guys were serious lifters in high school. I look at the strength of most of our players coming out of high school and I can tell they never were involved in a serious lifting program in high school.
 
95-96 teams weren't necessarily strong. They were smart and disciplined.

I remember Walker was highly unflattering about the NU state of strength when he arrived. (Our punters at Miami are outbenching your lineman). But he kept LL and our program bounced back. Football is a funny thing. At age 45, I could manhandle Jack Lambert and Mean Joe Greene weight totals in their prime. So what? I wouldn't even know what hit me on the field. It's more than strength.

Yet strength matters. The equation is (in various mixtures as per position) : Strength + Technique + Speed + Agility + Instinct + Intelligence + Discipline + Game Plan. If you don't have strength, you better have a heck of a lot of the others.
95-96 had intelligence and discipline and technique. 2000 had game plan. Yet it is hard to last without strength.

For years, TCU has had the most successful small school model. Go for strength.
 
"At age 45, I could manhandle Jack Lambert and Mean Joe Greene weight totals in their prime."

Your handle belies this. I pictured you in your wire rim glasses, bent over in a chair reading scripture for next weeks sermon.
 
Originally posted by RevCat:

95-96 teams weren't necessarily strong. They were smart and disciplined.

I remember Walker was highly unflattering about the NU state of strength when he arrived. (Our punters at Miami are outbenching your lineman). But he kept LL and our program bounced back. Football is a funny thing. At age 45, I could manhandle Jack Lambert and Mean Joe Greene weight totals in their prime. So what? I wouldn't even know what hit me on the field. It's more than strength.

Yet strength matters. The equation is (in various mixtures as per position) : Strength + Technique + Speed + Agility + Instinct + Intelligence + Discipline + Game Plan. If you don't have strength, you better have a heck of a lot of the others.
95-96 had intelligence and discipline and technique. 2000 had game plan. Yet it is hard to last without strength.

For years, TCU has had the most successful small school model. Go for strength.
TCU also reportedly had some, let's just say, "assistance" in achieving those strength gains.
 
So true! We are all paradoxical. In so many ways, I feel that I am that pastor you picture. In spite of outward appearance.
 
Re: Little chocolate donuts

Glades has done his most significant work with 12 and 16 oz curls.
 
Re: Little chocolate donuts


Originally posted by hdhntr1:
Glades has done his most significant work with 12 and 16 oz curls.
I work out with the 32 oz and 40 oz weights too. I've got the stomach muscles to prove it.
 
Superior, physical play in the trenches.

********

Tim Drevno, officially announced as the team's new offensive coordinator Friday, is known to his former players as a broken record. When he and Harbaugh coached together at Stanford, Drevno was the most impersonated coach in the Cardinal locker room.

"Drevno was an easy target," said former Stanford captain Bo McNally. "He has two or three phrases that he said all the time. I'm sure it was very deliberate. 'Physical' was the word he repeated probably 7,000 times a day. Physical, physical, physical."

Whether it was through brainwashing or some other means, Drevno was one of the catalysts in creating Stanford's gritty, tough mentality that remains a staple of its new identity. He inherited a soft team that didn't know how to be tough, according to McNally, when he followed Harbaugh from San Diego to Palo Alto in 2007. They became West Coast bullies and a factory for NFL caliber offensive linemen and tight ends.

No one has worked side-by-side with Harbaugh as frequently as Drevno. The duo has teamed up at each stop since Harbaugh became a head coach in 2004. Last season, when Drevno left the NFL to coach the offensive line at USC, was the first time in a decade that they weren't together on the sideline. Drevno has played a big role in establishing the physical approach to offense that has remained a constant at each stop. He said to expect more of the same in Ann Arbor.

"We're going to try to move people off the ball," he told the school's website. "We're going to try to be a physical football team."

Tight ends were Drevno's first specialty at Stanford. The Cardinal offense came to depend on them, often using two or three of them at a time to assert their will on opposing defenses while keeping their passing options open. Four of Stanford's tight ends from that era -- Jonathan Martin.

******

Look for UM to turn their weak-point into a strength under Harbaugh and Drevno.

When the receiving corps was depleted was wondering why McCall didn't use 2-SB set more often and even use a 3rd at wideout at times (Vitale, Taylor and Dickerson are all supposedly pretty talented w/ the younger Dickerson having better hands than his brother).



B1G Blog/Drevno
 
Also, it's pretty amazing how much dOSU's O-line has improved from the beginning of the season after spending the off-season replacing 4 starters.


********

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Taylor Decker heard the doubters after Ohio State's offensive line couldn't block Virginia Tech in a Week 2 loss.

"A lot of people were against us after that loss," the junior left tackle said. "A lot of people said we couldn't play at this level, that we weren't good enough."

The group entered the 2014 season as a major question mark after losing four starters, and the Virginia Tech game seemed to solidify those concerns. The Buckeyes gave up seven sacks and rushed for just 108 yards on 40 carries against the Hokies' aggressive scheme.

But Ohio State is playing for the College Football Playoff National Championship presented by AT&T on Monday night versus Oregon in large part because its offensive line has developed into one of the best in the nation. That was obvious in last week's 42-35 semifinal win over Alabama in the Allstate Sugar Bowl, even though skeptics said the Buckeyes couldn't run up the middle against the Crimson Tide's massive defensive front.

Ohio State ran for 281 yards versus Alabama, which led the FBS in rushing defense during the regular season. The Crimson Tide hadn't allowed a 100-yard rusher all season until Ezekiel Elliottset a Sugar Bowl record with 230 yards. Elliott rumbled for 220 yards in his previous game against Wisconsin, another team that had one of the country's best rush defenses before getting bulldozed by the Buckeyes.

"The offensive line is opening up big holes for me," Elliott said.

The nature of Urban Meyer's offense is a power run game based out of a spread set, and it all starts with a strong effort up front. It took a while for this year's unit to jell because of youth and inexperience, but it is now operating at peak efficiency.

This group was a bit more of a project than Meyer's first two O-lines in Columbus. It includes a fifth-year senior in right tackle Pat Elflein, who proved himself in an emergency start in last year's Big Ten title game.

[/B]The line is perhaps personified by Boren, an undersized junior who Meyer thought might project as a fullback when he first saw him. Ohio State brought in Alabama transfer Chad Lindsay this summer as its potential starting center, but Boren just worked even harder to beat him out. That was nothing new for him. Boren is such a grinder that he helped plow snow all night for his family's business last winter, showing up for 6 a.m. workouts on little or no sleep.

The season didn't start out great for the offensive line, but Decker said the players never listened to critics or lost confidence. That's because they believed in position coach Ed Warriner. And rightly so. Warriner is a big reason three starters from last year's line -- Jack Mewhort, Andrew Norwell and Corey Linsley -- started in the NFL as rookies. Meyer will likely promote Warriner to offensive coordinator to replace Tom Herman after the national title game.

******


Look what dOSU's coaching staff was able to do w/ a make-shift O-line w/ young players or players who didn't play the position in HS, and the one returning starter, Decker, moved from right to left tackle.

And just b/c an O runs a spread set, doesn't mean that the O-line can't be tough and physical (even Oregon has toughened up its O-line).



B1G Blog/dOSU O-line
 
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