Team Recruiting Rankings since inception of 247 composite in 2003

[mikewebb68]

As a companion to my thread about individual players, I thought I would work on a overall/BIG recruiting rankings thread, starting with our team and then continuing with the other members of the BIG to see if I can learn anything from this exercise Here is ours:

2019: National Ranking: 35 BIG Ranking: 4
2018 National Ranking: 34 BIG Ranking: 7
2017 National Ranking: 136 BIG Ranking: 14
2016: National Ranking 58 BIG Ranking: 10
2015 National Ranking: 61 BIG Ranking: 12
2014 National Ranking: 49 BIG Ranking: 7
2013: National Ranking 112 BIG Ranking 13
2012: National Ranking 57 BIG Ranking: 7
2011: National Ranking: 110 BIG Ranking: 14
2010 National Ranking: 147 BIG Ranking: 12
2009 National Ranking: 290 BIG Ranking: 13
2008 National Ranking 44 BIG Ranking: 8
2007: National Ranking 87 BIG Ranking: 13
2006: National Ranking: 81 BIG Ranking: 13
2005: No commits
2004: National Ranking: 95 BIG Ranking: 11
2003: National Ranking 267 BIG Ranking: 13

A few things that jump out at me immediately:

1) Last two years have seen are best national rankings ever, and the first two consecutive seasons that we have NOT been in double digits in the BIG. This should pay dividends, since...
2) Our best two KenPom years (2010-11 and 2016-17) were exactly two years after our two best recruiting years from a ranking perspective to that point (2008 and 2014). If form holds, this bodes quite well for 2020-21 and 2021-22
3) Only sub-100 National Ranking in the last 6 years was the class in the year of the temporary move to Allstate. Guessing that was NOT a coincidence...

EDIT: It was pointed our that our 2017 ranking was so low due to the fact that we had only one open scholarship and thus could only take one player, which does reduce the ranking. And don't know if we could have done better than Gaines even if the new arena was ready...

Your thoughts? I will add other BIG teams when I can.

 

[IGNORE]

2019 is not done. I believe there are still uncommitted top recruits and when they sign it will shift the final numbers.

 

[mikewebb68]

2019 is not done. I believe there are still uncommitted top recruits and when they sign it will shift the final numbers.

Not going to shift significantly, if past years are any indication. There are only a handful in the 247 top-100 that are uncommitted, and none are predicted to go to the BIG.

https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

 

[DonatelloCat]

3) Only sub-100 National Ranking in the last 6 years was the class in the year of the temporary move to Allstate. Guessing that was NOT a coincidence...

I don't recall exactly where we were in terms of scholarships (and I'm sincerely hoping this doesn't divert the conversation to some of the controversial topics in that realm), but only have one recruit that year was a huge factor in our low rating.

 

[mikewebb68]

I don't recall exactly where we were in terms of scholarships (and I'm sincerely hoping this doesn't divert the conversation to some of the controversial topics in that realm), but only have one recruit that year was a huge factor in our low rating.

Indeed, I believe all other scholarship spots were taken, since we had 12 active players and one (Vassar) who counted against the 13-player limit. So Allstate was actually not a factor at all, thanks for pointing that out, I will edit the original post.

 

[mikewebb68]

OK, I am going to do this in order of their final KenPom ranking on the year, so next up is MSU:

2019: National Ranking: 22 BIG Ranking: 2
2018 National Ranking: 17 BIG Ranking: 4
2017 National Ranking: 49 BIG Ranking: 7
2016: National Ranking 3 BIG Ranking: 1
2015 National Ranking: 25 BIG Ranking: 3
2014 National Ranking: 40 BIG Ranking: 6
2013: National Ranking 79 BIG Ranking 10
2012: National Ranking 12 BIG Ranking: 3
2011: National Ranking: 19 BIG Ranking: 4
2010 National Ranking: 9 BIG Ranking: 2
2009 National Ranking: 42 BIG Ranking: 6
2008 National Ranking 10 BIG Ranking: 2
2007: National Ranking 10 BIG Ranking: 4
2006: National Ranking: 13 BIG Ranking: 3
2005: National Ranking:: 142 BIG Ranking: 8
2004: National Ranking: 13 BIG Ranking: 1
2003: National Ranking 25 BIG Ranking: 6

Some things that jump out at me immediately:

1) Easy to see whey they are a BIG title contender year after year and have made the Dance every year since 1997. Our best National recruiting ranking in the last 17 year would be their sixth WORST season...
2) We have closed the gap quite nicely in the last two years, though!
3) The BIG is a tough, tough conference in terms of recruiting talent. For all his elite National Rankings over the years, Izzo has had a top BIG recruiting class only twice since the inception of the 247 composite. Amazing...

Let me know your thoughts as always!

 

[freewillie07]

The better, though more difficult, way to measure recruiting per 247 is to compare the average score rather than the total score. This is especially true for NU in football (where the team is often in the 10th to 12th range overall but more like 7th or 8th on average), but I imagine it also smooths things out in basketball too.

 

[Vassar69]

The better, though more difficult, way to measure recruiting per 247 is to compare the average score rather than the total score. This is especially true for NU in football (where the team is often in the 10th to 12th range overall but more like 7th or 8th on average), but I imagine it also smooths things out in basketball too.

Agreed. Although the affect of quantity is obviously even larger in football, it does skew basketball results as well.

 

[hdhntr1]

As a companion to my thread about individual players, I thought I would work on a overall/BIG recruiting rankings thread, starting with our team and then continuing with the other members of the BIG to see if I can learn anything from this exercise Here is ours:

2019: National Ranking: 35 BIG Ranking: 4
2018 National Ranking: 34 BIG Ranking: 7
2017 National Ranking: 136 BIG Ranking: 14
2016: National Ranking 58 BIG Ranking: 10
2015 National Ranking: 61 BIG Ranking: 12
2014 National Ranking: 49 BIG Ranking: 7
2013: National Ranking 112 BIG Ranking 13
2012: National Ranking 57 BIG Ranking: 7
2011: National Ranking: 110 BIG Ranking: 14
2010 National Ranking: 147 BIG Ranking: 12
2009 National Ranking: 290 BIG Ranking: 13
2008 National Ranking 44 BIG Ranking: 8
2007: National Ranking 87 BIG Ranking: 13
2006: National Ranking: 81 BIG Ranking: 13
2005: No commits
2004: National Ranking: 95 BIG Ranking: 11
2003: National Ranking 267 BIG Ranking: 13

A few things that jump out at me immediately:

1) Last two years have seen are best national rankings ever, and the first two consecutive seasons that we have NOT been in double digits in the BIG. This should pay dividends, since...
2) Our best two KenPom years (2010-11 and 2016-17) were exactly two years after our two best recruiting years from a ranking perspective to that point (2008 and 2014). If form holds, this bodes quite well for 2020-21 and 2021-22
3) Only sub-100 National Ranking in the last 6 years was the class in the year of the temporary move to Allstate. Guessing that was NOT a coincidence...

EDIT: It was pointed our that our 2017 ranking was so low due to the fact that we had only one open scholarship and thus could only take one player, which does reduce the ranking. And don't know if we could have done better than Gaines even if the new arena was ready...

Your thoughts? I will add other BIG teams when I can.

I thought we had more than one scholarship open but whiffed and ended up with only one recruit in Gaines. Surprised how high we were ranked in some of the past years such as 2008 and 2012 and even some earlier years where we were in top 100

 

[hdhntr1]

2019 is not done. I believe there are still uncommitted top recruits and when they sign it will shift the final numbers.

I don't think there is much in the uncommitted area. The push right now is for transfers

 

[hdhntr1]

2019 is not done. I believe there are still uncommitted top recruits and when they sign it will shift the final numbers.

The only guy that I could find in the Rivals top 150 was Harlond Beverly at 59. Has an NU offer but 16 others so chances not great.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/

 

[hdhntr1]

I don't recall exactly where we were in terms of scholarships (and I'm sincerely hoping this doesn't divert the conversation to some of the controversial topics in that realm), but only have one recruit that year was a huge factor in our low rating.

I think we had a couple slots and only filled one as we went into last year with at least one open.

 

[mikewebb68]

I think we had a couple slots and only filled one as we went into last year with at least one open.

According to everything I have read, Vassar counted against our scholarship limit in 2017-18. We had 12 other players including Gaines, so all 13 slots were full if I am correct.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

2019 is done (unless a 2019 player from a coaching change school is in play)
transfers only and 2020 and beyond

heard there are some good things going recruiting wise in terms of connections and relationships for both transfers and 2020

 

[hdhntr1]

According to everything I have read, Vassar counted against our scholarship limit in 2017-18. We had 12 other players including Gaines, so all 13 slots were full if I am correct.

The one that was sort of under the radar was Turner. He might have been the slot I was thinking of. Still, I thought they had reclassified Vassar

 

[mikewebb68]

The one that was sort of under the radar was Turner. He might have been the slot I was thinking of. Still, I thought they had reclassified Vassar

I think that one of the reason's for Vassar's lawsuit is that Northwestern wanted him reclassified to a non-counter academic scholarship, but Vassar didn't want that. I could be recalling incorrectly though, it has been awhile and there are various conflicting media reports on the subject...

 

[Medill90]

I think that one of the reason's for Vassar's lawsuit is that Northwestern wanted him reclassified to a non-counter academic scholarship, but Vassar didn't want that. I could be recalling incorrectly though, it has been awhile and there are various conflicting media reports on the subject...

Vassar joined a class action .... lawyer out west IIRC.

The complaint named NU but was really directed at the NCAA.

The class challenges the NCAA's and its members' authority to withhold eligibility from a student-athlete for a year after a transfer. That is the nut of it.

EDIT: they were going for class action....not sure they got it

 

[mikewebb68]

Vassar joined a class action .... lawyer out west IIRC.

The complaint named NU but was really directed at the NCAA.

The class challenges the NCAA's and its members' authority to withhold eligibility from a student-athlete for a year after a transfer. That is the nut of it.

EDIT: they were going for class action....not sure they got it

So did Vassar count against our 2017-18 scholarship limit or not?

 

[NJCat]

So did Vassar count against our 2017-18 scholarship limit or not?

It doesn't matter at this point.

Move on.

 

[mikewebb68]

It doesn't matter at this point.

Move on.

I did not raise the issue, another poster did in an attempt to justify our recruiting ranking thar year. Should be a simple answer, sorry it appears to bother you...

 

[mikewebb68]

OK, next up is Michigan. Here are the numbers:

2019: National Ranking: 40 BIG Ranking: 5
2018 National Ranking: 12 BIG Ranking: 3
2017 National Ranking: 43 BIG Ranking: 6
2016: National Ranking 31 BIG Ranking: 6
2015 National Ranking: 107 BIG Ranking: 14
2014 National Ranking: 30 BIG Ranking: 4
2013: National Ranking 14 BIG Ranking 3
2012: National Ranking 8 BIG Ranking: 2
2011: National Ranking: 29 BIG Ranking: 5
2010 National Ranking: 45 BIG Ranking: 6
2009 National Ranking: 34 BIG Ranking: 5
2008 National Ranking 283 BIG Ranking: 12
2007: National Ranking 51 BIG Ranking: 9
2006: National Ranking: 39 BIG Ranking: 5
2005: National Ranking: 30 BIG Ranking: 3
2004: National Ranking: 90 BIG Ranking: 10
2003: National Ranking 8 BIG Ranking: 2

Stuff that jumps out at me right away:

1) Only marginally worse than MSU, but they have actually never had the top recruiting class in the BIG during this period
2) Another team where we've clearly narrowed the gap, and are actually ranked HIGHER then them for this year's class!

 

[mikewebb68]

Purdue is next up. Here are the numbers:

2019: National Ranking: 48 BIG Ranking: 8
2018 National Ranking: 49 BIG Ranking: 9
2017 National Ranking: 34 BIG Ranking: 4
2016: National Ranking 108 BIG Ranking: 13
2015 National Ranking: 37 BIG Ranking: 7
2014 National Ranking: 33 BIG Ranking: 5
2013: National Ranking 28 BIG Ranking 4
2012: National Ranking 16 BIG Ranking: 5
2011: National Ranking: 92 BIG Ranking: 12
2010 National Ranking: 37 BIG Ranking: 5
2009 National Ranking: 287 BIG Ranking: 12
2008 National Ranking 291 BIG Ranking: 13
2007: National Ranking 6 BIG Ranking: 2
2006: National Ranking: 55 BIG Ranking: 10
2005: National Ranking: 116 BIG Ranking: 7
2004: National Ranking: 98 BIG Ranking: 12
2003: National Ranking 229 BIG Ranking: 12

Some immediate observations:

1) Unlike Michigan St. and Michigan, who have always recruits at a high level, Purdue started out quite pedestrian in the 2000s, but has improved dramatically since then
2) However, they have plateaued somewhat in recent years, and we actually have a higher ranking than them three of the last 4 years; we will see how this translates on the court, as Purdue has done tons with their talent of late regardless of ranking (they lost a LOT from the 2017-8 season and still had a stellar 2018-9 season, for example)
3) Again, Purdue has never been tops in the big despite some amazing National rankings (6th in 2007, 16th in 2012), which is a testament to just how incredible the BIG is at recruiting.

 

[mikewebb68]

On to Wisky: Here are the stats:

2019: National Ranking: 118 BIG Ranking: 14
2018 National Ranking: 73 BIG Ranking: 13
2017 National Ranking: 35 BIG Ranking: 5
2016: National Ranking 104 BIG Ranking: 12
2015 National Ranking: 44 BIG Ranking: 10
2014 National Ranking: 130 BIG Ranking: 14
2013: National Ranking 38 BIG Ranking 5
2012: National Ranking 61 BIG Ranking: 8
2011: National Ranking: 43 BIG Ranking: 7
2010 National Ranking: 51 BIG Ranking: 7
2009 National Ranking: 268 BIG Ranking: 11
2008 National Ranking 232 BIG Ranking: 11
2007: National Ranking 36 BIG Ranking: 7
2006: National Ranking: 20 BIG Ranking: 4
2005: National Ranking: 20 BIG Ranking: 1
2004: National Ranking: 36 BIG Ranking: 5
2003: National Ranking 38 BIG Ranking: 7

My first impressions:

1) Unlike the other teams at the top of the BIG, Wisky has done a meh job at recuiting since the mid-2000s, with ZERO top-4 classes since 2006, and FIVE bottom-4 classes in the last six years!
2) But they keep on winning, which probably means a) they recruit good fits to their defensive-heavy system and b) they develop players like crazy
3) We've just absolutely crushed them in recruiting the last 2 years tho, we will see if that ultimately pays off...

 

[NJCat]

On to Wisky:

Not sure it was intentional but aptly put:

 

[mikewebb68]

In the 5th spot in the BIG this year was Maryland. Here are their year by year composite rankings since the inceptionf the 247 compositenote that 237 does this weird thing where they show how Maryland would have ranked in the BIG PRIOR o when they became a conference member, so rankings prior to 2014 are not actual BIG rankings since they were not in the BIG)

2019: National Ranking: 26 BIG Ranking: 3
2018 National Ranking: 7 BIG Ranking: 1
2017 National Ranking: 53 BIG Ranking: 8
2016: National Ranking 13 BIG Ranking: 2
2015 National Ranking: 55 BIG Ranking: 11
2014 National Ranking: 13 BIG Ranking: 2
2013: National Ranking 45 BIG Ranking 7
2012: National Ranking 13 BIG Ranking: 4
2011: National Ranking: 100 BIG Ranking: 13
2010 National Ranking: 31 BIG Ranking: 4
2009 National Ranking: 136 BIG Ranking: 7
2008 National Ranking 33 BIG Ranking: 4
2007: National Ranking 23 BIG Ranking: 5
2006: National Ranking: 12 BIG Ranking: 2
2005: National Ranking: 25 BIG Ranking: 2
2004: National Ranking: 37 BIG Ranking: 6
2003: National Ranking 2 BIG Ranking: 1

Things that leap at me right away:

1) They are the arguably the best recruiting team in the BIG factoring in the short term (#1 in the BIG over the last two years, and it's not close) and the long term (avg. yeal ranking of 36, trailing on the 31 of Michigan St.) results
2) They are the only team besides MSU to have beaten us every year in the National Rankings for recruiting since 2003
3) Oddly, unlike MSU, this has not translated into tremendous on court success.; no BIG championships since they joined in 2014, and only one co-championship in their prior conference, the ACC, since 2003 (and outside of that one year, they finished over .500 in conference just once)

 

[torque-cat]

In the 5th spot in the BIG this year was Maryland. Here are their year by year composite rankings since the inceptionf the 247 compositenote that 237 does this weird thing where they show how Maryland would have ranked in the BIG PRIOR o when they became a conference member, so rankings prior to 2014 are not actual BIG rankings since they were not in the BIG)

2019: National Ranking: 26 BIG Ranking: 3
2018 National Ranking: 7 BIG Ranking: 1
2017 National Ranking: 53 BIG Ranking: 8
2016: National Ranking 13 BIG Ranking: 2
2015 National Ranking: 55 BIG Ranking: 11
2014 National Ranking: 13 BIG Ranking: 2
2013: National Ranking 45 BIG Ranking 7
2012: National Ranking 13 BIG Ranking: 4
2011: National Ranking: 100 BIG Ranking: 13
2010 National Ranking: 31 BIG Ranking: 4
2009 National Ranking: 136 BIG Ranking: 7
2008 National Ranking 33 BIG Ranking: 4
2007: National Ranking 23 BIG Ranking: 5
2006: National Ranking: 12 BIG Ranking: 2
2005: National Ranking: 25 BIG Ranking: 2
2004: National Ranking: 37 BIG Ranking: 6
2003: National Ranking 2 BIG Ranking: 1

Things that leap at me right away:

1) They are the arguably the best recruiting team in the BIG factoring in the short term (#1 in the BIG over the last two years, and it's not close) and the long term (avg. yeal ranking of 36, trailing on the 31 of Michigan St.) results
2) They are the only team besides MSU to have beaten us every year in the National Rankings for recruiting since 2003
3) Oddly, unlike MSU, this has not translated into tremendous on court success.; no BIG championships since they joined in 2014, and only one co-championship in their prior conference, the ACC, since 2003 (and outside of that one year, they finished over .500 in conference just once)

Great stats. The big ten not having anyone averaging in the top 30 over the past 15+ years is a testament to the coaching, development and scouting in the conference. But it's also a reason we haven't been winning titles despite often having arguably the best top to bottom conference.

 

[Hungry Jack]

As a companion to my thread about individual players, I thought I would work on a overall/BIG recruiting rankings thread, starting with our team and then continuing with the other members of the BIG to see if I can learn anything from this exercise Here is ours:

2019: National Ranking: 35 BIG Ranking: 4
2018 National Ranking: 34 BIG Ranking: 7
2017 National Ranking: 136 BIG Ranking: 14
2016: National Ranking 58 BIG Ranking: 10
2015 National Ranking: 61 BIG Ranking: 12
2014 National Ranking: 49 BIG Ranking: 7
2013: National Ranking 112 BIG Ranking 13
2012: National Ranking 57 BIG Ranking: 7
2011: National Ranking: 110 BIG Ranking: 14
2010 National Ranking: 147 BIG Ranking: 12
2009 National Ranking: 290 BIG Ranking: 13
2008 National Ranking 44 BIG Ranking: 8
2007: National Ranking 87 BIG Ranking: 13
2006: National Ranking: 81 BIG Ranking: 13
2005: No commits
2004: National Ranking: 95 BIG Ranking: 11
2003: National Ranking 267 BIG Ranking: 13

A few things that jump out at me immediately:

1) Last two years have seen are best national rankings ever, and the first two consecutive seasons that we have NOT been in double digits in the BIG. This should pay dividends, since...
2) Our best two KenPom years (2010-11 and 2016-17) were exactly two years after our two best recruiting years from a ranking perspective to that point (2008 and 2014). If form holds, this bodes quite well for 2020-21 and 2021-22
3) Only sub-100 National Ranking in the last 6 years was the class in the year of the temporary move to Allstate. Guessing that was NOT a coincidence...

EDIT: It was pointed our that our 2017 ranking was so low due to the fact that we had only one open scholarship and thus could only take one player, which does reduce the ranking. And don't know if we could have done better than Gaines even if the new arena was ready...

Your thoughts? I will add other BIG teams when I can.

The two most recent classes are very promising, and Joe Bam Bam sounds like a steal, but this year is HOOJE from a developmental perspective as Kopp for now looks like the only worthy of starter minutes in the B1G. One more ugly season, and then things might turn quickly.

 

[mikewebb68]

The two most recent classes are very promising, and Joe Bam Bam sounds like a steal, but this year is HOOJE from a developmental perspective as Kopp for now looks like the only worthy of starter minutes in the B1G. One more ugly season, and then things might turn quickly.

He brought in Bam AFTER this season ended, whiich means CC can recruit with anyone. I don't see this season as huge at all, given our curreng recruiting trajectory. The ones after that will be, but we'll be back in the dance by then. Heck,:the Illini had ONE solid recruiting season, and a bunch of folks are predicting them to be in the top half of the BIG next year after a record-setting year for losses! Imagine what two going on three of the best recruiting years in our program's history can do for us...

 

[haywood jahblowme]

He brought in Bam AFTER this season ended, whiich means CC can recruit with anyone. I don't see this season as huge at all, given our curreng recruiting trajectory. The ones after that will be, but we'll be back in the dance by then. Heck,:the Illini had ONE solid recruiting season, and a bunch of folks are predicting them to be in the top half of the BIG next year after a record-setting year for losses! Imagine what two going on three of the best recruiting years in our program's history can do for us...

it will be interesting too to see the arena in year two and finally open up the practice facility (sometime in late 2019). those 2 buildings along with the lakefront buildings will really put NU in a different light

 

[Hungry Jack]

He brought in Bam AFTER this season ended, whiich means CC can recruit with anyone. I don't see this season as huge at all, given our curreng recruiting trajectory. The ones after that will be, but we'll be back in the dance by then. Heck,:the Illini had ONE solid recruiting season, and a bunch of folks are predicting them to be in the top half of the BIG next year after a record-setting year for losses! Imagine what two going on three of the best recruiting years in our program's history can do for us...

Nance looked fairly overwhelmed last season. Greer shot 30% with more turnovers than assists. Young was held out. We have a lot riding on this class.

 

[mikewebb68]

Nance looked fairly overwhelmed last season. Greer shot 30% with more turnovers than assists. Young was held out. We have a lot riding on this class.

Nance got mono at the exact time Kopp started looking better. Fully expect Nance to show the biggest improvement of anyone this season. Greer was a reclassify, so he gets a mulligan from me. 2020-21 and 2021-2 are going to be amazing years if we remain on the current recruiting trajectory...

 

[torque-cat]

Nance looked fairly overwhelmed last season. Greer shot 30% with more turnovers than assists. Young was held out. We have a lot riding on this class.

I don’t see us with a great record but certainly player development for the young guy will be huge in terms of the trajectory for future seasons. Next year even competing for an NIT bid would be a pleasant surprise after losing Law and Pardon.