The Daily Northwestern

villox

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Indeed.

I have also offered that it is naïve, not to mention wrong-headed, to declare, as many of our student activists have, that The Daily staff and other student journalists had somehow violated the personal space of the protestors by reporting on the proceedings, which were conducted in the open and were designed, ostensibly, to garner attention.

This tempest in the teapot is turning out to be a very good education for all those involved.

And to the swarm of alums and journalists who are outraged about The Daily editorial and have been equally rancorous in their condemnation of our students on social media, I say, give the young people a break. I know you feel that you were made of sterner stuff and would have the fortitude and courage of your conviction to fend off the campus critics. But you are not living with them through this firestorm, facing the brutal onslaught of venom and hostility that has been directed their way on weaponized social media. Don’t make judgments about them or their mettle until you’ve walked in their shoes. What they need at this moment is our support and the encouragement to stay the course.

I was really bothered by the oped piece when I first read it last night. I am not exaggerating: my chest was tight. I was convinced that my alma mater was going to intellectual hell, that NU journalism faculty had bred this situation by indulging in political correctness.

I think differently about this situation now. I think the editorial staff certainly made a mistake, but it's understandable given what I have learned about the context. They are getting hammered on both sides. In the long run, they should learn a lot from this. As far as the protesters are concerned, I hope they come to see that their bullying of Daily and short-term success in suppressing being held accountable for their own choices and actions is not going to fly in the real world.
I think their biggest mistake was using language that sounded so much like the triggered/snowflake/safe space kind of language that's so exaggerated these days, specifically "retraumatized" and the idea that looking people up on a phone book would be bizarre (which, come to think of it, I can even see why these days - when was the last time you looked up somebody's phone number that wasn't a service provider?")

Definite good learning experience, including for those of us to jumped to conclusions.
 
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gocatsgo2003

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I have no clue where you think I was claiming victim hood. I am well aware that I bask in white privilege. I have read my sons papers and read the sources he was made to use which have educated me to how terrible us white men are.
What?

"Wear a MAGA hat and see what grade you get."
 

CrippleCat

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Liberal SJWs love being told reality, especially if it’s by a white person. It’ll be interesting to see if/how the victimized protesters will respond to this.
They will ask why we are taught one thing and then you all contridict it.
 

GOUNUII

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Morty questions why Republicans would invite Sessions, after the Democrats have Adam Schiff there with no triggered stufents. I guess the Republican students respect free speech.
Adam Schiff and Stacey Abrams speak at NU and not a peep of embarrassing protest. No need for safe spaces. Nobody traumatized. Jeff Sessions appears and all hell breaks out. It's a traumatic assault on the senses justifying an equal or greater assault on the very reasons institutions of higher learning exist. While I am heartened by the comments of our liberal contributors here on the Rant Board, I am hopeful that this stark contrast illustrates to all what moderates fear most. A groundswell of support/tolerance among many in education, politics, the media and businesses for bully style intolerance of conservative views, the erosion of Constitutional rights and the irrational assumption of an oppressed victim's mentality. All in conformity with the inherent divisiveness of identity politics and political correctness.

Morty's comments regarding the wisdom of inviting Sessions? Are you kidding me? That is the chilling of free speech by a President of a distinguished University. It implicitly encourages the very conduct the University says will have "consequences." Really no different in its fundamental character, IMO, than Trump's sin of implicitly encouraging White Supremacists by his equivocal at best and two sided condemnation of what transpired in Charlottesville.

Historically, true liberals would support Sessions' right to appear at NU and vigorously defend his right to speak without threat to his personal safety. They would also advocate to all who would listen the value of dialogue and debate. They and others were at the forefront of nation defining change for the better.

Where are they now? Why have the tables turned with strong liberal factions now replacing the conservative factions of the 60s as a powerful force for the use of physical/social intimidation and even career/paycheck survival to impose their will? Why is it so difficult for these liberal factions to embrace that the defense and promotion of idea diversification necessarily protects every other form of diversity they claim to champion.

GOUNUII
 

CrippleCat

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The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
In the example that I gave I was specifically talking about Northwestern students. And no way shape or form was I putting myself into that situation. Thus I was not claiming to be victimized in any way. I wasn't a victim of a D3 school preying on my insecurities to get me to overpay for an education to say I was a student athlete either. When I am on NU campus and Chicago I wear my Trump and NRA stuff, don't care who is triggered. I served so everyone could wear whatever they like.
 
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gocatsgo2003

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In the example that I gave I was specifically talking about Northwestern students. And no way shape or form was I putting myself into that situation. Thus I was not claiming to be victimized in any way. I wasn't a victim of a D3 school preying on my insecurities to get me to overpay for an education to say I was a student athlete either. When I am on NU campus and Chicago I wear my Trump and NRA stuff, don't care who is triggered. I served so everyone could wear whatever they like.
You played the victim card on behalf of conservatives at NU, then somehow decided that I am a "victim" because I went to a D3 school, then flaunted your service? Classic. Whatever makes you feel better.
 
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NUCat320

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In the example that I gave I was specifically talking about Northwestern students. And no way shape or form was I putting myself into that situation. Thus I was not claiming to be victimized in any way. I wasn't a victim of a D3 school preying on my insecurities to get me to overpay for an education to say I was a student athlete either. When I am on NU campus and Chicago I wear my Trump and NRA stuff, don't care who is triggered. I served so everyone could wear whatever they like.
You played the victim card on behalf of conservatives at NU, then somehow decided that I am a "victim" because I went to a D3 school, then flaunted your service? Classic. Whatever makes you feel better.
You lovebirds should get your own thread.
 

Hungry Jack

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I think their biggest mistake was using language that sounded so much like the triggered/snowflake/safe space kind of language that's so exaggerated these days, specifically "retraumatized" and the idea that looking people up on a phone book would be bizarre (which, come to think of it, I can even see why these days - when was the last time you looked up somebody's phone number that wasn't a service provider?")

Definite good learning experience, including for those of us to jumped to conclusions.
Yes. A lot of new and interesting words have been created under the auspices of a specific agenda lately.

I gave my last phone book to Football Phil so he could practice ripping them in half with one hand.
 
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Gladeskat

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I wasn't a victim of a D3 school preying on my insecurities to get me to overpay for an education to say I was a student athlete either.
I was. And what a horrible plight that was! All that suffering playing college sports for the fun of it rather than under contractual obligation.
 
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NUCat320

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It’s a really good statement.

My interpretation: The Daily published well-reported, accurate information, and were harassed and brow-beaten into submission. They pulled the names and photos.

Solid journalists, snowflake protestors.

(turns out, @Hungry Jack wrote basically the same thing an hour earlier than I did.)

Tell em, Chuck:
The Daily had an obligation to capture the event, both for the benefit of its current audience as well as for posterity. I have also offered that it is naïve, not to mention wrong-headed, to declare, as many of our student activists have, that The Daily staff and other student journalists had somehow violated the personal space of the protestors by reporting on the proceedings, which were conducted in the open and were designed, ostensibly, to garner attention.
 
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CrippleCat

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I was. And what a horrible plight that was! All that suffering playing college sports for the fun of it rather than under contractual obligation.
You mean paying to play a sport rather than being paid to play a sport. It is almost like working for free instead of doing the same work for a paycheck. But heck, they can both claim to have jobs.
 

CrippleCat

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You played the victim card on behalf of conservatives at NU, then somehow decided that I am a "victim" because I went to a D3 school, then flaunted your service? Classic. Whatever makes you feel better.
I did not play the victim card for consecutives at NU I, stated an absolute fact. I stated you were victimized by your need to make others think you were relevant in something you clearly weren't and a D3 school took advantage of it. At least I have something worth flaunting.
 

gocatsgo2003

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I did not play the victim card for consecutives at NU I, stated an absolute fact. I stated you were victimized by your need to make others think you were relevant in something you clearly weren't and a D3 school took advantage of it. At least I have something worth flaunting.
What? You don’t know jack shit about me.
 

Gladeskat

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Nothing wrong with playing D3 football. Nobody was victimized. Nobody played to be pretentious.
 

CrippleCat

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You lovebirds should get your own thread.
He lives to respond to my posts. I know if I post something I will always at least get one response. I mostly stay on the Rant side as to let Gocats act like he has a clue about D1 football. Generally he is way off and has zero clue of what is truly going on. You know like Hunters mom getting chemo as part of the reason for him on the sidelines. Our my son not playing due to three labrum tears, lineman playing thru various severe injuries, defenders hurt, or a general host of many things he seems to have no trouble giving his uniformed opinion on. So I figured I can post on the Rant as to let him have his followers listen to the D3 gurus predictions and football wisdom..
 

CrippleCat

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Tucker Carlson calling out Northwestern for its lack of free speech and liberal brainwashing.
 

VirginiaWildcat

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Adam Schiff and Stacey Abrams speak at NU and not a peep of embarrassing protest. No need for safe spaces. Nobody traumatized. Jeff Sessions appears and all hell breaks out. It's a traumatic assault on the senses justifying an equal or greater assault on the very reasons institutions of higher learning exist. While I am heartened by the comments of our liberal contributors here on the Rant Board, I am hopeful that this stark contrast illustrates to all what moderates fear most. A groundswell of support/tolerance among many in education, politics, the media and businesses for bully style intolerance of conservative views, the erosion of Constitutional rights and the irrational assumption of an oppressed victim's mentality. All in conformity with the inherent divisiveness of identity politics and political correctness.

Morty's comments regarding the wisdom of inviting Sessions? Are you kidding me? That is the chilling of free speech by a President of a distinguished University. It implicitly encourages the very conduct the University says will have "consequences." Really no different in its fundamental character, IMO, than Trump's sin of implicitly encouraging White Supremacists by his equivocal at best and two sided condemnation of what transpired in Charlottesville.

Historically, true liberals would support Sessions' right to appear at NU and vigorously defend his right to speak without threat to his personal safety. They would also advocate to all who would listen the value of dialogue and debate. They and others were at the forefront of nation defining change for the better.

Where are they now? Why have the tables turned with strong liberal factions now replacing the conservative factions of the 60s as a powerful force for the use of physical/social intimidation and even career/paycheck survival to impose their will? Why is it so difficult for these liberal factions to embrace that the defense and promotion of idea diversification necessarily protects every other form of diversity they claim to champion.

GOUNUII
Best post in the entire thread and, of course, it’s completely ignored.
 
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rwhitney014

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Indeed.

I have also offered that it is naïve, not to mention wrong-headed, to declare, as many of our student activists have, that The Daily staff and other student journalists had somehow violated the personal space of the protestors by reporting on the proceedings, which were conducted in the open and were designed, ostensibly, to garner attention.

This tempest in the teapot is turning out to be a very good education for all those involved.

And to the swarm of alums and journalists who are outraged about The Daily editorial and have been equally rancorous in their condemnation of our students on social media, I say, give the young people a break. I know you feel that you were made of sterner stuff and would have the fortitude and courage of your conviction to fend off the campus critics. But you are not living with them through this firestorm, facing the brutal onslaught of venom and hostility that has been directed their way on weaponized social media. Don’t make judgments about them or their mettle until you’ve walked in their shoes. What they need at this moment is our support and the encouragement to stay the course.

I was really bothered by the oped piece when I first read it last night. I am not exaggerating: my chest was tight. I was convinced that my alma mater was going to intellectual hell, that NU journalism faculty had bred this situation by indulging in political correctness.

I think differently about this situation now. I think the editorial staff certainly made a mistake, but it's understandable given what I have learned about the context. They are getting hammered on both sides. In the long run, they should learn a lot from this. As far as the protesters are concerned, I hope they come to see that their bullying of Daily and short-term success in suppressing being held accountable for their own choices and actions is not going to fly in the real world.
I feel even stronger about the sentiments that led to my initial post on this thread now.

I’m proud of Dean Whitaker, who was widely known as an excellent professor in my time at Medill (though I never had him myself) and was a smart hire for a deanship that has had some changes in the last decade.

But I want to comment specifically on the middle of your post here, Jack, regarding your concerns about the NU and what you originally perceived as signs of change you do not like:

Institutions matter. They withstand harmful change and foment positive change. We need to remain faithful - and to feel that we can remain faithful - in them. Not all are good, not all are bad, but they matter. It’s what has been so discomfiting about this era of politics in this country, that people currently holding leadership positions have developed a kakistocracy with the intent of sowing mistrust in our institutions. And my fear, in the longer term, is that they are successful.

In this situation, the institution has held firm. NU’s leadership has responded appropriately. The students involved are taking their lumps and learning from them. I hope the people who feel victimized by facing consequences for their actions realize why that’s problematic and make future decisions accordingly. We’ve got one more day on my two-day clock before this cycle’s newsworthiness ends. I hope it does, because no one’s life deserves to be hurt for this.

If Troy Closson is half the journalist and thoughtful human I think he is based on what I’ve seen here, and I had a job to offer him, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
 

GOUNUII

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Best post in the entire thread and, of course, it’s completely ignored.
The late great Charles Krauthammer was the USS Gerald Ford of political/social commentators and an extraordinary human being. The power of his values, insight and intelligence ... made greater by his unrivaled ability to share those gifts with balance and simplicity ... made him exceptional.

And still, even he understood and acknowledged that the best he could hope for by his life’s work was to occasionally “nudge “ some people to look at things a little differently.

Krauthammer’s humble acknowledgement makes it perfectly understandable that Rant Board posts by mere mortals are frequently met with silence.

GOUNUII
 

Medill90

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The late great Charles Krauthammer was the USS Gerald Ford of political/social commentators and an extraordinary human being. The power of his values, insight and intelligence ... made greater by his unrivaled ability to share those gifts with balance and simplicity ... made him exceptional.

And still, even he understood and acknowledged that the best he could hope for by his life’s work was to occasionally “nudge “ some people to look at things a little differently.

Krauthammer’s humble acknowledgement makes it perfectly understandable that Rant Board posts by mere mortals are frequently met with silence.

GOUNUII
When asked why he left the Democratic Party, Krauthamer replied, "I didn't, it left me."
 
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Hungry Jack

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I feel even stronger about the sentiments that led to my initial post on this thread now.

I’m proud of Dean Whitaker, who was widely known as an excellent professor in my time at Medill (though I never had him myself) and was a smart hire for a deanship that has had some changes in the last decade.

But I want to comment specifically on the middle of your post here, Jack, regarding your concerns about the NU and what you originally perceived as signs of change you do not like:

Institutions matter. They withstand harmful change and foment positive change. We need to remain faithful - and to feel that we can remain faithful - in them. Not all are good, not all are bad, but they matter. It’s what has been so discomfiting about this era of politics in this country, that people currently holding leadership positions have developed a kakistocracy with the intent of sowing mistrust in our institutions. And my fear, in the longer term, is that they are successful.

In this situation, the institution has held firm. NU’s leadership has responded appropriately. The students involved are taking their lumps and learning from them. I hope the people who feel victimized by facing consequences for their actions realize why that’s problematic and make future decisions accordingly. We’ve got one more day on my two-day clock before this cycle’s newsworthiness ends. I hope it does, because no one’s life deserves to be hurt for this.

If Troy Closson is half the journalist and thoughtful human I think he is based on what I’ve seen here, and I had a job to offer him, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Agreed that college, at its best, is a lab for experimentation and exploration (Glades experimented quite a bit in college, I'm told, but that's another story) of real world issues without real world consequences. So the Daily staff should not be professionally blackballed due to some poor judgment while apparently under peer duress.
 

NU Houston

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Little Hungry is 9 now, and I am starting to see lots of opportunities to help him understand that the things people say to him aren't going to hurt him. He's learning about trash talk, bullying, and all that drama that comes at this age. He's already learned about physical resilience through sports (he's a soccer goalie, and has taken a bunch of whacks. They never phase him. He just gets up and gets back at it). He will learn soon enough that uncomfortable ideas and hurtful words are not going to ruin him.

I get the feeling that the Millennial generation is by and large a generation of pussies, and that things are going to be pretty rough for them as they work their way through adulthood. They have been very sheltered by parents who meant well, but really did them a disservice by preventing them from experiencing discomfort, conflict, sacrifice, and even physical pain (I cannot tell you how many parents I used to see at the playground that would freak if a child fell down or crashed into something). You need these experiences to learn resiliency, to learn that problems are solvable, that a painful injury won't kill you, that you can bounce back and do better. The Millennials seemed to have missed these important lessons from youth.
These current students at NU probably aren't regarded as Millennials. Generation Z is the term for them. I know it's cool to proclaim how dysfunctional and out of touch Millennials are, but the oldest members of that group are approaching 40 and are finding their way through life like generations before them have done. As a Gen-Xer, I work with plenty of Millennials, and I find most to be hard-working, respectful, and fairly balanced in terms of their approach to the world. They get a bad rap.

Now regarding these Daily Northwestern editors, I think that their intentions were good but that their goal of providing more fair representation for previously marginalized groups resulted in a less balanced approach to journalism. They'll learn from this, just like the football players will take lessons out of defeat. They're all still kids. Did any of us do stupid shit when we were 20?
 

Hungry Jack

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These current students at NU probably aren't regarded as Millennials. Generation Z is the term for them. I know it's cool to proclaim how dysfunctional and out of touch Millennials are, but the oldest members of that group are approaching 40 and are finding their way through life like generations before them have done. As a Gen-Xer, I work with plenty of Millennials, and I find most to be hard-working, respectful, and fairly balanced in terms of their approach to the world. They get a bad rap.

Now regarding these Daily Northwestern editors, I think that their intentions were good but that their goal of providing more fair representation for previously marginalized groups resulted in a less balanced approach to journalism. They'll learn from this, just like the football players will take lessons out of defeat. They're all still kids. Did any of us do stupid shit when we were 20?
Maybe Gen Z is more appropriate. Regardless, I hear a lot from employers about the generation that entered the workforce over the last 10 years. The themes are pretty consistent: need more attention and stroking; work ethic could be better; not unusual to ask for some type of accommodation; problem-solving skills need work. This sampling includes white collar and labor.

Of course there are exceptions. Our nanny of five years (actress) was reliable, resilient, resourceful and a great influence on my son.

When I was in my 20s, I partied and chased girls too much, but I could solve problems without much help. I didn’t need much supervision. Just give me a problem and I could take care of it.
 

NUCat91

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I feel even stronger about the sentiments that led to my initial post on this thread now.

I’m proud of Dean Whitaker, who was widely known as an excellent professor in my time at Medill (though I never had him myself) and was a smart hire for a deanship that has had some changes in the last decade.

But I want to comment specifically on the middle of your post here, Jack, regarding your concerns about the NU and what you originally perceived as signs of change you do not like:

Institutions matter. They withstand harmful change and foment positive change. We need to remain faithful - and to feel that we can remain faithful - in them. Not all are good, not all are bad, but they matter. It’s what has been so discomfiting about this era of politics in this country, that people currently holding leadership positions have developed a kakistocracy with the intent of sowing mistrust in our institutions. And my fear, in the longer term, is that they are successful.

In this situation, the institution has held firm. NU’s leadership has responded appropriately. The students involved are taking their lumps and learning from them. I hope the people who feel victimized by facing consequences for their actions realize why that’s problematic and make future decisions accordingly. We’ve got one more day on my two-day clock before this cycle’s newsworthiness ends. I hope it does, because no one’s life deserves to be hurt for this.

If Troy Closson is half the journalist and thoughtful human I think he is based on what I’ve seen here, and I had a job to offer him, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
I'm curious as to why you think Mr. Closson would merit a job as an editor at this point. To my mind, he has thrown his reporters under the bus due to outside pressure. I don't presume to understand how hard it is for him at the moment, but if I were a reporter and he was hired to be my editor, I would not be filled with confidence.

That's not to say that he won't be a great editor or reporter some day, but the evidence to me seems otherwise.
 
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Medill90

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What?

"Wear a MAGA hat and see what grade you get."
This is a real thing.

I've counseled my son's classmate (university in the west) who was treated unfairly in a media class because of his political leanings. He wrote a research paper and used Fox reporting as sources. His professor crossed out the quotes and references and wrote "Fox is not a real source" and gave him a poor grade.

This young man expected a lively debate, enjoys a robust argument, but did not expect his grade to get whacked.

I've tried to help him take an appropriate administrative response.
 

CrippleCat

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This is a real thing.

I've counseled my son's classmate (university in the west) who was treated unfairly in a media class because of his political leanings. He wrote a research paper and used Fox reporting as sources. His professor crossed out the quotes and references and wrote "Fox is not a real source" and gave him a poor grade.

This young man expected a lively debate, enjoys a robust argument, but did not expect his grade to get whacked.

I've tried to help him take an appropriate administrative response.
They are well aware this is real, but it promotes their agenda so they don't care. The Liberals will do ANYTHING to get their way. This impeachment sham is to try and detract from what is on its way. They will try to say that Republicans are using the FISA abuse and other investigations to take focus away from impeachment. It won't matter what laws were broken it was all warranted because Trump is bad.
 

villox

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I'm curious as to why you think Mr. Closson would merit a job as an editor at this point. To my mind, he has thrown his reporters under the bus due to outside pressure. I don't presume to understand how hard it is for him at the moment, but if I were a reporter and he was hired to be my editor, I would not be filled with confidence.

That's not to say that he won't be a great editor or reporter some day, but the evidence to me seems otherwise.
Did you read his twitter post? He did precisely the opposite.

 
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Hungry Jack

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This is a real thing.

I've counseled my son's classmate (university in the west) who was treated unfairly in a media class because of his political leanings. He wrote a research paper and used Fox reporting as sources. His professor crossed out the quotes and references and wrote "Fox is not a real source" and gave him a poor grade.

This young man expected a lively debate, enjoys a robust argument, but did not expect his grade to get whacked.

I've tried to help him take an appropriate administrative response.
I think this is not an isolated incident in higher education.
 

Medill90

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I think this is not an isolated incident in higher education.
Not at all. Look at what happened with the Harvard Law professor. The professor in the Pacific Northwest who the campus police told to not come on campus.

I like that NU police kept the protestors out of the room in which Sessions spoke. I like the idea that students are allowed to protest and Sessions right to speak -- audience allowed to hear -- were protected.

I think that Sessions on campus provided students a better opportunity in the Q&A given all that's going on.
 

NUCat91

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Did you read his twitter post? He did precisely the opposite.

I don't see how that changes anything from the reporters' view. So he says it's his decision; well, of course it is. That doesn't change the fact he and the and the other editors backed off the story, said the reporters should not have done what they did, and will change the processes at the paper in the future to further hamper what the dean of Medill called proper reporting techniques.

More specifically, who cares about what he wrote on Twitter? It doesn't absolve the acts the editorial board did and will do in the future.
 
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CrippleCat

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He didn't HAVE to write anything. How do you and he define liberalism?
How the hell do you know? The other day you were saying you doubted NU was a liberal school. After I posted many publications labeling NU as one of the most liberal and one of the worst in" free speech" in the Nation, you didn't respond. I see my sons papers and what he is being taught. NU is one of the most liberal schools in the nation and one of the worst for free speech and they definitely have their students write liberal dribble. My gf can't believe how liberal NU is and there is no debate or discussion. She went to a much better University for learning To cut out discussion and debate is horrible.
 

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