ADVERTISEMENT

The Supreme Court Ruling Against the NCAA Helps Northwestern

PURPLE Book Cat

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Sep 3, 2007
2,405
1,427
113
Today the Supreme Court ruled that the NCAA illegally restricted education-based benefits that could compensate student-athletes under antitrust law. The education-based benefits include things like technology, study abroad programs, and - especially intriguing for the Northwestern football team - internships. It seems to me that this particular ruling stands to uniquely benefit Northwestern, more so than many other schools.

The internship piece is interesting. I think that the NCAA articulated reasonable concerns:
First, the NCAA worries about the district court’s inclusion of paid posteligibility internships among the education-related benefits it approved. The NCAA fears that schools will use internships as a way of circumventing limits on payments that student-athletes may receive for athletic performance. The NCAA even imagines that boosters might promise posteligibility internships “at a sneaker company or auto dealership” with extravagant salaries as a “thinly disguised vehicle” for paying professional-level salaries.

But the Supreme Court thought otherwise, telling the NCAA that it was still acting monopolistically as it retained the discretion to police for excessive benefits:

Even when it comes to internships offered by conferences and schools, the district court left the NCAA considerable flexibility. The court refused to enjoin NCAA rules prohibiting its members from providing compensation or benefits unrelated to legitimate educational activities—thus leaving the league room to police phony internships. . . . Under the current decree, the NCAA is free to forbid in-kind benefits unrelated to a student’s actual education; nothing stops it from enforcing a “no Lamborghini” rule. And, again, the district court invited the NCAA to specify and later enforce rules delineating which benefits it considers legitimately related to education. To the extent the NCAA believes meaningful ambiguity really exists about the scope of its authority— regarding internships, academic awards, in-kind benefits, or anything else—it has been free to seek clarification from the district court since the court issued its injunction three years ago. The NCAA remains free to do so today. To date, the NCAA has sought clarification only once—about the precise amount at which it can cap academic awards—and the question was quickly resolved.

Good luck to Nebraska spelling out how that $100,000/year internship (Lambo included) at John Deere of Lincoln is "legitimately related to education." On the other hand, Northwestern's proximity to Chicago vastly increases the available pool of internships (an Aon or Booz Allen Hamilton internship is worth a lot more than a marketing internship at a tractor outfit in Lincoln). You might not see a Lambo, but good luck to the NCAA if they dare attempt to limit such a paid internship on the basis that it is not legitimately related to education - especially given the long established relationships of Aon, Booz Allen, and companies like them in the (non-athlete) recruitment of Northwestern graduates. And where Northwestern needs to place athletes in internships with firms that do not have a preexisting relationship with the school, the name brand and prestige associated with Northwestern academically likely makes it more palatable to establish such a new relationship - and more difficult for the NCAA to challenge given that the Supreme Court has just slapped them down as an old-school, Standard Oil-type monopolist. Most importantly, though - from the standpoints of marketing the football program and establishing the well-precedented academic internship relationship for Northwestern "student athletes" - is that Pat Fitzgerald over the past fifteen years has institutionalized possibly the greatest division I football team initiative to land football players internships. These relationships are now deep, easily marketable, and - for the first time - apparently fundable.

The market value payable to a Northwestern athlete could reasonably be higher than that for athletes at competitor schools. You might foresee arguments that the fair value for a Northwestern intern working at a Chicago firm exceeds the reasonable amount that should be paid to other students from most other Big Ten schools in smaller market cities. That checks a box for a student athlete looking to get paid, legitimately, in college. It is plausible that this could play out in a market context during recruitment, where at some point it might become allowable for a Northwestern recruiter to tell an athlete that they could make $50,000 per year while a student by interning at Aon or Booz Allen in downtown Chicago and then have a locked in contract upon graduating (perhaps as a fallback opportunity if the NFL doesn't work out). Such opportunities would be more of a stretch to argue for in East Lansing or Iowa City.

The NCAA rules preventing individual athletes from benefiting from their name, image and likeness on the other hand probably will not benefit Northwestern as much as Michigan or Ohio State, or even Nebraska (where Adrian Martinez's market value of selling Ford trucks on behalf of local dealerships is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and likely millions, despite Nebraska losing more games than it wins), though proximity to the Chicago market and Kellogg branding prowess will likely provide unique selling points to NU recruiters. A few savvy Kellogg professors working with the football team could probably leverage the ability to market "NIL" to actually develop and grow the brand of Northwestern football, in turn increasing the NIL value to future NU recruits.

It would be a good day for Northwestern if it can tell a recruit that he has a $50,000 internship locked in at Booz Allen (or another company founded by a Northwestern alum) and Michigan State can only offer a $10,000 multi-level marketing scheme/internship at AmWay. Today's Supreme Court ruling seems as though we might well be heading in that direction.
 
At this point, I am just glad to see the NCAA's stranglehold on college athletes being loosened up, if not broken.

Maybe, but I keep hearing in the back of my mind "Be careful what you wish for." I do know this. I am a pretty avid purchaser of cable and sports add-ons. However, I am a nano-second away from cutting the cord and watching "I Love Lucy" reruns on the rabbit ears. Too much money for the budget. Too much focus on money instead of sport.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: drewjin
Today the Supreme Court ruled that the NCAA illegally restricted education-based benefits that could compensate student-athletes under antitrust law. The education-based benefits include things like technology, study abroad programs, and - especially intriguing for the Northwestern football team - internships. It seems to me that this particular ruling stands to uniquely benefit Northwestern, more so than many other schools.

The internship piece is interesting. I think that the NCAA articulated reasonable concerns:


But the Supreme Court thought otherwise, telling the NCAA that it was still acting monopolistically as it retained the discretion to police for excessive benefits:



Good luck to Nebraska spelling out how that $100,000/year internship (Lambo included) at John Deere of Lincoln is "legitimately related to education." On the other hand, Northwestern's proximity to Chicago vastly increases the available pool of internships (an Aon or Booz Allen Hamilton internship is worth a lot more than a marketing internship at a tractor outfit in Lincoln). You might not see a Lambo, but good luck to the NCAA if they dare attempt to limit such a paid internship on the basis that it is not legitimately related to education - especially given the long established relationships of Aon, Booz Allen, and companies like them in the (non-athlete) recruitment of Northwestern graduates. And where Northwestern needs to place athletes in internships with firms that do not have a preexisting relationship with the school, the name brand and prestige associated with Northwestern academically likely makes it more palatable to establish such a new relationship - and more difficult for the NCAA to challenge given that the Supreme Court has just slapped them down as an old-school, Standard Oil-type monopolist. Most importantly, though - from the standpoints of marketing the football program and establishing the well-precedented academic internship relationship for Northwestern "student athletes" - is that Pat Fitzgerald over the past fifteen years has institutionalized possibly the greatest division I football team initiative to land football players internships. These relationships are now deep, easily marketable, and - for the first time - apparently fundable.

The market value payable to a Northwestern athlete could reasonably be higher than that for athletes at competitor schools. You might foresee arguments that the fair value for a Northwestern intern working at a Chicago firm exceeds the reasonable amount that should be paid to other students from most other Big Ten schools in smaller market cities. That checks a box for a student athlete looking to get paid, legitimately, in college. It is plausible that this could play out in a market context during recruitment, where at some point it might become allowable for a Northwestern recruiter to tell an athlete that they could make $50,000 per year while a student by interning at Aon or Booz Allen in downtown Chicago and then have a locked in contract upon graduating (perhaps as a fallback opportunity if the NFL doesn't work out). Such opportunities would be more of a stretch to argue for in East Lansing or Iowa City.

The NCAA rules preventing individual athletes from benefiting from their name, image and likeness on the other hand probably will not benefit Northwestern as much as Michigan or Ohio State, or even Nebraska (where Adrian Martinez's market value of selling Ford trucks on behalf of local dealerships is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and likely millions, despite Nebraska losing more games than it wins), though proximity to the Chicago market and Kellogg branding prowess will likely provide unique selling points to NU recruiters. A few savvy Kellogg professors working with the football team could probably leverage the ability to market "NIL" to actually develop and grow the brand of Northwestern football, in turn increasing the NIL value to future NU recruits.

It would be a good day for Northwestern if it can tell a recruit that he has a $50,000 internship locked in at Booz Allen (or another company founded by a Northwestern alum) and Michigan State can only offer a $10,000 multi-level marketing scheme/internship at AmWay. Today's Supreme Court ruling seems as though we might well be heading in that direction.
As an NU alum, I certainly value the NU brand and recognize what it means to employers. But if you think employers aren't interested in recruiting other BIG campuses - especially for student athletes - I think you are living in an elitist, gated community in your own mind. I am sending my youngest to Michigan State and the connections, including the internship opportunities, they have is as impressive as anyplace. You tend to make a few connections when you have hundreds of thousands of alums out there in the world.
 
Maybe, but I keep hearing in the back of my mind "Be careful what you wish for." I do know this. I am a pretty avid purchaser of cable and sports add-ons. However, I am a nano-second away from cutting the cord and watching "I Love Lucy" reruns on the rabbit ears. Too much money for the budget Too much focus on money instead of sport.
I think we've already done a thread on this somewhere on here, but streaming services, for now, are the way to go. Pretty much all the stations at a fraction of the cost of cable subscriptions. Plus, its month to month. I can turn it off and then turn it back on again with no fee or penalty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rmndcat
Today the Supreme Court ruled that the NCAA illegally restricted education-based benefits that could compensate student-athletes under antitrust law. The education-based benefits include things like technology, study abroad programs, and - especially intriguing for the Northwestern football team - internships. It seems to me that this particular ruling stands to uniquely benefit Northwestern, more so than many other schools.

The internship piece is interesting. I think that the NCAA articulated reasonable concerns:


But the Supreme Court thought otherwise, telling the NCAA that it was still acting monopolistically as it retained the discretion to police for excessive benefits:



Good luck to Nebraska spelling out how that $100,000/year internship (Lambo included) at John Deere of Lincoln is "legitimately related to education." On the other hand, Northwestern's proximity to Chicago vastly increases the available pool of internships (an Aon or Booz Allen Hamilton internship is worth a lot more than a marketing internship at a tractor outfit in Lincoln). You might not see a Lambo, but good luck to the NCAA if they dare attempt to limit such a paid internship on the basis that it is not legitimately related to education - especially given the long established relationships of Aon, Booz Allen, and companies like them in the (non-athlete) recruitment of Northwestern graduates. And where Northwestern needs to place athletes in internships with firms that do not have a preexisting relationship with the school, the name brand and prestige associated with Northwestern academically likely makes it more palatable to establish such a new relationship - and more difficult for the NCAA to challenge given that the Supreme Court has just slapped them down as an old-school, Standard Oil-type monopolist. Most importantly, though - from the standpoints of marketing the football program and establishing the well-precedented academic internship relationship for Northwestern "student athletes" - is that Pat Fitzgerald over the past fifteen years has institutionalized possibly the greatest division I football team initiative to land football players internships. These relationships are now deep, easily marketable, and - for the first time - apparently fundable.

The market value payable to a Northwestern athlete could reasonably be higher than that for athletes at competitor schools. You might foresee arguments that the fair value for a Northwestern intern working at a Chicago firm exceeds the reasonable amount that should be paid to other students from most other Big Ten schools in smaller market cities. That checks a box for a student athlete looking to get paid, legitimately, in college. It is plausible that this could play out in a market context during recruitment, where at some point it might become allowable for a Northwestern recruiter to tell an athlete that they could make $50,000 per year while a student by interning at Aon or Booz Allen in downtown Chicago and then have a locked in contract upon graduating (perhaps as a fallback opportunity if the NFL doesn't work out). Such opportunities would be more of a stretch to argue for in East Lansing or Iowa City.

The NCAA rules preventing individual athletes from benefiting from their name, image and likeness on the other hand probably will not benefit Northwestern as much as Michigan or Ohio State, or even Nebraska (where Adrian Martinez's market value of selling Ford trucks on behalf of local dealerships is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and likely millions, despite Nebraska losing more games than it wins), though proximity to the Chicago market and Kellogg branding prowess will likely provide unique selling points to NU recruiters. A few savvy Kellogg professors working with the football team could probably leverage the ability to market "NIL" to actually develop and grow the brand of Northwestern football, in turn increasing the NIL value to future NU recruits.

It would be a good day for Northwestern if it can tell a recruit that he has a $50,000 internship locked in at Booz Allen (or another company founded by a Northwestern alum) and Michigan State can only offer a $10,000 multi-level marketing scheme/internship at AmWay. Today's Supreme Court ruling seems as though we might well be heading in that direction.
Of course it is Post eligibility. How many HS kids does that have meaning for? Once you get into your program, and start thinking of after you are done playing but in HS? And for it to mean something, the kid has to figure he is probably not getting an opportunity at the next level, How can you offer the kid Booze Allen before he has set foot in the classroom? All we could really offer is the opportunity that internships could be available to them, not the particular ones that they would qualify for

Other bigger programs can likely offer more along the way whereas we can offer more once they are done. But that has always been our value proposition. How many top guys will look at what the big schools can offer along the way and be swayed because they can offer a lot more? Our athletic programs basically are set up to break even. While a dOSU has another $100 mill to operate with so they can offer a lot more immediate benefits while the kid is playing. For the top HS kids, we probably lose that arms race even more than we do now
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Alaskawildkat
As an NU alum, I certainly value the NU brand and recognize what it means to employers. But if you think employers aren't interested in recruiting other BIG campuses - especially for student athletes - I think you are living in an elitist, gated community in your own mind. I am sending my youngest to Michigan State and the connections, including the internship opportunities, they have is as impressive as anyplace. You tend to make a few connections when you have hundreds of thousands of alums out there in the world.
Overall we lose the tradeoff. We can offer potentially more for an internship AFTER they are done playing and the big boys can offer more all the time they are playing. THe real advantage in internships is that we are already in Chicago area but even there, we likely lose to schools in CA, and along East Coast and potentially other areas
 
Today the Supreme Court ruled that the NCAA illegally restricted education-based benefits that could compensate student-athletes under antitrust law. The education-based benefits include things like technology, study abroad programs, and - especially intriguing for the Northwestern football team - internships. It seems to me that this particular ruling stands to uniquely benefit Northwestern, more so than many other schools.

The internship piece is interesting. I think that the NCAA articulated reasonable concerns:


But the Supreme Court thought otherwise, telling the NCAA that it was still acting monopolistically as it retained the discretion to police for excessive benefits:



Good luck to Nebraska spelling out how that $100,000/year internship (Lambo included) at John Deere of Lincoln is "legitimately related to education." On the other hand, Northwestern's proximity to Chicago vastly increases the available pool of internships (an Aon or Booz Allen Hamilton internship is worth a lot more than a marketing internship at a tractor outfit in Lincoln). You might not see a Lambo, but good luck to the NCAA if they dare attempt to limit such a paid internship on the basis that it is not legitimately related to education - especially given the long established relationships of Aon, Booz Allen, and companies like them in the (non-athlete) recruitment of Northwestern graduates. And where Northwestern needs to place athletes in internships with firms that do not have a preexisting relationship with the school, the name brand and prestige associated with Northwestern academically likely makes it more palatable to establish such a new relationship - and more difficult for the NCAA to challenge given that the Supreme Court has just slapped them down as an old-school, Standard Oil-type monopolist. Most importantly, though - from the standpoints of marketing the football program and establishing the well-precedented academic internship relationship for Northwestern "student athletes" - is that Pat Fitzgerald over the past fifteen years has institutionalized possibly the greatest division I football team initiative to land football players internships. These relationships are now deep, easily marketable, and - for the first time - apparently fundable.

The market value payable to a Northwestern athlete could reasonably be higher than that for athletes at competitor schools. You might foresee arguments that the fair value for a Northwestern intern working at a Chicago firm exceeds the reasonable amount that should be paid to other students from most other Big Ten schools in smaller market cities. That checks a box for a student athlete looking to get paid, legitimately, in college. It is plausible that this could play out in a market context during recruitment, where at some point it might become allowable for a Northwestern recruiter to tell an athlete that they could make $50,000 per year while a student by interning at Aon or Booz Allen in downtown Chicago and then have a locked in contract upon graduating (perhaps as a fallback opportunity if the NFL doesn't work out). Such opportunities would be more of a stretch to argue for in East Lansing or Iowa City.

The NCAA rules preventing individual athletes from benefiting from their name, image and likeness on the other hand probably will not benefit Northwestern as much as Michigan or Ohio State, or even Nebraska (where Adrian Martinez's market value of selling Ford trucks on behalf of local dealerships is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and likely millions, despite Nebraska losing more games than it wins), though proximity to the Chicago market and Kellogg branding prowess will likely provide unique selling points to NU recruiters. A few savvy Kellogg professors working with the football team could probably leverage the ability to market "NIL" to actually develop and grow the brand of Northwestern football, in turn increasing the NIL value to future NU recruits.

It would be a good day for Northwestern if it can tell a recruit that he has a $50,000 internship locked in at Booz Allen (or another company founded by a Northwestern alum) and Michigan State can only offer a $10,000 multi-level marketing scheme/internship at AmWay. Today's Supreme Court ruling seems as though we might well be heading in that direction.
Im pretty sure the difference maker recruits are pretty much thinking about their profession, ie., football and the NFL. Even the 2 stars see themselves in the NFL. Hard to imagine Fitz telling a major ztud that he isnt good enough for the nfl but he can focus on booze allen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hdhntr1
Im pretty sure the difference maker recruits are pretty much thinking about their profession, ie., football and the NFL. Even the 2 stars see themselves in the NFL. Hard to imagine Fitz telling a major ztud that he isnt good enough for the nfl but he can focus on booze allen.
In the mean time, they cannot give XYZ while they are playing that dOSU can because they have an extra $100 million in their athletic department funds
 
In the mean time, they cannot give XYZ while they are playing that dOSU can because they have an extra $100 million in their athletic department funds
Yes. Osu will now offer the moon and maybe a few hot blondes to escort the lads around. I cant see Fitz saying "i aint got no money but you arent nfl material so I can get you an aon internship!"
Thats just dopey.
Plus most of the other bigten institutions have alot more academic resources and are solid degrees.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hdhntr1
Yes. Osu will now offer the moon and maybe a few hot blondes to escort the lads around. I cant see Fitz saying "i aint got no money but you arent nfl material so I can get you an aon internship!"
Thats just dopey.
Plus most of the other bigten institutions have alot more academic resources and are solid degrees.
Which NU players that OSU wants but can't pay for right now will NU lose?

Answer, none.
 
Which NU players that OSU wants but can't pay for right now will NU lose?

Answer, none.
We are talking going forward. Most here feel that we need more horses to compete against the likes of dOSU. Reality is that the real answer to your question is "Most anybody they want"
 
Which NU players that OSU wants but can't pay for right now will NU lose?

Answer, none.
Currently, practically all of our latest recruits could have visited OSU or a similar school and i think all of our recruits have major offers from traditional powers. Thanks to 2 division championships in 3 years. We only saw this high level of recruiting when we won 2 BTC in the 90s.
The NU degree is a constant that, by itself, produced awful recruiting. But things have swung again like it did with the "95 96' teams. Its called winning crowns.

Yes, I believe winning crowns is the #1 recruiting tool. Maybe 2nd is playing for a solid coach like Fitz. And third, stability of the coach.
4th is our NFL draft standing. We check off all of those now. Then probably the degree (this is only true for the 4 and 5 stars imo who are thinking 2 and done).
The icing on the cake is the NFL caliber assistant coaches. Sorry but i and the facebook wildcat crowd were saying that mccall and cushing were nice guys but horrible coaches that most smart players wouldnt want to play for, while gocatsgo and others on this board were damagecontrol peeps who would stand down and back Fitz' thinking. The FB wildcats and former players were right.
Moving forward, money talks. Osu has an incredible program, toss in deep pockets and my hunch is that most players are going to be opening up bank accounts while rejecting the idea "but we can get you an intern at aon."

hate to break the news but OSU wins that one too. They pump out more grads a year than NU has in its whole university. Thousands of successful grads in many huge companies.
However, money
 
How nice to be graced with the presence of the Facebook NU football group tonight. Did they ever get the gum out of the rubber machine coin slots over there?
 
Currently, practically all of our latest recruits could have visited OSU or a similar school and i think all of our recruits have major offers from traditional powers. Thanks to 2 division championships in 3 years. We only saw this high level of recruiting when we won 2 BTC in the 90s.
The NU degree is a constant that, by itself, produced awful recruiting. But things have swung again like it did with the "95 96' teams. Its called winning crowns.

Yes, I believe winning crowns is the #1 recruiting tool. Maybe 2nd is playing for a solid coach like Fitz. And third, stability of the coach.
4th is our NFL draft standing. We check off all of those now. Then probably the degree (this is only true for the 4 and 5 stars imo who are thinking 2 and done).
The icing on the cake is the NFL caliber assistant coaches. Sorry but i and the facebook wildcat crowd were saying that mccall and cushing were nice guys but horrible coaches that most smart players wouldnt want to play for, while gocatsgo and others on this board were damagecontrol peeps who would stand down and back Fitz' thinking. The FB wildcats and former players were right.
Moving forward, money talks. Osu has an incredible program, toss in deep pockets and my hunch is that most players are going to be opening up bank accounts while rejecting the idea "but we can get you an intern at aon."

hate to break the news but OSU wins that one too. They pump out more grads a year than NU has in its whole university. Thousands of successful grads in many huge companies.
However, money
Welcome back! Yes. Money.

Speaking of which: How are your real estate purchases faring on the coast of Florida, Turk?
 
I don't think anyone knows where this is all headed. The only thing certain is that the outcome will be far different than anyone's informed guess.
Players going to the highest bidder...yikes!
 
I don't think anyone knows where this is all headed. The only thing certain is that the outcome will be far different than anyone's informed guess.
I’m willing to make an uninformed guess: eventually, P5 college football ( now ostensibly an amateur sport ) will become a fully professional sport with many ”college” “student-athletes” being paid professionals.
 
I’m willing to make an uninformed guess: eventually, P5 college football ( now ostensibly an amateur sport ) will become a fully professional sport with many ”college” “student-athletes” being paid professionals.

Wonderful! I can go back and play on the extra-point return team and get that geology degree I want for free.
 
Wonderful! I can go back and play on the extra-point return team and get that geology degree I want for free.
Probably not too far fetched an idea. Unfortunately the goal posts have not been lowered.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT