Thoughts on a semi trainwreck

[GatoLouco]

In the end the way this game unfolded was not totally unexpected. The problem is the win against Providence gave us hope we could be decent sooner rather than later. Merrimack was truly atrocious. Radford should have been better, but seems, to me, like a far better opponent.

I'm still convinced Collins is a good coach for us. But I might change my mind later, I've been way more convinced. For simplification purposes, I see coaching at the college level as:

• 70% recruiting - A
• 20% practicing in a productive way (player development + choices on how to play) - C-
• 10% in game coaching - D

I never thought Collins excelled in X's and O's, or developing players. I think we got a bit fooled by having a savvy point guard in BMac, who made it seem our offense was fine.

Still not convinced we can, realistically, attract better coaching for recruiting. So I remain on thinking Collins is a good option for us.

Positives:

• Nance. Don't even care what the stat sheet says. The kid was pissed off. Was trying to make it happen. That's what we want with that skill set. Against Providence I found myself often wondering how was it possible he was not getting more touches. We can blame him for not being assertive, treat the ball like a hot potato, etc. But I feel, by now, a big share of the blame is on coaching.
  
• Kopp. For me demonstrated that, if a coach knows how to use him, he can be a heck of a player. He's atrocious putting the ball on the floor facing forward. Dribble is too high, has trouble playing low with knees bent. But has some serious skills as a spot up shooter and can be super efficient using his butt to protect his dribble en route to a short range jumper
• Spencer. Just because I admire the heck out of that man. Heart, fierceness. Nothing sort of astonishing these are the first games he ever played in college
• Beran, Jones, Young. They have the tools to develop into great players

Negatives

• The 1-3-1 zone. It was not great against Providence. They happened to miss a ton of shots and a lot of easy baskets. Young covers no one in the back of the zone. 90% of the time the kid is taking up space, not limiting the actions of anyone. A 1-3-1 zone is a good option to try to surprise or for a team who is very small and mobile. We should have dropped it 1/2 way into the 1st half. Instead we dropped coming out of a timeout, down by 21
  
• The lack of attitude. No excuse for that
• The 4 minute substitutions when we are up 12-4
• The overall offense. Our sets should be to give Nance and Kopp quality touches where and how they can be impactful.

We'll have more games like Providence. Maybe 3-5. Hard to imagine more than that. We have some talent. And it's fun to see our guys develop. Just a bit frustrating to feel like we could be doing a much better job managing the roster and the in game execution.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

In the end the way this game unfolded was not totally unexpected. The problem is the win against Providence gave us hope we could be decent sooner rather than later. Merrimack was truly atrocious. Radford should have been better, but seems, to me, like a far better opponent.

I'm still convinced Collins is a good coach for us. But I might change my mind later, I've been way more convinced. For simplification purposes, I see coaching at the college level as:

• 70% recruiting - A
• 20% practicing in a productive way (player development + choices on how to play) - C-
• 10% in game coaching - D

I never thought Collins excelled in X's and O's, or developing players. I think we got a bit fooled by having a savvy point guard in BMac, who made it seem our offense was fine.

Still not convinced we can, realistically, attract better coaching for recruiting. So I remain on thinking Collins is a good option for us.

Positives:

• Nance. Don't even care what the stat sheet says. The kid was pissed off. Was trying to make it happen. That's what we want with that skill set. Against Providence I found myself often wondering how was it possible he was not getting more touches. We can blame him for not being assertive, treat the ball like a hot potato, etc. But I feel, by now, a big share of the blame is on coaching.
  
• Kopp. For me demonstrated that, if a coach knows how to use him, he can be a heck of a player. He's atrocious putting the ball on the floor facing forward. Dribble is too high, has trouble playing low with knees bent. But has some serious skills as a spot up shooter and can be super efficient using his butt to protect his dribble en route to a short range jumper
• Spencer. Just because I admire the heck out of that man. Heart, fierceness. Nothing sort of astonishing these are the first games he ever played in college
• Beran, Jones, Young. They have the tools to develop into great players

Negatives

• The 1-3-1 zone. It was not great against Providence. They happened to miss a ton of shots and a lot of easy baskets. Young covers no one in the back of the zone. 90% of the time the kid is taking up space, not limiting the actions of anyone. A 1-3-1 zone is a good option to try to surprise or for a team who is very small and mobile. We should have dropped it 1/2 way into the 1st half. Instead we dropped coming out of a timeout, down by 21
  
• The lack of attitude. No excuse for that
• The 4 minute substitutions when we are up 12-4
• The overall offense. Our sets should be to give Nance and Kopp quality touches where and how they can be impactful.

We'll have more games like Providence. Maybe 3-5. Hard to imagine more than that. We have some talent. And it's fun to see our guys develop. Just a bit frustrating to feel like we could be doing a much better job managing the roster and the in game execution.

On the negatives, I might add the Gaines and especially Turner can start the season anytime now.

 

[clarificationcat]

You are far more reasonable and kind than I can be after attending that awful, awful game.

My take is that Nance and Beran are the only players on the roster that currently project to be good B1G players. Beran needs to get 25 to 30 minutes a game. I would give him some of Young's minutes. While I am sure he will get better, Young is too limited athletically to ever be more than a role player. Watching shorter and smaller guys grab rebounds over him and block his shots is physically painful for me. It brings back so many bad memories over the past 30 plus years. I have no idea if Jones and Buie will develop into good players but they need to get as many opportunities as possible.

Now that Law and Pardon are gone, this is the first team that I can remember (I am sure that Carmody and O'Neil had a couple) that does not have a good B1G player currently on the roster. Someone that would start on almost every other team. Very sad.

Finally, if you are less athletic than almost every team you play, you cannot be a poor 3-point shooting team. Shame on Collins and his staff for not recruiting more shooters. It's truly inexcusable in today's game. We consistently pass up open 3-point shots to drive in the lane to force bad shots.

 

[IdahoAlum]

I suspect the Chris Collins era will grind inexorably to a halt over a two-season period. Other than signing some players who appear to be good prospects over the past few years, there is really no indication this program is going to get better anytime soon. Player development and in-game coaching are awful. If NU keeps losing to no-name programs, the stands will be empty — except when Big Ten rivals fill the place up. There will be no home court advantage. Phillips will be very slow to pull the trigger — and probably rightly so — but I think ultimately he will have no choice.

 

[Max_Power]

I suspect the Chris Collins era will grind inexorably to a halt over a two-season period. Other than signing some players who appear to be good prospects over the past few years, there is really no indication this program is going to get better anytime soon. Player development and in-game coaching are awful. If NU keeps losing to no-name programs, the stands will be empty — except when Big Ten rivals fill the place up. There will be no home court advantage. Phillips will be very slow to pull the trigger — and probably rightly so — but I think ultimately he will have no choice.

 

[PurpleFaze]

I have serious doubts about the coaching ability of Collins. Not seeing it. We have enough talent that we shouldn’t be losing at home to Merrimack and Radford. Let alone be losing by 20+ during stages of tonight’s game.

Radford executed their offense 10x better than we did. (I’m not talking making shots, I’m speaking of the strategy). To be honest I’m not even sure half the time what we are trying to do on offense- surely the plan isn’t to have Koop try turnaround jumpers, have nance jack up 3’s, and everybody else to mainly stand around?

Do we ever make any adjustments?

We have way too much size to be getting dominated on the boards.

We really need a hard nosed team leader. Our guys seem to be pillsbury doughboy soft.

The biggest disappointment to me was we were down 14?at half and then the staff inspired the guys to come out and go down further. Seriously? Gaines and turner look disinterested at best.

Our first shot of the second half? Of course a 3 from nance....

 

[CatManTrue]

I have serious doubts about the coaching ability of Collins. Not seeing it. We have enough talent that we shouldn’t be losing at home to Merrimack and Radford. Let alone be losing by 20+ during stages of tonight’s game.

Radford executed their offense 10x better than we did. (I’m not talking making shots, I’m speaking of the strategy). To be honest I’m not even sure half the time what we are trying to do on offense- surely the plan isn’t to have Koop try turnaround jumpers, have nance jack up 3’s, and everybody else to mainly stand around?

Do we ever make any adjustments?

We have way too much size to be getting dominated on the boards.

We really need a hard nosed team leader. Our guys seem to be pillsbury doughboy soft.

The biggest disappointment to me was we were down 14?at half and then the staff inspired the guys to come out and go down further. Seriously? Gaines and turner look disinterested at best.

Our first shot of the second half? Of course a 3 from nance....

I’m really glad that I didn’t tune into this one.

 

[FeralFelidae]

I’m really glad that I didn’t tune into this one.

I switched over to the UTEP game and I wasn't disappointed. Game-winning shot from Lathon!

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

We stinks!

 

[Medill90]

I guess what jumped out to me is that the players don't seem to have any feel for one another.

I don't understand why AJ, who was such a major contributor, is invisible. When he's in, he seems to make plays.

I like Pat Spencer, three games in the challenge to him should be to make others better.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

Offense = Football/McCall

Young doesnt belong. We need to stop passing up wide open 3 pt shots.
Our players are afraid to miss shots and lack any semblance of confidence. They see Collins behind every bush screaming.

 

[clarificationcat]

Offense = Football/McCall

Young doesnt belong. We need to stop passing up wide open 3 pt shots.
Our players are afraid to miss shots and lack any semblance of confidence. They see Collins behind every bush screaming.

I have serious doubts about the coaching ability of Collins. Not seeing it. We have enough talent that we shouldn’t be losing at home to Merrimack and Radford. Let alone be losing by 20+ during stages of tonight’s game.

Radford executed their offense 10x better than we did. (I’m not talking making shots, I’m speaking of the strategy). To be honest I’m not even sure half the time what we are trying to do on offense- surely the plan isn’t to have Koop try turnaround jumpers, have nance jack up 3’s, and everybody else to mainly stand around?

Do we ever make any adjustments?

We have way too much size to be getting dominated on the boards.

We really need a hard nosed team leader. Our guys seem to be pillsbury doughboy soft.

The biggest disappointment to me was we were down 14?at half and then the staff inspired the guys to come out and go down further. Seriously? Gaines and turner look disinterested at best.

Our first shot of the second half? Of course a 3 from nance....

We don't have a single player that can consistently break down a defense and create scoring opportunities. Not one. We have one player (Kopp) that gets significant minutes that is comfortable taking 3-point shots and he has not been very good at it. We are tall but have difficultly finishing around the basket and don't get many offensive rebounds. It's not a recipe for offensive success no matter what plays you call. Ultimately, basketball is about taking advantage of mismatches. We had to go to a zone not because teams were running really clever plays but because we couldn't guard one-on-one. We need players that can take advantage of mismatches and create opportunities for themselves and their teammates. It is impossible to score consistently without such players unless you have a bunch of great 3-point shooters. We have none. Collins has done a terrible job of assembling this team. And I am not sure why Turner went from being our primary ballhandler to a guy that gets spotty minutes. He actually kept us in a few games last year. I love Spencer but he is not quick enough to be a starting point guard. He should be coming off the bench and bringing energy.

I have raised this issue before. Collins spent almost his whole career recruiting and coaching the best basketball players in the country. Does he know how to evaluate and develop guys that are not the best? It's a real concern for me. What is the identity of the team under Collins? It seems like there is no long term plan or framework for recruiting.

And I agree with others that the team looks scared and played without energy for most of the game. That is definitely on the coaches.

 

[hdhntr1]

In the end the way this game unfolded was not totally unexpected. The problem is the win against Providence gave us hope we could be decent sooner rather than later. Merrimack was truly atrocious. Radford should have been better, but seems, to me, like a far better opponent.

I'm still convinced Collins is a good coach for us. But I might change my mind later, I've been way more convinced. For simplification purposes, I see coaching at the college level as:

• 70% recruiting - A
• 20% practicing in a productive way (player development + choices on how to play) - C-
• 10% in game coaching - D

I never thought Collins excelled in X's and O's, or developing players. I think we got a bit fooled by having a savvy point guard in BMac, who made it seem our offense was fine.

Still not convinced we can, realistically, attract better coaching for recruiting. So I remain on thinking Collins is a good option for us.

Positives:

• Nance. Don't even care what the stat sheet says. The kid was pissed off. Was trying to make it happen. That's what we want with that skill set. Against Providence I found myself often wondering how was it possible he was not getting more touches. We can blame him for not being assertive, treat the ball like a hot potato, etc. But I feel, by now, a big share of the blame is on coaching.
  
• Kopp. For me demonstrated that, if a coach knows how to use him, he can be a heck of a player. He's atrocious putting the ball on the floor facing forward. Dribble is too high, has trouble playing low with knees bent. But has some serious skills as a spot up shooter and can be super efficient using his butt to protect his dribble en route to a short range jumper
• Spencer. Just because I admire the heck out of that man. Heart, fierceness. Nothing sort of astonishing these are the first games he ever played in college
• Beran, Jones, Young. They have the tools to develop into great players

Negatives

• The 1-3-1 zone. It was not great against Providence. They happened to miss a ton of shots and a lot of easy baskets. Young covers no one in the back of the zone. 90% of the time the kid is taking up space, not limiting the actions of anyone. A 1-3-1 zone is a good option to try to surprise or for a team who is very small and mobile. We should have dropped it 1/2 way into the 1st half. Instead we dropped coming out of a timeout, down by 21
  
• The lack of attitude. No excuse for that
• The 4 minute substitutions when we are up 12-4
• The overall offense. Our sets should be to give Nance and Kopp quality touches where and how they can be impactful.

We'll have more games like Providence. Maybe 3-5. Hard to imagine more than that. We have some talent. And it's fun to see our guys develop. Just a bit frustrating to feel like we could be doing a much better job managing the roster and the in game execution.

How much of the lack of offense is the loss of a couple of the assistant coaches such as Baldwin?

 

[GatoLouco]

How much of the lack of offense is the loss of a couple of the assistant coaches such as Baldwin?

I don't have an answer for that. Folks in here closer to the program might have some insight into that.

But, even in our glorious tournament year, I never felt we were fluid on offense. I always felt BMac disguised a lot of our problems on offense.

 

[NJCat]

Semi train wreck.......

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Offense = Football/McCall

Young doesnt belong. We need to stop passing up wide open 3 pt shots.
Our players are afraid to miss shots and lack any semblance of confidence. They see Collins behind every bush screaming.

its interesting you say that. i actually think in this first 3 games its the most subdued i have seen Collins since he got to NU.

 

[lunker35]

its interesting you say that. i actually think in this first 3 games its the most subdued i have seen Collins since he got to NU.

Agreed. It’s like his fire has burnt out. There were a few times he could have gone off last night on some questionable calls and he just gave a Carmody shrug and moved on.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Agreed. It’s like his fire has burnt out. There were a few times he could have gone off last night on some questionable calls and he just gave a Carmody shrug and moved on.

Unfortunately, a few players are more subdued than they have ever been.

 

[IGNORE]

Well, I’m sure as I’m clearly just an alarmist, no concerns that anybody transfers out.

 

[NJCat]

Agreed. It’s like his fire has burnt out. There were a few times he could have gone off last night on some questionable calls and he just gave a Carmody shrug and moved on.

When you're down 21 at home to Big South team and shooting 3 for 20 from 3, a few questionable calls ain't the reason you're losing.

 

[Medill90]

Agreed. It’s like his fire has burnt out. There were a few times he could have gone off last night on some questionable calls and he just gave a Carmody shrug and moved on.

Noticed the same thing.

Hope is that he's learned a couple things from experience. He turned off Taylor last season, that was visibly evident. Benson, and to a lesser degree Falzon, chose to walk. He may have gotten some coaching from his assistants that he needs to tamp it down some with his players.

And, this roster is by comparison one of the youngest, most inexperienced he has. Losing his crap and pulling guys really doesn't work when you can't replace them with a good alternative.

Maybe he read some Ram Dass over the summer and trying to experience "the quieter you become, the more you hear."

 

[GatoLouco]

Maybe he just found his inner Brad Stevens

 

[NJCat]

Noticed the same thing.

Hope is that he's learned a couple things from experience. He turned off Taylor last season, that was visibly evident. Benson, and to a lesser degree Falzon, chose to walk. He may have gotten some coaching from his assistants that he needs to tamp it down some with his players.

And, this roster is by comparison one of the youngest, most inexperienced he has. Losing his crap and pulling guys really doesn't work when you can't replace them with a good alternative.

Maybe he read some Ram Dass over the summer and trying to experience "the quieter you become, the more you hear."

Disagree on this. At his post-game presser he said a game like Tuesday didn't call for (paraphrasing) screaming at the team in the locker room......he is preaching patience given how young the team is. Which is exactly what they need. He keeps making the point that he has 5 guys who have 3 games of college experience, and that 2 others played limited time in their first season. It's almost as if he's trying to remind himself this will be a LONG losing season, but he has to stay positive and hope they get better through the course of the year. Being an infantile asswipe on the bench isn't going to change the outcome of any game with this team, so I think he's smart to turn down the intensity meter a bit from what he is normally like.

 

[CappyNU]

Hopefully he's also learned from his father, given that Doug was notorious for wearing out his welcome at every coaching stop he had in his career.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

I don't have an answer for that. Folks in here closer to the program might have some insight into that.

But, even in our glorious tournament year, I never felt we were fluid on offense. I always felt BMac disguised a lot of our problems on offense.

if BMac was all-B1G and disguised a lot of our problems. do the power house coaches in the league who have 2-3 all-B1G players get all their problems disguised too? you could argue yes

 

[GatoLouco]

if BMac was all-B1G and disguised a lot of our problems. do the power house coaches in the league who have 2-3 all-B1G players get all their problems disguised too? you could argue yes

Good players always disguise problems. That's safe to say

 

[clarificationcat]

if BMac was all-B1G and disguised a lot of our problems. do the power house coaches in the league who have 2-3 all-B1G players get all their problems disguised too? you could argue yes

Yes. The truly great coaches run great offenses when they have no outside shooting, no players that can penetrate and score and no offensive rebounders. Everyone else is just cheating.