Three point attempts

[purplebirder]

Only three teams in the Big Ten attempt more 3 point shots per game than Northwestern. Last night's poor percentage from that range magnifies this issue. Is this reliance on 3 pointers due to lack of talent preventing more high percentage shots or should Coach Collins be coaching the team to rely less on 3 pointers ?

BTW excuse my ignorance but I rarely am able to watch Cats games in Tucson. Perhaps also my question is prompted by the fact that I have never been a big fan of 3 pointers .

 

[Deeringfish]

Perhaps also my question is prompted by the fact that I have never been a big fan of 3 pointers .

Confession is good for the soul and also a fair and meaningful discussion.

 

[clarificationcat]

Only three teams in the Big Ten attempt more 3 point shots per game than Northwestern. Last night's poor percentage from that range magnifies this issue. Is this reliance on 3 pointers due to lack of talent preventing more high percentage shots or should Coach Collins be coaching the team to rely less on 3 pointers ?

BTW excuse my ignorance but I rarely am able to watch Cats games in Tucson. Perhaps also my question is prompted by the fact that I have never been a big fan of 3 pointers .

You may not be a fan (I am not either) but that train left the station a long time ago. Do you think Golden State lacks talent or Kerr should be coaching them to rely less on 3 pointers? The Bulls are built around high percentage two point shooters and they are destined for mediocrity or worse.

There are days when they are not going to fall like last night and I thought the team did a good job of finding other ways to score. We definitely can use more guys that can drive and create fouls but I don't think shooting a lot of 3-pointers is a bad thing at all. The team is shooting 36% from 3-point range, which is like shooting 54% from two-point range.

 

[nuwildfan2]

Metrics claim that 3 point shots are better shot option then any shot other then an uncontested layup or dunk.

 

[nuwildfan2]

"You see those top three teams. Golden State — do they work it [inside]? My brother in Houston, the biggest turnaround in the league — do they work it in? You can go get any computer and run what the best shots are and it will tell you the post-up is the worst shot in basketball. If you want to run down and try to get it [in the paint] to shoot over somebody, then you're beating analytics. The best shot in basketball is that corner three. The next-best shot in basketball is any other three. Other than free throws, which we try to do, when you get to the foul line, you score 1.5 points every time you go to the foul line in the pros. It just trickles down. It's the same thing for college kids..."

When a reporter began to ask a question, D'Antoni cut him off, saying, "I haven't finished my damn analytics story yet." He continued:

"If you can get a layup and it's clean — it's not one that's highly contested — it's [worth] 1.8 points [per attempt]. It's 1.3 from that corner, 1.27. Do you know what a post-up is, with a guy standing over top of you? It's 0.78. So you run your team down there and we'll see how long you can stay with teams that can play the other way. You've seen it in the NBA. The last two championships have been Cleveland and Golden State. What do they do? You don't see anybody post up. They just spread that thing out and go."

D'Antoni said he changed his coaching philosophy years ago, saying he used to coach like a "dummy" by trying to force post-ups.


http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-dantoni-why-3-pointers-are-best-shots-in-basketball-2016-12

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

Only three teams in the Big Ten attempt more 3 point shots per game than Northwestern. Last night's poor percentage from that range magnifies this issue. Is this reliance on 3 pointers due to lack of talent preventing more high percentage shots or should Coach Collins be coaching the team to rely less on 3 pointers ?

BTW excuse my ignorance but I rarely am able to watch Cats games in Tucson. Perhaps also my question is prompted by the fact that I have never been a big fan of 3 pointers .

I actually had this exact same thought, when you rely so heavily on the 3 it's high risk, high reward - you can beat almost anyone but go cold and you're screwed. I think I looked it up on the NCAA site and to my surprise NU ranked 78th in the country in 3 attempts per game with 17 per game - Michigan, Indiana, Iowa and Purdue were all higher but right in the 17-19 range - and those teams too all suffer the same fate of being streaky.

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

"You see those top three teams. Golden State — do they work it [inside]? My brother in Houston, the biggest turnaround in the league — do they work it in? You can go get any computer and run what the best shots are and it will tell you the post-up is the worst shot in basketball. If you want to run down and try to get it [in the paint] to shoot over somebody, then you're beating analytics. The best shot in basketball is that corner three. The next-best shot in basketball is any other three. Other than free throws, which we try to do, when you get to the foul line, you score 1.5 points every time you go to the foul line in the pros. It just trickles down. It's the same thing for college kids..."

When a reporter began to ask a question, D'Antoni cut him off, saying, "I haven't finished my damn analytics story yet." He continued:

"If you can get a layup and it's clean — it's not one that's highly contested — it's [worth] 1.8 points [per attempt]. It's 1.3 from that corner, 1.27. Do you know what a post-up is, with a guy standing over top of you? It's 0.78. So you run your team down there and we'll see how long you can stay with teams that can play the other way. You've seen it in the NBA. The last two championships have been Cleveland and Golden State. What do they do? You don't see anybody post up. They just spread that thing out and go."

D'Antoni said he changed his coaching philosophy years ago, saying he used to coach like a "dummy" by trying to force post-ups.


http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-dantoni-why-3-pointers-are-best-shots-in-basketball-2016-12

Very interesting, thanks for posting

 

[NU Houston]

"You see those top three teams. Golden State — do they work it [inside]? My brother in Houston, the biggest turnaround in the league — do they work it in? You can go get any computer and run what the best shots are and it will tell you the post-up is the worst shot in basketball. If you want to run down and try to get it [in the paint] to shoot over somebody, then you're beating analytics. The best shot in basketball is that corner three. The next-best shot in basketball is any other three. Other than free throws, which we try to do, when you get to the foul line, you score 1.5 points every time you go to the foul line in the pros. It just trickles down. It's the same thing for college kids..."

When a reporter began to ask a question, D'Antoni cut him off, saying, "I haven't finished my damn analytics story yet." He continued:

"If you can get a layup and it's clean — it's not one that's highly contested — it's [worth] 1.8 points [per attempt]. It's 1.3 from that corner, 1.27. Do you know what a post-up is, with a guy standing over top of you? It's 0.78. So you run your team down there and we'll see how long you can stay with teams that can play the other way. You've seen it in the NBA. The last two championships have been Cleveland and Golden State. What do they do? You don't see anybody post up. They just spread that thing out and go."

D'Antoni said he changed his coaching philosophy years ago, saying he used to coach like a "dummy" by trying to force post-ups.


http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-dantoni-why-3-pointers-are-best-shots-in-basketball-2016-12

Great quotes. I've also heard Daryl Morey, the Rockets' GM (and NU alum) talk about the value of three pointers. He's a big proponent of taking threes, hence the Rockets record setting number of such shots this season.

With Northwestern, I'd speculate that having a strong post player (e.g. Pardon) helps keep defenses honest. If he can draw a double team, or at least bring more attention to the paint, then that opens up the kickout to a shooter on the perimeter. Likewise, being able to run effective pick and rolls off the high post forces the defense to play closer to the basket, opening up better looks from outside.

 

[purplebirder]

Thanks for the 3 point education ! I look forward to watching NU in the NCAA tournament .

 

[NUCat320]

I really enjoyed this article about this year's Houston Rockets.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theringer.com/amp/p/8f5ccb6c6302?client=safari

 

[CommodoresAndCats]

Our teams best asset is our shooting. Multiple plus shooters are on the team and our offense is based on ball reversals and drive and kicks. Collins has structured the offense to generate open 3 pointers. The difference in some games like Minny and 1st half of Rutgers is that we were taking 3 pointers because we were forced into them late in the shot clock, not because they were good open shots.

 

[willycat]

Our teams best asset is our shooting. Multiple plus shooters are on the team and our offense is based on ball reversals and drive and kicks. Collins has structured the offense to generate open 3 pointers. The difference in some games like Minny and 1st half of Rutgers is that we were taking 3 pointers because we were forced into them late in the shot clock, not because they were good open shots.

Think a lot of the last second 3 point attempts is because N doesn't look for shots early in a procession. They seem to pass the ball around the perimeter for 10 or 15 seconds before actually running a play. remember this same type of inaction when KO was in charge.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Our teams best asset is our shooting. Multiple plus shooters are on the team and our offense is based on ball reversals and drive and kicks. Collins has structured the offense to generate open 3 pointers. The difference in some games like Minny and 1st half of Rutgers is that we were taking 3 pointers because we were forced into them late in the shot clock, not because they were good open shots.

There were open looks in the 2nd half against Minnesota, but the Gophers made sure they were Skelly's. He can hit them, but he didn't that night. Of the guys on the floor to leave open, the Gophers made the right choice.

 

[Walker Fan]

I think this NU team has the capability of becoming less reliant on three point shooting as Pardon gets more involved in the offense. In the few games since he has been back he is averaging 10 ppg, 8 rpg and 3 + bpg. So those statistics will change a little as his stats take more of an effect on our total team scoring. Also, opposing team's scouting reports will be guard NU tighter around the perimeter. The NU response to that is that will allow our talented wing players in Law and Lindsey to pump fake and drive around the defender for an uncontested 2 point shot or take it to the whole or drive and get fouled. Another reason our three point shooting is skewed is that on offense when Lumpkin is on the floor for his 20 plus minutes, he is a non-factor. Most teams have a PF or 4 position player who can post and get a couple of baskets near the hoop. Lumpkin's offensive deficiencies are highlighted in Big 10 play (multiple goose eggs or 0 points in Big 10 games) because the players are bigger and more athletic than in non-conference and they make it harder for a 6'5"-6'6" player to score when he is planted near the hoop. However, we need Lumpkin because of his defense and rebounding, but Skelly is assuming more of his role and Tap takes some of his minutes too when he is in foul trouble which has been in all recent games.

The Iowa team has a number of 6'5"-6'8" players and Lumpkin needs to clamp down on their offensive players (maybe on Jok). We need Law and Lindsey to stay out of foul trouble. We don't want the game to get into a total track meet. It will be a great game to watch on Sunday. They have some talented frosh in Bohannen and Cook (6'9", 253 lbs.) and Ahmed Wagner (no. 0) who will try to take it to the hole like Rutgers did in the first half. Collins needs to keep using his bench in particular talented frosh like Brown and Benson to match up with a deep Iowa squad. I am looking forward to it.

Lindsey always gets up for playing Iowa as they yanked his scholarship. I think he is much much better off at NU than the farmland of Iowa City particularly for his future success.

Lastly, the other funny issue as a fan will be to watch if Fran McCaffery's head implodes on the sideline. Could be a very likely scenario. Our student section should be all over him and rip him for his unsportsmanlike conduct in not shaking the N.Dakota State's players hands after the game.

 

[CommodoresAndCats]

Think a lot of the last second 3 point attempts is because N doesn't look for shots early in a procession. They seem to pass the ball around the perimeter for 10 or 15 seconds before actually running a play. remember this same type of inaction when KO was in charge.

It's not in action, they're setting up a play and reversing the ball. It doesn't look like much but it leads to open looks later in the set.