Tom Brady! Best of all time?
- Thread starter Titanium999
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I think his legend status is already confirmed. The Pack is certainly beatable. But this could be an epic showdown between two of the greatest QBs ever.
I certainly have a lot of respect for Tom Brady, but my rooting interests lean toward the Northwestern alums on that GB defense!
Some really close games in the playoffs. So surprised to see the Browns stay with the Chiefs. Henne's best day as a pro by a lot. Reed's call and the team's perfect execution on 4th and 1 to put the game away shows why he's coaching the SB Champs.
The next games will be even better. If Mahomes remains under concussion protocol, the Bills will win easily, but here's hoping he plays, because he's a big difference maker. I can not wait to watch GB - Tampa. Even though GB has a couple NU guys, I want to see Tampa and Brady take the next step.
The next games will be even better. If Mahomes remains under concussion protocol, the Bills will win easily, but here's hoping he plays, because he's a big difference maker. I can not wait to watch GB - Tampa. Even though GB has a couple NU guys, I want to see Tampa and Brady take the next step.
Super Bowls and wins should only be used in judging a franchise, coach, GM, or team but never a player in the NFL. Football is a team game you can’t elevate a team to those levels by yourself like you can in basketball or baseball for a game if you’re a starting pitcher. If you wanna call Brady the best ever based on his in game performances fine but don’t call it on rings or wins.
Brady had a top 10 defense 13 times since 2001. Had a future HOF TE in his prime. Randy Moss, Edelman, and arguably the best HC ever. Taking nothing away from Brady but that stuff sure makes it easier to get wins. How many rings would Marino have with that set up?
Brady had a top 10 defense 13 times since 2001. Had a future HOF TE in his prime. Randy Moss, Edelman, and arguably the best HC ever. Taking nothing away from Brady but that stuff sure makes it easier to get wins. How many rings would Marino have with that set up?
How about Sid Luckman, Johnny Unitas, Y.A. Title, Bart Starr, Sammy Baugh, Dan Marino, John Elway and of course Otto Graham!
The best I ever saw in no particular order.
1. Graham
2. Staubach
3. Moon
4. Montana
5. Marino
6. Cook
7. Brady
8. Brees
9. Elway
10. Mahommes
11. Manning, Peyton
12. McNair
13. Rodgers
14. Favre
15. Fouts
Only Cook and Mahommes don’t have the longevity factor. But the latter is too good too soon and has passed every test the game can throw at you. Many of you probably don’t know of Greg Cook. He was Marino, Elway and Brady all wrapped up into one ageless talent in the late 60s. But he was drafted by the Bengals and hurt early in his career. A bad combination for a QB with a best ever level of skills.
Bart Starr? OMG ... not even in the top 50.
GOUNUII
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Brady was a 4-5th round draft choice. Not the strongest arm, can’t run, but he wins you games. Ask his past teammates about whether he is the GOAT. Reads defenses better than any QB in history. As competitive as they comes. Raises his team up. The man is 43, I think youngsters forget how good he was in his prime. Threw for over 500 yards in a Super Bowl.
Would Gronk be Gronk without Brady? Edelman? Even Bill B? No, not a chance. He is putting people in the HOF.
I expect GB to beat TB this weekend, but if Brady is 33 instead of 43 they wouldn’t. Easily the GOAT, and I’ve seen those old timers on GO’s list except Otto and that guy named Cook and maybe one other . There is recency bias against TB12 because he isnt what he was a decade ago.
I see the point about a team game, but playing QB for the SB Champs is a rare, huge achievement and makes the rest of the resume weep for embarassment.
I’ve personally talked to one of Marino’s old teammates and he thinks Marino is the best ever. Teammates that aren’t bitter will think their HOF QB is the best.
Gronk is freak and changed the TE position. I could ask would Brady be Brady without Bill B. What I’m saying is Super Bowls aren’t a good argument. He’s one of the best because of other reasons not because of wins or Super Bowls.
I personally think it’s Marino or Rodgers but I understand arguments for others qb’s just the Súper bowl one is silly imo. I may be a youngster but I have respect and some knowledge on older players like Marino retired before I was in preschool.
Judging the greatest QB of all time is very subjective. The rules and game has changed over the years making it more of a passing game and protecting the QB. My vote for most skilled was Rodgers until Mahommes as they have as good of arms I have seen plus legs to make other things happen. I think rings mean something for a QB but nothing like I would judge a NBA player on them.
Very nicely and accurately put. Winning play-off games and championships is what it's all about, and nobody's done it better than Tom Brady - period!
He won the game against the Chiefs where he threw a pick that would have ended the game but Dee Ford was a hair offsides? He won the game where Pete Carrol didn't give the ball to the best RB in the game at the time on the goal line as time was about to expire? He won the game where he fumbled but it was called an incomplete pass? His work ethic, drive and competitiveness won those games?
Nope. No they didn't. He was a benefactor of luck breaking his way and people doing dumb things that he had no control over
Nope. No they didn't. He was a benefactor of luck breaking his way and people doing dumb things that he had no control over
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Ya I guess 20 years of luck, now following him to Tampa. Every QB needs some help and some good fortune and I'm among the first to acknowledge that some lucky breaks make a big difference. But what Brady is absolutely unbelievable and given the parity in football outside of him, I don't think anyone even approaches his run in the next 30 years.
You’re full of $hit my good friend. 😊 Brady is deserving of his accolades but the analysis goes far deeper than the Patriots’ success. More than a few on my above list would have equaled his rings if they had been given the same opportunity. Time, place and circumstances are huge factors in any QB’s won loss record.
GOUNUII
Missing: Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Kurt Warner, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Russell Wilson
Such language from, an officer of the court! Your speculation about what others might have done with the same opportunity is just that, speculation. Josh Gibson might have been the greatest home run hitter in the history of major league baseball, but we'll never know. So, speculate all you want, I'll take the guy who actually did it. (By the way, I'd put Otto Graham in second because of all of his championship victories. He was clearly the best of his era.)
I grew up a Patriots fan (am no longer). Had a Drew Bledsoe jersey, but that 2001 team was destined for 5-11. I remember those 90s-Early 2000s teams like it was yesterday. If Brady isn't the greatest ever, he is at least tied. Rankings like this are always ridiculous and subjective, but they make good discussion. I'll just say this - there's nobody better than Brady.
Attributing his success to Pete Carroll's decision not to hand the ball off or the tuck rule or a defensive player being offsides is ridiculous. Part of being a winning QB is being in those games in the first place with a chance to win. Do it enough (more than anybody else), and some breaks will go your way. But it's also just selective memory - quite a few breaks went the other way.
Attributing his success to Pete Carroll's decision not to hand the ball off or the tuck rule or a defensive player being offsides is ridiculous. Part of being a winning QB is being in those games in the first place with a chance to win. Do it enough (more than anybody else), and some breaks will go your way. But it's also just selective memory - quite a few breaks went the other way.
My buddy has been watching too much Bengal football. Who the Sam Hill is Greg Cook? I thought he slipped that name in to see if anyone was reading the entire post. I am nearly a Senior Citizen and don’t remember him because he wasn’t healthy enough to make an impression. Warren Moon was a fine player but not in the same league as TB. The others above him, not in my view. Not all that close either. NC, I think we gotta let this go.
Sorry but I dislike when they say of all time. Best of his era for sure but the situation is so much different from one era to another. MJ was best of his ERA. Lebron best of the current era but someone will be best of the next. The game changes so much. In the beginnings of NBA, there was no three point shot and the game was much more inside so centers were much more important. George Mikan was THE man back in his day. Russel, Chamberlan Alcindor (Jabbar). But then it changed to guards being the guy.
Philip Rivers follows Brees into retirement. Brady not far behind. Clock ticking on Rodgers. Big Ben's elbow may be shot. Stafford is getting up there and has had back issues. Russ Wilson is 32. Matt Ryan is 35.
We are looking at the end of an era of some great passers, no doubt.
The next generation--Jackson, Mahomes, Watson, Allen--are different types of players, but I am not sure they can compare to the cohort that is passing the torch.
We are looking at the end of an era of some great passers, no doubt.
The next generation--Jackson, Mahomes, Watson, Allen--are different types of players, but I am not sure they can compare to the cohort that is passing the torch.
Let's see if Lawrence can continue his success in the pro's. And I think Burrow and Murray will be really good. College quarterbacks are developing much more quickly than in the past. I don't know what that means for the NFL. It's hard to compare any of these guys, though, to the older quarterbacks since the game has changed so much and passing is so much more efficient. Aikman's career stats (165 touchdowns and 141 interceptions) don't look so great these days. In the prime of his career when Dallas was still pretty good he had a season where he threw 12 touchdown passes and 13 interceptions. In the middle of his career, Elway had a season where he threw 10 touchdowns and had 17 interceptions. Mitch Trubisky is shaking his head.
The game has changed SO much. These offenses seem to scheme so much more to get guys open and into space. When I was a kid, it seemed all you had was play action, and maybe a flea flicker.
At any one time there seem to be about 5 top tier elite QBs. Of course you don't really know if they are elite for 3-5 years. Since they have careers averaging almost 15 years, that means that they come along on average only about once every 3 years. Some class might have a couple but that means a lot of years .....
I am with MJ being best of his era. I am okay with Lebron being best of some of his era. But I am not in with Brady being clear best of his era. He had best winning resume but that takes a team. Would many say that Bradshaw was the best QB of the 70's...I for one would say Staubach was clearly better...but Terry was 4-0 in Super Bowls. Brady is an all time great that happened to be matched with an all time great coach and great teams. His over all skill set and stats do not put him as clear cut best QB of era.
14th conference championship this weekend. The luckiest guy on the face of the earth.
Amusing kid, please teach old man how to do this.
There is a reason that win/loss records only are counted individually for Pitchers in baseball, Goalies in hockey, and QB’s in football. You know why, because they influence the outcome way more than any other position in a team game.
Brady is the best there ever has been in this and the argument that he has been surrounded by great teams is the chicken and egg theory. The 4 Super Bowl MVP’s must have been because of his coaches or teammates! The 43 4th quarter comebacks must have been engineered by the power run game and being surrounded by HOF players. The man has played in more Conferences championships than all but 4 franchises.
“You play to win the game”. He wins and they win because of him more than any other player, end of story. So, spare me the post tomorrow after GB beats a 43 year old TB in 10 degree weather. He still will be the GOAT.
Yea but that best coach of all time he was lucky to be paired with is also in the conference championship game - just as he was before Brady, and just as he would have been with Drew Bledsoe.
To be clear, I'm not saying Belichick isn't an all time great. I'm just saying that if one of Brady or Belichick was lucky, it was Belichick.
A QB’s influence on the game is much less than a keeper or a pitcher. A pitcher or a keeper can stop the other team from scoring. A qb is 9% of the team less than half the time. Brady is a first ballot HOF. He’s one of the best. None of that’s because of his wins. People way overate that in FB. GB isn’t going against just Tom Brady they have a pretty darn good team. 3 pro bowl level WR (brown is out). Two pro bowl level TE. Leonard Fornette, Rondale Jones, and Lesean McCoy. Also they have the 6th best defense in the league.
Brady has had a top ten defense 13 times since 2001. Top 5 defense 8 times. Number one defense 3 times. He doesn’t control that. I’m not calling it luck. A top defense is more likely to get you to the playoffs and win championships than any single player. Football is a team sport. Trent Dilfer won a SB was he the best qb in the league that year? Was Bart Starr better than Unitas? What about Nick Foles? Team game.
Desmond Howard was a Super Bowl MVP. That award doesn’t matter. If winning is all that matters who’s the best NU qb ever?
I'm in total agreement with your post, but some will still disagree. In a sense, Brady is like the NY Yankees. Both win a lot, so some people love them and some hate them. And I love the statistical baloney. As Fitz often says, stats are for losers and it's wins that count, as you have very eloquently pointed out.
the clock is ticking on everyone. Rogers is about to win another MVP at 37 years old and has only gotten better in recent years. Dude is a machine. The true GOAT
Yep, luck just follows the guy around. Just amazing that he's had so many lucky wins, particularly as a 6th round draft choice. He's the guy I'd most like to follow around in Vegas. congrats to you, though, because your nonsense has graduated from irritating to amusing!
Dee Ford lined up offsides. Pete carrol didn’t give the ball to Marshawn Lynch on the goal line. Tuck rule.
he should be 3-6 in the super bowl but got lucky
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